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eVScope - Entry Level EAA?

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#1 Rac19

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Posted 28 February 2018 - 05:20 AM

This looks looks to me like a sort of 4.5” “HyperStar” type of scope. The electronic eyepiece, electronic magnification adjustment (digital zoom?) and portability are interesting. 

 

I think that the close up images of a dwarf plant or asteroid could be “a little misleading”.

 

This particular device isn’t for me but, having spent some time (and money) settimg up my Evolution 8 for EEA, I think that there could be more offerings designed to be EAA off the shelf.

 

https://www.kickstar...n-a-classical-t

 

See https://www.cloudyni...d-visual-setup/ #676 and #696 for images of my setup..t

 

EDIT: It seems also to have auto alignment (I assume based on plate solving) and de-rotation of images, Just how good the end result is, is another question.


Edited by Rac19, 28 February 2018 - 04:17 PM.


#2 Adun

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Posted 28 February 2018 - 06:25 AM

 I think that there could be more offerings designed to be EAA off the shelf.

 

There are some: https://www.cloudyni...-setup-part-ii/

 

How they are marketed is... Well, just marketing.

 

The cheapest setup (mine) is sadly no longer sold by Orion.



#3 HarryRik9

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Posted 28 February 2018 - 08:07 AM

Seen this before about a year ago.



#4 OleCuss

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Posted 28 February 2018 - 09:08 AM

I think that most who really understand the equipment and how to optimize a system will find that this first Unistellar version just isn't going to be a great option for them.

 

This is more for the person who has the money to buy the thing, wants a turnkey system, and is not thinking about being able to upgrade componentry or to fine-tune their FOV, etc.

 

I sincerely hope they sell a whole lot of those cameras (by the tens of millions!) but they are going to be a bit hampered.

 

Do note that Vaonis is wanting to sell the Stellina which will also be pretty cool but quite limited in its own ways as well.

 

If these cameras look to be selling really well, I'd expect Meade and Synta to jump into the market as well.

 
 
 



#5 Rac19

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Posted 28 February 2018 - 02:23 PM

Agreed that evScope has a self limiting design with few (if any) options to enhance it, I think that it is interesting though. It’s a bit like choosing belween a point and shoot and DSLR camera, both will take decent photos but the DSLR has a wider range of possibilities. To me the blurb is a bit over done.



#6 Relativist

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Posted 28 February 2018 - 04:05 PM

The thing the EV does is go fully into the electrotelescope realm, designed from the ground up with EAA in mind. We have seen that done here in some DIY threads over the years.

I’m glad to see this entry. I do wish they would have interacted here more. I hope they deliver and can push EAA further in the future.

#7 moshen

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Posted 28 February 2018 - 05:43 PM

A few CN members have stated they have one on order. I look forward to their reports. I think a packed turnkey scope like this is really going to open a new segment to the hobby If they manage to execute it well.


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#8 Rac19

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Posted 28 February 2018 - 06:49 PM

A few CN members have stated they have one on order. I look forward to their reports. I think a packed turnkey scope like this is really going to open a new segment to the hobby If they manage to execute it well.

I agree, I don't think that the current offerings quite offer a complete package yet, not for EAA at leas. I think that it would bring in a whole new cohort of amateur astronomers.


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#9 Astrojedi

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Posted 28 February 2018 - 08:17 PM

For 90% of the population astronomy equipment is too hard / too technical to use. I am for any technology / solution that brings more people into the hobby and creates awareness.

 

*If* executed well this scope could do just that. And this is a big *if* as this is a complex systems problem for such a small startup to solve in way that results in scopes which are reliable and truly plug n play. But I am rooting for them.


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#10 Rac19

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Posted 28 February 2018 - 08:37 PM

For 90% of the population astronomy equipment is too hard / too technical to use. I am for any technology / solution that brings more people into the hobby and creates awareness.

 

*If* executed well this scope could do just that. And this is a big *if* as this is a complex systems problem for such a small startup to solve in way that results in scopes which are reliable and truly plug n play. But I am rooting for them.

I that is the big IF. I had dreams of operating my Evolution 8 (viewing on  computer screen, capturing images etc) from the comfort of the indoors where I purchased it. To be fair to Celestron, my expectations exceeded the published capabilities of the product, but I am sure that other newbies have a similar experience. If packages start to become available that meet those expectations, it has to be a good thing. I am not sure that evScope is necessarily that package, but is it a step or two closer..



