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Vintage and Classic Binoculars discussion (Part 3)

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1771 replies to this topic

#1751 pat in los angeles basin

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Posted 05 September 2021 - 11:42 AM

Going to be dim! (I'd be happy to be proven wrong!)  Even with BaK4 prisms I suspect they  would be a might dim (if the  stated FOV is close to being accurate). Also, if this bino runs as a typical miniature bino, the eyelens coating might be rubbed off from all the eyelash contact. I notice they moved the largish focus wheel forward (usually on the aft) side of the binos. The prisms adjust with the setscrews (shifting the prisms laterally - are there tilt screws as well?) that are seen on the outside of the frame, making any adjustments for merging of images much easier. I don't recall seeing any "kowa/ fujinon" class mercury branded binos (in other words upper end) on auction sites. I hope they spent most of their time in a closet as the close fit of the frame to the glass optics can make shocking the glass all to easy with the help of gravity and the immovable object (floor) Pat


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#1752 MT4

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Posted 05 September 2021 - 07:57 PM

I'll post back after getting it later this week.   It may just be for the fun/cool factor rather than for the optics.  But who knows, there was a guy who won multi-million dollar lottery twice in the same month just a couple of months ago smile.gif


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#1753 Rokkor

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Posted 06 September 2021 - 05:16 AM

I'll post back after getting it later this week.   It may just be for the fun/cool factor rather than for the optics.  But who knows, there was a guy who won multi-million dollar lottery twice in the same month just a couple of months ago smile.gif

I have a Vixen 12x40 6 degree Mikron-type and the view is quite good, and quite sharp across the view. It's stamped JB-93. 7 degrees will be nice! The eyepieces look large enough too. Eye relief will be very short but I find the best way to enjoy these miniature binoculars is simply to back away a bit and not use the full field of view - but it's there if you want it. 


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#1754 pat in los angeles basin

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Posted 11 September 2021 - 12:11 PM

any thoughts on a 7x71(?) listed on shopgoodwill? IF and it appears to show 7x71 on right prism plate. I don't recognize the  the symbol (2 triangles superimposed on each other with "EK" in the center)?

 

https://www.shopgood.../Item/129833954

 

Thanks and Regards, Pat


Edited by pat in los angeles basin, 11 September 2021 - 12:13 PM.


#1755 Rokkor

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Posted 11 September 2021 - 12:46 PM

any thoughts on a 7x71(?) listed on shopgoodwill? IF and it appears to show 7x71 on right prism plate. I don't recognize the  the symbol (2 triangles superimposed on each other with "EK" in the center)?

 

https://www.shopgood.../Item/129833954

 

Thanks and Regards, Pat

7x7.1* degrees. EK is Enomoto Kogaku Seiki KK. That's a WW2 Japanese Nikon 'Novar' 7x50 produced under contract by EK, probably for the army or navy depending on other inspection marks. JES is Japanese Engineering Standard and the writing next to it means 'screw' if I remember right. 


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#1756 hallelujah

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Posted 11 September 2021 - 12:47 PM

any thoughts on a 7x71(?) listed on shopgoodwill? IF and it appears to show 7x71 on right prism plate.

 

https://www.shopgood.../Item/129833954

 

Thanks and Regards, Pat

If you look at it closely the 7? looks more like an upside down 2.

 

Stan
 


Edited by hallelujah, 11 September 2021 - 12:48 PM.


