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16" Dobsonian, recommended eyepieces?

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#1 chalmene

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Posted 13 March 2018 - 02:51 PM

Just acquired my 16" Skywatcher Dob (1800mm focal length), and looking to start my 2" eyepiece collection. I'm looking at Explore Scientific and Televue, any experiences or recommendations on size or particular model is appreciated. What sizes are most common with a scope of this size and focal length?

 

Thanks in advance


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#2 photoracer18

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Posted 13 March 2018 - 03:06 PM

Most objects are still viewed at the same powers regardless of the size of the scope. You need to work with that 1800mm focal length to come up with 50-100-200-300x powers for your scope. And maybe 400x and 500x if you have access to decently dark skies. Otherwise stick to 300x and under.

#3 Astro-Master

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Posted 13 March 2018 - 03:52 PM

If you like looking at galaxies, I'd get a good used or new 17mm Ethos, about $500 to $600.  Also a Tele Vue big

barlow, and a 2 inch by 1 1/2 inch extender.  The 17mm would give a power of 106x and almost 1 degree field.

With the barlow and the 17mm, about 232x and a nice flat 100 degree apparent field at F9.5.  Using the 2" extender

in front of the barlow with the 17mm gives a 2.62x from the barlow .  This gives a power of 277x and a focal ratio

of F11.5.  Using this power on a good dark night on M 51 will blow you away.  The whole galaxy fills the 100 degree

field, and at F11.5 the field is flat and the eye relief is prefect.  I've used this same set up on my 18" Obsession

and everybody says its the best view.


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#4 TOMDEY

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Posted 13 March 2018 - 04:01 PM

A TeleVue Paracorr T2, 31mm Nagler and some shorter Naglers! Hmmm... $$$... ?  Tom


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#5 havasman

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Posted 13 March 2018 - 04:20 PM

Full set of APM HDC's + 31T5 = DONE


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#6 Codbear

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Posted 13 March 2018 - 04:43 PM

I asked Rob Teeter the same question when I bought his 16" f4.5 he used for outreach and he recommended the Nagler 31mm, and Etho 17mm, 13mm and 8mm.

 

They have worked spectacularly for me for the dobs ans well as for my other telescopes. Truly great eyepieces.



#7 chalmene

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Posted 13 March 2018 - 05:05 PM

Full set of APM HDC's + 31T5 = DONE

The price on these seem pretty attractive. Are you able to compare them to the Televue or ES eyepieces?



#8 NiteGuy

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Posted 13 March 2018 - 08:42 PM

At the current sales price of $175, the Baader Morpheus eyepieces would work great with your scope. A 9mm, 12,5mm and 17.5mm would be a good start. Along with the TeleVue Type 4's, they are easily among the most immersive eyepieces on the market and a tremendous bang-for-the-buck value.



#9 aeajr

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Posted 13 March 2018 - 10:39 PM

If you have the money I don't think you can go wrong with TV.   

 

If you are looking to spend a little less I would look at the ES 82 degree line.  

 

 

I would suggest"

  • Explore Scientific 30 mm 82 ( 6.8 mm exit/60X/1.37 degree) 
  • ES 18 mm 82 (4 mm /100x/.82 deg)

https://agenaastro.c...scientific.html

 

 

After that I would go to the 82 degree 1.25" single FL - 14, 11, 8.8, 6.7  4.7  You might consider barlow for anything past 6.7 if you atmospheric conditions tend to limit you.   I don't have any experience with 16". 

 

 

If you need 1.25" too, consider this set: 30, 18, 11 and 6.7 all 82 degree

https://agenaastro.c...-soft-case.html


Edited by aeajr, 14 March 2018 - 10:26 AM.


#10 havasman

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Posted 14 March 2018 - 06:28 AM

The price on these seem pretty attractive. Are you able to compare them to the Televue or ES eyepieces?

I replaced an ES100 20mm I'd used for years with the APM HDC 20mm after comparing them directly and finding the HDC clearly better. If I was starting an EP kit and wanted top rank ep's at reasonably cost effective prices I'd buy those. I like the ultra wide fields.

I plan to buy an APM HDC 13mm to compare directly against my 13 Ethos. 

