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Explaining why Win 10 security update KB4056892 breaks ASCOM drivers

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#26 Peter in Reno

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Posted 09 January 2018 - 09:50 PM

I am getting tired of Microsoft bashing. Think Apple Macs never had issues? Think again. Ever heard of Mac's OS called El Capitan or it was also well known as El Crapitan. It literally broke Software Bisque The Sky X software for Macs.

 

http://www.bisque.co...aspx?q=crapitan

 

'nuff said.

 

Peter

 

EDIT: You need to be a member of Bisque support forum to see the link above.


Edited by Peter in Reno, 09 January 2018 - 10:31 PM.

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#27 Michael Covington

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Posted 09 January 2018 - 10:10 PM

Well said, sir!   Macs are well-built computers, but they're not made of magical pixie dust.  They get a lot of their reliability from simply not having as much software and not having third-party hardware.  Microsoft took on a much bigger job, attempting to support more software and vastly more hardware manufacturers.  They shouldn't be compared head-on -- they do not compete directly against each other.

 

Besides, Macs and Windows systems are both Pentiums these days -- same architecture -- same vulnerability.


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#28 epdreher

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Posted 09 January 2018 - 10:12 PM

 

All you have to do is roll back KB4056892 and wait for a more correct version of it.

 

The media created a panic, and Microsoft had to roll out a patch too quickly.

I would agree that removing the patch is the best way forward.

 

44ye:

 

I didn't mean to say that it doesn't affect the use of Intel processors elsewhere, just that MS always seems to break things in a rush.

Always? fingertap.gif

 

Bad syntax on my part.  Better to convey what I meant:  Microsoft always seems to break things when they're in a rush.

 

Figuring this would happen again, I disabled my updates as soon as I heard about the current Intel problem.  As for El Capitan, re another post, I never had a bit of trouble running any OS X iteration.  But then, I wasn't running that one piece of software.


Edited by epdreher, 09 January 2018 - 10:14 PM.


#29 Phil Cowell

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Posted 09 January 2018 - 10:43 PM

I agree that we should install the newer patch when available.  Lowering security is a temporary measure

 

Also, on my astronomy computer I don't do online banking or web surfing.  Very little can be stolen from it!  This is one of many reasons to have a separate, inexpensive laptop for telescope control.

That doesn’t stop you from being made a part of a botnet.



#30 Phil Cowell

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Posted 09 January 2018 - 10:44 PM

Well said, sir!   Macs are well-built computers, but they're not made of magical pixie dust.  They get a lot of their reliability from simply not having as much software and not having third-party hardware.  Microsoft took on a much bigger job, attempting to support more software and vastly more hardware manufacturers.  They shouldn't be compared head-on -- they do not compete directly against each other.

 

Besides, Macs and Windows systems are both Pentiums these days -- same architecture -- same vulnerability.

Macs that are Intel based are at risk as are AMD and ARM processors.



#31 View2

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Posted 09 January 2018 - 11:44 PM

I have both mac and windows. Both have Intel chips. The mac is crawling, but the newer, faster windows i7 still working well enough. Fortunately I do everything on my newer laptop cuz it's faster (newer chip, more ram and SSD.

Edited by View2, 09 January 2018 - 11:45 PM.


#32 View2

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Posted 09 January 2018 - 11:45 PM


Well said, sir! Macs are well-built computers, but they're not made of magical pixie dust. They get a lot of their reliability from simply not having as much software and not having third-party hardware. Microsoft took on a much bigger job, attempting to support more software and vastly more hardware manufacturers. They shouldn't be compared head-on -- they do not compete directly against each other.

Besides, Macs and Windows systems are both Pentiums these days -- same architecture -- same vulnerability.

Macs that are Intel based are at risk as are AMD and ARM processors.
Hmm, I read AMD not affected

Edited by View2, 09 January 2018 - 11:46 PM.


#33 akulapanam

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Posted 10 January 2018 - 12:18 AM

 

 

Well said, sir! Macs are well-built computers, but they're not made of magical pixie dust. They get a lot of their reliability from simply not having as much software and not having third-party hardware. Microsoft took on a much bigger job, attempting to support more software and vastly more hardware manufacturers. They shouldn't be compared head-on -- they do not compete directly against each other.

Besides, Macs and Windows systems are both Pentiums these days -- same architecture -- same vulnerability.

Macs that are Intel based are at risk as are AMD and ARM processors.
Hmm, I read AMD not affected

 

Unfortunately both AMD and ARM are impacted.  The AMD chip for the XBOX One is actually one of the only chips not impacted.

