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11 Hours on M42

astrophotography beginner dslr refractor
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#1 SuperJustin

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Posted 12 January 2018 - 12:52 AM

Alright last one for a few weeks.. The stacked file was my attempt to integrate the core from the shorter subs. DSS couldn't stack properly since the exposure settings were so wildly different so I'm interested to see what you guys think!

98x 300s/1600iso & 170x 60s/200iso

Linear File for download..

https://www.dropbox....-Stack.tif?dl=0

 

get.jpg?insecure

Mobile: http://astrob.in/329112/0/

 


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#2 Spata

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Posted 12 January 2018 - 02:04 PM

Looks great as-is but I'll do my best to make it unrecognizable.smiley_abused.gif


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#3 SuperJustin

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Posted 12 January 2018 - 02:17 PM

Looks great as-is but I'll do my best to make it unrecognizable.attachicon.gifsmiley_abused.gif

haha lets see it! 



#4 Spata

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Posted 12 January 2018 - 03:04 PM

M42-Layer-Stack32.jpg


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#5 Merk

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Posted 12 January 2018 - 04:06 PM

Very nice data and tracking.waytogo.gif

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#6 droe

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Posted 12 January 2018 - 09:28 PM

So I had some more fun with your data and removed most of the stars. What do you think?

 

 

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#7 mikewayne3

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Posted 12 January 2018 - 09:43 PM

this is my go

I wish I could get this much data

 

Mike

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#8 SuperJustin

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Posted 13 January 2018 - 11:33 AM

So I had some more fun with your data and removed most of the stars. What do you think?

that looks awesome!



#9 Aaron_tragle

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Posted 15 January 2018 - 04:29 PM

Here is my go! I tried to do a starless version, but it didn't look nearly as good as I thought it would. Great data and fun to play with!

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Edited by Aaron_tragle, 15 January 2018 - 04:30 PM.

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#10 Andrés85

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Posted 17 January 2018 - 09:52 PM

Hi Super Justin I was trying to process the 8 hours data on Orion Nebule on Ps and this is my best version. Thanks for share this amaizing imagen, I hope some day make one imagen like this.
Edwin from Costa Rica.

 

med_gallery_265032_8770_236418.jpg


Edited by Andrés85, 18 January 2018 - 08:01 PM.

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#11 SuperJustin

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Posted 18 January 2018 - 09:38 PM

Hi Super Justin I was trying to process the 8 hours data on Orion Nebule on Ps and this is my best version. Thanks for share this amaizing imagen, I hope some day make one imagen like this.
Edwin from Costa Rica.

 

med_gallery_265032_8770_236418.jpg

Awesome picture thank you for sharing!



#12 AndyBooth

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Posted 19 January 2018 - 11:38 AM

M42-AB.jpg My quick attempt in Startools.

Thanks for the data to try on!


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#13 CaptG

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Posted 19 January 2018 - 12:02 PM

I have 20 exp each of 2 and 3 min shots (jpg/raw) with canon 4ti thru 10”lx200, first night after getting ag zwo 1290mc to work, used these with darks, flats and bias in dss but get a terrible result, can see no nebulosity. So have to figure out how to use dss, was so focused on getting ag to work didn’t do a drift alignment, so polar alignment was not spot on and didn’t rotate camera to catch wings of nebula, the focal reducer doesn’t allow a good wide shot. I was surprised by the detail in the single shots so excited about what will look like when properly stacked. And the shots posted here just pump me up that much more. Photo attached is only 36kb so may be poor rep of actual single shots.

 

78ECF1BC-8076-485E-9E4E-C1128259D84A.jpeg

 


Edited by CaptG, 19 January 2018 - 12:03 PM.