 

BUT, I've never seen a Morpheus. The posts about them are enthusiastic, particularly for the shortest focal lengths and the 17.5. My kit steps from 31T5 to 20mm to 13mm, 10E, 8&6Delos, 4.7E, 3.5T6, 2.5T6 and I considered redoing it w/Morpheus but it didn't make enough sense in the end.


Edited by havasman, 14 March 2018 - 06:29 AM.


#11 Ernest_SPB

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Posted 14 March 2018 - 06:49 AM

I replaced an ES100 20mm I'd used for years with the APM HDC 20mm after comparing them directly and finding the HDC clearly better...

Interesting. On http://www.apm-telescopes.de APM HDC 20 has price 269EUR, 20 mm ES100 - 498 EUR. I see that schema of these two EP has the same level of complexity (9 elements, 6 components). The same time you said "HDC clearly better". It perplexes me...



#12 Spartinix

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Posted 14 March 2018 - 09:09 AM

I've just started experimenting with an eyepiece set I acquired specifically for my new 20" f5. I did not want to spend big bucks (Euros here) on the latest, greatest generation of quality eyepieces.

So I chose quality classics (see signature) that I managed to find second hand in the last six months. Once I get more experience with the magnifications and TFoV's I get, I will get a coma corrector and go for some 92°-120° eyepieces.

 

So far, I've been delighted by the low-power view of the 35mm, and medium power of the 20mm, but I will add a TVN31T5 next year and use the 35mm in the finder I think.

I will use these for large extended objects and sweeping the Milky Way obviously.

The greatest views I had so far, be it the core of M42, M13, Omega Cen, M51, M104 ... were with my 14mm and 8.8mm wide-angle eyepieces. The step-up from my 14" f10 aperture becomes really noticable around 175x.

 

So, If you have enough relatively steady skies, I would say, first of all, get an ES 92° series 12mm or Ethos 10mm with a paracorr II.



#13 CrazyPanda

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Posted 14 March 2018 - 10:11 AM

Just acquired my 16" Skywatcher Dob (1800mm focal length), and looking to start my 2" eyepiece collection. I'm looking at Explore Scientific and Televue, any experiences or recommendations on size or particular model is appreciated. What sizes are most common with a scope of this size and focal length?

 

Thanks in advance

Is there any reason why you're looking at 2" eyepieces specifically? 

 

2" eyepieces aren't inherently better than 1.25" eyepieces, they're just necessary if you want wide apparent fields AND low magnification (e.g wider true fields of view). 

 

I do 95% of my observing between 122x and 508x in my 12" scope, which is all 1.25" eyepieces. The only 2" eyepiece I really use is my 21 Ethos, and even then it's rare I use it since I'm a power junkie, and prefer higher magnification than lower magnification.



#14 havasman

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Posted 14 March 2018 - 12:25 PM

Interesting. On http://www.apm-telescopes.de APM HDC 20 has price 269EUR, 20 mm ES100 - 498 EUR. I see that schema of these two EP has the same level of complexity (9 elements, 6 components). The same time you said "HDC clearly better". It perplexes me...

Ernest, see post #54 on this forum string for my report of my experience with the two eyepieces -  https://www.cloudyni...ter-one-leaves/

I was careful to point out that I am not a credentialed eyepiece reviewer but just another guy reporting what I saw and the basis for my decision.



#15 Jon Isaacs

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Posted 15 March 2018 - 06:21 AM

Just acquired my 16" Skywatcher Dob (1800mm focal length), and looking to start my 2" eyepiece collection. I'm looking at Explore Scientific and Televue, any experiences or recommendations on size or particular model is appreciated. What sizes are most common with a scope of this size and focal length?

 

Thanks in advance

Chalmene:

 

Hello and congratulations on your new 16 inch.  :waytogo:

 

I've had my 16 inch F/4.4 for more than 10 years, there's a number of ways one can go here.  A few questions:

 

How much you have budgeted for eyepieces?

 

What eyepieces do you currently own?

 

Is your scope GOTO or are you star hopping and tracking manually?   That's me, star hopping and tracking manually.. 

 

What I think:

 

- Eventually you will want a coma corrector and eyepieces that range from something like 30mm to 5 mm along with a 2x Barlow. 

