28 replies to this topic

[Asbytec]

Well, after a long bought with orange zone and lousy humidity, I finally moved to a yellow zone. There was some humidity last night, but I got out anyway and took an impromptu look at M51 after an evening thunderstorm blew through. 

 

The first thing I noticed, not yet fully dark adapted, was two stellar nuclei with some fuzz around them. The second thing I noticed, pretty prominent really, was the elongated appearance of the companion galaxy NGC 5195. It was a small round haze with a bright elongated core and a stellar nucleus. At this point, M51 was a large almost circular halo slightly brighter in the middle. I kept looking. 

 

The third thing I began to notice was fleeting glimpses of two dark lanes very near the core. One above and one below the core region. Hard to really lock them down as they came and went so quickly, but I saw them fairly often and consistently. Then, I began to notice a couple of brighter patches in the soft halo. One above the core (north, I believe) and a smaller one to the right (west). The halo became kind of patchy as my dark adaption set in and the halo offered hints of a counterclockwise rotation which turned out to be correct.  

 

I tried to relax and see if the bridge to NGC 5195 was visible. Can't say it was visible, not even as a brighter "patch" in the halo. I can only say a few times the entire halo of M51 seemed large enough to extend out to NGC 5195, or nearly so. But, no clear detection of the bridge connecting them. 

 

So, I spent about 45 minutes observing the galaxy in modest transparency, maybe 3 or 4 of 5. I did not check seeing conditions and really, during a late evening impromptu session, I didn't even cool the OTA. I was at 108x (1.4mm exit pupil) with a 18mm HD Ortho and a Orion 150 MCT. I used a rubber eye guard (thankfully) to battle some distant direct lighting. 

 

Maybe not my best session, I don't know that I ever really got into the zone. Kind of out of practice, I guess. But, hey, it's a night under the stars and I think it turned out okay. Have to get back into the swing. Thanks. 

 

Edited by Asbytec, 16 March 2018 - 08:16 PM.

[Randolph Jay]

Beautiful Norme!
Congratulations on the move!
Regards,
Randolph

[Asbytec]

Thank you, Randolph. Skies here are a little better and much more wide open. Still suffering some high humidity last few years, maybe a slight el nina effect. Cloudy, too. But, gotta get back into the swing of things. 

 

M51 was only about 30 degrees above the horizon and just outside a visible light done in the north. I should have hit it with my Orion broadband (weak) filter. 

[pedrovillamiel]

Very evocative story and drawing.
Thanks and best regards.
Pedro Villamiel

[Sheliak_sp]

Wow Norme, that's so beautiful, I love the way yo tell us like if it was a story. The sketch is also very realistic, with that smooth texture. Thanks for sharing it!

[Asbytec]

Wow, thank you all. Been a while since I've done any observing. Felt kind of clumsy out there in the dark. Rusty.

[iainp]

Lovely sketch! I took a look at M51 the other night, expecting it to be spectacular in the 20" dob, but due to lots of moisture in the air, and my eyes not being properly adapted due to neighbours' security lights, it was a real disappointment, showing only the 2 cores. It just goes to show, big aperture can be great but it's not a guarantee of great results...

Iain

[Asbytec]

Thanks, Iain. You may be right. Gotta really get into it and avoid as much stray light as possible. Can't do much with visibility. If things don't come together, our view is diminished.

Not saying my observation was a waste. It was enjoyable and I managed some detail. It may be worth another observation when things come together nicely.

Not tonight, though, unless it clears in the next hour. It was one of those teasing nights: clear all day, cloudy when the sun goes down.

I suspect the humid air cooled as the sun dropped below the horizon and clouds formed. If so, it may clear by midnight. We'll see.

[iainp]

Good luck. The snow started falling the day I bought the 20" Dob, and it's been exactly a month now, and there's only been one clear, dark (ish) night. What a way to run a country... 

