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What Is Your Personal Theory On "Dark Matter"?

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#301 BillP

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Posted 22 March 2018 - 08:30 AM

The particle always detected travelling through a single slit in a double-slit experiment is evidence the particle always travels through a single slit. It is the associated wave in the dark matter that passes through both. 

 

And tell me ALL the other things it can be evidence of! Not just the cherry picked one someone wants it to be.  Evidence and Proof, two very different things.

 

But enough of this silliness and back on topic...one's personal theory on Dark Matter.  So not evidence for or against and all that nonsense.  "Personal" theories! 

 

Mine is that it does not exist. A theorists incorrect fantasy to solve a problem with an observation.  The actual solution is yet to be fully realized.  Right now they are chasing ghosts...dark matter ghosts lol.gif  So until there is irrevocable "proof", not beliefily applied evidence shreds, otherwise, that will remain my personal theory.


Edited by BillP, 22 March 2018 - 08:35 AM.

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#302 csa/montana

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Posted 22 March 2018 - 03:51 PM

This thread has been cleaned up!  Any problems with other members, contact us, rather than posting in the forums!  Members are free to post their view once, but not hi-jack an entire thread.  Let everyone have a chance to post their thoughts.  I really want to keep this interesting thread open, so please everyone's cooperation will be greatly appreciated.


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#303 Arthur L

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Posted 25 March 2018 - 09:19 AM

The first time I heard "spooky action at a distance" I thought  it was

an excellent description of gravity.

 

Worthless as a scientific definition of course. 

 

I agree with those thinking when gravity is better defined dark everything will go away.


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#304 Starkid2u

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Posted 25 March 2018 - 11:31 PM

It's dark and it doesn't matter.

 

STARKID2U


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#305 JonnyBravo

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Posted 28 March 2018 - 04:55 AM

I'll take a wack at Dark Matter.... Dark Magic! (Drops mic and walks off stage).

 

Jk, on a more serious note and please forgive me for my simplicity because of my lack of DM knowledge. Basically, we believe galaxies are spinning so fast that they should be throwing stars, planets, dust, gas, etc off and they should not form because we know how much matter (gravity) should be in the middle of the galaxy to hold onto the outer matter in the spiral arms (or whatever galaxy you want to picture). Another trait is the galaxy inner and outer sections are spinning as one or same speed. So I think I'm correct(ish) when I say all that. Okay, now my theory (Bravo Theory # uno). Think of our solar system, sun in the middle, planets, dust, rocks, cars & other satellites in orbit going round and round. To me this would create a gyroscope effect, gyroscopic precession, angular momentum, and whatever other forces that produces. My question to the community would be this, was this force equated into the DM calculations? Could these forces also be the answer to Dark Energy (could this momentum push a galaxy faster in any direction?) IDK that's my 2 cents for the missing link. 

 

 

It's dark and it doesn't matter.

 

STARKID2U

Okay your joke got more likes than mine, I'll work on my jokes to beat yours in the future... bow.gif

 

But I really like this thread and I want to keep it alive. So my theory was dismissed earlier because the galaxy is not solid. Roger that! But can we all agree it is at least connected by gravity? Has anyone here held a gyroscope in their hand and thought wow this thing has a mind of its own? Okay, I want you to think for a moment about how our solar system works. Star in the middle, I will go 9 planets in orbit, if you look they are almost in the same parallel. So this would give it a gyroscope effect. Apply this math to the rest of the million stars. Could this be enough to create its own gravity to keep the structure of the galaxy from coming apart? Don't look at this from a galaxy point of view, meaning the whole galaxy as a gyroscope. I want you to think about it as each star have its own planetary system and creating its own gyroscope effect and then applying that to the whole galaxy. 

 

Let me get a like if you still believe in planet X aka Pluto! I did say 9 planets! For the technical folks, yes I know we are looking for that extra planet out there... But where she at?  scratchhead2.gif

 

Ya'll have a good night, clear skies and clear thoughts! Keep this thread alive!


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#306 Stonius

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Posted 28 March 2018 - 06:47 AM

Once there was "the ether" now there is "dark matter".

