Jump to content

  •  

CNers have asked about a donation box for Cloudy Nights over the years, so here you go. Donation is not required by any means, so please enjoy your stay.

Photo

8" EdgeHD - Beginning Ep's

  • Please log in to reply
39 replies to this topic

#1 acegator25

acegator25

    Lift Off

  • -----
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 11
  • Joined: 09 Jan 2018

Posted 11 January 2018 - 10:00 AM

After reading older forum posts and continuing to confuse myself even more I believe the Advanced VX with the EdgeHD would be the best fit for what my 9-year-old and I plan on using as our next scope.  I live in a light polluted subdivision, but my parents have a rural farm in Central Louisiana we can occasionally get to every couple of weeks, so portability is a factor as well. We have a refractor now and understandably upgrading to a better refractor would be an easier next step but I fear light conditions would not be optimal for regular viewing and I would get more benefit from the larger 8”  .. now to eyepieces and recommendations 😊 .. there are a TON of recommendations going back on previous threads and I have decided a good set of ES pieces would be a good starter and still fit within a reasonable budget.  These are the ep's I have priced out just looking recommendations/additions anyone would have that I could add (my wife's tolerance would be 400-500 more)   I am looking for something that would give us a good combination of DSO and planetary viewing and be a decent starting point.

ES 82* 6.7mm
ES 82* 11mm
ES 68* 16mm
ES 68*  24mm
Baader 2” clicklock

 

thanks everyone. 


  • aeajr likes this

#2 Jeff Struve

Jeff Struve

    Skylab

  • *****
  • Moderators
  • Posts: 4200
  • Joined: 05 Nov 2010
  • Loc: Iowa, USA

Posted 11 January 2018 - 10:14 AM

Excellent on the click lock... and happy to see that you don't have a zoom eyepiece listed!

 

For Eyepieces, I'm a minimalist... 5 main scopes and 5 main eyepieces of which I use the 13mm and 21mm the most...

 

I think that you have a pretty good grip on the eyepieces you've selected... me being a wide FoV lover, that would be my only other consideration if I were making the purchase... well done!



#3 amzking

amzking

    Viking 1

  • -----
  • Posts: 658
  • Joined: 12 Nov 2017
  • Loc: Space Coast, Florida

Posted 11 January 2018 - 10:17 AM

After reading older forum posts and continuing to confuse myself even more I believe the Advanced VX with the EdgeHD would be the best fit for what my 9-year-old and I plan on using as our next scope.  I live in a light polluted subdivision, but my parents have a rural farm in Central Louisiana we can occasionally get to every couple of weeks, so portability is a factor as well. We have a refractor now and understandably upgrading to a better refractor would be an easier next step but I fear light conditions would not be optimal for regular viewing and I would get more benefit from the larger 8”  .. now to eyepieces and recommendations .. there are a TON of recommendations going back on previous threads and I have decided a good set of ES pieces would be a good starter and still fit within a reasonable budget.  These are the ep's I have priced out just looking recommendations/additions anyone would have that I could add (my wife's tolerance would be 400-500 more)   I am looking for something that would give us a good combination of DSO and planetary viewing and be a decent starting point.

ES 82* 6.7mm
ES 82* 11mm
ES 68* 16mm
ES 68*  24mm
Baader 2” clicklock

 

thanks everyone. 

I have the same scope and am also a beginner.

 

I purchased a Baader Zoom and that is my only EP for higher power at this time.  It is wonderful.  Other members here have compared them to expensive single EPs here and not seen a huge difference.  Is that what you mean by the Baader Clicklock?  If so, you may want to hold off on higher power EPs until you see how that performs at the 16, 12, and 8mm focal lengths.

 

I recently got the ES 82 degree 24mm and 30mm and I LOVE them.  I have to REALLY strain to see the edge of the eyepiece with the 24.  I can see it more easily with the 30.  I carefully compared the ES 82 24 to the zoom 24, and aside from the field of view, they appear to perform the same.

 

I LOVE the field of view with the 30, I could fit the double cluster easily with room to spare, whereas with the 40mm plossl that came with the scope, it was crowded.

 

So my collection now consists of the zoom, the ES 82 24, and the ES 82 30.  I had thought I would want another lower power like the ES 68 40 but I really do not think it is needed right now considering the FOV I have with the 30.

 

Looking at your list, I would recommend something in the 30 to 40mm range.  With the 82 series, the 30 is fine, with the 68 series, I would look at maybe the 34 or the 40.  I really enjoy the wider views of some of the DSOs.  Be warned though - they are HUGE EPs.  I decided to rebalance my scope with the 2" diagonal and just do my slewing with no EP in place or with just the relatively lightweight zoom in place so as to not worry about the extra weight of the 2" EPs.

 

Anyway, that's my thoughts.  I do believe I am done shopping for EPs for now, I think my collection is good with the range I have.

 

Good luck with your decision.


  • aeajr and drneilmb like this

#4 amzking

amzking

    Viking 1

  • -----
  • Posts: 658
  • Joined: 12 Nov 2017
  • Loc: Space Coast, Florida

Posted 11 January 2018 - 10:19 AM

Excellent on the click lock... and happy to see that you don't have a zoom eyepiece listed!

 

For Eyepieces, I'm a minimalist... 5 main scopes and 5 main eyepieces of which I use the 13mm and 21mm the most...

 

I think that you have a pretty good grip on the eyepieces you've selected... me being a wide FoV lover, that would be my only other consideration if I were making the purchase... well done!