#1757 pat in los angeles basin

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Posted 11 September 2021 - 01:18 PM

Thanks guys: Might this actually be post war early before they instituted the MIOJ era as I seem to recall there was a small gap? I see a  JB55  Enshu Kogaku Seiki Co. Ltd.,Tokyo.- is that the same company or did the Enomoto company disappear at the end of the conflict? So it's a 7x50 with 7.2 deg FOV- uncoated? (looks to be uncoated ) .  Pat



#1758 pat in los angeles basin

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Posted 11 September 2021 - 01:20 PM

"The manufacturer entered the optics industry after acquiring business operations from Enomoto Kogaku Seiki Manufacturing Co., Ltd. in 1944. Instead of adding lenses to its product line,"

 Apparently Fujifilm acquired the company in 1944- interesting   Thanks again, Pat



#1759 Foss

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Posted 11 September 2021 - 02:38 PM

I can't help date the binoculars -- they may be pre-war, WWII, or even post-war before JTII as suggested -- but my hunch is this particular model was first produced in the 1930s. 

Just for kicks, someone with an account could contact the selling GW store and ask them to look through them and see if they have cross hairs.


Edited by Foss, 11 September 2021 - 02:44 PM.


#1760 Rokkor

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Posted 11 September 2021 - 03:12 PM

They are definitely military issue because EK's earliest mention is in the establishment of the Group of 8 optical companies established in 1939 by the Army Optical Technology Department to share the designs and knowledge of Nikon and Toko among 8 existing companies. This group included some of the famous names still around today. Most of the military binoculars are simply labelled with the Magnification and FoV and not the objective size but there are some exceptions (mainly those by Nikon, I think). Possible explanations are parts recycling and that officers could bring their own binoculars to service and have them inspected by the military and a reticule installed. 

 

They are uncoated since coated optics were not produced in Japan until 1946, although the first coated binoculars might have come a bit later. 


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#1761 pat in los angeles basin

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Posted 11 September 2021 - 03:56 PM

Thanks for the info Rokkor. Regards, Pat


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#1762 Rokkor

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Posted 11 September 2021 - 07:13 PM

Thanks for the info Rokkor. Regards, Pat

You're welcome. You can find post-war Japanese military binoculars too with the various Self-Defense Force insignia but so far I have only seen 7x50 models (thus far just Topcon and Kowa but certainly there must be Nikon too which has supplied to other militaries such as Sweden). The current model for the Army seems to be the Katsuma 6x30. It seems they have only ever used single-coated binoculars to save money. Most recently they purchased the cheapest Kenko model (it's a plastic/rubber-coated body and very pedestrian) with single coating too... Probably there are also many Fujinons to supplement the Katsuma models, I just haven't spotted one yet.

 

I had heard that the Japanese binocular companies are a bit shy about supplying to militaries nowadays - it's a bad image in pacifist Japan... but all of the models can be found in civilian versions too, some of which will have multicoating. 

 

The WW2 models are not as refined as the American models and some of those already had coated lenses. 

They are not very abundant and I'm curious about how much it will sell for on Goodwill. It might be a good bargain for the person willing to clean it up. 



#1763 brentwood

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Posted 16 September 2021 - 11:15 AM

Checking the trap lines yesterday, came across a Carl Zeiss 8x30B porro in excellent condition, with hard leather case for $60 Can, ($47US, 34 pound, 40Euros) Sent off an email, trying not to sound too eager.  Went back to the local 'Used' page a little later to see that the very next item was  a Carl Zeiss 10x50 for $80! from the same seller. This one though only had one picture, and I couldn't quite tell if it was the West German one.

We heard back that they were still available, they were quite close by, so off we went faster than **** off a shovel!  There were both W German, I tried an offer, but he said that he had looked up some typical prices and said no! I don't know if he had looked up the prices before he listed them. Both in excellent condition and alignment looks good , but I won't know for sure until I get two working eyes in just under a month's time. I'm planning a binocular orgy a few days after I get the slice& dice. I have a few I'm looking to test properly! 


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#1764 brentwood

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Posted 16 September 2021 - 06:30 PM

I just noticed that the 10x50  is  just marked 'Made in Germany' but the 8x30 , which has a much higher serial number is marked 'Made in West Germany' !   The 10x50 looks exactly like this one, and appears to be made in the 1970s . https://www.ebay.ca/...hMAAOSwd~FhGeah

Is it a W Germany one? I have tried looking it up , but still not sure Thanks!



