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TV NP101is or Orion EON 104mm ED-X2 APO Triplet?

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#51 Peter Besenbruch

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Posted 13 February 2018 - 02:45 PM

 I know you think I don't based on several of your past posts but you must have missed mine where I said something like "knowing that, I still want to see if this defies expectations". Unfortunately it did not.

No, I guess it didn't. There's another thread with a person struggling with his Borg. Like you, he is trying get some data.



#52 Wildetelescope

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Posted 13 February 2018 - 03:17 PM

 

 

 

Doctor, how stable is it with a decent 2" eyepiece, maybe 1.5lbs making for a total of around 15lbs? Does the AZ-GTi actually keep it secure? The single locking screw would make me a little nervous with that amount of weight.


I don’t use it with 2” EP’s. As it is on the stock tripod after a slew there is 1-2 seconds of jitter. And about 1/2-1 seconds when focusing. However I am over the rated weight for the mount. But I knew that going in and was willing to deal with it for the form factor and weight of the mount. I haven’t tried vibration suppression pads yet so that may change. Ditto for a beefier tripod.

The screw keeps it firmly in place.

 

bigshock.gif How could you avoid using the incredible Ethos line or the longer Naglers in such a well-corrected widefield scope!? I don't know if I would use 1.25" eyepieces for anything but the sun, the moon, and planets...

 

Good to know though, honestly better than I expected.

 

 

The short answer is weight, space, and cost. The long answer is the NP101is is my G&G scope that rides with me. I can't afford a second set of Ethos to carry in the car, the TV case won't fit Ethos with all the other stuff I have packed in there, and large Ethoi on that mount would make things more shaky than they already are.

 

Those are great logistic problems to have'lol.gif !   

 

Jmd



#53 Mattimac

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Posted 13 February 2018 - 04:26 PM

Just get the TV NP-101.  It may not be "justified" by your sky conditions or etc., etc., but all that matters in the end is what you think of it.  No one else is really going to care about your telescope, so find the best deal you can on the TV NP-101 and give it a whirl. 

Well said.



#54 rodb

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Posted 13 February 2018 - 04:46 PM

Hey, to all who've been so great in contributing to this topic and helping me sort through my madness.

 

I've finally made my decision. And I'm very happy with it. It calls to me. What price, that?! I just wasn't happy with the Orion. It was heavier than it needed to be, clunkier and the rings were over-sized and heavy, too. I've no doubt that the optics would be really good, but so would many other scopes in its class.

 

I called Company Seven and found out Marty was away and wouldn't be back until this Thursday. And so I dealt with William, the C-7 tech. He's a sweetheart and a pleasure to deal with and very knowledgeable.  I told him I'm returning the Orion OTA for $2800 refund - and am putting that toward the TeleVue NP101is. It was the one I always wanted but Marty kept insisting I should save money and get the Orion, despite my saying what I really wanted. So I reluctantly went along with him. Mistake. So I had to return the Orion and order the TV (today, Tuesday). William said he's had nothing but great experiences with selling this scope and that the customers are all very happy; not one returned. He recommends it highly. It's very near the top of the hi-end heap.

 

Yes, it's a lot more costly when factoring in not just the additional for the TV OTA, but the rings (which are much slimmer and lighter than the Orion's), a new dovetail plate and I decided to get the TV 2x Big Barlow which, with the array of EPs, adds a nice fil-in range. The EPs I already had bought with the Orion, except swapped the 12 Nagler/4 (used) for the Delos 14 (see array below).

 

The EPs: 35mm Pan - 15x, 4.11 deg (Pleiades conqueror, looking forward to immersing myself in those sisters); 14 Delos - 39x, 1.84 deg; 6 Delos - 90x, 0.81 deg; 3.5 Delos - 154x, 0.47 deg. Double them with the Big Barlow. All EPs have great eye relief since I need to wear glasses.

 

The scope should come into the store late this week. William will do his normal rigorous testing to ensure it lives up to its reputation.