 

The funny thing is the only reason why ASCOM is even impacted is that DCOM support was required by TheSky5/6.  "The DCOM info has been part of ASCOM drivers since 2004, when it was discovered that TheSky5/6 needed DCOM permissions to connect to ASCOM drivers via TeleAPI. It is believed that DCOM was part of the pioneering Internet Astronomy Software products from Software Bisque. No part of ASCOM uses DCOM, and the DCOM registration info could be removed completely from ASCOM drivers now if we knew for sure that no one was using TheSky 6/TeleAPI. However I still get questions from people who are using it."

 

http://www.ascom-sta...oper/TheSky.htm


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#34 Michael Covington

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Posted 10 January 2018 - 01:42 AM

 

I agree that we should install the newer patch when available.  Lowering security is a temporary measure

 

Also, on my astronomy computer I don't do online banking or web surfing.  Very little can be stolen from it!  This is one of many reasons to have a separate, inexpensive laptop for telescope control.

That doesn’t stop you from being made a part of a botnet.

 

Not much of one, if the computer isn't on the Internet much of the time.  Besides, this vulnerabilty is a read-only vulnerability.  The speculative execution bug allows programs to see other programs, not alter them.  It is just one more thing a virus can do.  You still have to get a virus.  I use virus protection and very, very rarely get them (like 1 per computer per 20 years).   I do perform deeper checks (e.g., with Malwarebytes) periodically just in case.



#35 CharlesW

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Posted 10 January 2018 - 07:58 PM

First clear night and I find that the update has “probably” broken my Apogee camera and filter wheel. They aren’t being discovered anymore. I’ve uninstalled the update as suggested, rebooted my computer, but the equipment remains broken. Has anyone here actually recovered equipment from this malady by following the advice or is this all theoretical?



#36 epdreher

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Posted 10 January 2018 - 08:06 PM

This...is Windows.



#37 Peter in Reno

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Posted 10 January 2018 - 08:09 PM

This does not help solve problems by bashing Windows. I can think of a few things to bash at Macs but I won't.

 

Peter


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#38 epdreher

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Posted 10 January 2018 - 09:04 PM

Of every system, size, performance, or OS I've used over the past four decades, Macs have caused me the least grief.

 

My first was a DEC PDP11/70, so this goes back a bit.

 

Anything man makes is not perfect.  Some are less so than others.  I disabled updates in anticipation of the current issue.  Obviously a good call.


Edited by epdreher, 10 January 2018 - 09:04 PM.


#39 epdreher

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Posted 10 January 2018 - 09:34 PM

I am getting tired of Microsoft bashing. Think Apple Macs never had issues? Think again. Ever heard of Mac's OS called El Capitan or it was also well known as El Crapitan. It literally broke Software Bisque The Sky X software for Macs.

 

http://www.bisque.co...aspx?q=crapitan

 

'nuff said.

 

Peter

 

EDIT: You need to be a member of Bisque support forum to see the link above.

Which might be why most of us have never heard of any El Capitan problems.



#40 Steve Cox

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Posted 10 January 2018 - 11:19 PM

I am getting tired of Microsoft bashing. Think Apple Macs never had issues? Think again. Ever heard of Mac's OS called El Capitan or it was also well known as El Crapitan. It literally broke Software Bisque The Sky X software for Macs.

 

http://www.bisque.co...aspx?q=crapitan

 

'nuff said.

 

Peter

 

EDIT: You need to be a member of Bisque support forum to see the link above.

I had no problem with El Capitan, found it quite good myself.  Sierra and especially High Sierra though, were the death knell for my former Mac.  Couldn't even reinstall it, and many things didn't work right with it.  That and the insanely numerous iOS updates within just a couple months after release drove me back to Windows - which is proving much more stable.  Nor could I get Linux to do everything I want and need as well as Windows, not to my satisfaction.

 

Seems to me if a security update messes with ASCOM, the fault would lie with ASCOM, not MS.


Edited by Steve Cox, 10 January 2018 - 11:22 PM.


#41 Peter in Reno

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Posted 10 January 2018 - 11:20 PM

 

I am getting tired of Microsoft bashing. Think Apple Macs never had issues? Think again. Ever heard of Mac's OS called El Capitan or it was also well known as El Crapitan. It literally broke Software Bisque The Sky X software for Macs.

 

http://www.bisque.co...aspx?q=crapitan

 

'nuff said.

 

Peter

 

EDIT: You need to be a member of Bisque support forum to see the link above.

Which might be why most of us have never heard of any El Capitan problems.

 

Except for people who used Software Bisque The Sky X extensively and El Crapitan made the expensive The Sky X worthless.

