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Calling all Edmund 8" grey Gem scope info

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#26 BarabinoSr

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Posted 19 May 2018 - 08:58 PM

This image is from 1978, the big edmund mount carried my 6-inch f/15 Jaegers Refractor prior to Katrina. I have a smaller version that I used to carry my short focus 4-inch Jaegers back in 2010.6-inch Refractor jpeg 3.jpg

 

 

 


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#27 BarabinoSr

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Posted 19 May 2018 - 09:30 PM

Here's the same mount recovered from the  New Orleans area after the flood in 2005.

 

 

 

 

Attached Thumbnails

  • P3310774.jpg


#28 BarabinoSr

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Posted 19 May 2018 - 09:37 PM

Here is a smaller mount the one for the 6-inch Super Space Conqueror carrying a 4 inch Jaegers I built a few years ago. I still have this unit but it is not in use at the moment.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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  • CG-5 Mount 004_cr.jpg

Edited by BarabinoSr, 19 May 2018 - 09:39 PM.

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#29 CHASLX200

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Posted 20 May 2018 - 05:48 AM

I think it was the best 1.5" shaft mount ever made out of the 100's i have owned. With no drives it was super smooth to move around.



#30 apfever

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Posted 20 May 2018 - 08:01 AM

The question Remains as to what just a mount would go for, a reasonable price that is reasonably close to a reasonably interested buyer (imaginary situation to negate shipping and just get a value).  There IS interest in knowing by a few different close proximity people, all of whom are staying quiet on numbers for unbiased input, and seriously curious. Only expectations are for values to be all over the chalk board.  My example is a little above average, good finish texture and coverage, drive, setting circles, good movements, could use simple clean up (grease etc.), good thrust bearing for RA, clean and paint for some Wow....

 

Admittedly,  this scope is complete so it will stay together as an original mount and OTA in spite of the rest of this entry.  The tube is no big deal for repair and everything OTA is here somewhere. Still want a mount only estimate though.

 

Three part harmony or make that three part harm on me.  The duct work outer repair removed exposed the inner repair bolted between the duct work and original bakelite OTA.  I'll keep that inner plate attached till I have epoxy, fiber fill additive (usually Masonite dust), reinforcement layers (brown paper), and other stuff to make actual repair application. Bakelite 'wets' very well to two part epoxy, and it takes well to bondo type fillers. I favor epoxy since I also use that on the setting circles and smaller repairs. I mix epoxy with Masonite sawdust. In this large repair situation, layers of brown wrapping paper encased in the epoxy.

Bondo can be seen in the original focuser hole from a previous repair. The primary end shows a vast array of mounting holes that makes me think this original fix was an experiment and learning experience in primary/secondary optics.  I'll have to get original primary location information, primary specs, reversible mod improvements on the cell, and then make sure the whole cell situation clears the tube end so it can free stand on it's butt.  I have a strong dislike for a newt OTA to have any projections out the bottom and I won't go original if the factory had protrusions.

Attached Thumbnails

  • P5190018.JPG
  • P5190017.JPG

Edited by apfever, 20 May 2018 - 09:14 AM.


#31 apfever

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Posted 20 May 2018 - 09:11 AM

YAHOO  smile.gif smile.gif

 

UPCO and "First Surface Mirror" stickers, correct mold formed Pyrex, an original set, nice cell complete.  I'm hoping for a date, I doubt I could match a drive and motor for a date on motor. I like the straight springs, mostly compacted with collimation wiggle room. I'll probably still cap the springs on each end to hold them centered on the bolts. I don't like sloppy offset shifted wiggly springs. The duct tape edge has to go, hope it's not a big clam holding. Willing to bet this cell needs new rim support which would be a felt finish in Very close but total slip fit diameter. 

 

I totally disagree with bolting in a cell that is not a light press fit, causing tube distortion. It's too easy to make a functional aesthetic shim system based on actual ROUND diameter measurements. Pull a narrow metal measuring tape tight around the OTA and get a Circumference, then divide by pi (3.1416 is crazy close) to get a diameter and radius. This beats trying to measure a guess at best for diameter on a distorted end.

The tape I used ended up being multi scaled and gave me a direct reading of:  C = 40-3/4" - 30cm. undecided.gif  no biggie.