 

I feel real good, now. Call it emotional, or attending to the heart; I couldn't care less of others who might sneer at this mode of decision making. I have researched this to near death, as you all know who've read my posts, so while not just purely spec-driven, it was certainly not hastily arrived at.

 

Much regards to all, Rod (and I'll follow up with impressions once I get to see and touch it, and William thoroughly explains the workings to me (as he did with the Orion). So all you who nay-say C-7 because Marty's a bit of a handful, still the testing and other service aspects are more than well worth and issues.


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#55 jay.i

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Posted 13 February 2018 - 04:52 PM

I think you will be very happy with the TeleVue, Rod. Sometimes the heart wants what it wants. I don't blame you at all even if the Orion had excellent optics. Please do let us know how the NP-101is is once you get it!



#56 rodb

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Posted 13 February 2018 - 04:57 PM

 

I concluded that quality control seemed rather hit or miss--multiple reports of pinched optics, long and ineffective intervals "in the shop", plus the Petzval design's potential susceptibility to miscollimation. Those lucky observers/imagers with a good unit are clearly very pleased.

 

 

In my humble opinion .. From what I seen in person and read,  the QC and service for TeleVue scopes is top notch.  It doesn't take luck to get a good one. There are literally thousands of NP-101 out there. 

 

As far as collimation , it comes with the territory , petzvals are sensitive to miscollimation , the FSQs are the same way. Doublets like yours ard not only mechanically simpler but also optically much simpler.  Collimation issues with doublets of any manufacture are rare. 

 

Jon

 

After visiting C-7 today (Tuesday - see my latest post on pg 3), William the tech (sounds like a title) said the TV NP101is is very solid and very hard to knock out of collimation. And he sells them all the time, so he ought o know.

 

Rod


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#57 rodb

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Posted 13 February 2018 - 04:59 PM

I think you will be very happy with the TeleVue, Rod. Sometimes the heart wants what it wants. I don't blame you at all even if the Orion had excellent optics. Please do let us know how the NP-101is is once you get it!

Thanks, Jay. Appreciate the boostering. Will do. Rod



#58 SeattleScott

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Posted 13 February 2018 - 05:13 PM

Really both scopes are overbuilt in terms of CA correction for visual. Either should be fantastic visual scopes. Maybe prestige becomes a factor, like Ford versus BMW, but I my uncle prefers his Ford (Shelby Mustang) over his wife’s BMW. For light pollution I agree a slightly higher F ratio makes sense. Still a very capable wide field scope. Unless the Orion doesn’t perform well, which shouldn’t be a problem since Company 7 tested it, or unless you really need flat field to the field stop, the Orion seems more practical for visual use under light pollution.

Scott

#59 moshen

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Posted 13 February 2018 - 06:14 PM

Congrats! Looking forward to reading all about it when you get it!



#60 turtle86

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Posted 13 February 2018 - 06:34 PM

Hey, to all who've been so great in contributing to this topic and helping me sort through my madness.

 

I've finally made my decision. And I'm very happy with it. It calls to me. What price, that?! I just wasn't happy with the Orion. It was heavier than it needed to be, clunkier and the rings were over-sized and heavy, too. I've no doubt that the optics would be really good, but so would many other scopes in its class.

 

I called Company Seven and found out Marty was away and wouldn't be back until this Thursday. And so I dealt with William, the C-7 tech. He's a sweetheart and a pleasure to deal with and very knowledgeable.  I told him I'm returning the Orion OTA for $2800 refund - and am putting that toward the TeleVue NP101is. It was the one I always wanted but Marty kept insisting I should save money and get the Orion, despite my saying what I really wanted. So I reluctantly went along with him. Mistake. So I had to return the Orion and order the TV (today, Tuesday). William said he's had nothing but great experiences with selling this scope and that the customers are all very happy; not one returned. He recommends it highly. It's very near the top of the hi-end heap.