 

- The TeleVue eyepieces are the best eyepieces, Explore Scientific and other similar eyepieces are good solid eyepieces and  can be better values.  For some observers, the difference is quite noticeable, for others, there is little difference.  I started building my eyepiece collection before Explore Scientific and others were available.  I built it around my 12.5 inch and the 16 inch F/4.4 and eventually my 4 inch F/5.4 TeleVue refractor.  My eyepieces are basically all Televue, my friend TomyKay has a set of Explore Scientific eyepieces.  Certainly the ES eyepieces are keepers and they're good enough that you won't feel like you're missing anything with them.  

 

- With a fast Dob, you will eventually want eyepieces like the Ethos's, the Naglers, the Delos, (either those eyepieces or eyepieces modeled after them).  The wide field of view that is clean and sharp across the field, that's what these eyepieces provide.  

 

-  If I were buying one 2 inch eyepiece to start with, it would probably be the 31mm Nagler or the 30mm Explore Scientific.  These are good low power, widest field of view eyepieces that are good as finder eyepieces as well as just the big, bright views they provide.  Without a coma corrector, they provide a 1.3 degree TFoV in your scope.  I like those views.  

 

Jon


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#16 paradise

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Posted 15 March 2018 - 07:48 AM

I think that, nowdays, the 16" is the first 'big' aperture. That merits premium eyepieces ! wink.gif

 

You got a nice choice, all marvellous eyepieces :

 

- Baader Morpheus

- TV Delos, Ethos

- Nikon SW and HW

- Pentax XW

- Lunt/APM 100°

- ES 82°

 

Barlows : TV, ES, Zeiss.

 

Some eyepieces own great eye relief giving nice comfort : Pentax, Delos, Morpheus, Nikon.

 

Between 70° and 100° you get a great AFOV, some people only want 100°, but it is a simple choice, premium 70° or about are already immersive (and are smaller and lighter...).

 

For the beginning, I think that a good idea consists in acquiring premium eyepieces in second hand, and using a good Barlow to save money and time, little by little you can complete quietly your set !


Edited by paradise, 15 March 2018 - 09:18 AM.


#17 kfiscus

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Posted 15 March 2018 - 07:13 PM

Take your time and buy used.  Every EP in my signature was bought used and I am very happy with their performance in my 12" and 16" dobs.



#18 areyoukiddingme

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Posted 15 March 2018 - 10:18 PM

In my 16" F4.5, the eyepiece that really shines is a 21 Ethos with paracorr. 

 

I didn't particularly warm to the 21 in my other scopes (refractors and 12.5" F5), it was hardly offensive, but I found myself reaching for something else most nights.

 

When I got around to trying it in the 16", I didn't have high expectations. But I was wowed by the views, and spend the entire night re-visiting objects.

 

I've recently been comparing the 21 Ethos to the 20mm APM HDC. They are very close in performance, but the APM is not a better eyepiece. I have also had a 20mm Explore Scientific 100. While I have not compared that directly with the others, my memory tells me that the ethos and APM are ahead.



#19 chalmene

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Posted 17 March 2018 - 05:28 PM

Thank you for all the great replies!



#20 Mike B

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Posted 17 March 2018 - 08:01 PM

I asked Rob Teeter the same question when I bought his 16" f4.5 he used for outreach and he recommended the Nagler 31mm, and Etho 17mm, 13mm and 8mm.

 

They have worked spectacularly for me for the dobs ans well as for my other telescopes. Truly great eyepieces.

This sounds like awfully good advice!

 

As you've likely noticed, some Dobbers are fond of the ~20/21mm 100° spot for their viewing, others the ~17mm spot. 

 

Then there's others:

 

... The only 2" eyepiece I really use is my 21 Ethos, and even then it's rare I use it since I'm a power junkie, and prefer higher magnification than lower magnification.

I find myself a bit closer to CrazyPanda's camp, my go-to EP in my Dob (very much similar to yours) is a 13mm Ethos (153x), and i typically work downward from there- 10mm, 8mm, 6mm E's. I have a 20mm Lunt 100° HDC (same as the APM 'HDC'?), and i'd agree its arguably a bit better than the ES version- for my concerns it's notably less poundage & balance concern! But it doesn't see nearly the use the others do- and is often the first-look EP for big+wide stuff before diving in for closer peeks.

