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Jupiter GRS -@ sunrise, Wow - best 2 minutes of my 2018 - 16 inch Dob

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#26 phileefan

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Posted 07 February 2018 - 08:29 PM

Very nice image indeed! I do see in your FireCapture settings that you have your gamma set to off. This should be set to on. Clear skies......smile.gif


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#27 wavydavy

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Posted 07 February 2018 - 08:33 PM

Wavydavy, could you post a pic of your scope please? I’m sorely tempted. By the way, with this jaw dropping image, there are some who would elevate you to the level of Jedi Imager..... take a bow sir

here is the beast scope with mystery optical train ....ran out of room on the camera ....

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#28 moonwatching ferret

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Posted 07 February 2018 - 09:15 PM

wow you got allot of responses in a short time lol mine usuay get ignored. I was going to get up bur due to lack of good weather i decided to swing back to my rc hobby im curently working on a 1.2 meter scale electric p47 thunderbolt. its foam. i am atempting to use my skills at covering it and painting it to look more realistic its a sweet flyer. I am at the moment contemplating draging out my 16 but noticed no grs tomorow except for early in the am. right now its calm and clear for once. 

 that is a real nice shot. your lucky you obviously got a good mirror. that wa the one thing that scared me off from buying that scope. my 16 f7is a royal pain due to its length....flippin beast 



#29 raphael_OD

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Posted 08 February 2018 - 12:59 AM

Awesome ! nice setup great image...but I think your dog is the best part of your setup 😉
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#30 moonwatching ferret

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Posted 08 February 2018 - 02:00 AM

28 replies in less then 24 hours wow that is a good image its 151 am o clock in the morning and i am setting up the scope but i didnt want to stay out all night . However i did just notice out of the corner of my weasely eye Jupiter is already up just clearing the twees I fear an alnighter coming up. to bad my mirror still does not ook right. there is one spike coming off my difraction ring when i place my hand at the top of the tube thats where the spike is. i dont think its a thermal issue i dont even think its colimatio unless its the secondary. i think its mirror support. the more i think of it I should have gone with the 16 f6 that ws for sale . it was 3 inch thick, you could put that on a warped piece of plywood and it would work.i mah sell this scope as a dob and buy a commercial 16 f 4.5 or f5 ota

 anyway enough rambling on your thread. im out with my 16 hopefully I will stay awake and it will stay nice. the lepard froggies are calling and i got the ###### scared out of me by a couple of bun buns lol imagine that a weasel getting scared by rabits lol


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#31 wavydavy

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Posted 08 February 2018 - 07:47 AM

Very nice image indeed! I do see in your FireCapture settings that you have your gamma set to off. This should be set to on. Clear skies......smile.gif

so gamma would change the balance within the dark to light range ....is there a reason to have it on for recording ? - THANKS !



#32 phileefan

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Posted 08 February 2018 - 09:14 AM

Very nice image indeed! I do see in your FireCapture settings that you have your gamma set to off. This should be set to on. Clear skies......smile.gif

so gamma would change the balance within the dark to light range ....is there a reason to have it on for recording ? - THANKS !
I just remember having this conversation with Darryl ( Kokatha Man) a while back and he said the gamma should be 50 and on. Now we had discussed adjusting it up to aid in achieving focus, but then set back to 50 and on.

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#33 charotarguy

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Posted 08 February 2018 - 09:34 AM

 

Wavydavy, could you post a pic of your scope please? I’m sorely tempted. By the way, with this jaw dropping image, there are some who would elevate you to the level of Jedi Imager..... take a bow sir

here is the beast scope with mystery optical train ....ran out of room on the camera ....

 

This is a sight to behold, quick question how long does the planet stay in the FOV of the camera's chip before it starts to drift out, on mine (non Orion) the longest I've ever got is 40 mins before it drifted out. 


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#34 gfstallin

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Posted 08 February 2018 - 11:53 AM

Wonderful!

 

I got up at 4.30 the last two days to image Jupiter. Unforecast cloud and terrible seeing both days! And sleepy at work.....!

