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Cave Telescope Estimate of Worth

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#26 deSitter

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Posted 06 January 2018 - 02:13 PM

Well said!

 

-drl



#27 shooze

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Posted 06 January 2018 - 03:21 PM

As an example, years ago, I had an extremely rare electric bass appraised at Gruin Guitars: a fretless-from-the-factory Rickenbacker 4001. I will never forget the appraiser's clear, yet rudely flippant, explanation of why an ordinarily fretted rocker's bass is worth little when customized for jazz: "Hemophiliacs are rare, but I would not pay to be one." 

But..... if that bass was owned and played by an iconic jazz performer, Gruhn Guitars would have appraised it way higher in value - that's how it works, and I think they are all full of beans. They value these instruments far too low, especially when they are something they have never or rarely seen.  And I bet it's the same with telescopes.



#28 tim53

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Posted 07 January 2018 - 10:29 AM

 

After my first reply I've been thinking about this a lot more.  Us old farts may be the last generation to appreciate and own these scopes.  For two generations Dobs have ruled the large reflector market, and while I abhor Dobs generally, Jon posted a photo that requires no additional explanation.  The big reflectors are too big to haul around and while they can be adapted with Go-To and auto-guiding, for the costs involved, it's cheaper, easier, and lighter to just buy a modern mount.

 

I abhor Dobs, am not a fan of Go-To (but fully understand the need for them for modern AP), and I'm going to build an observatory, so these are in my wheelhouse.  No observatory and I'd be in a modern mount.

 

With the younger generations eschewing ownership, the market for these scopes will continue to shrink.  They likely will become primarily collector's items.

At last, a fellow traveler who (perhaps, no, certainly irrationally) abhors Dobs! All real telescopes are white and live on GEMs smile.gif

 

-drl

 

I quite agree.  I consider my original, unmolested store-bought newts as second only to the scopes I've built myself.  Many years ago, I contemplated building a 16-20" Springfield Cassegrain.  Several years ago, I found a large springfield head that had never been finished into a telescope.  It's large enough that I think it would support up to about an 18", and I may make one after I retire.  

 

One of the main reasons I haven't seriously considered selling the 12.5" Cave is that it is so original - including the drive (which works surprisingly well considering how rudimentary it is.  There can't be more than a handful like it still in existence.  And as us old farts shove dasies, I suspect that there will be even less to survive. This is a shame, as mine is already about 45 years old, and many of the observatory mounts are a decade older than that.  

 

But with illuminated 10" setting circles (and a driven RA), you don't need goto.  I may even experiment with AP using a camera on a guidescope or OAG to keep objects centered for long exposures.  I bet it will work.  My scope doesn't have a guidescope on it (it does have holes in the OTA for a small refractor, but none was included).  I think I might mount my 6" f10.3 Kludgescope on the rotating rings for a guidescope.  But not until after I retire.

 

-Tim.


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#29 John Higbee

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Posted 07 January 2018 - 11:49 AM

My answer to the question, "Why own a large Cave?"

  • Pleasure in getting a telescope that I had lusted after as a teenager mowing lawns in the '60s
  • The views I got from multiplying my light gathering power by a factor of 8 over my original scope ("where did all the stars come from?")
  • The sharpness of the views compared to my faithful C8 (and the C14 I eventually got)
  • The luxury of having a rotating tube (no more "midnight contortions")
  • Just standing and admiring it (yes, it's not a Unitron or a Questar, but it has a "heavy industrial" beauty all its own...just look at Dan's (Datapanic) restorations if you need proof!)

stacks_image_7341.jpg

  • and, not having to worry about the GD'd GoTo computer et.al. -- starhopping still works...

 

John
 


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#30 deSitter

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Posted 07 January 2018 - 12:08 PM

I much prefer star-hopping - and with a 60mm side scope at 30x you can do some very fine-grained hopping. My LXD650 has 4" circles which are more than adequate for accurate initial pointing. But those 10" Magnusson monsters are the bomb!

 

-drl


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#31 clamchip

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Posted 07 January 2018 - 12:14 PM

One of the funnest telescope projects I've tackled is my Star-Liner 12.5", its probably very similar

to a Cave 12.5" transportable.

I bought it as a basket case for $1000 and have reassembled most of it, I have the OTA to go yet

but its just a matter of cleaning the tube and assembling. 

Its on casters so you can effortlessly roll it around, and I'm hopping it will fit through my shop door

fully assembled so I can just roll it out and plug it in.

I'm looking forward to using it because in this jumbo class everything is really nice, rotating tube, the

equatorial head rotates in the top of the pedestal, electric drive, big ball bearings on both axis, slo-

motion controls, really nice large setting circles, its like crossing the Atlantic on the Queen Mary.