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#14 SuperJustin

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Posted 19 January 2018 - 01:55 PM

I have 20 exp each of 2 and 3 min shots (jpg/raw) with canon 4ti thru 10”lx200, first night after getting ag zwo 1290mc to work, used these with darks, flats and bias in dss but get a terrible result, can see no nebulosity. So have to figure out how to use dss, was so focused on getting ag to work didn’t do a drift alignment, so polar alignment was not spot on and didn’t rotate camera to catch wings of nebula, the focal reducer doesn’t allow a good wide shot. I was surprised by the detail in the single shots so excited about what will look like when properly stacked. And the shots posted here just pump me up that much more. Photo attached is only 36kb so may be poor rep of actual single shots.

 

attachicon.gif78ECF1BC-8076-485E-9E4E-C1128259D84A.jpeg

Hey thanks for sharing. I would love to help if I can but keep in mind I just started in the last 9 months or so.. I really want to make some short vids for youtube talking about some of these common issues I had to figure out! Soo couple questions that jump out is...

 

Are you using different calibration frames Dark/Flats for the different exposures? Also note while you can have a library of calibration frames the ambient temp will determine if they will be of value to your subs! Anything more then about 5 degrees difference +/- will not looks so good after stacking. Either too much or too little correction! It is totally good to combine different sets of data from different nights but if they are wildly different such as a 2min sub at 200 iso and 5min subs at 800 iso DSS will probably mess it up.

 

Might be a silly question but are you attempting to stack the jpegs with the raw files as well? They will not be compatible. The camera will tinker with a few things before saving the JPEG images RAW files is all you want!

 

Also note the default settings in DSS work generally. For a DSLR don't reset the black point to 0. Use average method for stacks of lights less then 10. Kappa Sigma at 2.5 if you have 11 or more. This feature does wonders for removing airplanes shooting stars and other anomalies that like to ruin subs. Better than deleting them!

 

Most important step in the end is after the stacked file is displayed in DSS be sure to save it without the auto stretching DSS will apply. When you first open the stacked file it will be linear and not cool! That's when the magic happens! You will only be able to stretch the data so far so if your exposures are lets say closer to 25% your stacked file will still be very dim after stretching max without introducing image destroying noise. My solution was to expose at least 50% sometimes maybe 65%. This makes it much easier to tease out the nebulosity! The longest part of imaging for me is framing and then finding the balance of exposure time that will be a happy median for imaging throughout the night (factoring for the lower/higher exposure times depending on the moon cycle).. Maybe 3min subs are great for the first few hours but once the moon is set I could be capable of 5mins... Soo my happy median maybe being 4min subs. Be careful of overexposing but underexposing can also turn the whole batch of data into a dim waste of time and make you think there's a flaw in your ways!

 

What program do you use for autoguiding?

 

The subs should almost look terrible if exposed properly. I'm at work now but give me like an hour and I'll link what my subs looked like from M42!

 

I think you got it man just need more exposure time!


Edited by SuperJustin, 19 January 2018 - 01:56 PM.


#15 SuperJustin

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Posted 19 January 2018 - 01:55 PM

attachicon.gifM42-AB.jpgMy quick attempt in Startools.

Thanks for the data to try on!

Beautiful thanks for sharing!



#16 SuperJustin

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Posted 19 January 2018 - 03:18 PM

I have 20 exp each of 2 and 3 min shots (jpg/raw) with canon 4ti thru 10”lx200, first night after getting ag zwo 1290mc to work, used these with darks, flats and bias in dss but get a terrible result, can see no nebulosity. So have to figure out how to use dss, was so focused on getting ag to work didn’t do a drift alignment, so polar alignment was not spot on and didn’t rotate camera to catch wings of nebula, the focal reducer doesn’t allow a good wide shot. I was surprised by the detail in the single shots so excited about what will look like when properly stacked. And the shots posted here just pump me up that much more. Photo attached is only 36kb so may be poor rep of actual single shots.