#11 OleCuss

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Posted 28 February 2018 - 08:58 PM

OK, I think I may have sounded pretty skeptical and might have been part of what triggered some posts sort of defending the Unistellar unit.

 

Please do understand that I believe it is a very good thing that this is being done.  It is important for astronomy in general that someone or someones do this.  If the price point is acceptable to a whole lot of people it will expand both the base of amateur astronomers and their visibility.  The popularity will expand more than will amateur astronomy itself.  We all benefit even if this is not the unit for more dedicated astronomers.

 

So I really and truly hope they sell these things in huge quantities.

 

It would not stun me in the slightest if I got a later version of the eVscope (or something similar) for use at public outreach star parties.  More likely to happen if there is an upgrade path, but maybe even if there is not.

 

I really and truly meant it when I said I hope they sell tens of millions of the things.  Well, OK, maybe not because I'd probably really wish it was by the hundreds of millions if not a billion or more.  Tens of millions, however, would still be an enormous benefit and hoping for even hundreds of thousands is probably being overly hopeful.

 

I'm truly a big fan of the Unistellar unit, but this first version is not for me and maybe none of the future ones will be either.  But I think there will be a whole lot of people who will thoroughly enjoy the eVscope and I will understand why they do.

 

And don't forget that the Stellina is out there as well.

 

I think that the odds are good that we are entering a new era in which amateur astronomy will be moving more into highly automated NRTV cameras (and I consider the eVscope and Stellina to be cameras).  People will be able to flip a switch and after a bit of thinking on the part of camera it will show people anything they want within the reach of that camera.  Sort of like my LS-8 but with a sensor and digital display instead of an eyepiece.

 

I will be very happy but a little frustrated if 7-10 years from now the people who are in amateur astronomy greatly outnumber us old fogies who know how to put together a system, set up all the components, align the system for tracking, and make adjustments for better performance.  It just may happen.


Edited by OleCuss, 28 February 2018 - 08:59 PM.

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#12 Phil Cowell

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Posted 04 March 2018 - 07:41 AM

 

I think that most who really understand the equipment and how to optimize a system will find that this first Unistellar version just isn't going to be a great option for them.

 

This is more for the person who has the money to buy the thing, wants a turnkey system, and is not thinking about being able to upgrade componentry or to fine-tune their FOV, etc.

 

I sincerely hope they sell a whole lot of those cameras (by the tens of millions!) but they are going to be a bit hampered.

 

Do note that Vaonis is wanting to sell the Stellina which will also be pretty cool but quite limited in its own ways as well.

 

If these cameras look to be selling really well, I'd expect Meade and Synta to jump into the market as well.

 
 
 

 

They are targeting the SkyScout audience. Also this is more a product once price drops for the folks who enjoy a turnkey solution. No need to learn Starhopping, automated setup and works with existing devices most folks own.

There is a LOT of push back against this by some of the old school/


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#13 moshen

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Posted 04 March 2018 - 01:47 PM

 

I will be very happy but a little frustrated if 7-10 years from now the people who are in amateur astronomy greatly outnumber us old fogies who know how to put together a system, set up all the components, align the system for tracking, and make adjustments for better performance.  It just may happen.

I felt this same way when all the ready-to-fly 'drones' came on the market and opened the R/C hobby to millions of consumers. I've been in R/C for a long time, can put together my own systems from scratch and fly them very well. I realized what really bugged me was all the irresponsible flying from folks that never went through the hobby the 'traditional' route that started to give the entire flying hobby a bad name. 

But for amateur astronomy? Doesn't make a difference to me if a ton more people get into it but have no idea how to build their own systems or align, etc. That's honestly the kind of ease of use that will make the endeavor more mainstream. There will always be hobbyists who want to go the more advanced route.

 

There are still HAM radio hobbyists out there. But it's great you don't need to put together your own radio system and learn all the radio jargon to be able to talk to someone half way around the world today.


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#14 Rac19

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Posted 04 March 2018 - 03:04 PM

 

I will be very happy but a little frustrated if 7-10 years from now the people who are in amateur astronomy greatly outnumber us old fogies who know how to put together a system, set up all the components, align the system for tracking, and make adjustments for better performance.  It just may happen.