 

LOL and I jumped in with my zoom thoughts!  I really wasn't sure which Baader product he referred to, I considered the clicklock but being in Florida, handling screwlocks on diagonals is not a big issue for me.


  • Jeff Struve likes this

#5 Jeff Struve

Jeff Struve

    Skylab

  • *****
  • Moderators
  • Posts: 4200
  • Joined: 05 Nov 2010
  • Loc: Iowa, USA

Posted 11 January 2018 - 10:27 AM

Lots of folks swear by zooms... heck... I have 3 of them! I use a Lunt zoom for my Lunt when I do outreach.... I use the Baader zoom with my other scopes for outreach... both work really well... I just don't like them for my viewing...

 

My 3rd zoom is my 2mm - 4mm Nagler, which I used 1 time when I got it... typically I don't care for hi mag as I don't usually have the skies for it, but when lightning strikes (or dosesn't), and we have great skies, it is there! 

 

I also am not a Barlow guy, but have 2 PowerMates... in a pinch, I use them for AP, not visual... again, lots of folks swear by them... just not I!


  • amzking likes this

#6 MG1692

MG1692

    Apollo

  • *****
  • Posts: 1007
  • Joined: 25 Aug 2014
  • Loc: Western Kansas

Posted 11 January 2018 - 10:28 AM

After reading older forum posts and continuing to confuse myself even more I believe the Advanced VX with the EdgeHD would be the best fit for what my 9-year-old and I plan on using as our next scope.  I live in a light polluted subdivision, but my parents have a rural farm in Central Louisiana we can occasionally get to every couple of weeks, so portability is a factor as well. We have a refractor now and understandably upgrading to a better refractor would be an easier next step but I fear light conditions would not be optimal for regular viewing and I would get more benefit from the larger 8”  .. now to eyepieces and recommendations .. there are a TON of recommendations going back on previous threads and I have decided a good set of ES pieces would be a good starter and still fit within a reasonable budget.  These are the ep's I have priced out just looking recommendations/additions anyone would have that I could add (my wife's tolerance would be 400-500 more)   I am looking for something that would give us a good combination of DSO and planetary viewing and be a decent starting point.

ES 82* 6.7mm
ES 82* 11mm
ES 68* 16mm
ES 68*  24mm
Baader 2” clicklock

 

thanks everyone. 

I would swap out the 6.7 for a good barlow. At F10 chances of using the 6.7 due to sky conditions are going to be rare. On those rare nights you can use the barlow with the 16 and the 11 to bracket the magnification you would get from the 6.7. 


  • Eddgie, Usquebae, Allanbarth1 and 1 other like this

#7 amzking

amzking

    Viking 1

  • -----
  • Posts: 658
  • Joined: 12 Nov 2017
  • Loc: Space Coast, Florida

Posted 11 January 2018 - 10:39 AM

 

After reading older forum posts and continuing to confuse myself even more I believe the Advanced VX with the EdgeHD would be the best fit for what my 9-year-old and I plan on using as our next scope.  I live in a light polluted subdivision, but my parents have a rural farm in Central Louisiana we can occasionally get to every couple of weeks, so portability is a factor as well. We have a refractor now and understandably upgrading to a better refractor would be an easier next step but I fear light conditions would not be optimal for regular viewing and I would get more benefit from the larger 8”  .. now to eyepieces and recommendations .. there are a TON of recommendations going back on previous threads and I have decided a good set of ES pieces would be a good starter and still fit within a reasonable budget.  These are the ep's I have priced out just looking recommendations/additions anyone would have that I could add (my wife's tolerance would be 400-500 more)   I am looking for something that would give us a good combination of DSO and planetary viewing and be a decent starting point.

ES 82* 6.7mm
ES 82* 11mm
ES 68* 16mm
ES 68*  24mm
Baader 2” clicklock

 

thanks everyone. 

I would swap out the 6.7 for a good barlow. At F10 chances of using the 6.7 due to sky conditions are going to be rare. On those rare nights you can use the barlow with the 16 and the 11 to bracket the magnification you would get from the 6.7. 

 

Agree that the 8mm on my zoom is very obviously the lowest I can go.



#8 jallbery

jallbery

    Vanguard

  • *****
  • Posts: 2480
  • Joined: 01 Nov 2015
  • Loc: Southeast Michigan

Posted 11 January 2018 - 10:54 AM

You don't have anything there to max out the field of view.   You paid extra for a scope to reduce coma and flatten the field at the outer edges of the focal plane image.   You ought to have an eyepiece that lets you see what you paid for!   You mention the 2" clicklock... are you getting a 2" diagonal as well?

 

Given your other selections, the obvious choice (to me) to max out your field of view (in 2" format) is the 40mm ES 68.  If you are an ultra-widefield lover, the 30mm ES 82 is another candidate.   If I were only to pick one, I'd go with the 40mm to get a bigger exit pupil and a wider true field of view (besides, 68-degree AFOV are plenty wide enough for me).   For a more budget-friendly alternative, the 38mm Orion Q70/Agena SWA is pretty good at F/10 (it's what I use on a non-Edge), but with the Edge, I'd want something with less edge astigmatism.  If you can't afford the 40mm ES up front, a used 38mm Q70/SWA could fill in admirably until you can get the ES (and then you can probably sell the 38mm and get most, if not all, your money back).   Or for that matter, just go with the Meade 56mm plossl.   It's going to be low power and a relatively narrow field of view, but it likewise gives you the max field of view you can get out of your scope.  The brighter view is useful for locating faint fuzzies under very dark skies, and works well with nebula filters.