 

attachicon.gif78ECF1BC-8076-485E-9E4E-C1128259D84A.jpeg

 

 

 

I have 20 exp each of 2 and 3 min shots (jpg/raw) with canon 4ti thru 10”lx200, first night after getting ag zwo 1290mc to work, used these with darks, flats and bias in dss but get a terrible result, can see no nebulosity. So have to figure out how to use dss, was so focused on getting ag to work didn’t do a drift alignment, so polar alignment was not spot on and didn’t rotate camera to catch wings of nebula, the focal reducer doesn’t allow a good wide shot. I was surprised by the detail in the single shots so excited about what will look like when properly stacked. And the shots posted here just pump me up that much more. Photo attached is only 36kb so may be poor rep of actual single shots.

 

attachicon.gif78ECF1BC-8076-485E-9E4E-C1128259D84A.jpeg

Hey thanks for sharing. I would love to help if I can but keep in mind I just started in the last 9 months or so.. I really want to make some short vids for youtube talking about some of these common issues I had to figure out! Soo couple questions that jump out is...

 

Are you using different calibration frames Dark/Flats for the different exposures? Also note while you can have a library of calibration frames the ambient temp will determine if they will be of value to your subs! Anything more then about 5 degrees difference +/- will not looks so good after stacking. Either too much or too little correction! It is totally good to combine different sets of data from different nights but if they are wildly different such as a 2min sub at 200 iso and 5min subs at 800 iso DSS will probably mess it up.

 

Might be a silly question but are you attempting to stack the jpegs with the raw files as well? They will not be compatible. The camera will tinker with a few things before saving the JPEG images RAW files is all you want!

 

Also note the default settings in DSS work generally. For a DSLR don't reset the black point to 0. Use average method for stacks of lights less then 10. Kappa Sigma at 2.5 if you have 11 or more. This feature does wonders for removing airplanes shooting stars and other anomalies that like to ruin subs. Better than deleting them!

 

Most important step in the end is after the stacked file is displayed in DSS be sure to save it without the auto stretching DSS will apply. When you first open the stacked file it will be linear and not cool! That's when the magic happens! You will only be able to stretch the data so far so if your exposures are lets say closer to 25% your stacked file will still be very dim after stretching max without introducing image destroying noise. My solution was to expose at least 50% sometimes maybe 65%. This makes it much easier to tease out the nebulosity! The longest part of imaging for me is framing and then finding the balance of exposure time that will be a happy median for imaging throughout the night (factoring for the lower/higher exposure times depending on the moon cycle).. Maybe 3min subs are great for the first few hours but once the moon is set I could be capable of 5mins... Soo my happy median maybe being 4min subs. Be careful of overexposing but underexposing can also turn the whole batch of data into a dim waste of time and make you think there's a flaw in your ways!

 

What program do you use for autoguiding?

 

The subs should almost look terrible if exposed properly. I'm at work now but give me like an hour and I'll link what my subs looked like from M42!

 

I think you got it man just need more exposure time!

 

M42_LIGHT_300s_1600iso_+73f00049.jpg

This was from my first attempt which you can see the results of overexposing to get the nebulosity which made me lose Trapezium in the core.

To get the core back I took a few hours of much shorter subs in the end I combined them both which took some effort since the settings were so wildly different (I literally only just used the core from the shorter subs everything else was better captured in the longer subs). I don't think my camera would have been able to capture all the detail and not over expose the core so this was my solution! Most targets might not need this though in fact this is the only target so far I needed different sub exposure to really capture all the detail!

 

M42-DETAIL_LIGHT_60s_200iso_20171201-04h49m02s336ms.jpg

 

Here is a link to one of the full raw files from a 5min sub if you want to check it out:

 

https://www.dropbox....f00049.CR2?dl=0



#17 nyairman

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Posted 19 January 2018 - 03:38 PM

Justin your data on this is M42 incredible! Thank you again for sharing. I am still a newbie on astroprocessing but thought I would put up another attempt at it. Star Tools and Corel Photo-Paint X5 was used.

If anybody is interested, Corel Photo-Paint is not what is normally heard of in the processing world. It comes as a package deal in Corel Draw's graphic suite. It is a very powerful program and has some features that PS doesn't. PS is however, better at some things. I only use PS for a couple of things but, CPP has done everything that I have needed over the many years of using it. Thanks again for posting the stacks!

