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Anyone else had issues with the usb 3.0 cables that were included with ASI ZWO 3.0 cameras?

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#51 rgsalinger

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Posted 18 April 2018 - 11:02 AM

I think that the problem is more about the overall topology of the system when it comes to USB problems than any one specific item. First of all, there is cable quality. Then there is the topology of the USB ports in your computer. Next there is the issue of the hubs that you are (or are not) using. Next there can be environmental problems - USB was never designed to be used outside a home/office environment. Finally, we have the devices themselves. These seem to be engineered in some cases in a manner that requires a "better than average" USB topology to work reliably.

 

For years I combated the problem by using an industrial quality hub (Startech USB 3.0) and short (as possible) USB 2.0 cables stamped 28/24. This seemed to be the highest gauge available in common USB cable configurations. Along came USB 3 and, frankly, I have had nothing but problems with USB connections. What I think I've learned is that given all of the variables possible you really need to have USB 3 in your computer now, use a USB 3 hub and figure out how to get quality USB 3 cables (I've never seen a spec on these) the instant that you connect USB 3 devices to your computer.

 

I have the good fortune to use 3 different imaging systems quite regularly and all three were destabilized the minute USB 3 devices were added to the mix. I had one USB 3.0 guide camera refuse to inter-operate with any other device on the hub. We had another system where the computer stopped booting once we added two USB 3 cameras to the system. The third system produced weird results - some images were washed out as if the gain was too high. So, each one evinced a different but crippling issue.

 

In one case I eliminated the USB 3 camera for a different USB 2.0 camera (expensive but worth it). Now that same system is dead reliable when it comes to USB issues. For the two other systems, I got  computers that had USB 3.0 ports on them and connected as many devices as possible directly to those computers. Those systems have now become reliable as well. 

 

Others may never see these problems, I get that. I really have no choice but to use a hub at the mount given my other equipment so those who are blessed with sufficient USB ports on their computers may never have a problem, ever. 

 

Rgrds-Ross


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#52 f430

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Posted 18 April 2018 - 12:14 PM

I'm curious.

I've read that if you use a USB 3 hub, like a Startech, and plug it into a USB 3 port on your computer, as long as you use all USB 3 devices plugged into the hub, everything runs at USB 3 speed. But, if you mix in a USB 2 device with the other USB 3 devices, the entire hub will then only run at USB 2 speeds?

 

I can imagine where it can't run any faster than its slowest device, but I don't know for sure.

Thanks, John



#53 rgsalinger

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Posted 18 April 2018 - 02:10 PM

My understanding is different. When you have a USB 3 hub it can transfer only one USB 3 full speed - 5Gbps. If I attach any second USB device to that hub it will share that amount of bandwidth. If it's a USB 2 device and cable then it could take up to 480mbps. That would leave any USB3 devices running at a slower EFFECTIVE speed if they were running simultaneously with the already running USB 2 device. I don't think that even expensive hubs can do anything else. That's because they share a downstream link to your computer over a single USB 3 connection. So, all of the devices are limited to a total 5Gbps because there is only one connection from the hub to the computer. That means that if that pesky USB3 CMOS camera takes the entire bandwidth when it's running, the other devices are going to have to wait.

 

Presumably well designed usb devices have a mechanism to "wait" or interleave as needed. I don't know anything about that.

 

Rgrds-Ross



#54 f430

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Posted 18 April 2018 - 02:43 PM

Okay, thanks Ross!

I have the imaging camera on its own wire, and the guide cam, focuser, etc on a hub, and it seems to be working fine so far.

John 



#55 Giant

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 08:34 AM

Has anyone found a good USB 3.0 Active Repeater cable that is 15 to 25 feet long. There are a lot of 15 foot ones for gaming but they will only support 250ma and are not externally powered. I cannot find the amperage specs for the ASI224MC camera, so I do not know if these will work.

The externally powered ones seem to have a USB dongle connector at the end that would connect to the camera that I can use a USB Battery Bank with, however I do not know if these cables only power the camera but do not amplify the signal. 

I need to extend the signal this far for remote operation.



#56 Konihlav

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 08:44 AM

just a note. AFAIK you can just take your proven to work USB 2.0 cable and just plug it into your ASI cooled camera. The socket accepts it. The USB 3.0 sockets accept USB 2.0 cables! so I think nothing forces you to use USB 3.0 cables with cooled ZWO ASI cameras.

 

BTW what I do (I never used any default USB cable from QHY nor ZWO) is that I have couple of EIZO monitors (one at home and one at work etc.) and the EIZO monitors came with USB 3.0 cable. So that cable I use with my ZWO camera and all is good :-)




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