 

Yes, it's a lot more costly when factoring in not just the additional for the TV OTA, but the rings (which are much slimmer and lighter than the Orion's), a new dovetail plate and I decided to get the TV 2x Big Barlow which, with the array of EPs, adds a nice fil-in range. The EPs I already had bought with the Orion, except swapped the 12 Nagler/4 (used) for the Delos 14 (see array below).

 

The EPs: 35mm Pan - 15x, 4.11 deg (Pleiades conqueror, looking forward to immersing myself in those sisters); 14 Delos - 39x, 1.84 deg; 6 Delos - 90x, 0.81 deg; 3.5 Delos - 154x, 0.47 deg. Double them with the Big Barlow. All EPs have great eye relief since I need to wear glasses.

 

The scope should come into the store late this week. William will do his normal rigorous testing to ensure it lives up to its reputation.

 

I feel real good, now. Call it emotional, or attending to the heart; I couldn't care less of others who might sneer at this mode of decision making. I have researched this to near death, as you all know who've read my posts, so while not just purely spec-driven, it was certainly not hastily arrived at.

 

Much regards to all, Rod (and I'll follow up with impressions once I get to see and touch it, and William thoroughly explains the workings to me (as he did with the Orion). So all you who nay-say C-7 because Marty's a bit of a handful, still the testing and other service aspects are more than well worth and issues.

:waytogo:  Life is too short not to get what you really want.


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#61 rodb

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Posted 13 February 2018 - 06:56 PM

 

 

waytogo.gif  Life is too short not to get what you really want.

 

Yea, verily, and in my case way too short. Thanks.


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#62 Erik Bakker

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Posted 14 February 2018 - 03:25 AM

Excellent decision and ditto reasoning Rod. The NP101 will also fit better in (your history of) your instrument line-up smile.gif


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#63 mikeDnight

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Posted 14 February 2018 - 05:27 AM

Mars 7th January 2008.

TVNP101 IS smile.gif

 

2018-02-14 10.19.59.jpg

 

Mike


Edited by mikeDnight, 14 February 2018 - 05:30 AM.

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#64 Erik Bakker

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Posted 14 February 2018 - 06:08 AM

Gorgeous drawing of Mars bow.gif


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#65 rodb

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Posted 14 February 2018 - 08:17 AM

Excellent decision and ditto reasoning Rod. The NP101 will also fit better in (your history of) your instrument line-up smile.gif

Thanks, Erik. Greatly appreciate your support of my decision.

 

Regards, Rod



#66 rodb

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Posted 14 February 2018 - 08:20 AM

Gorgeous drawing of Mars bow.gif

Double ditto!

 

What EPs and mags did you use? Did you find it easy or was it a struggle to get the appropriate mags, given the very short focal length?

 

Thanks, Rod



#67 la200o

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Posted 14 February 2018 - 08:37 AM

You will love your NP 101, the most versatile 4" out there.  The collimation issues are, IMO, uncommon. 


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#68 mikeDnight

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Posted 14 February 2018 - 10:32 AM

 

Gorgeous drawing of Mars bow.gif

Double ditto!

 

What EPs and mags did you use? Did you find it easy or was it a struggle to get the appropriate mags, given the very short focal length?

 

Thanks, Rod

 

I used a 13mm Nagler and a X5 Powermate which I've noted as giving X208 magnification, though I think it may have been nearer X300.

My notes also mention the LCM was 52.54° and the phase was 99%. My notes also mention the use of a Wrattan 21 orange filter, though I would only have used that briefly.

 

The NP101 was a very nice telescope, though achieving high powers for planetary observing meant using various combinations of powermates and Naglers. I feel the NP101 made me work hard to see finer planetary detail, but that could be because of a combination of factors. There was always a lot of glass in the focuser which I was never too happy about. Then I had the scope mounted on  Vixen Porta mount, which bounced like a tuning fork. And the NP101could never quite give the same level of fine definition seen in a friends Vixen 102mm F6.5 ED doublet, which was most noticeable when viewing Saturn's rings, so I'm talking about a very fine line of difference between the scopes.