 

My other comment is on the high power end.   For planetary and most other high-power observing using a tracking mount, I greatly prefer a narrower field of view.  The effects may be purely psychological, but a small planet looks even smaller when placed in an 82-degree field.  The Meade HD60 12mm, 9mm, and 6.5mm are quite good, in my opinion, and are reasonably priced.  They also have comfortable eye relief (although perhaps not enough for eyeglass wearers).  The similar Paradigm and Starguider "Dual ED" eyepiece lines also fit well in this roll.  The Baader Hyperion zoom has its followers as well, but I prefer individual eyepieces.

 

The place where I'd want 82-degree fields would be in the mid/upper teens and/or lower-mid twenties.   

 

The ES 68 and 82 lines are generally very good.   At F/10, you'd be hard pressed to see much of an advantage in the higher-priced Tele Vue equivalents.


  • Allanbarth1 and amzking like this

#9 Allanbarth1

Allanbarth1

    Skylab

  • -----
  • Posts: 4006
  • Joined: 29 Apr 2016
  • Loc: Central New Jersey

Posted 11 January 2018 - 10:59 AM

​     My 2 cent, I would keep the selection just as you have it for now but...... You know there has to be a but...lol

I would add a 2x Barlow. That just my preference.

     I agree with jallbery also with picking up a wide field ep in the 30mm to 40 mm range. Personally I would go to the 2inch barrel size to achieve the widest field possible for observing deep sky objects. (on my current wish list, just need to decide between the  ES 68* 34mm or 40mm, I am going to pick up one or the other soon)

      Other than that I would use the ep's you listed and the Barlow for a while. This would allow you time to use what you have in different sky and weather conditions. Also you will have time to see what ep's you use most/less and what you like to view. After a while of getting to know what you like you can pick up something to fill a gap or sell what you don't use/like.


Edited by Allanbarth1, 11 January 2018 - 11:22 AM.


#10 M11Mike

M11Mike

    Viking 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 842
  • Joined: 02 Apr 2016
  • Loc: Ballston Lake, NY

Posted 11 January 2018 - 11:25 AM

ES 24/68 - T/V Panopotic 24/68 if you're willing to pay a little more.  I have tried everything from E/S 82's to T/V Naglers and even old school Erfles and Konigs.   The Pan 24/68 is my favorite eyepiece with my 8 Celestron SCT. 2X Barlows well too.  The ES is VERY good (read all the CN's reviews) and the Pan 24/68 slightly better (superior edge definition)///again read all the CN's reviews).  Both offer the widest possible FOV with 1.25" EP's (27mm field stops).  

 

MP/BL  


  • Allanbarth1 likes this

#11 Rovert9988

Rovert9988

    Vostok 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 158
  • Joined: 22 Jan 2017
  • Loc: WA State

Posted 11 January 2018 - 11:32 AM

I have a couple ES 82 eyepieces I use a lot with my EdgeHD 8" and really like them quite a bit. Am planning to add more in the future so that my entire primary kit for it is ES82 and Televue eyepieces.

I'll also vouch for how enjoyable the click lock is. Being able to instantly adjust the angle of my diagonal makes viewing much more comfortable and enjoyable. In fact I can do most of my viewing with it comfy in a chair even riding on an EQ-G.

#12 amzking

amzking

    Viking 1

  • -----
  • Posts: 658
  • Joined: 12 Nov 2017
  • Loc: Space Coast, Florida

Posted 11 January 2018 - 11:42 AM

I have a couple ES 82 eyepieces I use a lot with my EdgeHD 8" and really like them quite a bit. Am planning to add more in the future so that my entire primary kit for it is ES82 and Televue eyepieces.

I'll also vouch for how enjoyable the click lock is. Being able to instantly adjust the angle of my diagonal makes viewing much more comfortable and enjoyable. In fact I can do most of my viewing with it comfy in a chair even riding on an EQ-G.


So do you always use your .7 focal reducer with your Edge? And do you use it with lower power 82* EPs like the 24 or the 30? If so, do you notice any problems?

#13 M11Mike

M11Mike

    Viking 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 842
  • Joined: 02 Apr 2016
  • Loc: Ballston Lake, NY

Posted 11 January 2018 - 12:01 PM

I compared the ES 24/68 to the T/V Panoptic 24/68 (side by side) in my 8SE and my SV-102 APO.  In both cases (ie with either scope) the stars near the edge on the E/S were a bit mushy (they're good) but they are pin-point sharp right to the very edge with the T/V Pan.  Not so with the ES. The whole intent of a wide-field eyepiece is a WIDE FIELD - what good is it - if only 70%, 80% or 90% of the field is pin-point sharp - then in my book it's NOT a 68 degree FOV - it's 'something' (???) less.  Might be 68 degrees but it's not a FULLY EFFECTIVE 68 degrees.  Call it EFFECTIVE ACTUAL FIELD OF VIEW if you will.  

 

Yes - the Pan costs more - but you DO get more.   The additional cost might be disproportional to the improvement --- but it IS better...if you're willing to pay for it.  And if you want the absolute MOST you can get out of your scope - get the very best.