Robert 

 

IMG_8019.jpg

IMG_8020.jpg

IMG_8286.jpg


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#32 CHASLX200

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Posted 07 January 2018 - 12:32 PM

One of the funnest telescope projects I've tackled is my Star-Liner 12.5", its probably very similar

to a Cave 12.5" transportable.

I bought it as a basket case for $1000 and have reassembled most of it, I have the OTA to go yet

but its just a matter of cleaning the tube and assembling. 

Its on casters so you can effortlessly roll it around, and I'm hopping it will fit through my shop door

fully assembled so I can just roll it out and plug it in.

I'm looking forward to using it because in this jumbo class everything is really nice, rotating tube, the

equatorial head rotates in the top of the pedestal, electric drive, big ball bearings on both axis, slo-

motion controls, really nice large setting circles, its like crossing the Atlantic on the Queen Mary.

Robert 

 

attachicon.gifIMG_8019.jpg

attachicon.gifIMG_8020.jpg

attachicon.gifIMG_8286.jpg

The Starliner mounts were better. I had the 2" shaft version and liked it.



#33 Mr Magoo

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Posted 07 January 2018 - 12:37 PM

Absolutely love that Robert. I would not sell my 10" Meade RG for any offer. To me, it is everything a reflector should be. It doesn't leave my house because of the size and weight. The rotating rings make it an absolute joy to use.  I am building a cart for it to mount to so I can move it easier and make leveling better.

 

Prices have come down considerably on these big ones for sure. I agree with all of the prior assessments as to why. As time goes on and people become even more dependent on go to or DSC's, very few have the knowledge base to use the setting circles or star hop. I have seen the 12" models going for less than the 10" models I imagine due to their immense size. 

 

Ken


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#34 Bomber Bob

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Posted 07 January 2018 - 01:33 PM

Just standing and admiring it (yes, it's not a Unitron or a Questar, but it has a "heavy industrial" beauty all its own...

 

I agree 100% -- she's a REAL beauty!


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#35 jcruse64

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Posted 07 January 2018 - 02:35 PM

My answer to the question, "Why own a large Cave?"

  • Pleasure in getting a telescope that I had lusted after as a teenager mowing lawns in the '60s
  • The views I got from multiplying my light gathering power by a factor of 8 over my original scope ("where did all the stars come from?")
  • The sharpness of the views compared to my faithful C8 (and the C14 I eventually got)
  • The luxury of having a rotating tube (no more "midnight contortions")
  • Just standing and admiring it (yes, it's not a Unitron or a Questar, but it has a "heavy industrial" beauty all its own...just look at Dan's (Datapanic) restorations if you need proof!)

attachicon.gifstacks_image_7341.jpg

  • and, not having to worry about the GD'd GoTo computer et.al. -- starhopping still works...

 

John
 

Magnificent Beast!!!!!!

 

Very cool!


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#36 Mikefp

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Posted 07 January 2018 - 09:54 PM

I paid $1000 for mine and had to rebuild. Mount was effort to have it tight and work correctly. Now have about $1500 (?) invested. Great scope as well as workout for the right person! These large old school scopes are crowd catchers.


DSC01016resized.jpg
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#37 Joe Cepleur

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Posted 07 January 2018 - 10:16 PM

One more thing:

When you get beyond the weight...

and the sheer size...

and the hassle of moving it...

It's all so simple; not much to align, or to go wrong...

Grind the perfect mirror; install the right secondary...

collimate her perfectly (easy with a Newt!)...

There ya go! Best view you ever saw in the eyepiece! Beats your best SCT, along with any refractor you could afford! That's why we all love these beasts, despite their inherent difficulties. Besides, when the Newts get this big, one can install masks to convert them into long-focus, off-axis Newts that will match all those refractors you could never afford. Not bad at all for anyone who can move and store such a scope happily, whether on wheels or under a dome.

To have one is the opportunity of a lifetime.
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#38 deSitter

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Posted 07 January 2018 - 10:28 PM

One of the funnest telescope projects I've tackled is my Star-Liner 12.5", its probably very similar

to a Cave 12.5" transportable.

I bought it as a basket case for $1000 and have reassembled most of it, I have the OTA to go yet

but its just a matter of cleaning the tube and assembling. 

Its on casters so you can effortlessly roll it around, and I'm hopping it will fit through my shop door

fully assembled so I can just roll it out and plug it in.

I'm looking forward to using it because in this jumbo class everything is really nice, rotating tube, the

equatorial head rotates in the top of the pedestal, electric drive, big ball bearings on both axis, slo-

motion controls, really nice large setting circles, its like crossing the Atlantic on the Queen Mary.

Robert 

 

attachicon.gifIMG_8019.jpg

attachicon.gifIMG_8020.jpg

attachicon.gifIMG_8286.jpg

OC scopes had that Japanese look of simple complexity! Or complex simplicity!