Where the NP101 really scored highly was in the ease with which it revealed dso's. Fuzzies glided effortlessly into its incredibly wide flat field. 

From a purely visual observers perspective, I'd say the TVNP101 IS is a specialist instrument., and its speciality is in giving wide field vistas in a way thet few other scopes can. The fact that it can also give wonderful views of the Moon and planets is a bonus. It's a joy to use and a joy to own and look at. I always felt it was a crime to hide it away in its carry case as its such an handsome scope to have on show. You'll absolutely love it!

 

As I'm primarily a lunar and planetary observer, I eventually sold my NP101, but if I could have afforded to keep it and buy another scope for planets I would have. I will always have a special place in my heart for Televues NP101, but I'm also extremely happy with my present 100mm Tak.

There's just something very special about refractors in the 4" range!

 

Mike

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#69 Erik Bakker

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Posted 14 February 2018 - 10:36 AM

That's my experience too Mike. Finest visual detail at high powers is were the Tak doublets shine, low power widest field is the NP101's forte, per inch of aperture of course. And because of their modest bulk, these get a lot of time under the stars for instruments that have to be carried outside to observe.


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#70 rodb

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Posted 14 February 2018 - 11:09 AM

 

 

Gorgeous drawing of Mars bow.gif

Double ditto!

 

What EPs and mags did you use? Did you find it easy or was it a struggle to get the appropriate mags, given the very short focal length?

 

Thanks, Rod

 

I used a 13mm Nagler and a X5 Powermate which I've noted as giving X208 magnification, though I think it may have been nearer X300.

My notes also mention the LCM was 52.54° and the phase was 99%. My notes also mention the use of a Wrattan 21 orange filter, though I would only have used that briefly.

 

The NP101 was a very nice telescope, though achieving high powers for planetary observing meant using various combinations of powermates and Naglers. I feel the NP101 made me work hard to see finer planetary detail, but that could be because of a combination of factors. There was always a lot of glass in the focuser which I was never too happy about. Then I had the scope mounted on  Vixen Porta mount, which bounced like a tuning fork. And the NP101could never quite give the same level of fine definition seen in a friends Vixen 102mm F6.5 ED doublet, which was most noticeable when viewing Saturn's rings, so I'm talking about a very fine line of difference between the scopes.

Where the NP101 really scored highly was in the ease with which it revealed dso's. Fuzzies glided effortlessly into its incredibly wide flat field. 

From a purely visual observers perspective, I'd say the TVNP101 IS is a specialist instrument., and its speciality is in giving wide field vistas in a way thet few other scopes can. The fact that it can also give wonderful views of the Moon and planets is a bonus. It's a joy to use and a joy to own and look at. I always felt it was a crime to hide it away in its carry case as its such an handsome scope to have on show. You'll absolutely love it!

 

As I'm primarily a lunar and planetary observer, I eventually sold my NP101, but if I could have afforded to keep it and buy another scope for planets I would have. I will always have a special place in my heart for Televues NP101, but I'm also extremely happy with my present 100mm Tak.

There's just something very special about refractors in the 4" range!

 

Mike

 

Thanks Mike (I thinkfrown.gif). I say that because it confirms what others have said about the NP101is as a specialty - dark sky, wide field - more than a planetary scope. I know all this but still ordered the TV to be used in my city/burb skies (best nights - Alcor, mag 4) off my balcony. The Orion I just gave up, I know, would've been somewhat better for the planets (as Marty of C-7 insisted), and the Tak even better yet, as would other longer focal lengths. Nonetheless, with the 6 Delos and 2x Barlow, I can get 180x, and straight with no-Barlow, the 3.5 Delos would get 154.3x (and of course crazy doubled). Given  my typical seeing, I probably couldn't get usefully higher, anyway. So this is fanning my hope.