 

MP/BL    



#14 aeajr

aeajr

    Voyager 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 12657
  • Joined: 26 Jun 2015
  • Loc: Long Island, New York, USA

Posted 11 January 2018 - 12:05 PM

 

After reading older forum posts and continuing to confuse myself even more I believe the Advanced VX with the EdgeHD would be the best fit for what my 9-year-old and I plan on using as our next scope.  I live in a light polluted subdivision, but my parents have a rural farm in Central Louisiana we can occasionally get to every couple of weeks, so portability is a factor as well. We have a refractor now and understandably upgrading to a better refractor would be an easier next step but I fear light conditions would not be optimal for regular viewing and I would get more benefit from the larger 8”  .. now to eyepieces and recommendations .. there are a TON of recommendations going back on previous threads and I have decided a good set of ES pieces would be a good starter and still fit within a reasonable budget.  These are the ep's I have priced out just looking recommendations/additions anyone would have that I could add (my wife's tolerance would be 400-500 more)   I am looking for something that would give us a good combination of DSO and planetary viewing and be a decent starting point.

ES 82* 6.7mm
ES 82* 11mm
ES 68* 16mm
ES 68*  24mm
Baader 2” clicklock

 

thanks everyone. 

I have the same scope and am also a beginner.

 

I purchased a Baader Zoom and that is my only EP for higher power at this time.  It is wonderful.  Other members here have compared them to expensive single EPs here and not seen a huge difference.  Is that what you mean by the Baader Clicklock?  If so, you may want to hold off on higher power EPs until you see how that performs at the 16, 12, and 8mm focal lengths.

 

I recently got the ES 82 degree 24mm and 30mm and I LOVE them.  I have to REALLY strain to see the edge of the eyepiece with the 24.  I can see it more easily with the 30.  I carefully compared the ES 82 24 to the zoom 24, and aside from the field of view, they appear to perform the same.

 

I LOVE the field of view with the 30, I could fit the double cluster easily with room to spare, whereas with the 40mm plossl that came with the scope, it was crowded.

 

So my collection now consists of the zoom, the ES 82 24, and the ES 82 30.  I had thought I would want another lower power like the ES 68 40 but I really do not think it is needed right now considering the FOV I have with the 30.

 

Looking at your list, I would recommend something in the 30 to 40mm range.  With the 82 series, the 30 is fine, with the 68 series, I would look at maybe the 34 or the 40.  I really enjoy the wider views of some of the DSOs.  Be warned though - they are HUGE EPs.  I decided to rebalance my scope with the 2" diagonal and just do my slewing with no EP in place or with just the relatively lightweight zoom in place so as to not worry about the extra weight of the 2" EPs.

 

Anyway, that's my thoughts.  I do believe I am done shopping for EPs for now, I think my collection is good with the range I have.

 

Good luck with your decision.

 

amzking basically wrote my reply for me.

 

EX 82 30 and the Baader Hyperion Zoom would be my recommendations.  If, after a while you feel the need for the ES 82 24 or something else, you can add it later, but Alice seems happy with hers.  

 

The 8" EdgeHD FL will be 2032 mm

 

the 30 mm 82 will give you 67X and 1.22 degree FOV for your low power wide field.

 

A 24 mm 82 would give you  85X and .98 degree FOV      Some would say that is too close but if you do a lot of large DSO viewing you may want this.

 

The Zoom will give you 85X to 255X, but you will likely use it mostly in the 112 to 255 range.  That is where I spend the most time with my BHZ.

 

So, with the 30 mm and the Zoom, 2 eyepieces,  you would have 67X wide view and everything from 85X to 255X.   

 

If you want to expand later you can, but this gives you full coverage now.  Consider the 24 for the future and maybe a 2X barlow or the ES 2.25X if you like.  ES has a 2.25X barlow that offer a removable optical cell that can give you 1.3X for a more usable range up to 331X with the barlow element screwed onto the zoom.

 

 

I have both the Celestron 24 to 8 and the Baader Hyperion 24-8 zooms. 

If you are on a tight budget, get the Celestron 

If you have a richer budget get the Baader Hyperion Mark IV 

http://agenaastro.co...-eyepieces.html

 

  • With a zoom, the eyepiece seems to disappear as you just move in and out at will, no swapping, no thinking about eyepiece changes
  • I never expected the zoom eyepiece to become my primary eyepiece, but it has.
  • The Celestron 8-24 zoom is good and comparable to my Plossl eyepieces ($65)
  • The Baader Hyperion is great and comparable to my Explore Scientific eyepieces ( $289)
  • Watching doubles split as I rotate the barrel is wonderful
  • One filter serves over a wide range of magnifications, no screwing and unscrewing to try other eyepieces
  • Moving smoothly from and between small changes in magnification helps when seeing is not the best
  • I am always working at the optimum magnification for this target.
  • Sharing the view with others is easier, especially in my manual tracking Dob - I hand it over at low mag so it stays in the view longer.  They zoom back in to whatever magnification works best for them.
  • My eyepiece case has been greatly simplified
  • Kids love the zoom

Transparency and Seeing - Note that atmospheric conditions, rather than your telescope,  will often be the limiting factor on practical magnification for any given observing session.  When the atmosphere is turbulent, poor β€œseeing” conditions, you may find that the image breaks down too much above a certain magnification regardless of the size of your telescope.  Transparency is also a factor that can be affected by humidity, air pollution and thin clouds that you may not be able to see.  My 8”/203 mm often tops out around 180X due to β€œseeing” and transparency issues.   However, under exceptional conditions I have been able to go 300X or higher.

