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RisingTech 287M Test Results

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#1 Dragon Man

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Posted 13 January 2018 - 01:21 AM

Paul (lollywater) sent down his Rising Tech 287M for me to test out for him in my dark skies, and because I have more time than Paul. He's a busy boy.

 

Rather than just take screenshots of the 287M view alone I also took identical screen shots of the same objects using the same settings with a 224 colour so there was something to compare the 287M to.

 

I didn't use an IR/UV filter with the 287 in these images as there is no need to. It's Mono.
But I did take screenshots with and without the IR/UV filter for my own interest. (without the IR/UV filter is better)

 

To make sure the test was pretty hard on the camera I used an ED80 instead of the big 6 inch refractor or the SN10 Astrograph.
All images are single frame, no stacking.

Here's the results:

 

First a simple bright object - M42

 

M42.jpg

 

 

Then a medium bright object - Carina Nebula

 

Carina-Nebula.jpg

 

continued . . . 


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#2 Dragon Man

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Posted 13 January 2018 - 01:24 AM

Then a slightly fainter object - NGC 253

(note the introduction of Amp Glow at 20 seconds in the 224, and none in the 287M)

NGC-253.jpg

 

 

and then a bunch of Screenshots with just the 287M:

 

OMEGA CENTAURI

 

Omega-Centauri.jpg

 

 

CENTAURUS 'A' GALAXY

 

Centaurus-A.jpg

 

 

SOMBRERO GALAXY

 

Sombrero.jpg

 

 

continued . . . 


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#3 Dragon Man

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Posted 13 January 2018 - 01:27 AM

M1 CRAB NEBULA

 

M1.jpg

 

 

M83 SOUTHERN PINWHEEL GALAXY

 

M83.jpg

 

 

And some people have said they are having trouble stacking in the RisingSky software.

Here is a stacked image of NGC 253 to show it works:

 

NGC-253-stacked-version.jpg

 

 

and the settings I used:

 

Stacking-settings.jpg


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#4 Dragon Man

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Posted 13 January 2018 - 03:59 AM

This is the camera being tested:

 

The Mono Version G3M287M: https://es.aliexpres...2834964898.html



#5 DSO_Viewer

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Posted 13 January 2018 - 12:18 PM

This is the camera being tested:

 

The Mono Version G3M287M: https://es.aliexpres...2834964898.html

Great comparison tests Ken. I am noticing more detail in the 224 camera model even though it is color. Why do you not prefer the UV/IR blocking filter since you can clearly see tighter stars in the 224 images than the 287m images? It would have been nice to see an image using the UV/IR filter with your 287m camera to see how much the star bloat would have been reduced.

 

Steve



#6 Dragon Man

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Posted 14 January 2018 - 06:23 AM

 

This is the camera being tested:

 

The Mono Version G3M287M: https://es.aliexpres...2834964898.html

Great comparison tests Ken. I am noticing more detail in the 224 camera model even though it is color. Why do you not prefer the UV/IR blocking filter since you can clearly see tighter stars in the 224 images than the 287m images? It would have been nice to see an image using the UV/IR filter with your 287m camera to see how much the star bloat would have been reduced.

 

Steve

 

You are correct Steve, the stars are slightly bloated in the 287 pics because I didn't use the IR/UV filter, but when I used the filter some of the fainter nebula/Galaxy arms disappear.

 

I prefer to see more Nebula or galaxy Arms at the expense of slightly bloated stars.

I'm not doing Astrophotography so absolute pinpoint stars don't matter too much.

 

I could solve both problems by using the filter and doing longer exposures, but that defeats the whole idea of 'Near-Live'.

That is getting back to Astrophotography again. 

I want to see an object as fast as possible.

 

Here's two comparisons between with and without the IR/UV filter on the 287:

 

Carina Nebula

IMX287M IR filter comparison.gif

 

Continued in next post . . . 


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#7 Dragon Man

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Posted 14 January 2018 - 06:24 AM

and 

 

NGC 253

 

IMX287M IR filter comparison2.gif


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#8 mclewis1

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Posted 14 January 2018 - 09:51 AM

Ken, Wonderful comparison.



#9 Astrojedi

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Posted 14 January 2018 - 11:12 AM

Ken,

Nicely done. For galaxies I would not use an IR cut filter with the 224 as you are cutting off a substantial part of the sensor’s response.

I use an Astronomik CLS filter (not CLS-CCD) with the 224 and 385 and works very well for all objects including star clusters and galaxies. (See my ASI385 thread)

(Also why does your color balance with 224 seem off. Reminds me of the magenta my LX2C used to produce before SLL was updated.)

