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#26 Sarkikos

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Posted 13 May 2018 - 10:38 AM

Okay at night in the dark, but the bright red locking rings might well be visible to peripheral vision in daylight.

Drawing ones head back to check the view will certainly provide a colourful shock to the system.

Call me old fashioned, but I prefer black around the eyepiece area.

The red color won't matter if you're viewing planets or the Moon, the only objects I look at with binoviewers.

 

Mike



#27 Sarkikos

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Posted 13 May 2018 - 10:40 AM

Available directly from Orion, here in the US:

 

https://www.telescop...14/p/130300.uts

Are these really worth $499?  Well, at least there's free shipping.

 

Mike


Edited by Sarkikos, 13 May 2018 - 10:41 AM.

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#28 Eddgie

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Posted 13 May 2018 - 02:18 PM

Are these really worth $499?  Well, at least there's free shipping.

 

Mike

As my previous post suggested, as compared to a WO and a $250 1.3x OCA, I think yes, it is worth it, but only for that specific comparison.  

 

And the problem with that is that you still need eyepieces, and buy the time you buy three sets, you are at the price of a good used Denk II with power switch.

 

That is why I said that I had my doubts that this design will be successful in the marketplace.   The will sell a few I guess, but at this price point, I think only a few.  

 

At $399, I think they would do much better, but at $350, they would sell a lot.  Could they make money at $350???  Don't know, but I would buy one at that price for sure.  


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#29 JAC51

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Posted 13 May 2018 - 02:50 PM

This is my first ever post on cloud nights so I better get the following right.

 

A pentaprism turns the light path for an image through 90 degrees while maintaining the original orientation of the image. So the image through a refractor image will remain inverted and laterally reversed coming out of a pentaprism unlike an amici prism.

 

Basically what you put in is what you get out but turned through a right angle the correction of image is performed solely by the binoviewer.

 

John


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#30 The Ardent

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Posted 14 May 2018 - 03:02 AM

Not really. 

 

https://www.cloudyni...d/#entry8179377

 

 



#31 Tom Duncan

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Posted 15 May 2018 - 11:39 AM

Hmm, I wondering what a $300 OCS is. If I need to use an OCS to focus I use a $15 Burgess 1.9x on my no-name Chinese binoviewers to great success with a variety of scopes. 

 

And yes, while there is some light loss M13 is fantastic through a binoviewer, though admittedly best through a larger aperture telescope (I typically chose a C11 for that). 

 

Tom 


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#32 Eddgie

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Posted 15 May 2018 - 04:16 PM

Hmm, I wondering what a $300 OCS is. If I need to use an OCS to focus I use a $15 Burgess 1.9x on my no-name Chinese binoviewers to great success with a variety of scopes. 

 

And yes, while there is some light loss M13 is fantastic through a binoviewer, though admittedly best through a larger aperture telescope (I typically chose a C11 for that). 

 

Tom 

An OCS is Optical Corrector System or similar kind of terms.  

An OCS is usually an optic with two groups that amplifies, then reduces the field.   The reason people use them is because it allows you to get lower power than with a Barlow.

 

Your 1.9x setup is fine for planets and how power, but of course it means that using our lowest power eyepiece, you are working at half the focal length,  so a 25mm Plossl is more like a 13mm eyepiece, and this means you have not only higher power, but a true field that is only a bit more than half the size of the field the eyepiece would give  without a Barlow.

 

The OCS (or whatever else people call them) will allow the binoviewer to reach power at only 1.3x or so, so this lowers the magnfication.  Now, rather than being like 13mm eyepieces, the 25mm units would be more like 19.3mm so the true field would be much bigger and the power much lower.

 

If you are happy with the field size and power of your binoviewer when using the Barlow, then you don't need an OCS.

 

The number one complaint about binoviewers though, even is scopes that can reach focus with no OCS or barlow, tends to be the true field limit imposed by the requirement for 1.25" eyepieces and in most cases, some kind of Barow or OCS that is required to reach focus. 

 

And as I mentioned, for people that were going to buy a William Optics BV and something like the $250 Siebert 1.3x OCS, the Linear BV looks like a better alternative. Costs less and gives the same true field.  Less hassle too because there are no other optical components to mess with.  Plug and play.


Edited by Eddgie, 15 May 2018 - 04:19 PM.

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#33 Tom Duncan

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Posted 15 May 2018 - 05:16 PM

Oh, I see, a $300 1.3x OCS will work at a lower magnification than my $15 1.9x. I can see where that would be important for wide field viewing, which I do little of. 

