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Skyguider Pro fun topic, info, pics you name it

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#351 C&Hobbs

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Posted 10 September 2019 - 08:39 AM

I think the general consensus is that the WO upgraded mount is far superior to the stock base. https://williamoptic...tyle-base-mount

 

At ~188$ it is almost half the cost of the mount itself. So it wasn't worth it to me; as I am able to adequately polar align within 5 minutes. With my focal length, it doesn't matter if I get an "excellent" polar align every time. It is good enough for what I am doing. At some point it is diminishing returns on exposure lengths.

 

If you can obtain 4 minute subs with great stars on the SkyGuider within several minutes of adjustment I would call it a day and not worry about the added cost. Just my opinion though.

 

Great picture!



#352 feygan

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Posted 10 September 2019 - 01:31 PM

Hey guys,

 

I'm gonna start by saying that I love the Skyguider PRO and I really really hate the original iOptron base. I'm using it with a William Optics Zenithstar 61 and a Sony A6300 unmodded mirrorless camera and the results I got with this gear setup are pretty acceptable.

 

Lately I'm running into a problem that I've seen it before in some post that I can't seem to find again. Every 4th or 5th sub I have to throw away because of elongated stars. The pictures below are taken one after the other and as you can see, the second picture has elongated stars but the first and third are ok. Any idea how can I tackle this?

 

_PRU0104-2.jpg

_PRU0170-2.jpg

_PRU0171.jpg

 

Here is my latest shot is of the Pleiades, M45, on a really hot summer night (29 Celsius), so quite noisy. Astrobin link: https://www.astrobin.com/vai7zn/0/

 

 



#353 blemasle

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Posted 11 September 2019 - 12:08 PM

Hello again folks!

 

New season is here and I decided to add to auto guiding for my SGP setup. I settled for ASI 120mm Mini Mono and QHYCCD MiniGuideScope. Also acquired second counter weight. Have been testing with PHD2 and polar aligning SharpCap Pro. Works like charm! Auto guiding and accurate PA really makes the difference. I get tighter stars with 4 minute guided subs than 1 minute unguided with my 300mm Tair and APS-C sized Canon. I pondered for a long time whether I should add the complexity of my setup with laptop and additional scope, but surely it was worth it. My only complaint is really tedious polar aligning with SharpCap with iOptron wedge. Takes loooong for me to nail the PA, as the wedge is horrible. You guys who use SharpCap (or PoleMaster etc), do you have any tips or tricks for micro adjustments when aligning? Do you even use the original iOptron wedge or have you replaced it? 

 

Here's a photo of my setup, and a shot of Pleaides from week ago (35 x 4 minute subs autoguided).

 

 
 
 

 

Full res version and techinal card in Astrobin: https://www.astrobin.../full/0ezooa/0/

 

-Tahvo

Hi Tahvo,

 

Very nice picture! I myself have a Tair 3S. Well, to be fair, I found out about that lens because you posted a picture of it a while ago ! wink.gif

Trouble is, the only solution I found to mount it on the Skyguider was to by a set of mounting rings and a dovetail bar to mount the guidescope parrallel to the lens.

 

With that configuration, the skyguider isn't very well balanced and go past the minute exposure mark. I had to set back to my takumar 200m f4 for the time being. frown.gif

Would you mind sharing the mouting ring & accesories you're using with your Tair ? laugh.gif

 

Regards

Attached Thumbnails

  • skyguider-tair.jpg


#354 kitka

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Posted 11 September 2019 - 01:35 PM

Hi Tahvo,

 

Very nice picture! I myself have a Tair 3S. Well, to be fair, I found out about that lens because you posted a picture of it a while ago ! wink.gif

Trouble is, the only solution I found to mount it on the Skyguider was to by a set of mounting rings and a dovetail bar to mount the guidescope parrallel to the lens.

 

With that configuration, the skyguider isn't very well balanced and go past the minute exposure mark. I had to set back to my takumar 200m f4 for the time being. frown.gif

Would you mind sharing the mouting ring & accesories you're using with your Tair ? laugh.gif

 

Regards

 

Hi Blemasle,

 

Thank you! I don't have mounting rings for Tair. I do have a long vixen dovetail plate, and I attach my DSLR and Tair with screws directly to it. The vixen plate is bulky, so I had to reverse the RA axis thingy to allow free rotation around the mount. After I added the guiding scope, I needed to buy a second 1.35kg counter weight to get things balanced. My guide scope mounting plate is attached with rubber gaskets and cable ties. lol.gif The red thingy around the focus ring is some kind of rubber jar opener. It gives me nice grip. Here are some photos of my setup, I hope it clears a bit. https://photos.app.g...UsM7zaa8xzQcHG6

 

Your setup looks a bit heavy. Are you struggling with RA or declination balance? If it's RA, then another iOptron counter weight could help you.