 

Peter



#42 Steve Cox

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Posted 10 January 2018 - 11:24 PM

Well said, sir!   Macs are well-built computers, but they're not made of magical pixie dust.  They get a lot of their reliability from simply not having as much software and not having third-party hardware.  Microsoft took on a much bigger job, attempting to support more software and vastly more hardware manufacturers.  They shouldn't be compared head-on -- they do not compete directly against each other.

 

Besides, Macs and Windows systems are both Pentiums these days -- same architecture -- same vulnerability.

 

Yes, very well said, and the same rule applies to NIX also, no better or less vulnerable, just less used so less probability.



#43 Peter in Reno

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Posted 10 January 2018 - 11:27 PM

My bottom line point is it's pointless to blame on OS for certain problems. So please help solve problems instead of bash on OS.

 

Peter


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#44 Michael Covington

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Posted 10 January 2018 - 11:33 PM

 

I am getting tired of Microsoft bashing. Think Apple Macs never had issues? Think again. Ever heard of Mac's OS called El Capitan or it was also well known as El Crapitan. It literally broke Software Bisque The Sky X software for Macs.

 

http://www.bisque.co...aspx?q=crapitan

 

'nuff said.

 

Peter

 

EDIT: You need to be a member of Bisque support forum to see the link above.

I had no problem with El Capitan, found it quite good myself.  Sierra and especially High Sierra though, were the death knell for my former Mac.  Couldn't even reinstall it, and many things didn't work right with it.  That and the insanely numerous iOS updates within just a couple months after release drove me back to Windows - which is proving much more stable.  Nor could I get Linux to do everything I want and need as well as Windows, not to my satisfaction.

 

Seems to me if a security update messes with ASCOM, the fault would lie with ASCOM, not MS.

 

I thought so too at first, but Microsoft's documentation admits a bug with DCOM authentication in the update.  That is what broke ASCOM.

 

ASCOM may be able to work around it very quickly, though.



#45 Michael Covington

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Posted 10 January 2018 - 11:35 PM

Announcement from ASCOM:
https://ascom-standards.org/

What they are saying (in my words, not theirs): Since the problem is known to be a bug admitted by Microsoft, and there are are other serious bugs, ASCOM is expecting Microsoft to issue a corrected update very soon.  If the change to DCOM is in fact permanent, ASCOM will change in accordance with it.


Edited by MCovington, 11 January 2018 - 10:40 AM.


#46 epdreher

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Posted 11 January 2018 - 11:04 AM

 

 

I am getting tired of Microsoft bashing. Think Apple Macs never had issues? Think again. Ever heard of Mac's OS called El Capitan or it was also well known as El Crapitan. It literally broke Software Bisque The Sky X software for Macs.

 

http://www.bisque.co...aspx?q=crapitan

 

'nuff said.

 

Peter

 

EDIT: You need to be a member of Bisque support forum to see the link above.

Which might be why most of us have never heard of any El Capitan problems.

 

Except for people who used Software Bisque The Sky X extensively and El Crapitan made the expensive The Sky X worthless.

 

Peter

 

Exactly.  Those who used SB and TSX were affected.  I wonder what percentage of El Cap users around the world that involves.



#47 epdreher

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Posted 11 January 2018 - 11:09 AM

I had no problem with El Capitan, found it quite good myself.  Sierra and especially High Sierra though, were the death knell for my former Mac.  Couldn't even reinstall it, and many things didn't work right with it.  That and the insanely numerous iOS updates within just a couple months after release drove me back to Windows - which is proving much more stable.  Nor could I get Linux to do everything I want and need as well as Windows, not to my satisfaction.

 

 

 

Seems to me if a security update messes with ASCOM, the fault would lie with ASCOM, not MS.

 

My iMac is the late 2009 model, running on High Sierra, and has never had any issues.  This includes the latest security update I installed very early this morning, which is analogous to the recent Win 10 / MS fiasco.



#48 psandelle

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Posted 11 January 2018 - 11:23 AM

The manual fix doesn't take much to do, so if you're seeing problem, or are worried you might, make the quick changes. No muss, no fuss.

 

Paul



#49 akulapanam

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Posted 11 January 2018 - 11:33 AM

Keep in mind the only software that doesn’t work after the manual fix is connecting to TSX from PHD2 , MaximDL, ETC. Everything else either wasn’t registered in DCOM or took about 5 minutes to change. Not a big deal especially if you look at some of the windows 10 forums and realize the DCOm problem doesn’t even register because it’s just not commonly used anymore.

I do find it funny that the only reason this problem exists for ASCOM is that they added support for TheSky6.
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#50 Michael Covington

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Posted 11 January 2018 - 12:40 PM

Maybe ASCOM needs a new version that leaves out TheSky6 support.


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