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Calling all Edmund 8" grey Gem scope info

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#1 apfever

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Posted 18 May 2018 - 12:23 PM

There is some mutual interest by regulars in this forum, concerning my Edmund 8".
This is the same line as the grey GEM Deluxe Space Conqueror (DSC) and Super Space Conqueror (SSC).
While the DSC and SSC had actual names, the 8" was just the 8". The mount is massive, the OTA I'm not sure about.
One of the things I need to find out is whether or not my OTA is original or ATM, either way mine is modified by a previous owner.
The OTA parts look Edmund (mostly), the tube not so much. Pictures coming, but so is heavy rain. Back to it this afternoon.

#2 terraclarke

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Posted 18 May 2018 - 12:48 PM

Sounds like a job for Sir Edmund Clamchip!


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#3 PawPaw

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Posted 18 May 2018 - 02:19 PM

Apfever....I have an original Edmund 8 inch complete from the 1960's....more than happy to help out.  I can tell you the original tube was phenolic. 

 

Don't forget that Edmund also had a "Space Challenger VI Super 6" Reflector" (Mounted on the extra heavy duty mount) which debuted in 1974 and ended production in late 1976 or early 1977.  


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#4 apfever

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Posted 19 May 2018 - 08:50 AM

Thanks Paw, apparently I'll need some help getting the focuser and finder found.

Here's the mount as it sits. The OTA is directly behind it, washing out some of the mount detail.

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Edited by apfever, 19 May 2018 - 08:51 AM.

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#5 CHASLX200

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Posted 19 May 2018 - 08:54 AM

Apfever....I have an original Edmund 8 inch complete from the 1960's....more than happy to help out.  I can tell you the original tube was phenolic. 

 

Don't forget that Edmund also had a "Space Challenger VI Super 6" Reflector" (Mounted on the extra heavy duty mount) which debuted in 1974 and ended production in late 1976 or early 1977.  

My tube was made of the same stuff on my 8" Edmund. I bought it in 1987 in rough shape from some people lived on a boat.  I had to redo the tube and rebuild the whole thing.  But gave super images.


Edited by CHASLX200, 19 May 2018 - 08:54 AM.


#6 apfever

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Posted 19 May 2018 - 09:00 AM

top end.

Close up of RA shaft end. The shaft is a single piece milled down on the end to accept the original drive.
The pier is standard 4" pipe and pipe threads. The O.D. is 4.5" on the pipe. I'll take opportunity to play on words here and state that this will get a Teflon AZM bearing for easy polar alignment. I have enough of the tape.wink.gif

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Edited by apfever, 19 May 2018 - 09:28 AM.

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#7 apfever

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Posted 19 May 2018 - 09:27 AM

The bottom line Josh. Here they are in all their glory but obviously these to stay with such a complete unit.

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#8 apfever

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Posted 19 May 2018 - 09:36 AM

I need serious input on paint. This one has been sprayed a distinct silver, not grey like the 4" and 6" mounts.  I'm not sure what color the original is, but the wrinkle texture is still in excellent condition with prominence in spite of the silver over coat.  I can get a correct color on it and still keep the original wrinkle texture in good form.  If the original color is the same as the smaller mounts, then I'm set. If the original color is different, then I'll need some way to get a good description or match.



#9 PawPaw

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Posted 19 May 2018 - 10:24 AM

IMG_VHT Enamel B.JPG I used a paint product available at most Auto parts stores.... VHT engine enamel paint.  This product will provide the original wrinkle texture if applied at the right rate.  If you don't have a large enough oven to enhance the wrinkle effect I recommend putting it in direct sunlight on a hot day....This is what I did and it did bring out more wrinkles in the paint.  Some of the later Edmund mounts did not have as much wrinkle paint as the earlier ones.  I have a 1975 model of this mount and it had less wrinkles then my 1960's model.

 

I had my mount sandblasted because the rust was excessive.  Apfever your mount is in better shape than mine was paint wise.  Here is the VHT paint product:

 

And a picture of a Medium duty mount with the original paint and the Extra heavy duty saddle painted with the VHT for comparison.  

 

 

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  • IMG_1644 A.jpg

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#10 PawPaw

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Posted 19 May 2018 - 11:15 AM

I need serious input on paint. This one has been sprayed a distinct silver, not grey like the 4" and 6" mounts.  I'm not sure what color the original is, but the wrinkle texture is still in excellent condition with prominence in spite of the silver over coat.  I can get a correct color on it and still keep the original wrinkle texture in good form.  If the original color is the same as the smaller mounts, then I'm set. If the original color is different, then I'll need some way to get a good description or match.