 

-Tahvo



#355 blemasle

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Posted 11 September 2019 - 02:58 PM

Hi Blemasle,

 

Thank you! I don't have mounting rings for Tair. I do have a long vixen dovetail plate, and I attach my DSLR and Tair with screws directly to it. The vixen plate is bulky, so I had to reverse the RA axis thingy to allow free rotation around the mount. After I added the guiding scope, I needed to buy a second 1.35kg counter weight to get things balanced. My guide scope mounting plate is attached with rubber gaskets and cable ties. lol.gif The red thingy around the focus ring is some kind of rubber jar opener. It gives me nice grip. Here are some photos of my setup, I hope it clears a bit. https://photos.app.g...UsM7zaa8xzQcHG6

 

Your setup looks a bit heavy. Are you struggling with RA or declination balance? If it's RA, then another iOptron counter weight could help you.

 

-Tahvo

 

Yeah, the dovetail bars plus the rings add around 1.5kg to the setup :/ That was the only option I could find that firmly maintained the Tair and the camera at the time.

I think the problem lies within declination balance, as PHD2 graph shows that is constantly drifting south.

Thanks for the pictures, It helps to get some inspiration from others with similar setups smile.gif

EDIT : do you use a 1/4 to 3/8 adapter to screw the Tair on the dovetail bar ? I just tried with one I had at hand, and I could barely remove the screw out :/


Edited by blemasle, 11 September 2019 - 03:22 PM.


#356 kitka

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Posted 12 September 2019 - 08:44 AM

Yeah, the dovetail bars plus the rings add around 1.5kg to the setup :/ That was the only option I could find that firmly maintained the Tair and the camera at the time.

I think the problem lies within declination balance, as PHD2 graph shows that is constantly drifting south.

Thanks for the pictures, It helps to get some inspiration from others with similar setups smile.gif

I am not expert on guiding, but constant drift to south could be due to polar misalignment. Are you using any PA aid like SharpCap Pro? Aligning only with SGP polar scope you could be surprisingly far off. If your RA graph looks OK (under 4" error), I suspect your balance is close enough. 

 

 

EDIT : do you use a 1/4 to 3/8 adapter to screw the Tair on the dovetail bar ? I just tried with one I had at hand, and I could barely remove the screw out :/

Oh yes, I do. These are great with Tair: https://uk.hama.com/...8-gs5000-silver . They're easy to remove with screwdriver.

 

Your setup is kind of cool, and it's definitely better with mounting rings. For me, I cannot rotate my camera at all when it's fixed into the plate. If I was you, I would still try to make your current setup work. Check the balance (both in RA and DEC). If RA seems lopsided, get another counterweight. Try to use SharpCap for PA if not already using.

 

-Tahvo



#357 blemasle

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Posted 13 September 2019 - 08:48 AM

I am not expert on guiding, but constant drift to south could be due to polar misalignment. Are you using any PA aid like SharpCap Pro? Aligning only with SGP polar scope you could be surprisingly far off. If your RA graph looks OK (under 4" error), I suspect your balance is close enough. 

 

 

Oh yes, I do. These are great with Tair: https://uk.hama.com/...8-gs5000-silver . They're easy to remove with screwdriver.

 

Your setup is kind of cool, and it's definitely better with mounting rings. For me, I cannot rotate my camera at all when it's fixed into the plate. If I was you, I would still try to make your current setup work. Check the balance (both in RA and DEC). If RA seems lopsided, get another counterweight. Try to use SharpCap for PA if not already using.

 

-Tahvo

I'm far from being an expert on guiding myself :p The RA graph did look fine, but the DEC line kept drifting downward. So If I'm understanding DEC legend correctly, my mount was drifting south right ?

 

I did not use a PA aid indeed. To be honest, I simply thought that my alignment was precise enough regarding the exposure time I was aiming for :D Might want to reconsider this.

But the iOptron base is really clumsy :/ Can you really achieve precise PA given the fact that depending on how you're tightening the base screws, the mount isn't exactly in the same position ??
 



#358 kitka

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Posted 13 September 2019 - 09:37 AM

I'm far from being an expert on guiding myself tongue2.gif The RA graph did look fine, but the DEC line kept drifting downward. So If I'm understanding DEC legend correctly, my mount was drifting south right ?

 

I did not use a PA aid indeed. To be honest, I simply thought that my alignment was precise enough regarding the exposure time I was aiming for laugh.gif Might want to reconsider this.