 

 

They are targeting the SkyScout audience. Also this is more a product once price drops for the folks who enjoy a turnkey solution. No need to learn Starhopping, automated setup and works with existing devices most folks own.
There is a LOT of push back against this by some of the old school/

I think that the eVScope is quite a bit more expensive than SkyScou. It has more onboard computing and probably requires less expertise to get it working. I think too that the blurb possibly sets expectations higher than the product can deliver. The only way to find out is to try it of course.

 

I come from the ranks of the old fogies, probably “second generation” EAA. I am very satisfied with my setup, developed over a year or so. I am happy to to see complete EAA packages, such as this, come onto the market for those who don’t want the experience of building their own system. It’s a bit like choosing between a point and shoot camera or a DSLR camera in my opinion.



#15 OleCuss

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Posted 04 March 2018 - 04:22 PM

 

 

I will be very happy but a little frustrated if 7-10 years from now the people who are in amateur astronomy greatly outnumber us old fogies who know how to put together a system, set up all the components, align the system for tracking, and make adjustments for better performance.  It just may happen.

I felt this same way when all the ready-to-fly 'drones' came on the market and opened the R/C hobby to millions of consumers. I've been in R/C for a long time, can put together my own systems from scratch and fly them very well. I realized what really bugged me was all the irresponsible flying from folks that never went through the hobby the 'traditional' route that started to give the entire flying hobby a bad name. 

But for amateur astronomy? Doesn't make a difference to me if a ton more people get into it but have no idea how to build their own systems or align, etc. That's honestly the kind of ease of use that will make the endeavor more mainstream. There will always be hobbyists who want to go the more advanced route.

 

There are still HAM radio hobbyists out there. But it's great you don't need to put together your own radio system and learn all the radio jargon to be able to talk to someone half way around the world today.

 

I think you have it pretty nailed down.

 

Understand, the part that will frustrate me is not that they will have instruments which are ridiculously easy to use.  The frustrating part is that they'll be thinking they are experienced and knowledgeable astronomers because they have the automated scope and will be asserting or asking even more dumb things than I do - and do it at an immense volume.

 

It'll be worth it, though, because we need a huge expansion of amateur astronomy if our kids and/or grandkids are going to have any idea how the night sky should appear.  We simply haven't the clout to make it happen but if we can get many millions more coming into the ranks of amateur astronomy we may develop the opportunity to preserve or maybe even to create some dark skies.


Edited by OleCuss, 04 March 2018 - 04:23 PM.

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#16 ccs_hello

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Posted 04 March 2018 - 04:24 PM

Well, now if adding the old/original eVscope posts together, the number should be high enough.

 

Still, do we have a report on the proud owner(s) showing up explaining how it works, how great it is, or

we are still in holding pattern and still looking for what's there at the end of the rainbow.

 

Other than that, what's the point of debating on unknown???

(either it;s like "if it works, it's revolutionary", or "just hanging in there, few thousand dollars spend so there is hope")


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#17 moshen

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Posted 04 March 2018 - 04:39 PM

It's not out yet. And I'd expect it'd take a few iterations for the product to be truly polished. But the early adopters are important so there is a second version, etc.

 

Even if they spur the larger makers like Celestron to make their own version, it will be an advancement of ease of use.

 

There will definitely be reports on CN when it comes out since a few here said they have ordered it.



#18 OleCuss

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Posted 04 March 2018 - 04:55 PM

Well, now if adding the old/original eVscope posts together, the number should be high enough.

 

Still, do we have a report on the proud owner(s) showing up explaining how it works, how great it is, or

we are still in holding pattern and still looking for what's there at the end of the rainbow.

 

Other than that, what's the point of debating on unknown???

(either it;s like "if it works, it's revolutionary", or "just hanging in there, few thousand dollars spend so there is hope")

Yeah, one could argue that we've discussed the eVscope ad nauseum.  Right now the thing is largely vaporware and is thus arguably irrelevant since it is possible that not one will be produced.

 

I think, however, that there is still some value in working on the awareness of what is coming and hopefully being more prepared as a result.  Hopefully a ton of people will buy the things and will start to find their way into the fora and we'll need to have some idea of how to work with people who have expensive and highly automated instruments and little knowledge of how they work or what they are looking at.  There is both frustration and opportunity in this.