 

Much of this is individual preferences for viewing- but a Dob like this lends itself quite well to a wide variety of tastes; it can go w-i-d-e, it can go deep, and if seeing, collimation, and optics are up to it, it can magnify quite well too! So a BIG part of your question would be what do you like to look at? Get EPs that suit that viewing.

 

"Used" is a seriously excellent way to go about this, too! Also, backing down to 80° EPs to begin with makes piles of sense, as you can use/enjoy them to learn better what & where your personal tastes & viewing patterns with this new scope are taking you- then amp things up to 100° EPs in those specific areas, and build/refine from there. Those "used" EPs you started with can always be resold for about what you paid for them, so they'll amount to, essentially, free or low-cost-rental test drives. grin.gif

 

The other thing that's worth mentioning, particularly with 80° EPs in a fast Dob, and especially with 100° EPs in a fast Dob, is coma-correction! Prob'ly sooner than later you should consider looking at a *used* older model ParaCorr. The outer field of view in these widefield EPs you are seeking will clean-up noticeably with a P/C in place. Some will use it, others are okay without.... but the aberration of coma is definitely there in a fast Newtonian's view! About halfway down this page is a decent example of this.

 

Congrats on the big Dob!

Enjoygrin.gif


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#21 GeneT

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Posted 17 March 2018 - 08:23 PM

Maybe a 21 and 13 Ethos and the rest Delos.



#22 Chuck Jennings

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Posted 17 March 2018 - 08:56 PM

I have a 16" F4.5 and I find 20mm to be the sweet spot for my tastes.  I probably spend 65% of my observing with my 20 Nagler T5, another 20% with my 10 Delos, and the remaining time with the "others" made up of various Delos/Panoptic/Naglers.  I think it's more a matter of personal preference, and keep in mind this is my opinion for my 16".  There are other favorites for other scopes!   :)



#23 chalmene

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Posted 17 March 2018 - 10:57 PM

 

 

Much of this is individual preferences for viewing- but a Dob like this lends itself quite well to a wide variety of tastes; it can go w-i-d-e, it can go deep, and if seeing, collimation, and optics are up to it, it can magnify quite well too! So a BIG part of your question would be what do you like to look at? Get EPs that suit that viewing.

 

My greatest interest is to see as much detail in as many galaxies and nebulae as I can. I've also been reading about UHC filters helping a lot with faint nebulae?


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#24 Mike B

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Posted 17 March 2018 - 11:28 PM

Well, *detail* tends to be purdy fleeting in most of these... a larger scope & more light resulting in your views will definitely see fainter stuff, and fainter extents on brighter stuff, possibly subtle brightness undulations on some. But not really *detail* like one sees on planets & Luna. Rare exceptions might be some planetary nebulae, which can show concentric rings & layers... but even that tends to be subtle, and hugely *seeing* dependent.

 

That stated, my experience is that a good many nebulae & most galaxies fit within the view offered by a 13mm Ethos, 12mm Nagler, 14mm Meade Ultrawide, etc. in Dob's like ours. A larger field like that of a 20mm 100° or 30mm 80° will show these things in their gorgeous starry context, and with a galaxy will many times show its neighbor galaxies- they tend to be social critters. So there's most definitely a place for such views, and many prefer that!

 

But if you're into peeling the things apart & lookin' under their hood, you're gonna want more magnification- a la the 13-10-8-6-5mm route.

 

Aw heck- do both at some point! Why not, with a yard-cannon like that! waytogo.gif



#25 Mike B

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Posted 17 March 2018 - 11:36 PM

 

I've also been reading about UHC filters helping a lot with faint nebulae?

Oh, yeah. They do. A good UHC, followed up eventually with a good O-3 can help quite a bit. But realize that they're *filters*, so they're taking light AWAY from your view... and they can color nearby stars awfully funny in the process. But the light they take away can help the neb's lite to stand out a touch.

 

The best results i've had with such filters, and i *DO* use & enjoy them, is to "blink" them; rather than thread them onto the back-end of an EP (a slow, cumbersome, & perilous adventure in the dark with cold fingers!), i use 2-inchers held securely between thumb & finger and flipped in-and-out of the view ON TOP of an eyepiece, between the EP & my eyes (okay, eyeglasses). You can do this quickly & repeatedly, and it really pops hidden features into view this way! Just don't drop 'em. Slow, careful, steady, well-thot moves in the dark. lol.gif




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