Well, there might be differences between units, but I don't trust my unit's polar scope much. IMHO at 300mm your alignment gets crucial. When I align it as good as I can, Sharp Cap Pro polar align tool might show anything between 3' to 17' polar align error. And that DOES affect max sub length based on my very non-scientific tests. You should give it a go, it's only 15$ USD and you can check your true polar align error in just couple of minutes. You can then adjust if it looks bad. Peter Zelinka has done a great job here showing how easy it is: https://youtu.be/6WuBKfo_KMo?t=742

 

 

But the iOptron base is really clumsy :/ Can you really achieve precise PA given the fact that depending on how you're tightening the base screws, the mount isn't exactly in the same position ??

It is clumsy, yes. I actually keep the base screws kind of half-tight (so that they just barely allow the mount rotating when turning the adjustment screws), then adjust, and then just leave them like that. It is stable enough that way. Tightening after adjustment will screw (pun intended) the adjustment for sure, at least for me. Of course, be careful and do this at your own risk. Also, I have seen a post where somebody tweaked the base somehow to get it function better, but I haven't bothered because half-tightening has worked for me.



#359 blemasle

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Posted 13 September 2019 - 05:02 PM

Well there is a good and a bad news :
The good news is, you we right about the PA. With the help of Sharpcap I managed to reach nearly 10 minutes exposure @ 300mm unguided ! :O
The bad news is, I'm afraid something is wrong or broken with either my mount or my camera : I wasn't able to calibrate either PHD2 or Kstars for guiding tonight. Didn't matter the platform (ASCOM or INDI) nor the software. It just seems that the mount did not respond to the slew commands. Either that or the ST4 connection between the camera and the mount is to blame frown.gif

PHD2 kept screaming "RA Calibration Failed: star did not move enough" at me, and Kstars reported a similar issue. And indeed, I could barely see stars moving on the screen during the calibration process.
Any idea on how to diagnose where the problem is coming from ?

#360 lucutes

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Posted 13 September 2019 - 08:25 PM

Hey guys,

 

I'm gonna start by saying that I love the Skyguider PRO and I really really hate the original iOptron base. I'm using it with a William Optics Zenithstar 61 and a Sony A6300 unmodded mirrorless camera and the results I got with this gear setup are pretty acceptable.

 

Lately I'm running into a problem that I've seen it before in some post that I can't seem to find again. Every 4th or 5th sub I have to throw away because of elongated stars. The pictures below are taken one after the other and as you can see, the second picture has elongated stars but the first and third are ok. Any idea how can I tackle this?

 

attachicon.gif _PRU0104-2.jpg

attachicon.gif _PRU0170-2.jpg

attachicon.gif _PRU0171.jpg

 

Here is my latest shot is of the Pleiades, M45, on a really hot summer night (29 Celsius), so quite noisy. Astrobin link: https://www.astrobin.com/vai7zn/0/

SubframeSelector in Pixinsight. lol

But I haven't noticed any major elongation but I am now guiding on the SGP. The biggest issues I have had are balancing the DEC.



#361 kitka

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Posted 14 September 2019 - 02:11 AM

Well there is a good and a bad news :
The good news is, you we right about the PA. With the help of Sharpcap I managed to reach nearly 10 minutes exposure @ 300mm unguided ! :O
The bad news is, I'm afraid something is wrong or broken with either my mount or my camera : I wasn't able to calibrate either PHD2 or Kstars for guiding tonight. Didn't matter the platform (ASCOM or INDI) nor the software. It just seems that the mount did not respond to the slew commands. Either that or the ST4 connection between the camera and the mount is to blame frown.gif

PHD2 kept screaming "RA Calibration Failed: star did not move enough" at me, and Kstars reported a similar issue. And indeed, I could barely see stars moving on the screen during the calibration process.
Any idea on how to diagnose where the problem is coming from ?

That's great to hear, you are making great progress! I don't think there's anything wrong with your mount. I had the same error when I tried to guide for the first time. I think it was because I had accidentally tossed the mount and lost polar alignment. When I tried the second time, everything was OK. You really don't see much movement, because ST4 guide speed is 0.5x by default, and SGP is constantly tracking with 1x speed. Every time SGP receives a guide pulse from PHD, red indicator light blinks on the SGP. If I recall correctly, you can test this with PHD manual guide tool. Bear in mind that you won't see any movement on the screen, but if the indicator light on SGP blinks when sending a command, your system is probably functioning correctly.