Hiten

Edited by Astrojedi, 14 January 2018 - 11:24 AM.


#10 Dragon Man

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Posted 14 January 2018 - 11:26 AM

Ken,

Nicely done. For galaxies I would not use an IR cut filter with the 224 as you are cutting off a substantial part of the sensor’s response.

I use an Astronomik CLS filter (not CLS-CCD) with the 224 and 385 and works very well for all objects including star clusters. (See my ASI385 thread)

Hiten

I don't use an IR cut filter on Galaxies with the 224.

I even suggest that to others in another thread in here somewhere.

 

The only reason I used one on the 224 in this test is because I forgot to take it off for the Galaxy pics.

But I like it on for Globs and some Nebs, or wherever I want to concentrate on the stars in the view.

Otherwise it comes off.

 

https://www.cloudyni...hout/?p=8300140



#11 Astrojedi

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Posted 14 January 2018 - 03:13 PM

 

Ken,

Nicely done. For galaxies I would not use an IR cut filter with the 224 as you are cutting off a substantial part of the sensor’s response.

I use an Astronomik CLS filter (not CLS-CCD) with the 224 and 385 and works very well for all objects including star clusters. (See my ASI385 thread)

Hiten

I don't use an IR cut filter on Galaxies with the 224.

I even suggest that to others in another thread in here somewhere.

 

The only reason I used one on the 224 in this test is because I forgot to take it off for the Galaxy pics.

But I like it on for Globs and some Nebs, or wherever I want to concentrate on the stars in the view.

Otherwise it comes off.

 

https://www.cloudyni...hout/?p=8300140

 

waytogo.gif



#12 A. Viegas

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Posted 14 January 2018 - 03:51 PM

Hey Ken

Does not really seem like the 287M is really that big a deal over the 224...   Of course you have really dark skies, so someone in heavy LP could probably get better results withthe 287...  your dark skies bias the test greatly!!! grin.gif

 

Al


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#13 CharlesC

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Posted 14 January 2018 - 04:52 PM

Ken, really appreciate the side by side comparison.  The 287 is surprisingly insensitive. 

The sensitivity spec of 287 is more than twice that of 224, but real world use implies its actually worse than the 224.

Very disappointing.  Glad I got to see your results.


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#14 lollywater

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Posted 15 January 2018 - 07:12 AM

I was very disappointed with the 287 so I sent it over to Ken for an experienced assessment. Nice of you to say I am busy person Ken. 

 I am busy on holidays at the moment and no time for observing despite  beautiful clear skies in Adelaide

I suspect no one will be rushing out to buy a 287. Who knows, I may be the only one in the world with a 287... a collector's item.

Paul


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#15 roelb

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Posted 15 January 2018 - 03:25 PM

Paul, can you please sent me a bit of clear skies to Antwerp?

#16 mAnKiNd

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Posted 13 March 2018 - 10:47 PM

Hi, I'm thankful to you as I just came across this thread and I was seriously considering purchasing this sensor in colour based on its amazing sensitivity specs. I would have used it in a vintage f/8 newt I just restored, but it seems that from the tests above, one would be better served by the 224, also considering its significantly lower price, is that still the consensus here? I'm still scratching my head about it..

 

I would also probably be imaging without a UV/IR filter, as the newt will focus all light to the same point...but colour balance might prove tricky, still though, the large pixels would be slightly undersampling with my newt.

 

I also live in a very light-polluted area, so maybe like Al said above this sensor may still be a benefit for me...

 

Cheers smile.gif


Edited by mAnKiNd, 13 March 2018 - 10:57 PM.


#17 Stargazer3236

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Posted 14 March 2018 - 07:49 AM

The 287 is only 0.4 mp? That is not a lot of resolution. I prefer my ASI290MM better.


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#18 mAnKiNd

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Posted 14 March 2018 - 08:13 AM

The 287 is only 0.4 mp? That is not a lot of resolution. I prefer my ASI290MM better.

I could deal with the low rez like countless others have done before us, but only if the high sensitivity in the specs translated into real life! This is really my question and from the results above, it's indicative that this is not the case..?


Edited by mAnKiNd, 14 March 2018 - 08:14 AM.


#19 Adun

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Posted 17 August 2018 - 10:15 PM

I was very disappointed with the 287 so I sent it over to Ken for an experienced assessment. 