If my office management really wanted to get analytical, it could track Jovian and Martian oppositions by my annual vacation leave requests. I've also had a couple sudden illnesses over the years for which the only cure was more Autostakkert. I do have evidence of a strong correlation between deep blues on the Clear Sky Chart for the area around Washington D.C. and stomach illnesses caused by an unknown pathogen. Something tells me this pathogen afflicts other ecosystems in both hemispheres, possibly traveling around the globe via high pressure systems. I might be forced to type up a paper on this and pay to have it published if seeing conditions this spring rival those from 2015 and I start running out of paid leave hours. I imagine I could get it peer-reviewed right here by Cloudynights members. 

 

George


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#35 wavydavy

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Posted 08 February 2018 - 12:20 PM

LOL My Bad ...I did not see any labels or captions ...Thank you for touching it up - QUESTION --- what did you do ? / What apps do you use for processing chain ? - THANKS AGAIN ! - Merci



#36 Kokatha man

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Posted 08 February 2018 - 09:18 PM

Hi Dave, it's a very good capture waytogo.gif waytogo.gif  with a lot of detail, but tbh I'd like to see it processed less heavily...you won't get the contrast your current processing displays, but the overall effect will be much better from many aspects.

 

It's easy & understandable to want to push the data hard when it captures quite a lot of detail, but I don't think it does justice to the end results personally. wink.gif

 

...just my penny.gif penny.gif


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#37 wavydavy

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Posted 09 February 2018 - 05:55 AM

Hi Dave, it's a very good capture waytogo.gif waytogo.gif  with a lot of detail, but tbh I'd like to see it processed less heavily...you won't get the contrast your current processing displays, but the overall effect will be much better from many aspects.

 

It's easy & understandable to want to push the data hard when it captures quite a lot of detail, but I don't think it does justice to the end results personally. wink.gif

 

...just my penny.gif penny.gif

Thanks for commenting ..I have been looking at your work for the year since I started astro shooting ..very nice ..and you are very helpful in the forums -RESPECT ! :)  ...question ...what do your wavelet settings look like for full scale good raw data ..what you see in the image I posted is heavy levels 1 & 6 ...like .2 ..and full 100 ...I often post my screenshots of Registax in an FB group  so ppl can see and comment, learn etc. - i should start here ...as well

 

THE SECRET wavelets  ..I hardly ever see anyone post their process ... :)  PEACE - I am waiting out some clouds here at 6am - I have 45 mins left to get any more data .



#38 Kokatha man

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Posted 09 February 2018 - 07:23 AM

Yes Dave,a lot of folks are secretive...& it seems like the more some folks learn, the less they reveal! :lol:

 

You will find screenshots of some of my wavelets settings here & there but I don't post them as a matter of course, because it is seldom that they can be transferred to someone else's data...

 

That said, using your scope & a presumption of the quality of your raw data for this thread's image I'd "suggest" you trial an R6 setting like the following: Linked Wavelets - all sliders shifted across to maximum (100) & either no Sharpen for each slider or 0.11 or 0.12 maximum...

 

Be aware that if you push here to the limit you will not have any leeway for deconvolution later in another program - in R6 look for the Gibbs Effect when applying values I've mentioned...also called the limb sharpening artefact which appears somewhat similar to the edge artefact on Mars btw...

 

The values I suggest might be too much & the data & number of frames (& quality thereof) will also influence this...with those values I suggest you will probably need anything up to 0.70 Denoise for all sliders as well btw... ;)

 

Perhaps try these values & then back off, first the amount of Sharpen for each slider & play with the Denoise values, lastly dropping the actual slider values down from 100 if it still appearas too severe. :)


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#39 wavydavy

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Posted 09 February 2018 - 08:05 AM

Yes Dave,a lot of folks are secretive...& it seems like the more some folks learn, the less they reveal! lol.gif

 

You will find screenshots of some of my wavelets settings here & there but I don't post them as a matter of course, because it is seldom that they can be transferred to someone else's data...

 

That said, using your scope & a presumption of the quality of your raw data for this thread's image I'd "suggest" you trial an R6 setting like the following: Linked Wavelets - all sliders shifted across to maximum (100) & either no Sharpen for each slider or 0.11 or 0.12 maximum...

 

Be aware that if you push here to the limit you will not have any leeway for deconvolution later in another program - in R6 look for the Gibbs Effect when applying values I've mentioned...also called the limb sharpening artefact which appears somewhat similar to the edge artefact on Mars btw...