 

And don't forget "phlogiston(sic)".

 

A better explanation will be found in the future and "dark matter" will be regarded as quaint a notion as the canals of Mars.

I agree. It seems absurd to find something that doesn't fit with known physics, then make up a 'fudge factor' so it does. IMO, the solution will come from re-examining our theories, not searching the cosmos for something we invented in the first place.


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#307 Jim Davis

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Posted 28 March 2018 - 07:34 AM

I agree. It seems absurd to find something that doesn't fit with known physics, then make up a 'fudge factor' so it does. IMO, the solution will come from re-examining our theories, not searching the cosmos for something we invented in the first place.

Neutrinos having mass doesn't fit with known physics, but we have performed experiments proving that they do. The Standard model predicts them to be massless. Their mass is so small we don't have a way of measuring it, we can just put an upper and lower bound on it. Yet, millions of them fly through your body each second. So, one of the big tests of the standard model was the Higgs Boson. Scientists were expecting it to not quite match the prediction of the standard model, to give them a clue to how it needs changed. Yet, it showed up exactly as predicted. So, the standard model is wrong, but we still don't know how it is wrong. Figuring that out may give us a way to predict the existence of another particle we can search for.


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#308 VeraZwicky

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Posted 28 March 2018 - 01:47 PM

Galaxy found without a dark matter halo:

 

http://www.syfy.com/...ark-matter-halo



#309 bobito

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Posted 29 March 2018 - 12:02 PM

Galaxy found without a dark matter halo:

 

http://www.syfy.com/...ark-matter-halo

It has one other odd feature... no central black hole.  Seems to help the ~we don't fully understand gravity~ theories.

 

Edit to add:  I've now read 4 articles on this, only this one mentions "doesn’t seem to have a central black hole":  https://www.popularm...no-dark-matter/


Edited by bobito, 29 March 2018 - 12:24 PM.


#310 bsavoie

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Posted 29 March 2018 - 02:40 PM

If we come back to science, and consider the work being done to understand Black holes, we might start with this video.

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=-OlEGq_g2FI

 

What I find interesting is that Dr. Erik Verlinde describes the effect of Dark Matter as an effect of particle entanglement. In other words, he has calculated from quantum mechanics the effect of how particles can be connected to other particles anywhere in the universe. It has no size component, this entanglement.

 

I make the claim that there are other explanations of this entanglement, as I pointed out in my locked post

https://www.cloudyni...ht-is-constant/

 

We are not separate from the universe, and we are connected in from the beginning. Of course, no insight or enlightened view will allow you to avoid going to work on Monday.. but all the suffering can end.

 

Bill



#311 Relativist

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Posted 30 March 2018 - 10:34 AM

IMO it's a simple mistake of not correctly applying general relativity, which is a non-linear system, where collective behavior can seem paradoxical. See the work of Fred Cooperstock. He explained the non-Keplerian rotation curves of galaxies by using GR the right way.

-drl


I agree with this. I have no idea how such a basic mistake is made other than to say the requirement to understand relativity should be mandatory for anyone working such fields IMO.
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#312 deSitter

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Posted 30 March 2018 - 12:26 PM

I agree with this. I have no idea how such a basic mistake is made other than to say the requirement to understand relativity should be mandatory for anyone working such fields IMO.

Well I have been through the work carefully. There is no arguing with the main conclusion, although attempts have been made based on misunderstanding of what is a field potential in GR vs. say electromagnetism, and what a discontinuity in that potential means. There is ample experience of paradoxical behavior in non-linear systems from fluid dynamics, as well as the lesson "any viscosity is vastly different than no viscosity". Feynman called the theory of fluids minus viscosity "dry water", emphasizing that it leaves out the very part of the fluid that makes it physically interesting. It was simply tacitly assumed that a sparse matter distribution with characteristic velocities far less than C could be successfully modeled in the Newtonian approximation. It's not the first time that a wrong assumption led to a lot of effort in the wrong direction. The electrodynamics of moving charged bodies led to all kinds of trouble and strange ideas to compensate, the strangest being the existence of an all-pervasive ether with physically absurd properties, and the deformation of objects moving through that ether. It wasn't until Einstein proposed the right theory of space and time that the contradictions were resolved.