 

So call me mad (I'm first in that line). But I just wanted to experience the aura and cachet of the TeleVue, its sleek and refined form factor and "see" for myself. I'm no dedicated, obsessive observer, just a peek-here-and-there basic amateur in my old age. Passing overhead and sliding down the slope to the West, I'm looking forward to seeing some of the best and brightest - M42, M45 (of course to both), M44, M35, even M13 and M31, as those all come high in my sky at the appropriate seasons or times. If I find it terribly disappointing for my situation, especially the moon and planets as compared with more appropriate scopes, I'll sell it, either on the open market (a royal pain) or back to Marty as I've done before. But I just have this sneaking suspicion - borne more of hope than reality - that the overall quality will "will out."cool.gif 

 

Regards, Rod

 

Meanwhile, I'll try to ignore the facts and specs until they're forced into my face, and then I'll face them!grin.gif Who knows, maybe I'll fall for this lady as she dazzles me with her wit and shine.

 

Regards, Rod


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#71 rodb

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Posted 14 February 2018 - 11:25 AM

That's my experience too Mike. Finest visual detail at high powers is were the Tak doublets shine, low power widest field is the NP101's forte, per inch of aperture of course. And because of their modest bulk, these get a lot of time under the stars for instruments that have to be carried outside to observe.

Yeah, and for me I want the least poundage for a GnG experience. The whole rig set up, as I've said, right next to my sliding glass very wide balcony door, and carried out the few steps for quick looks. Fully outfitted with the 2" diagonal and (the one) 2" EP - Pan 35mm, RACI, rings, mount/tripod - weight = about 29-30#. Not too bad.

 

My Orion StarSeeker mount, is, however, not conducive to that ease as it requires power for digital slewing, even if not doing the goto functions, therefore extension wire from outlet near the door to the scope, and having to always be aware of not getting ensnared in it. With this new NP101, I may replace the Orion mount (weight = 13.6#) with one of those excellent, "silky smooth" slo mo alt/az, such as the Agena GSO SkyView Deluxe or the Vixen Sky Guy Porta Mount II with beefed up tripod or the iOptron. Problem is that Marty only sells the Vixen of those mentioned nor all the other alt az slo mo mounts. But their advantages are no power/cord and more intuitive slo mo controls rather than using hand controller to slew with buttons.

 

Rod


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#72 Crow Haven

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Posted 14 February 2018 - 12:43 PM

Rod, "Enjoy the view!" grin.gif


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#73 la200o

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Posted 14 February 2018 - 02:30 PM

rodb--

 

I think you'll find that you're giving up very little to longer focal length doublets; the NP 101 handles high mags very well--of course you do have to use the right eyepieces and/or barlow or powermate.  Another advantage to the NP is that due to the wide field, if you are not using a driven mount, things stay longer in the FOV.  There are many excellent 4" refractors out there, but the NP is as good as any, and will do things other can't. 


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#74 rodb

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Posted 14 February 2018 - 04:03 PM

rodb--

 

I think you'll find that you're giving up very little to longer focal length doublets; the NP 101 handles high mags very well--of course you do have to use the right eyepieces and/or barlow or powermate.  Another advantage to the NP is that due to the wide field, if you are not using a driven mount, things stay longer in the FOV.  There are many excellent 4" refractors out there, but the NP is as good as any, and will do things other can't. 

Yes, thanks. That's what I'm counting on. My guy Marty of C-7 will be back in the store tomorrow (Thursday) and so we should be able to work things out with the transfer of the Orion and the new billing for the TV. At this point, even if he were to order the TV right away, it still wouldn't arrive at his store until sometime next week, and then it'll have to be tested. I'm in no rush given the mostly lousy weather, and I'll see whether he can hold off billing me after my next Visa billing cycle begins March 7.

 

Rod


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#75 dr.who

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Posted 14 February 2018 - 04:07 PM

Rod -

 

It's a great scope! Enjoy it!




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