 

The values I suggest might be too much & the data & number of frames (& quality thereof) will also influence this...with those values I suggest you will probably need anything up to 0.70 Denoise for all sliders as well btw... wink.gif

 

Perhaps try these values & then back off, first the amount of Sharpen for each slider & play with the Denoise values, lastly dropping the actual slider values down from 100 if it still appearas too severe. smile.gif

Awesome you ROCK ! - Next Question so I can hand down the gospel to my peeps :)  --- Do you use FITSWORK after Registax sharpening for deconvolution ...? - I have played with it ..but someone mentioned doing it BEFORE Reg ?? hmmm - BIG THANKS AGAIN  to the man down South



#40 wavydavy

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Posted 09 February 2018 - 08:43 AM

 

 

Wavydavy, could you post a pic of your scope please? I’m sorely tempted. By the way, with this jaw dropping image, there are some who would elevate you to the level of Jedi Imager..... take a bow sir

here is the beast scope with mystery optical train ....ran out of room on the camera ....

 

This is a sight to behold, quick question how long does the planet stay in the FOV of the camera's chip before it starts to drift out, on mine (non Orion) the longest I've ever got is 40 mins before it drifted out. 

 

My Beast DOB does no such thing on a chip ...SOMETIMES is lasts no more than 30 seconds and I have to guide it back ..so basically I actively am involved in the recording process - VIDEO GAME styleeeee :)


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#41 RedLionNJ

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Posted 09 February 2018 - 11:57 AM

 

Very nice image indeed! I do see in your FireCapture settings that you have your gamma set to off. This should be set to on. Clear skies......smile.gif

so gamma would change the balance within the dark to light range ....is there a reason to have it on for recording ? - THANKS !

 

My understanding of the gamma functionality in FC with a ZWO is that you would only turn it on if you wanted to set it to something other than the (sensible) default. And that default is 50.

 

We want to gather the data with minimal modifications. People sometimes tune it down a bit for focusing purposes, but then reset it to 50 (off) for actual capture.

 

If you feel the need to raise it above 50, that's best done in post-processing once you have a stacked image.


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#42 TonyStar

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Posted 09 February 2018 - 04:21 PM

My Beast DOB does no such thing on a chip ...SOMETIMES is lasts no more than 30 seconds and I have to guide it back ..so basically I actively am involved in the recording process - VIDEO GAME styleeeee smile.gif

Dave, it may be possible to setup your dob for auto-tracking in FC using the ST4 port. This would eliminate the need for frequent manual corrections.

I want to try this on my dob but have to add a ST4 port to my onstep electronics first.  


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#43 RAC

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Posted 09 February 2018 - 06:07 PM

 

My Beast DOB does no such thing on a chip ...SOMETIMES is lasts no more than 30 seconds and I have to guide it back ..so basically I actively am involved in the recording process - VIDEO GAME styleeeee smile.gif

Dave, it may be possible to setup your dob for auto-tracking in FC using the ST4 port. This would eliminate the need for frequent manual corrections.

I want to try this on my dob but have to add a ST4 port to my onstep electronics first.  

 

If FC can use ascom for guiding like PHD can you could just guide through Wifi. I do this with my Onstepped NJP.  


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#44 TonyStar

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Posted 09 February 2018 - 06:44 PM

If FC can use ascom for guiding like PHD can you could just guide through Wifi. I do this with my Onstepped NJP.  

Thanks for the tip Raymond, I'll look into it. And I like that it doesn't need cables.

Perhaps there is a way to link the laptop to onstep with BT so I won't need Wifi...


Edited by TonyStar, 09 February 2018 - 06:55 PM.

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#45 moonwatching ferret

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Posted 09 February 2018 - 08:04 PM