 

 

Baader Hyperian Mark III Clickstop zoom review – About $280
I have an older model Baader Hyperion, but I find the review accurately reflects my experience.
The current model is the Mark IV.
http://www.weasner.c...iece/index.html

 

From the review at the above link:

 

Summary

The mechnical and optical quality of the Baader Planetarium Hyperion Zoom 8-24mm Mark III Eyepiece are excellent. The ease of changing magnifications without needing to swap eyepieces or generally change focus really makes using a high quality zoom eyepiece a joy. It is a necessity if you frequently allow others to look through your telescope.

 

The OPT product page for the Hyperion Zoom 8-24mm Mark III Eyepiece has a lot of additional information about the eyepiece, including specifications, so check that out if you want to learn more.

 

This zoom eyepiece will get used a lot in the observatory, especially when I have visitors. And it will be a tremendous asset for use at star parties.

 

 

 

Edge HD review

https://www.cloudyni...ehd-8-sct-r2336


Edited by aeajr, 11 January 2018 - 01:21 PM.


#15 jallbery

jallbery

    Vanguard

  • *****
  • Posts: 2480
  • Joined: 01 Nov 2015
  • Loc: Southeast Michigan

Posted 11 January 2018 - 12:42 PM

 

EX 82 30 and the Baader Hyperion Zoom would be my recommendations.  If, after a while you feel the need for the ES 82 24 or something else, you can add it later, but Alice seems happy with hers.  

 

The FL will be 2032 mm

 

the 30 mm 82 will give you 67X and 1.22 degree FOV for your low power wide field.

 

A 24 mm 82 would give you  85X and .98 degree FOV      Some would say that is too close but if you do a lot of large DSO viewing you may want this.

 

The Zoom will give you 85X to 255X, but you will likely use it mostly in the 112 to 255 range.  That is where I spend the most time with my BHZ.

 

I have both the Celestron 24 to 8 and the Baader Hyperion 24-8 zooms. 

If you are on a tight budget, get the Celestron and a 2X barlow.  (combination can be around $100)

If you have a richer budget get the Baader Hyperion Mark IV with the bundled 2.25X barlow package.  Will take you to 337X ( $380)

http://agenaastro.co...-eyepieces.html

 

  • With a zoom, the eyepiece seems to disappear as you just move in and out at will, no swapping, no thinking about eyepiece changes
  • I never expected the zoom eyepiece to become my primary eyepiece, but it has.
  • The Celestron 8-24 zoom is good and comparable to my Plossl eyepieces ($65)
  • The Baader Hyperion is great and comparable to my Explore Scientific eyepieces ( $289)
  • Watching doubles split as I rotate the barrel is wonderful
  • One filter serves over a wide range of magnifications, no screwing and unscrewing to try other eyepieces
  • Moving smoothly from and between small changes in magnification helps when seeing is not the best
  • I am always working at the optimum magnification for this target.
  • Sharing the view with others is easier, especially in my manual tracking Dob - I hand it over at low mag so it stays in the view longer.  They zoom back in to whatever magnification works best for them.
  • My eyepiece case has been greatly simplified
  • Kids love the zoom

 

Ed and others love the zoom.  I'm less a fan.  Here's why...

  • The eye relief is short for my tastes.  [Note: this criticism was based on a website that reported the relief as 11-13mm; this may be for an older version of the eyepiece, or simply a mistake.   Ed says the relief is 19mm on the short end.  If that is correct, this criticism no longer stands.]
  • At the short (8mm) end, I don't care it has a 68-degree field-- I'd just as soon it be less (on a tracking mount).   So I get 68 degrees where I don't want it, and 50 degrees where I would want 68.   Of course, this is inevitable for a zoom-- you aren't going to make changing diameter fieldstop-- but it doesn't mean I like it.
  • The zoom range is not optimal for an F/10 SCT: 8mm just isn't enough magnification when conditions are good-- I want something a bit shorter.   Yes, there is a dedicated barlow, but that just adds more elements and ups the price.  
  • On the long (24mm) end, the view offered by the Hyp zoom is matched or bettered by a 25mm plossl, and the plossl has better eye relief.
  • So while the 8mm-24mm range sounds appealing, the lack of utility at the 24mm end means it is more like an 8mm-18mm zoom for me, and I still need a barlow (which I don't like to use, particularly with eyepieces that weigh in at 13 oz), or a shorter FL eyepiece.

Obviously, YMMV.

 

I have the 8-24mm Celestron-- It currently serves as a dustplug on my 90mm F/11.1 refractor.   It isn't bad...  I just prefer other eyepieces.   I know the Baader gets good reviews, but it just doesn't seem to be a good fit for me.  I could sell the zoom, but it cost me virtually nothing (was included with a scope and mount that was purchased at a bargain price), and I might want it someday as travel eyepiece.  Thus far, though, it hasn't earned a place in the eyepiece case.


Edited by jallbery, 11 January 2018 - 02:16 PM.