I suspect no one will be rushing out to buy a 287. Who knows, I may be the only one in the world with a 287... a collector's item.
Paul

 

Elpajare has one, and he seems much more satisfied then you were, see his test

 

One thing is for sure: you don't have the only one in the world


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#20 elpajare

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Posted 18 August 2018 - 02:18 PM

Extended test:

 

https://www.cloudyni...e-in-4-seconds/



#21 elpajare

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Posted 18 August 2018 - 02:23 PM

I could deal with the low rez like countless others have done before us, but only if the high sensitivity in the specs translated into real life! This is really my question and from the results above, it's indicative that this is not the case..?

It's a new chip and there are more and more tests ...

In the Begining and intermediate imaging section I have published some more examples. Maybe they'll help you get an idea of what you can get with this chip.

 

Unfortunately the rules of this sub-forum do not allow to include this type of images



#22 lollywater

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Posted 26 August 2018 - 06:11 AM

Elpajare has one, and he seems much more satisfied then you were, see his test

 

One thing is for sure: you don't have the only one in the world

Adun,

 I used the 287 once and then sent it over to Ken because my images were very poor on my LX90 (alt/az).It arrived Dec 2 so in January 2018, I think I did have the only one in the world because I bought the first one from Aliexpress and it was then out of stock for a couple of months. Seemed appropriate then but sounds silly now. Mallincam now sells a 287   so there is probably a lot of experience today

I follow Carlos' (Elpajare) posts and learn a lot from his images. I have equipment that he has but his images are always better than mine. I am trying to get a lightweight alt/az grab and go system with a fast scope,sensitive camera and short exposures. I have been happy with C6 hyperstar and the 290 and 224 cameras but cannot get the 287 to come to focus on that scope

Last night ,I got a few images of Centaurus A with the 287 and 290 on my LX90 8". FR was a combo of Meade 6.3 and prostar 0.5 . The 287 was on RisingSky and the 290 was sharpcap so the settings are not the same but as close as I could get. They were 6 x 10 sec exposures. Full moon.

I will try both cameras on the Bresser and alt/az next clear night.

 

287

287 6x10jpeg.jpg

 

290 cropped

290 6x10 crop.jpg

 

Paul


Edited by lollywater, 26 August 2018 - 06:27 AM.

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#23 lollywater

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Posted 26 August 2018 - 07:06 AM

I should add that I have trouble getting decent images on my LX90 . That doesnt help promote the 287. 

This image of Centaurus A was taken a year ago with my ZWO 290 on the C6 hyperstar .It was dark sky and 5x 16sec stack. My images are always so much better on that scope. Not sure why. I wanted to get  a 287 image on the C6 last night but cannot get it to focus.

290 5x16sec 

 290 5x16.jpg

Paul


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#24 mclewis1

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Posted 26 August 2018 - 09:20 AM

Paul,

 

Thanks for the pics. 

 

The Hyperstar setup is usually going to produce better looking images because of the short focal length and the faster f ratio which will usually mean less read noise in the images. The Hyperstar/287 combination should be a frighteningly fast setup ... with exposures down in the low single digits or even sub second on many objects.

 

How are you mounting the ZWO cameras on the Hyperstar? The ZWO cameras have a few different mounting options, and it's entirely possible that there is a substantial difference in the sensor position when mounting the 287 based camera which would prevent it from coming to focus.


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#25 elpajare

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Posted 27 August 2018 - 11:15 AM

Adun,

 I used the 287 once and then sent it over to Ken because my images were very poor on my LX90 (alt/az).It arrived Dec 2 so in January 2018, I think I did have the only one in the world because I bought the first one from Aliexpress and it was then out of stock for a couple of months. Seemed appropriate then but sounds silly now. Mallincam now sells a 287   so there is probably a lot of experience today

I follow Carlos' (Elpajare) posts and learn a lot from his images. I have equipment that he has but his images are always better than mine. I am trying to get a lightweight alt/az grab and go system with a fast scope,sensitive camera and short exposures. I have been happy with C6 hyperstar and the 290 and 224 cameras but cannot get the 287 to come to focus on that scope

Last night ,I got a few images of Centaurus A with the 287 and 290 on my LX90 8". FR was a combo of Meade 6.3 and prostar 0.5 . The 287 was on RisingSky and the 290 was sharpcap so the settings are not the same but as close as I could get. They were 6 x 10 sec exposures. Full moon.

I will try both cameras on the Bresser and alt/az next clear night.

 

287

attachicon.gif 287 6x10jpeg.jpg

 

290 cropped

attachicon.gif 290 6x10 crop.jpg

 

Paul

Thank you for your comments

This photo with IMX287 I would say that it is missing a subtraction of dark fields and a stack of at least 15 images. And a parameter adjusting with a professional program afterwards. This camera gives very good results with this type of objects and with Narrowband (H alpha).

I leave almost all settings by default with the Risingtech software.




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