Iain 

[frank5817]

Hi Norme,

 

This is a very fine sketch of M51 and NGC 5125. It has that carefully performed look I always see in your sketches. The conditions weather conditions that is at the time of your sketch may not have been perfect and the galaxies were not very high in your sky but non-the-less it has detail and I am sure it matches very well your view.

I like it.

 

Frank

[Asbytec]

Thank you, Iain and Frank. I'm flattered. Had a pretty nice night tonight. Clouds broke about 11PM. Looked at NGC 3187 (what a surprise that was), M65, and redid M51 for a short while at the end. When I first found M51 at low power (78x, low as I can go), it looked pretty nice. Excited, I stuck in the eyepiece I was using with the rubber eyeguard still on it. The view wasn't so great. So, I parked the scope and began tearing down when I realized I was using the 12mm Ortho and the magnification was too high. But, hey...it's late and gotta sketch.

Edited by Asbytec, 17 March 2018 - 01:28 PM.

[tommy10]

 Great  sketch with modest aperture, M-51 is invisible from my  light polluted  backyard even with my eight inch dob, thanks for sharing, I look forward to your planetary sketches of Jupiter ,and Mars during the upcoming  observing season, thanks again for sharing.

[Asbytec]

Thank you, Tommy.

[niteskystargazer]

Norme,

 

Very nice sketch of M-51  .

 

CS,KLU,

 

 ,

 

Tom

[azure1961p]

Hey you nailed M51 and 5195!!!

 

Its interesting how different folks see different things on the same objects.  You got the double condensation each side of 5195s vore while I tended to see it as smoothed but ovular.   The core in 5195 is one sharp brilliant spike though isnt it?  Then theres the arm on the right , to me this was more difficult than the main long arm leading to 5195.  I never got as solid a view of it as others have COMPARED  to that other arm.  In the end I got it defined but at the cost of more time needed to make it pop. Im curious that you didnt get the stellaring in that main arm as I had with the C6. Heres another great example of different observers seeing different things .  At 120x  it was a persistent though fleeting substellar blip.  I wonder if had you bumped up a notch to 120x it mightve popped?  I kno I didnt see it at lower mags.  

 

Optimum mags here for the overall aesthetics but not super focused study seemed to be 120x with the 6 and 140x with the 8.  I forget if ramping another 50x mightve done anything but those mags for those scopes seemed the ideal overall winners.

 

Another thing was when I caught that stellaring the object was as near to the zenith as its position allowed and it was a crisp cool dry evening.  Because Ive seen you trample my M74 through my 8 with your 6" mak, Im inclined to believe a better night would have you doing likewise here.

 

On conditions...

 

After that terrific placement and conditions that night with the C6 on M51, I tried on several occaisions with the 8 inch to make a go of it, even though it wasnt as transparent weather nor as highly placed. In each of the several seperate trys with the 8 inch it was a peculiar letdown.  That apron of hazy light was a muddle with partial examples of detail and it looked like a pale milky mess that never came together.  Youd never believe the scope was 50% higher in light gathering power.  You d think the advantage over the 6 would triumph over the less than ideal conditions but it was a sad pale mess.  Whats odd? Despite the sad mess, 5195 exhibited the double condensations like the 6 never did. I WON that much but I LOST the arms more or less.  Thatsthe querky nature of the conditions. Iain with his 20" is a terrific example, and Ive seen some beautiful views through a scope in that class.  Conditions, like aperture, or more so rules I guess.  With regard to the 8 however , on balance , on a clear winters night, Ive seen definition in the arms flash into view that actually revealed irregulaities in width and such.  On that night the condition gods gave my scope the nod.  Not those other trys lol.  Wrapping it up, for me, lessons learned: shoot for nearzenith placement and clean dry transparency. 

 

I glad you finally got to this one Norme. And you nailed the double condensation in 5195 to boot. 

 

 

Pete

[Asbytec]

Yea, Pete, I was a bit disappointed that I could not match your previous observation. haha...half joking. Only half joking, though...half serious. You said I could do better, but I could not. You nailed it. Yea, I guess we do see the same things a little differently. Our conditions played a role, too. I need to revisit M51 if I can squeeze it in.