 

-drl


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#313 deSitter

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Posted 31 March 2018 - 08:33 PM

I agree with this. I have no idea how such a basic mistake is made other than to say the requirement to understand relativity should be mandatory for anyone working such fields IMO.

Sadly, Cooperstock has just passed away. He had a long and interesting life, and was a beloved professor for many years.

 

http://www.legacy.co...y&pid=188114748

 

-drl



#314 SteveThornton1

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Posted 05 April 2018 - 09:02 PM

Epicycles; MOND.  Occam's Razor



#315 BillP

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Posted 05 April 2018 - 09:09 PM

My personal theory is that the "theory" is more about scratching their heads and unsubstantiated claims than anything else. lol.gif

 

https://www.sciencen...tself-after-all



#316 Dick Jacobson

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Posted 06 April 2018 - 08:14 AM

Is dark matter evidence for a fourth dimension of space? Perhaps dark matter and gravity extend into the fourth dimension, while baryonic matter and electromagnetism are limited to three. We cannot find the dark matter with our three-dimensional tools. In our "flatland", nudges from the extra dimension seem mysterious.



#317 RussL

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Posted 06 April 2018 - 12:19 PM

My theory is to just mow on over it.

Sorry, back to my corner.
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#318 Classic8

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Posted 09 April 2018 - 02:33 PM

Haven't read the whole thread and don't even remember if I posted already (too many pages to go through again), but...I don't know anything about it but I've wondered if space has to be completely flat when there is no matter there. Couldn't you have warped space in certain places, perhaps wrinkles in space, left over from the big bang?

 

In any case, I wonder how long they will continue to search for dark matter they can't find, before they start thinking that maybe something else is going on.


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#319 Jim Davis

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Posted 09 April 2018 - 03:26 PM

Haven't read the whole thread and don't even remember if I posted already (too many pages to go through again), but...I don't know anything about it but I've wondered if space has to be completely flat when there is no matter there. Couldn't you have warped space in certain places, perhaps wrinkles in space, left over from the big bang?

 

In any case, I wonder how long they will continue to search for dark matter they can't find, before they start thinking that maybe something else is going on.

Peter Higgs theorized the Higgs particle in 1964, and it was finally detected in 2012. Sometimes it takes a while.


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#320 Classic8

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Posted 09 April 2018 - 04:22 PM

Peter Higgs theorized the Higgs particle in 1964, and it was finally detected in 2012. Sometimes it takes a while.

Wasn't that just a matter of having an accelerator that produced high enough energy collisions?


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#321 Jim Davis

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Posted 09 April 2018 - 05:44 PM

Wasn't that just a matter of having an accelerator that produced high enough energy collisions?

There were lots of theories that didn't include it. Yes, they ended up having to build a big enough collider. To discover the hypothetical dark matter particle, they may have to build an even bigger one.

 

Before they theorized the Higgs boson, they first had to develop a theory that explained the sub atomic particles and inter-reactions they were observing. This is about where they are with dark matter. They have observed a bunch of events, and are trying to develop a theory to explain them.

 

After particle theory developed the idea of the standard model, it didn't work. It is a mathematical equation, but if you entered inputs that had mass, it didn't work. That is when Higgs theorized another particle that would add mass to other particles as part of the equation. That then generated solutions that matched observations. From this, they were able to deduce what the Higgs particle should be like. With dark matter, they are only beginning this effort, but there are still many ideas.

 

Once Higgs developed his theory, they compared it to all other theories trying to explain the particle phenomenon. The refined standard model gave better results, so then they started to build colliders to find it. We really are not to this point with dark matter. Current tests are being done with devices that were built for other reasons. Those results are useful, since the provide boundaries and eliminate possibilities.


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#322 jcj380

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Posted 09 April 2018 - 07:56 PM

My inclination  is that DM is not something exotic, but something rather ordinary that we're not detecting.

 

The other thought is we don't understand GR as much as we think we do.


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