#16 acegator25

acegator25

    Lift Off

  • -----
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 11
  • Joined: 09 Jan 2018

Posted 11 January 2018 - 12:48 PM

Thanks for all of the suggestions... not lying but some of this is still way over my head
I believe based on the awesome feedback in the thread this would be the best stating point and a wide range of views 

 

Baader Quicklock for 2” diagonal
Celestron 2” Diagonal to replace the 1.25 stock
Baader Hyperion 8-24mm zoom 1.25/2” – reduces complexity a bit with the 9 year old less EP’s.. 
ES 82* 30mm
ES 68* 40mm
Celestron 2.5x Barlow 2”


  • aeajr likes this

#17 amzking

amzking

    Viking 1

  • -----
  • Posts: 658
  • Joined: 12 Nov 2017
  • Loc: Space Coast, Florida

Posted 11 January 2018 - 12:58 PM

Thanks for all of the suggestions... not lying but some of this is still way over my head
I believe based on the awesome feedback in the thread this would be the best stating point and a wide range of views

Baader Quicklock for 2” diagonal
Celestron 2” Diagonal to replace the 1.25 stock
Baader Hyperion 8-24mm zoom 1.25/2” – reduces complexity a bit with the 9 year old less EP’s..
ES 82* 30mm
ES 68* 40mm
Celestron 2.5x Barlow 2”

The FOV for the two ES EPs you mentioned are quite close. Others will probably jump in with actual numbers here, but you may be duplicating things a bit. Of course, bear in mind I am relatively new at this too.

(Edit: you are not duplicating things with magnification obviously, it is the fields of view that are similar.)

The field of view on the 24 focal length on the zoom is low. (Edit – after looking through the 82Β° field of view, it is disappointingly lower). I would get the ES 82* 24 to use at that range. It is spectacular. Then pick one of the others for wider views. That way you will use the zoom mostly at 20mm and below.


Edited by amzking, 11 January 2018 - 03:57 PM.

  • aeajr likes this

#18 aeajr

aeajr

    Voyager 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 12657
  • Joined: 26 Jun 2015
  • Loc: Long Island, New York, USA

Posted 11 January 2018 - 01:21 PM

 

 

snip...

 

  • With a zoom, the eyepiece seems to disappear as you just move in and out at will, no swapping, no thinking about eyepiece changes
  • I never expected the zoom eyepiece to become my primary eyepiece, but it has.
  • The Celestron 8-24 zoom is good and comparable to my Plossl eyepieces ($65)
  • The Baader Hyperion is great and comparable to my Explore Scientific eyepieces ( $289)
  • Watching doubles split as I rotate the barrel is wonderful
  • One filter serves over a wide range of magnifications, no screwing and unscrewing to try other eyepieces
  • Moving smoothly from and between small changes in magnification helps when seeing is not the best
  • I am always working at the optimum magnification for this target.
  • Sharing the view with others is easier, especially in my manual tracking Dob - I hand it over at low mag so it stays in the view longer.  They zoom back in to whatever magnification works best for them.
  • My eyepiece case has been greatly simplified
  • Kids love the zoom

 

Ed and others love the zoom.  I'm less a fan.  Here's why...

  • The eye relief is short for my tastes.  
  • At the short (8mm) end, I don't care it has a 68-degree field-- I'd just as soon it be less (on a tracking mount).   So I get 68 degrees where I don't want it, and 50 degrees where I would want 68.   Of course, this is inevitable for a zoom-- you aren't going to make changing diameter fieldstop-- but it doesn't mean I like it.
  • The zoom range is not optimal for an F/10 SCT: 8mm just isn't enough magnification when conditions are good-- I want something a bit shorter.   Yes, there is a dedicated barlow, but that just adds more elements and ups the price.  
  • On the long (24mm) end, the view offered by the Hyp zoom is matched or bettered by a 25mm plossl, and the plossl has better eye relief.
  • So while the 8mm-24mm range sounds appealing, the lack of utility at the 24mm end means it is more like an 8mm-18mm zoom for me, and I still need a barlow (which I don't like to use, particularly with eyepieces that weigh in at 13 oz), or a shorter FL eyepiece.

Obviously, YMMV.

 

I have the 8-24mm Celestron-- It currently serves as a dustplug on my 90mm F/11.1 refractor.   It isn't bad...  I just prefer other eyepieces.   I know the Baader gets good reviews, but it just doesn't seem to be a good fit for me.  I could sell the zoom, but it cost me virtually nothing (was included with a scope and mount that was purchased at a bargain price), and I might want it someday as travel eyepiece.  Thus far, though, it hasn't earned a place in the eyepiece case.

 

These are always interesting discussions because we all have different approaches to how we like to observe.   No one is right and no one is wrong.  Just different preferences.

 

Hyperion Zoom Specs
Focal Length 8-24mm

Eye Relief (Designed) 19mm ER at 8mm FL - 16mm ER at 24mm FL

 

The eye relief is 16 to 19 mm.   You were concerned about that.   What would you recommend?  I consider that quite good and have used it with and without glasses.   The eye relief on the ES 82 8.8 ( I have this one)  is only 14 mm.   Would that also be eliminated?

 

 

I do agree that the zoom's greatest utility is in the 18 to 8 mm range.  I do use the 20 to 24 but not as much.  I use my the low power wide eyepieces for finding and exploring larger targets in the 25 to 40 mm range.   In this case the recommended are the ES 82 degree eyepieces.

 

When I switch to the zoom I am looking to optimize magnification which is usually in the 18 to 8 mm range.  I drop back to 24 mm when I am handing off to someone else and let them zoom in to whatever mag works best for them.   With a tracking mount I find the FOV works well.  Even at 24 mm the FOV would be almost .6 degrees.   You can put the entire full moon in that with room to spare.

 

An additional eyepiece shorter than 8 mm might be a good addition for later.  The ES82 6.7 is excellent.  Or the Meade 5000 82 degree 5.5. I have both of these though I rarely use them.   I prefer to barlow the zoom.  