 

-drl



#39 rolo

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Posted 08 January 2018 - 07:50 AM

Quite possibly my favorite scope ever. For 11 years I wouldn't even consider owning anything else! Very easy to roll in and out of the garage for hours of unforgettable views. Stunning views of Jupiter, Saturn & Mars.Prices have gone down considerably on these big scopes so if you have a way of rolling one in and out for viewing, it could be an excellent bang for the buck.

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#40 starman876

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Posted 08 January 2018 - 09:01 AM

Quite possibly my favorite scope ever. For 11 years I wouldn't even consider owning anything else! Very easy to roll in and out of the garage for hours of unforgettable views. Stunning views of Jupiter, Saturn & Mars.Prices have gone down considerably on these big scopes so if you have a way of rolling one in and out for viewing, it could be an excellent bang for the buck.

Those views would be worth pouring a concrete pad to roll it out on and building a small shed to store the scope.  waytogo.gif


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#41 Terra Nova

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Posted 08 January 2018 - 09:13 AM

 

Quite possibly my favorite scope ever. For 11 years I wouldn't even consider owning anything else! Very easy to roll in and out of the garage for hours of unforgettable views. Stunning views of Jupiter, Saturn & Mars.Prices have gone down considerably on these big scopes so if you have a way of rolling one in and out for viewing, it could be an excellent bang for the buck.

Those views would be worth pouring a concrete pad to roll it out on and building a small shed to store the scope.  waytogo.gif

 

They are beautiful, but completely impractical for me :( . Anything I have, I have to be able to carry and has to be able to negotiate doorways and steps. An observatory or a slap and shed would be essential.



#42 Joe Cepleur

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Posted 08 January 2018 - 12:02 PM

For a bit more effort than pouring a slab and building a storage shed, build a roll-off roof observatory. Then, the scope will always be aligned and ready for use. Easier than toting a 60mm short tube outside!
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#43 Bonco2

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Posted 08 January 2018 - 03:23 PM

Oh how I wish I still had my 10 inch Custom Deluxe. It's out there somewhere with a lucky owner.

bill



#44 Apothegary

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Posted 08 January 2018 - 06:47 PM

Ah, I remember pouring through Cave catalog seeing the 10 inch Custom Deluxe. I wanted the largest aperture I could get but still be able to handle. That’s why I went with the 12.5 inch f5, for length of tube.

 

I remember waiting seemingly forever for delivery. It took so long that I began to think that maybe I had been scammed and lost my money. Then one day I got word of the impending delivery and an 18 wheeler pulled up to the house with huge packing crates.

 

Must admit, this scope was a gift and I have an emotional attachment to it. Listening to others of like mind you’ve got me thinking again about how to put this baby back in service.

 

May need others help on some refurbishment.


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#45 CHASLX200

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Posted 08 January 2018 - 07:00 PM

Quite possibly my favorite scope ever. For 11 years I wouldn't even consider owning anything else! Very easy to roll in and out of the garage for hours of unforgettable views. Stunning views of Jupiter, Saturn & Mars.Prices have gone down considerably on these big scopes so if you have a way of rolling one in and out for viewing, it could be an excellent bang for the buck.

I would have loved to have kept it when i had it. But had no way to roll it around at my house.



#46 tim53

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Posted 08 January 2018 - 09:44 PM

I still like looking AT mine.

 

post-6788-14074320446732_thumb.jpg


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#47 Geo31

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Posted 08 January 2018 - 09:47 PM

I still like looking AT mine.

 

post-6788-14074320446732_thumb.jpg

You know, what I find really amazing is that scope can look so "normal" in size.  When you see one in person, it's utterly amazing the sheer scale of the thing.

 

[edit]  The mount makes the 12.5" look more like an 8".


Edited by Geo31, 08 January 2018 - 09:48 PM.

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#48 Bomber Bob

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Posted 08 January 2018 - 10:04 PM

Cave... the Unitron of reflectors.  Those big Newts look great, but give me a 10" or larger Cave Cass, and no ladders to get to the eyepiece -- please!


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#49 Terra Nova

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Posted 08 January 2018 - 11:55 PM

I love the Cave Newts! I have said for,years that Cave truly was the Unitron of reflectors! Although they did sell refractors most of which they imported, there was a rare Cave 6” that was built, like their wonderful reflectors, right here in the USA. (It seems to me that they may have had an inhouse 4”as well.)


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#50 Kokatha man

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Posted 09 January 2018 - 12:34 AM

...all of the multitude of responses & reasons why folks like particular scopes provides ample evidence that not only is a significant aspect of their merit in "the eye of the beholder" but "horses for courses" is a very salient factor also! :waytogo:




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