Apfever....I have several different mounts from this Edmund era with the original gray color and all of them have variations in shading of the gray.  At least mine have subtle differences in the shade of the gray....They are all very close but just a bit different.  This could be due to the environment they sat in or just the paint mixing had variations when Edmund applied it.  With that said I knew my mount I purchased in 1976 had original paint but due to the rust I still removed one of the legs and matched the color that had been protected under that leg for years.  

 

You may try removing one of the legs and see if the original color is still hiding......Or under the screw on cap may be hiding some original color.

 

Here is a better pic of my efforts at matching Edmunds "Battleship Gray".  The Medium duty mount has it's original paint.

 

 

 

 

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#11 apfever

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Posted 19 May 2018 - 11:21 AM

How's that paint for curing completely in structure without oven heat 300+?

The texture on this one is a heavy form, rills by comparison. Globular wrinkle?  I do like a semi gloss at any rate, anything to break the paint shine edge looks better for me.  My last leg photo full size shows the wrinkle structure fairly well.

The main reason it's here (CN here) was to possibly let it go since the OTA seemed a cheesy ATM job for any presentability or crude minimum or maybe 'never quite got it down'.  The question would have been value from regular here to regular here. That would still be interesting to hear. As it is, it looks like the creepy OTA is original and I'm good for what it needs - maybe- a matter of time. OTA after mount.

 

Here are some of the drives. The arrow shows the only original bore I have for the DSC shaft, the 4.25"  scope. The larger can be bushed down, I haven't needed to but it seems a finesse thing for standard parts.

I do think I have an extra big bore. Don't hold me to that yet.

 

 

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#12 apfever

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Posted 19 May 2018 - 11:30 AM

I think I found the focuser, not sure about the finder set up yet.

The focuser I have looks like the largest single secondary holder rod system I've seen. It's the same structure as the smaller

with a Frisbee secondary by comparison. Definitely looks funny from the standard smaller size.  I hope it's the right focuser, it's cool and takes care of the secondary assembly in one shot.

 

Some more mount scragglers, there are various setting circles floating around. On to the OTA and originality, and eeewwww gross....

 

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#13 apfever

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Posted 19 May 2018 - 11:39 AM

As it stands.

 

Official HVAC 10" duct work upper end combo dew shield thing.

I had a pic of the lower end, flakey condition but the pic fuzzed out.

Turns out it's original bakelite. I do need to get a better look at the upper guts to confirm that but it sure looks original inside, what's still there.

 

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#14 apfever

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Posted 19 May 2018 - 11:48 AM

Inside it's a 10" duct tube on top, original looking OTA tube, no secondary spider assembly and tube (and tin) notched for the secondary rod.

This crop top top hat needs to just goooooooo, look at the tube, keep the ENTIRE thing together as an original 8" if the tube is factory.  Fixing anything on this isn't bad at all.

There are still quiet curious minds about value of a mount assembly only with drive, circles,..

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#15 clamchip

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Posted 19 May 2018 - 11:57 AM

I have a early mount with a Pacific Instruments drive.

The Edmund Extra Heavy Duty was introduced in 1962, came by itself or with the 'new for 62' 8 inch reflector.

The 8 inch reflector was f/8, came with a UPCO mirror, phinolic tube, standard Edmund focuser, and the

Edmund Deluxe finder.

The early mounts had the latitude fine adjust in the center of the mount, later mounts this adjuster was off

to one side.

I have a early mount with the central adjuster. Standard Edmund gray wrinkle, and someone painted it black.

I've been collecting parts to make mine all original and now have the correct drive, optional aluminum setting

circles, and I think my father-in-law said he has a vintage can of wrinkle gray!

I have everything to build a optical tube, including the mirrors and mirror mounts, finder and finder mount, the

focuser, I just need the tube!

The Edmund Extra Heavy Duty is a fantastic mount and I've made a few reversible mods to mine like this 

Optical Craftsmen saddle plate so I can use standard tube rings.

I use mine with all kinds of telescopes from 4 and 6 inch refractors to 10 newts, SCT's, MCT's, and since it's

plain old pipe you can buy lengths of standard threaded pipe and go up up and away!

Robert 

 

post-50896-14074281611387_thumb.jpg

post-50896-14074281615936_thumb.jpg


Edited by clamchip, 19 May 2018 - 05:29 PM.

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#16 PawPaw

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Posted 19 May 2018 - 12:13 PM

For reference here is a previous post on the early and later model differences:

 

https://www.cloudyni...nt#entry6048847

 

My older mount from the 60's has the thrust bearings instead of the teflon bearings used later.  Both work fine but the teflon is currently more expensive than the thrust washer which can be purchased for under $4.00.  These are great mounts and getting harder to find.