 

 

Some like barlows and some don't.    As noted in my post above, in my opinion, the zoom range for the this scope very good for this scope.  I use this zoom in my 5" GoTo Mak with a 1900 mm FL and find it works well.

 

 

On those nights that you can use more than 255X you can use a shorter eyepiece or standard barlow.  For that 8" EdgeHD, attaching a 1.3 to 1.5 X barlow cell directly to the zoom gives you an excellent range for this scope and eliminates handling the external barlow.  If the seeing is good enough to offer good views above 255X on a regular basis that 1.3 to 1.5X barlow element can be screwed onto the zoom like a filter and be left there all the time.

 

Clearly zooms are not for everyone.   I like them, some don't.   I have 70 and 82 degree eyepieces from 38 mm to 5.5 mm but BHZ is my main eyepiece in all my scopes. 


Edited by aeajr, 11 January 2018 - 01:33 PM.


#19 Allanbarth1

Allanbarth1

    Skylab

  • -----
  • Posts: 4006
  • Joined: 29 Apr 2016
  • Loc: Central New Jersey

Posted 11 January 2018 - 01:27 PM

​I would go with a 2x Barlow that has a 1.25" adaptor. I have heard mixed reviews with the 2.5x.

 

I have this Barlow and am very happy with it. It comes with a 2' to 1.25" adaptor and I like the performance of it. Also is a compression bands to hold the ep in place instead of the set screws that leave divots in your ep's  Its also very well made in my opinion and for me its a keeper. 


  • havasman likes this

#20 jallbery

jallbery

    Vanguard

  • *****
  • Posts: 2480
  • Joined: 01 Nov 2015
  • Loc: Southeast Michigan

Posted 11 January 2018 - 01:34 PM

Thanks for all of the suggestions... not lying but some of this is still way over my head
I believe based on the awesome feedback in the thread this would be the best stating point and a wide range of views 

 

Baader Quicklock for 2” diagonal
Celestron 2” Diagonal to replace the 1.25 stock
Baader Hyperion 8-24mm zoom 1.25/2” – reduces complexity a bit with the 9 year old less EP’s.. 
ES 82* 30mm
ES 68* 40mm
Celestron 2.5x Barlow 2”

Barlows optically work best with shorter focal length eyepieces (using barlows with long-focal length eyepieces often leads to vignetting and other undesirable side effects).    Furthermore, the ES 82 30 and ES 68 40 are HUGE eyepieces, and putting them on a Barlow has ergonomic complications.  

 

Assuming you aren't using a barlow with the 30mm or 40mm, you have a huge gap in field of view between the these two big guns and your zoom.

 

The 30mm 82 and 40mm 68 really show you much the same true field of view.   You get more magnification with the 30mm.  You get a little more field and brighter view with the 40mm.   There are arguments to have both (I have both a 38mm 70-degree and 31mm 82), but you don't need both to start.   I'd start with the 40mm 68, and add either the 28mm 68 or the 24mm 82 if I were you.   Why the 40mm?  It cost less (although the difference is nominal),  has the widest true field, and gives you the brightest view for detecting faint objects.   You can always switch to the next eyepiece for more magnification.


  • amzking likes this

#21 jallbery

jallbery

    Vanguard

  • *****
  • Posts: 2480
  • Joined: 01 Nov 2015
  • Loc: Southeast Michigan

Posted 11 January 2018 - 01:49 PM

 

Eye Relief (Designed) 19mm ER at 8mm FL - 16mm ER at 24mm FL

 

 

The website I looked it up on said 11-13mm.  If it is wrong, my apologies, and I take back the above criticism.  FWIW, I tried baader's site first, but could not find the eye relief specified.

 

Baader is on what, its fourth version of the eyepiece.  Maybe the 11-13mm number was  from an older version.  Maybe it was just wrong. 

 

You may sell me on one yet, particularly if that 19mm is actual usable eye relief.  

 

Given the vast number of SCTs out there, you'd think there'd be a market for a 5-12mm "Planetary" zoom maxing out with a 60-degree field and offering 20mm of eye relief.   I'd buy one of those if it could provide "Dual ED" quality views...


  • aeajr likes this

#22 havasman

havasman

    Cosmos

  • ****-
  • Posts: 9837
  • Joined: 04 Aug 2013
  • Loc: Dallas, Texas

Posted 11 January 2018 - 01:56 PM

In your 8" Edge HD the eyepieces will produce

ES68 40        51x       80arc' TFOV       4.0mm exit pupil

ES82 30        68x       73arc' TFOV       3.0mm exit pupil

And that is a real difference that should have value for your observing.

 

Not a fan of them for my own use, I agree that the Baader zoom fits you need very nicely. I like that development in your thinking.

 

But I'm going to propose you skip the Barlow for now in favor of a GOOD nebular filter set. The Orion Ultrablock Narrowband UHC is a best buy that will take advantage of the larger exit pupil of the 40mm. Add an O-III filter like the Thousand Oaks and you really raise your capacity to see a wide range of objects that would otherwise elude you. A Barlow will not do that and you have the magnification range it will provide covered with the zoom. Nebular filters work by removing light frequencies from the beam transmitted to your eye and the brighter 4mm beam of the 40mm eyepiece will be valuable on dimmer nebulae (and other, unfiltered objects) as the transmitted light will be brighter. Removing those frequencies, BTW, increases the visually apparent contrast of the object you're trying to observe.