 

I suspect, however, that it will be our moderators who will do the debating regarding the (hopefully large) influx of people with the eVscope and Stellina cameras and any similar products and how best to ensure that everyone has healthy, friendly, and productive discussions.  The simple thing is to say that they are doing NRTV but most of us doing that are operating at a different level and in a different manner than will the owners of such instruments and the fit may not be all that ideal (or could prove to be awesome?).  But thinking about it beforehand and knowing what is coming will help us to be more helpful when the vaporware becomes real.

 

Oh, and my Tiny1/TinyMOS is supposed to be shipping soon.  Lots and lots of problems with the camera as they work through things.  I think they will get the software/firmware sorted out and it will be a fine (although limited) piece of equipment but people who buy into developmental systems like this need to be prepared for initial pains/problems.

 

Similar initial problems/pains could very well overwhelm the ability of Unistellar or Vaonis to handle and there is a good chance that we'll have a lot of frustrated people with relatively poor understanding of the underlying issues coming to the astronomy fora looking answers.  It'll be a great opportunity if we can handle it well.


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#19 Phil Cowell

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Posted 04 March 2018 - 09:17 PM

 

 

I will be very happy but a little frustrated if 7-10 years from now the people who are in amateur astronomy greatly outnumber us old fogies who know how to put together a system, set up all the components, align the system for tracking, and make adjustments for better performance.  It just may happen.

 

 

They are targeting the SkyScout audience. Also this is more a product once price drops for the folks who enjoy a turnkey solution. No need to learn Starhopping, automated setup and works with existing devices most folks own.
There is a LOT of push back against this by some of the old school/

I think that the eVScope is quite a bit more expensive than SkyScou. It has more onboard computing and probably requires less expertise to get it working. I think too that the blurb possibly sets expectations higher than the product can deliver. The only way to find out is to try it of course.

 

I come from the ranks of the old fogies, probably “second generation” EAA. I am very satisfied with my setup, developed over a year or so. I am happy to to see complete EAA packages, such as this, come onto the market for those who don’t want the experience of building their own system. It’s a bit like choosing between a point and shoot camera or a DSLR camera in my opinion.

 

Agree on price my point was a turnkey solution. Take outside, turn on wait a bit and it’s ready to do it’s thing. The SkyScout analogy was to provide a simple solution for those who don’t want the learning curve, just the functionality. By old school I meant the not goto, no tracking fully manual crew, who believe everyone should only star hop and if the photon is not hitting the eye it’s not real. Some are quite hostile.


Edited by Phil Cowell, 04 March 2018 - 09:20 PM.


#20 Phil Cowell

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Posted 04 March 2018 - 09:21 PM

It's not out yet. And I'd expect it'd take a few iterations for the product to be truly polished. But the early adopters are important so there is a second version, etc.

 

Even if they spur the larger makers like Celestron to make their own version, it will be an advancement of ease of use.

 

There will definitely be reports on CN when it comes out since a few here said they have ordered it.

Celestron have all the parts. It’s more an integration exercise for them. My guess if they see the market is there something will quickly follow.



#21 Stargazer3236

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Posted 07 March 2018 - 02:21 PM

I heard about this last year. But I already have invested so much in my current EAA set up, it would not be worth it.


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#22 KarlL

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Posted 08 March 2018 - 02:52 PM

It reminds me of those “binoculars” or observation telescopes found in public places. No apparent focusing adjustment.

 

My gut tells me that some will be sold, but not very many. Setting it up & actually using it will still take effort and interest.



#23 Rac19

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Posted 08 March 2018 - 03:02 PM

I heard about this last year. But I already have invested so much in my current EAA set up, it would not be worth it.

Me too. I am quite happy with the EAA setup that I have developed for myself and don’t see this as a replacement. I think that it is probably new class of ‘scooe will grow though. As I mentioned earlier, I see as a “Point and Shoot” equivalent in the world of astrophotography.



#24 Rac19

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Posted 08 March 2018 - 03:05 PM

It reminds me of those “binoculars” or observation telescopes found in public places. No apparent focusing adjustment.

 

My gut tells me that some will be sold, but not very many. Setting it up & actually using it will still take effort and interest.

Surely there must be a focus mechanism. Perhaps it is  accessible by only software (manual and/or automatic) with no physical focus knob.


Edited by Rac19, 08 March 2018 - 06:41 PM.


#25 KarlL

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Posted 08 March 2018 - 06:03 PM

Probably. That’s a “viewport”, not really an eyepiece. A screen integral to the tube body would be preferable for ME.




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