[cloudbuster]

Very nice work, I really like the softness around the core, you captured that very well. The arms are not so easy to spot in a lightpolluted sky, so clearly you are experienced enough to make that kind of observation, even if things are a bit "rusty"

 

Regards, Martijn

[Asbytec]

Thank you, Martijn. I am happy with the results. It took some effort to eek out the brighter regions. What was easier were the darker swaths near the core. I could make them out more often, but it was difficult to place them. One above and one below the core was the final 'decision' as to where I was actually seeing them. 

[azure1961p]

What was M51s altitude Norme at the time of the observation. Mind you, when I was.observing with the 8 at 45 degrees altitude it was a big disappointment.  Near that black zenith with the C6, yowza!!

 

Pete

[Asbytec]

Pete, checking Stellarium, I think it was up around 40 degrees at the time. Polaris is only 16 degrees above the northern horizon. In Panama, it was only 8 degrees. I could see it through a gap in the trees. Yea, on the zenith is great. Leo rises through the zenith this time of year. 

Edited by Asbytec, 20 March 2018 - 06:59 PM.

[Asbytec]

I got a little better view of M15 last night revisiting it while I waited for the zenith (Leo) to clear up. I got more of the one arm and a little darker, more prominent dust lane. Still limited to 108x (1.4mm exit pupil), seems the best between 78x and 162x.

 

At one time I thought I saw the bridge stretching up and away from the companion. But I really cannot be very sure. The eastern arm, I thought, was the one that went to the companion. But, its not and further proof I didn't see the bridge. I saw that arm briefly as it kind of pointed in the direction of the companion. I just added the features to the original sketch. 

 

Still not at its peak altitude just above a small visible light done in the north. Some cloudiness, but the north stayed clear for some reason. But, it rained earlier in the day and cleaned up the air. I was hopeful it would clear nicely, but no joy. 

 

I forgot to label the sketch. North is down and west to the right. 

 

Edited by Asbytec, 24 March 2018 - 12:41 AM.

[mikona]

Wonderful sketch... Ihave had very similar views and experiences similar to yours with this object. GREAT JOB!

[Asbytec]

I have had very similar views and experiences similar to yours with this object.

 

Mike, that is great news! Always glad to hear folks say that. Enjoy.

[azure1961p]

Norme,

 

Nice work on the galaxy. Looks like u are getting some contrast change in that main long arm, more over your arms begin to suggest a spiral pattern. Thats been a point of contention among observers in that some argue the spiral suggestion is not real in smaller apertures citing Herschels observations and then Lorde Rosse and his behemoth scope said to be needed to finally show the true spiral. I agree with Omeara and your work here in that true, its not shown as a true spiral but SUGGESTIONS that it COULD be are evident to the careful observer.  I also hold with the idea since we know its a true spiral its easier to allow this suggestion to unfold if even partially because we dont gloss over such telltale subtleties out of ignorance.  Theres a lot to be said for knowing what to look for while at the same time having the seasoned experience not to conjure up a falseimpression based on it. Such is the deepsky fine line eh?

Ok off to work.

 

Pete

[Asbytec]

Pete, I'd be curious what O'meara says about M51. Need to grab his book.

 

But, yes, during the first night of observation, that was my impression. The dimmer mottled halo give the impression of being a spiral. And with the right counterclockwise rotation that turns out to be correct in my FOV. I see a large faint halo with some brighter patches. The first was to the west (right), the second to the south (top).

 

Maybe a few more flickered in from time to time, but just giving a generally mottled appearance. Last night, though, I caught a good glimpse of a brighter arc to the east (left) that came and went. It seemed to be an extension of the brighter arc above the core. Seeing this eastern is when I thought I may have had a chance to see the bridge because it seemed properly placed. Turns out, it was probably the brighter arm inside and not the bridge. 

 

If I recall decades ago as a teenager, I observed M51 in my homebuilt 6" Newt. I recall seeing a spiral pattern. But, that's just a faded memory. I cannot go back and check it.