 

The only way I found to verify the guiding is to use ASICAP software. My guidecam is ASI, and I am not sure whether ASICAP works with your guidecam. But in ASICAP there is very simple autoguiding tool, where you can click arrow buttons to send guide commands and watch the camera output at the same time. If you set the guiding speed from SGP to 0.5x, you should see the screen slowly rotating to east. Now, if you keep clicking in bursts to west, the screen should stay still. If you keep clicking in bursts to east, the screen should rotate with double speed to east. I did this test indoors for convenience, and had only the guide scope on the mount (attached with scotch tape).



#362 blemasle

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Posted 14 September 2019 - 04:09 AM

That's great to hear, you are making great progress! I don't think there's anything wrong with your mount. I had the same error when I tried to guide for the first time. I think it was because I had accidentally tossed the mount and lost polar alignment. When I tried the second time, everything was OK. You really don't see much movement, because ST4 guide speed is 0.5x by default, and SGP is constantly tracking with 1x speed. Every time SGP receives a guide pulse from PHD, red indicator light blinks on the SGP. If I recall correctly, you can test this with PHD manual guide tool. Bear in mind that you won't see any movement on the screen, but if the indicator light on SGP blinks when sending a command, your system is probably functioning correctly.

 

The only way I found to verify the guiding is to use ASICAP software. My guidecam is ASI, and I am not sure whether ASICAP works with your guidecam. But in ASICAP there is very simple autoguiding tool, where you can click arrow buttons to send guide commands and watch the camera output at the same time. If you set the guiding speed from SGP to 0.5x, you should see the screen slowly rotating to east. Now, if you keep clicking in bursts to west, the screen should stay still. If you keep clicking in bursts to east, the screen should rotate with double speed to east. I did this test indoors for convenience, and had only the guide scope on the mount (attached with scotch tape).

I agree you won't see it move during guiding. But during the calibration phase, you can clearly see it move, and it has to move to calibrate properly. PHD2 is moving your mount on purpose so it can figure how it needs to move (in which direction and how much) to keep your mount aligned with your guide star. On previous runs, the guide star went past the little square back and forth during the calibration phase. Yesterday, it didn't move more than a few pixel.

 

I might have another window to test that out tonight, and in the meantime have a look at ASICAP. I was looking for such software to test manual guiding the mount and see where the problem would come from. I did remember seeing the red light blinking yesterday, but it was like the mount didn't move accordingly... :/

 

EDIT : just saw that PHD2 also has a manual guide tool. I can clearly hear the motor speed changing when I guide east or west so the mount is working. I don't know what went wrong yesterday evening...


Edited by blemasle, 14 September 2019 - 04:16 AM.


#363 kitka

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Posted 14 September 2019 - 04:45 AM

I agree you won't see it move during guiding. But during the calibration phase, you can clearly see it move, and it has to move to calibrate properly. PHD2 is moving your mount on purpose so it can figure how it needs to move (in which direction and how much) to keep your mount aligned with your guide star. On previous runs, the guide star went past the little square back and forth during the calibration phase. Yesterday, it didn't move more than a few pixel.

 

I might have another window to test that out tonight, and in the meantime have a look at ASICAP. I was looking for such software to test manual guiding the mount and see where the problem would come from. I did remember seeing the red light blinking yesterday, but it was like the mount didn't move accordingly... :/

 

EDIT : just saw that PHD2 also has a manual guide tool. I can clearly hear the motor speed changing when I guide east or west so the mount is working. I don't know what went wrong yesterday evening...

Yep, I know how PHD2 works and how it behaves during calibration. But did you point your scope to the same destination? Think about how stars trail around the pole. The movement in pixels is not the same for two stars that are closer and further away from Polaris. You know, they trail like this: http://www.astropix....ipod/trails.jpg . Thus, the amount of pixel movement you see on the screen during the calibration varies.



#364 blemasle

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Posted 14 September 2019 - 05:16 AM

Yep, I know how PHD2 works and how it behaves during calibration.


Your previous message seems to imply you we're talking about moving during the guiding phase. My apologies if I misunderstood you smile.gif
 

But did you point your scope to the same destination? Think about how stars trail around the pole. The movement in pixels is not the same for two stars that are closer and further away from Polaris. You know, they trail like this: http://www.astropix....ipod/trails.jpg . Thus, the amount of pixel movement you see on the screen during the calibration varies.


As I was just looking for a bright star to achieve focus first and leave it there for my test session, maybe I just aimed at polaris grin.gif Which is totally dumb cause my exposure time will have to be smaller when I moved away from for real imaging sessions.
Anyway, after 61 calibration steps, PHD2 registered a distance of only 2.5px where it should have been at least 25px.