 

I think it is because telescope sellers often bundle a marginal quality Barlow in their beginner packages that many beginners think they're necessities. They're not. They're accessories best used for specific purposes that I don't see you needing now.

 

Regardless, very nice telescope and good thinking on your part. I hope you and your family enjoy it for decades and wear it out observing with it!


Edited by havasman, 11 January 2018 - 02:01 PM.

  • amzking likes this

#23 jallbery

jallbery

    Vanguard

  • *****
  • Posts: 2480
  • Joined: 01 Nov 2015
  • Loc: Southeast Michigan

Posted 11 January 2018 - 02:10 PM

Also, I'm confused by your approach to a diagonal and what Baader "quicklock" product you hope to use. 

 

There are lots of SCT users who swear by the 2" Baader clicklock visual back.

https://agenaastro.c...sct-thread.html

 

You need a 2" refractor-style diagonal to go with this visual back.   The Celestron XLT 2" diagonal is an SCT diagonal that does not work with a visual back.   There is a cheaper Celestron 2" mirror diagonal that is sold with the 2" eyepiece kit that includes both a refractor nose and a SCT nose, but it isn't normally sold separately (although you can buy it that way on eBay).



#24 aeajr

aeajr

    Voyager 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 12657
  • Joined: 26 Jun 2015
  • Loc: Long Island, New York, USA

Posted 11 January 2018 - 03:10 PM

2" on this scope.

 

I don't have an Edge HD.  I thought these came with 2" focusers but I can't find a spec.  Perhaps not.

https://www.celestro...dgehd-telescope

 

As this is a GoTo mount, I don't know how important a 2" eyepiece would be. Certainly nice to have, but for many of us with manual scopes, the 2" is there as an adjunct to the finder scope or to help with tracking.  Of course there are some DSOs that are more than 1 degree wide but not that many.    I ran an observing list one night which had over 600 targets of all kinds across the entire sky.   I think there were 10 that were 1 degree or wider.

 

In this scope a 24 mm ES 68 degree would give you 84X and .8 degree FOV.   In the 1.25" focuser that would likely be the widest you could go, but that would handle the vast majority of targets. This was on your original eyepiece candidate list.

https://agenaastro.c...iece-24mm.htmlΒ 

 

Others will have to comment on how important the 2" would be for you.   Is it needed right away or is this something to be considered for later, directing these funds elsewhere.

 

I am not providing advice here, just raising a question.   I believe in the first post you called this your NEXT scope.  It is possible you already have a wide field scope?  If that is the case you might just wish to reserve these few wide targets for that scope.

 

Just a thought.  Others will advize.


Edited by aeajr, 11 January 2018 - 03:12 PM.


#25 amzking

amzking

    Viking 1

  • -----
  • Posts: 658
  • Joined: 12 Nov 2017
  • Loc: Space Coast, Florida

Posted 11 January 2018 - 03:19 PM

In your 8" Edge HD the eyepieces will produce
ES68 40        51x       80arc' TFOV       4.0mm exit pupil
ES82 30        68x       73arc' TFOV       3.0mm exit pupil
And that is a real difference that should have value for your observing.
 
Not a fan of them for my own use, I agree that the Baader zoom fits you need very nicely. I like that development in your thinking.
 
But I'm going to propose you skip the Barlow for now in favor of a GOOD nebular filter set. The Orion Ultrablock Narrowband UHC is a best buy that will take advantage of the larger exit pupil of the 40mm. Add an O-III filter like the Thousand Oaks and you really raise your capacity to see a wide range of objects that would otherwise elude you. A Barlow will not do that and you have the magnification range it will provide covered with the zoom. Nebular filters work by removing light frequencies from the beam transmitted to your eye and the brighter 4mm beam of the 40mm eyepiece will be valuable on dimmer nebulae (and other, unfiltered objects) as the transmitted light will be brighter. Removing those frequencies, BTW, increases the visually apparent contrast of the object you're trying to observe.
 
I think it is because telescope sellers often bundle a marginal quality Barlow in their beginner packages that many beginners think they're necessities. They're not. They're accessories best used for specific purposes that I don't see you needing now.
 
Regardless, very nice telescope and good thinking on your part. I hope you and your family enjoIy it for decades and wear it out observing with it!


I knew someone would come along with actual numbers to back up what I was saying! 

 

Yes, the two EPs have similar field of views, and I am not as well versed in exit pupil yet, but I believe the higher exit pupil will make things brighter (if I am remembering exit pupil characteristics correctly.) If I had to do it over again I would probably choose the 40 over the 30, but I didn't feel like messing with returning a product.  I will probably end up with a 40 someday anyway!

 

I too do not see why a barlow is at all necessary.  I have a great range with what I have and I do not see going below 8mm in my usual seeing conditions.  Now, I have not done much planetary viewing yet, so that may change in the future, but if it does I will add a high quality (probably ES) EP at the below-8 range.

 

And I LOVE the idea of a good filter, that is next on my list.  The DGM NPB is another one that gets great reviews and at $150 is a bargain for a 2" size.  Start with some sort of nebula filter (not a light pollution filter) and add an O-III as the next one.




CNers have asked about a donation box for Cloudy Nights over the years, so here you go. Donation is not required by any means, so please enjoy your stay.


Recent Topics






Cloudy Nights LLC
Cloudy Nights Sponsor: Astronomics