#1765 scottmm2012

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Posted 18 September 2021 - 11:33 AM

Got burnt on a pair of Sears 6243 WA.  Upon initial inspection, slightly out of collimation, obvious Bk7 prisms. Did a little adjustment on the right objective to collimate.  After collimation got crisp views but could tell the prisms were dirty. Used the binocular a few days at work, with the intent to clean them this weekend.  Total disassembly, clean and lube and found a chipped prism. 😳 No pieces in the body.  Still going to put them back together and do more thorough job checking views to see if you can tell prism chips when looking through the binoculars.



#1766 ECP M42

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Posted 18 September 2021 - 01:33 PM

I don't think that chipping will affect your enjoyment ... 

 

... cleaning work is already a great satisfaction and an act of respect for these optics, so a small defect will only be a particular feature of your unique model. waytogo.gif


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#1767 scottmm2012

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Posted 19 September 2021 - 07:28 AM

I don't think that chipping will affect your enjoyment ... 

 

... cleaning work is already a great satisfaction and an act of respect for these optics, so a small defect will only be a particular feature of your unique model. waytogo.gif

That is good to hear.



#1768 FrankL

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Posted 19 September 2021 - 08:29 AM

Whether the chipping affects the view obviously depends on the size and location of the chip, but if it’s fairly small and on the edge of the prism I agree it likely won’t affect the view at all. But it’s always a good idea to paint over the chipped area with black paint to reduce stray light reflections which might occur especially if the binocular is aimed in the direction of a bright light source. Just be sure the paint has fully dried and cured before reinstalling the prism in binocular. 


Edited by FrankL, 19 September 2021 - 08:31 AM.

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#1769 ulrichw

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Posted 19 September 2021 - 10:15 AM

I just noticed that the 10x50  is  just marked 'Made in Germany' but the 8x30 , which has a much higher serial number is marked 'Made in West Germany' !   The 10x50 looks exactly like this one, and appears to be made in the 1970s . https://www.ebay.ca/...hMAAOSwd~FhGeah

Is it a W Germany one? I have tried looking it up , but still not sure Thanks!

Per British Trademarks Act 1887 to 1945 “Germany”

1946 to early 70’s “West Germany” and “Germany”

from early 70’s to 1990 “West Germany” only (Federal Court judgement)

from 1990 onwards “Germany” again.

So the 10x50 is probably late 50’s to late 60’s and the 8x30 could be 70’s. You would need to post pictures to get a more reliable age determination, because Zeiss West seemed to use non-sequential model dependent numbering.


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#1770 brentwood

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Posted 19 September 2021 - 01:48 PM

They do look exactly like the Ebay picture I showed, except that the serial number is six digits beginning with 491***. Accordingly I don't know when they were built as I initially thought I had a seven digit serial number. According to the Europa site, they were made in the 1920s, I think they are newer than that . ! Thanks for your help. 



#1771 ulrichw

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Posted 20 September 2021 - 06:57 AM

They do look exactly like the Ebay picture I showed, except that the serial number is six digits beginning with 491***. Accordingly I don't know when they were built as I initially thought I had a seven digit serial number. According to the Europa site, they were made in the 1920s, I think they are newer than that . ! Thanks for your help. 

The Europa site list applies to CZ Jena production only.

I have a same model CZ Oberkochen 8x50 with serial 568…, which is engraved to the donee in 1962. So that strongly suggests that this 10x50 is probably mid to late 50’s. Brilliant optics which often suffer from outgassing of lubricant, requiring complete disassembly. Built like the proverbial tank. Had mine serviced privately by Zeiss’ former head of service, totally worth it.


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#1772 brentwood

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Posted 20 September 2021 - 10:03 AM

Thanks so much for the info.  I can't wait to get both eyes back so I can test them properly! 




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