Guess I have to wait until tonight and see it then smile.gif

Attached Thumbnails

  • calibration-good.jpg
  • calibration-bad.jpg


#365 kitka

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Posted 14 September 2019 - 05:31 AM

Your previous message seems to imply you we're talking about moving during the guiding phase. My apologies if I misunderstood you smile.gif

No worries, I was a bit unclear there myself. smile.gif

 

As I was just looking for a bright star to achieve focus first and leave it there for my test session, maybe I just aimed at polaris grin.gif Which is totally dumb cause my exposure time will have to be smaller when I moved away from for real imaging sessions.
Anyway, after 61 calibration steps, PHD2 registered a distance of only 2.5px where it should have been at least 25px.

Yes, this was what I was thinking also, that would explain sharp stars @ 10 minutes unguided. In fact, now when I think about it, during my first imaging session when I got the same error, I aimed pretty close the pole as well. Not Polaris, but not far either, if I remember correctly. I think we had the same issue. Maybe the default calibration settings in PHD need some tweaking when aiming close the pole...

 

Guess I have to wait until tonight and see it then smile.gif

Good luck! I think it will be success this time. smile.gif

 

-Tahvo



#366 blemasle

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Posted 14 September 2019 - 05:40 AM

No worries, I was a bit unclear there myself. smile.gif
 
Yes, this was what I was thinking also, that would explain sharp stars @ 10 minutes unguided. In fact, now when I think about it, during my first imaging session when I got the same error, I aimed pretty close the pole as well. Not Polaris, but not far either, if I remember correctly. I think we had the same issue. Maybe the default calibration settings in PHD need some tweaking when aiming close the pole...
 
Good luck! I think it will be success this time. smile.gif
 
-Tahvo


Ahah. Could not have been closer to polaris laugh.gif http://nova.astromet...058346#original
So dumb, it should have been obvious that leaving the mount there would get me in trouble ^^

Another rookie mistake I won't make anymore!

#367 4jack9

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Posted 16 September 2019 - 11:28 AM

Out of stock??

Does anyone know why the Sky Guider Pro is unavailable? I have been trying to order since early spring. I’m told it’s popular and on backorder but this seems a bit long now. Any ideas where I could get one?

Thanks,

Jack



#368 jerobe

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Posted 16 September 2019 - 01:31 PM

Jack, I bought one last month from BH Photo. They were shown as out of stock at the online astronomy stores but BH had the SGPs in stock so I ordered from them.



#369 blemasle

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Posted 18 September 2019 - 04:52 PM

Well, the weather has been a bit unstable lately but I finaly was able to confirm that all is working well indeed. Sadly, I couldn't take a single long exposure frame before the clouds started to roll in :/

In the meantime, I processed some data from a month ago. It was a very clear but very hot (around 30°C) night, but the first in months without clouds. I'm still struggling with PixInsight and I'm not really satisfied with the result... But hey, first result with an auto guided setup smile.gif I choosed Andromeda for such training cause it's easy to find, and there is a lot of processing example out there to get inspiration.

 

67 frames @ 3m30s ISO 800

https://www.astrobin.com/bzd7u5/0/

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  • Andromeda-1.jpg

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#370 feygan

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Posted 19 September 2019 - 12:50 AM

Hey guys,

 

I'm gonna start by saying that I love the Skyguider PRO and I really really hate the original iOptron base. I'm using it with a William Optics Zenithstar 61 and a Sony A6300 unmodded mirrorless camera and the results I got with this gear setup are pretty acceptable.

 

Lately I'm running into a problem that I've seen it before in some post that I can't seem to find again. Every 4th or 5th sub I have to throw away because of elongated stars. The pictures below are taken one after the other and as you can see, the second picture has elongated stars but the first and third are ok. Any idea how can I tackle this?

 

attachicon.gif _PRU0104-2.jpg

attachicon.gif _PRU0170-2.jpg

attachicon.gif _PRU0171.jpg

 

Here is my latest shot is of the Pleiades, M45, on a really hot summer night (29 Celsius), so quite noisy. Astrobin link: https://www.astrobin.com/vai7zn/0/

I've sent iOptron a message and they suspect that there might be some dirt on the worm that caused jump. They recommend I clean the worm and re-grease it



#371 Poochpa

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Posted 06 October 2019 - 10:19 AM

I'm trying to decide which Telegizmos 365 cover to get for my Skyguider Pro, with a DSLR and telephoto lens/small refractor (max 12"L), mounted on a Bogen tripod.  I'd like the cover to come down enough to go over the counterweight bar. Thanks for any recs.

Mike




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