 

Thanks for the clarification. 

 

Tom 


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#34 doug mc

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Posted 15 May 2018 - 10:34 PM

According to Siebert website, his 1.25x OCS for W.O. binos and other low price binoviewers, prices start at $149.00. His multi mag OCS for same binoviewers is $169.00.



#35 Darkskyaz

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Posted 05 July 2018 - 07:00 PM

So has anyone had the chance to try these Orion binoviewers yet? 


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#36 contrailmaker

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Posted 07 July 2018 - 08:53 PM

I did. Long story short they cut the light cone so I returned them. I’ll post more details later.

 

CM


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#37 Rusted

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Posted 12 July 2018 - 09:38 AM

Can GPC take place with suitable optics placed directly in front of each EP in a binoviewer?

 

The optical spacing is greatly reduced but will it affect GPL?

 

Or simply reduce the [unwanted] amplification factor?

 

It seems far too easy or it would surely have been tried by now.



#38 Eddgie

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Posted 12 July 2018 - 12:37 PM

No, placing them at the eyepiece does not do much to shorten the light path of the BV.  Yes, you would probably have to rack out a bit to reach focus, but most Barlows do not require that much out focus.

 

To work, the focal extender has to be placed in front of the BV so that it lengths the light cone by the distance though the binoviewer, and this is typically 100mm or more.

 

And of course once you do this, you wind up with a higher power.

 

I think the Denk and Earthwin systems have it right.  By putting the Barlow far ahead of the binoviewer (130mm or more with a 2" diagonal and as much as 100mm with the Newtonian extender) you can limit the amount of amplification, and when you use this kind of system, it allows you to re-capture some of the lost true field by using the reducer arm.

 

My standard advice for many years now (which I know offends some people, but it is nothing personal, just advice) is to get a Denk or Earthwin type system with a power switch.  These will reach focus in juts about any kind of scope and give a wider true field than is often possible with any other approach.   And, you get three powers to boot.  By the time you add up the costs of all the additional eyepieces and other OCAs, the price will not seem all that high, and the raw utility of being able to change mangications without changing eyepieces has to be experienced to be appreciated.

The Linear Binoviewer though solves the problem of making one binoviewer work with many scopes, and while the aperture is small, you can probably still get wider fields than you could get using many other binoviewers, even if they have big prisms.  It takes about 2.3x  to 2.6x of Barlow to offset the light path of a binoviewer. If you start with a 27mm aperture, you get smaller than the aperture of the Orion pretty quickly if you have to use 2x or more to reach focus. 

 

I have my doubt that Orion will sell many of these at the price they advertise, but at $300, I would probably buy one if the optical quality and performance was on par with other BVs. 


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#39 Rusted

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Posted 13 July 2018 - 12:41 AM

Thank you, Eddgie, but your recommendations are far beyond my pension.

I already have the S-T binoviewer and considered that expensive at the time.

Particularly as I had to buy two OCSs to get anywhere with it.

 

I shall be using the S-T with a mixture of secondhand Meade 4000s.

Which were each bought individually from small ads over a long time and I considered those expensive.

Particularly as I ended up with two very different lengths of 32mm [One marked 'Japan' and one 'China']

So must now source another just to get a match.

 

Yet to discover a suitable and affordable 40mm in 1.25" to try and get the power down enough.

But this isn't the thread for more discussion on that.

 

Thank you, gain, for your quality posts. waytogo.gif



#40 Eddgie

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Posted 13 July 2018 - 11:53 AM

I understand.  

 

This is just advice I put in for others reading the post to help them better understand how this can be a factor to consider if they are in the market to buy.

In your case, you would either have to use amplification ahead of the BV, or shorten the light path.  If you have not considered that as an option, you might want to, but for refractors, this often means having to cut a few inches off of the tube.  For a lot of people that is not an option, though I have done it several times.



#41 denis0007dl

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Posted 13 July 2018 - 03:43 PM

Ok, more infos about that new linear binoviewer are written here

https://www.cloudyni...eier/?p=8700584

#42 contrailmaker

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Posted 17 July 2018 - 09:27 AM

I had been meaning to post a more thorough review after my initial post. Tried them on my PST and AP 130. The review by Denis says it all. I saw the same effects he did. The light cone is cut short by the binoviewers. It’s that simple. Too bad they didn’t work as they seemed very well made and much lighter than other premium binoviewers.

 

CM


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