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#17 apfever

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Posted 19 May 2018 - 12:15 PM

Paw, you have two of the 8" mounts?  Here:

 

https://www.cloudyni...ier/?hl=+edmund

 

https://www.cloudyni...425/?hl=+edmund

 

Hope those links worked. I always thought I'd get a group shot some day if I did up all three sizes. These pics are now, dusty, still nice, just tossed them around the axis' for a work out. Fumble fingers here, still not up to focus fingers and cold. The 4.25" started with the symmetrical pier cap. Seems the 8" did as well according to ad pictures.

 

 

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#18 CHASLX200

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Posted 19 May 2018 - 01:40 PM

My old Edmund 8" mount had clamp locks on both axis not knobs. I guess i had a older version.  It was a great stay outside mount that i loved and was so simple to use.


Edited by CHASLX200, 19 May 2018 - 01:42 PM.


#19 clamchip

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Posted 19 May 2018 - 06:27 PM

Here's the Edmund Extra Heavy Duty with just about the most it can hold, a 10 f/5.7 full thickness.

And a picture of perfection, the Extra Heavy Duty and a Edmund 5 inch f/15.

The Edmund 5 inch f/15 I built with a Edmund lens and cell, which became available around 1956-57

and the cell requires a 7 inch OD tube. The factory saddle for the Edmund Extra Heavy Duty is cast

for a 7 inch OD tube and this scope in the bottom picture is really what I think Edmund may have had

in mind with the Extra Heavy Duty, a 5 inch f/15, but it never did happen, Edmund did not offer a 5 inch.

Robert

 

post-50896-0-93596800-1483375357_thumb.jpg

post-50896-0-78775400-1471157064.jpg

 


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#20 Garyth64

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Posted 19 May 2018 - 06:35 PM

Here's a Edmund mount with 1" shafts that I pick up last year:

 

mount close up.jpg

 

It came with a clock drive (that works!), and the dec adjustment.  As far as I know, this is the only one, that I have seen, that has the dec adjustment.

I really like this mount.

 

Between the Edmund mount and the 4" pier, is a UO part I picked up back in the early 70's.  It was a perfect match. (I reworked the part a little.)

 

I'm trying to keep this as the permanent mount for my 4ΒΌ" f/13 newt.

 

(I changed the knobs.)


Edited by Garyth64, 19 May 2018 - 06:39 PM.

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#21 clamchip

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Posted 19 May 2018 - 06:46 PM

Neil I borrowed your photo to show you the correct drive bolts up to the two holes

I marked with red arrows: 

 

post-45234-0-30013900-1526738397_thumb.jpg



#22 CHASLX200

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Posted 19 May 2018 - 06:52 PM

Neil I borrowed your photo to show you the correct drive bolts up to the two holes

I marked with red arrows: 

 

attachicon.gif post-45234-0-30013900-1526738397_thumb.jpg

That is just like the mount i had.



#23 Garyth64

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Posted 19 May 2018 - 07:20 PM

I have a early mount with a Pacific Instruments drive.

The Edmund Extra Heavy Duty was introduced in 1962, came by itself or with the 'new for 62' 8 inch reflector.

The 8 inch reflector was f/8, came with a UPCO mirror, phinolic tube, standard Edmund focuser, and the

Edmund Deluxe finder.

The early mounts had the latitude fine adjust in the center of the mount, later mounts this adjuster was off

to one side.

I have a early mount with the central adjuster. Standard Edmund gray wrinkle, and someone painted it black.

I've been collecting parts to make mine all original and now have the correct drive, optional aluminum setting

circles, and I think my father-in-law said he has a vintage can of wrinkle gray!

I have everything to build a optical tube, including the mirrors and mirror mounts, finder and finder mount, the

focuser, I just need the tube!

The Edmund Extra Heavy Duty is a fantastic mount and I've made a few reversible mods to mine like this 

Optical Craftsmen saddle plate so I can use standard tube rings.

I use mine with all kinds of telescopes from 4 and 6 inch refractors to 10 newts, SCT's, MCT's, and since it's

plain old pipe you can buy lengths of standard threaded pipe and go up up and away!

Robert 

 

attachicon.gif post-50896-14074281611387_thumb.jpg

attachicon.gif post-50896-14074281615936_thumb.jpg

Is that a tangent arm assembly in the first photo?



#24 clamchip

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Posted 19 May 2018 - 08:06 PM

Here's a thread that has very good photos of the drive:

https://www.cloudyni...rp-motor-drive/

 

Robert



#25 clamchip

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Posted 19 May 2018 - 08:10 PM

Is that a tangent arm assembly in the first photo?

It's the optional Dec fine-adjust for the Extra Heavy Duty.

I found it after I bought the mount, that's why it is original wrinkle gray.

 

Robert




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