28 replies in less then 24 hours wow that is a good image its 151 am o clock in the morning and i am setting up the scope but i didnt want to stay out all night . However i did just notice out of the corner of my weasely eye Jupiter is already up just clearing the twees I fear an alnighter coming up. to bad my mirror still does not ook right. there is one spike coming off my difraction ring when i place my hand at the top of the tube thats where the spike is. i dont think its a thermal issue i dont even think its colimatio unless its the secondary. i think its mirror support. the more i think of it I should have gone with the 16 f6 that ws for sale . it was 3 inch thick, you could put that on a warped piece of plywood and it would work.i mah sell this scope as a dob and buy a commercial 16 f 4.5 or f5 ota

 anyway enough rambling on your thread. im out with my 16 hopefully I will stay awake and it will stay nice. the lepard froggies are calling and i got the ###### scared out of me by a couple of bun buns lol imagine that a weasel getting scared by rabits lol

you see what i mean ... my fasa backsid image only got 1 reply lol and it was from me oh well for some reason its a bad image. im starting to think i got skunked on my mirror perhaps the seller got a mirror test report from another mirror but it does have pegasus on the side with the ifo  ie  the person who figured it


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#46 RAC

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Posted 09 February 2018 - 11:08 PM

 

If FC can use ascom for guiding like PHD can you could just guide through Wifi. I do this with my Onstepped NJP.  

Thanks for the tip Raymond, I'll look into it. And I like that it doesn't need cables.

Perhaps there is a way to link the laptop to onstep with BT so I won't need Wifi...

 

I just tested it and it works yay.gif . I only tested it in the shed though but at least FC can control my Onstep dob through WiFi using ascom. Now I just need some good weather for testing it on a planet.


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#47 TonyStar

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Posted 09 February 2018 - 11:38 PM

I just tested it and it works yay.gif . I only tested it in the shed though but at least FC can control my Onstep dob through WiFi using ascom. Now I just need some good weather for testing it on a planet.

That's cool! I tried to connect FC to Onstep via BT (serial port) and it works but the motors don't seem to turn when I use the control pad on FC question.gif


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#48 Kokatha man

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Posted 09 February 2018 - 11:50 PM

...sorry Dave - I did omit to state that the values I suggested you experiment with are for the 3X Drizzle output from AS!2/3..! lol.gif

 

We'd packed up for the trip home when I realised I hadn't said that, but you would've soon found out that they were a no-no for the native scale! wink.gif

 

3X drizzling allows for much stronger linked wavelets applications than none in AS!2/3 - you must have the data of sufficient quality to be able to drizzle, but when you do you end up with a much more aesthetically pleasing outcome. smile.gif

 

I've only just got home but I'll dig up some Jovian processes in R6...here is a Saturn where I've only used the first 3 sliders at similar values - if I'd used all 6 sliders with similar or slightly increased Denoise values it would possibly be a bit better but yuou must always remember that every stack of raw data will react slightly differently - or much differently if it is very poor! lol.gif This is of course a 3X Drizzled Saturn stack. wink.gif

 

You can see by utilising the "Zoom" window just how much noise you have in your image when you adjust the Denoise values for any specific slider/wavelets amounts you have set...to be continued... smile.gif

 

SaturnDenoiseValues#1.jpg

 

SaturnDenoiseValues#2.jpg


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#49 Kokatha man

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Posted 09 February 2018 - 11:54 PM

Fitswork appears very good but I have AstraImage, Image Analyser (free) & ImagePlus to use...I'll post an animated sequence where you determine the amount of Lucy-Richardson deconvolution by practical (read "eyeball" lol.gif  ) assessment, looking for the sharpest delineation of the finest details present in an image with varying curve widths but identical reiterations: most decon programs should be similar as long as you can "preview" different applications: it often pays to apply somewhat more reiterations (1 or 2 more) than you end up applying because this can help you see the difference between small changes in the image with different curve widths. (point spreads)

 

You might have to click on the image to get the animation moving, but each frame stays there for 3 seconds so you can study each one a bit better! wink.gif. wink.gif

 

Fix your eyes upon a very fine aspect of the image's detail & keep it there as the animation runs through its sequence & watch for the best definition. wink.gif

 

DeterminingDeconvolution.gif


Edited by Kokatha man, 09 February 2018 - 11:56 PM.

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#50 Kokatha man

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Posted 10 February 2018 - 01:52 AM

ps: Let me know which Curve Width you thought gave the best sharpening deconvolution outcome in the animated examples above! :lol:

 

There are other aspects that were a bit too involved to incorporate into that animation in the post btw...you really should move the image in the preview windows around if your program allows that, to examine what is happening to the limb when you apply various amounts of deconvolution: also important for those who have AstraImage is that my version is rather old now (works fine however!) but newer versions have a different formula evidently & you apply many more iterations as I understand things...


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