 

 

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#18 SuperJustin

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Posted 19 January 2018 - 03:42 PM

Justin your data on this is M42 incredible! Thank you again for sharing. I am still a newbie on astroprocessing but thought I would put up another attempt at it. Star Tools and Corel Photo-Paint X5 was used.

If anybody is interested, Corel Photo-Paint is not what is normally heard of in the processing world. It comes as a package deal in Corel Draw's graphic suite. It is a very powerful program and has some features that PS doesn't. PS is however, better at some things. I only use PS for a couple of things but, CPP has done everything that I have needed over the many years of using it. Thanks again for posting the stacks!

This looks amazing thanks for sharing! I'm still one big noob but a dedicated one haha.. I'll have to check out Corel Draws thanks for the tip!



#19 CaptG

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Posted 19 January 2018 - 04:08 PM

Thanks for the advice, how do I not save the image in DSS without the stretching? I use phd2 for guiding and bye for camera cap. Also I notice on DSS after I stack and make adjustments the pic on the DSS screen looks pale but decent, after saving and opening the tiff image, the image displayed is different, very dark.


Edited by CaptG, 19 January 2018 - 04:11 PM.

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#20 SuperJustin

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Posted 19 January 2018 - 04:38 PM

Thanks for the advice, how do I not save the image in DSS without the stretching? I use phd2 for guiding and bye for camera cap. Also I notice on DSS after I stack and make adjustments the pic on the DSS screen looks pale but decent, after saving and opening the tiff image, the image displayed is different, very dark.

Ok cool I use both those programs too! So I'm sure you noticed the "autosave" file DSS makes which is basically just trash since it has the DSS auto edits. I don't remember exactly off the top of my head what it says specifically but once stacked no need to adjust at all in DSS just click save file or save image whatever it is called and in the next window that pops up make sure to select embed changes but don't apply. I'm sure the verbiage is different but you will see it! The stacked file will be SUPER dark if you did it right but remember all that detail is still there in the pixel values so it will come right back out. I imagine stretching the image like changing the range of the scale.. example Red 14 Green 12 Blue 15 on an 8bit scale of 0-255 would not look different to our eyes. If we change the scale to (complete exaggeration for point) say 6-20 NOW we have something with very noticeable differences!  

 

Quick tip I found super helpful in PS.. Take the stacked file duplicate layer equalize the layer to see all the possible detail in the image.. crop what you want to show (this will take out some of the data from the histogram that you don't want anyways and make it easier to process). Delete the equalized layer and stretch the image until you start to see noise and then maybe step back a bit. Once your happy (this part I always need to do several times to find what's best) there is a trick that saved my life! Open levels and double click the black point eyedropper.. set the RGB values to 35 for all three in the menu and click ok. Now make sure the eyedropper is at 31 pixel average and click the darkest point on the image you can find. You can click several times around the image to make sure you got the darkest spot. In the end this will do two things.. Delete evil light pollution and neutralize the space background which will do wonders for making an image you will be proud of! I usually need to do this part before I can tell if I over stretched!



#21 G. Hatfield

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Posted 19 January 2018 - 05:40 PM

Here is my go at it.  I tried to bring out the dust on this one using exponential transform (https://www.dropbox...._stars.wmv?dl=0).  For steps using PI, see the name of the file.  Thanks for posting!

 

George

Attached Thumbnails

  • M42-Layer-Stack crop dbe pmcc bn arcsinh hdrmt pixmath et2x2 tgvdmmask selcol focmag160pc lincont70pc colfilter stcol darkencenter lheq.jpg

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#22 Gvs

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Posted 20 January 2018 - 11:17 PM

Excellent data.

 

Here is the Gimp result.

 

gallery_199774_5050_118287.jpg


Edited by Gvs, 21 January 2018 - 07:58 PM.

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