 

O.D. = 9.21"  -------------> 9-1/4"

I.D. = 8.96"    -------------> 9"

wall = 0.125" (1/8")

 

C

 

 

Attached Thumbnails

  • P5190006.JPG
  • P5190012.JPG

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#32 PawPaw

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Posted 20 May 2018 - 07:34 PM

The question Remains as to what just a mount would go for, a reasonable price that is reasonably close to a reasonably interested buyer (imaginary situation to negate shipping and just get a value).  There IS interest in knowing by a few different close proximity people, all of whom are staying quiet on numbers for unbiased input, and seriously curious. Only expectations are for values to be all over the chalk board.  My example is a little above average, good finish texture and coverage, drive, setting circles, good movements, could use simple clean up (grease etc.), good thrust bearing for RA, clean and paint for some Wow....

 

Admittedly,  this scope is complete so it will stay together as an original mount and OTA in spite of the rest of this entry.  The tube is no big deal for repair and everything OTA is here somewhere. Still want a mount only estimate though.

 

Three part harmony or make that three part harm on me.  The duct work outer repair removed exposed the inner repair bolted between the duct work and original bakelite OTA.  I'll keep that inner plate attached till I have epoxy, fiber fill additive (usually Masonite dust), reinforcement layers (brown paper), and other stuff to make actual repair application. Bakelite 'wets' very well to two part epoxy, and it takes well to bondo type fillers. I favor epoxy since I also use that on the setting circles and smaller repairs. I mix epoxy with Masonite sawdust. In this large repair situation, layers of brown wrapping paper encased in the epoxy.

Bondo can be seen in the original focuser hole from a previous repair. The primary end shows a vast array of mounting holes that makes me think this original fix was an experiment and learning experience in primary/secondary optics.  I'll have to get original primary location information, primary specs, reversible mod improvements on the cell, and then make sure the whole cell situation clears the tube end so it can free stand on it's butt.  I have a strong dislike for a newt OTA to have any projections out the bottom and I won't go original if the factory had protrusions.

Here are pictures of my original 8" reflector.  I cannot be exact on the date but the mount precedes the use of Teflon bearings.  My best guess is prior to 1964.

 

Apfever I hope this helps with your OTA tube questions as this one is completely original except for new paint on the tube and mount. Note the finder has the Erfle eyepiece instead of the kellner that came with the later finders.  Also look at the Mirror shape which I find interesting.  The mirror has been removed from the cell and will need recoating as will the secondary........More to come.

Attached Thumbnails

  • Edund 8 inch.jpg
  • Edmund 8 A inch.jpg
  • Edmund 8 B inch.jpg
  • Edmund 8 C inch.jpg
  • Edmund 8 D inchh.jpg
  • Edmund 8 E inch.jpg
  • Edmund 8 G inch.jpg
  • Edmund 8 H inch.jpg
  • Edmund 8 I inch.jpg

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#33 PawPaw

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Posted 20 May 2018 - 08:03 PM

there are plastic/bakelite spacers between the mirror cell and the  OTA.  These spacers are original and are annotated in the original instructions which I will upload soon. 

 

The 8 inch came with the standard 1 1/4 inch rack and pinion focuser and the brass 4 leg spider mount.   

 

3rd pic are the flat thrust washers that came with the extra heavy duty mount and pre-dated the teflon washers.

 

 

 

Attached Thumbnails

  • Edmund 8 K inch.jpg
  • Edmund 8 L.jpg
  • Edmund 8 M.jpg

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#34 terraclarke

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Posted 20 May 2018 - 09:18 PM

Here are pictures of my original 8" reflector.  I cannot be exact on the date but the mount precedes the use of Teflon bearings.  My best guess is prior to 1964.

 

Apfever I hope this helps with your OTA tube questions as this one is completely original except for new paint on the tube and mount. Note the finder has the Erfle eyepiece instead of the kellner that came with the later finders.  Also look at the Mirror shape which I find interesting.  The mirror has been removed from the cell and will need recoating as will the secondary........More to come.

That is the same diagonal spider that I have in the 6” Newt that I built in 1967. I could not remember if I got it from Edmund or Jaegers as I purchased parts from both vendors. I guess it came from Edmund.


Edited by terraclarke, 20 May 2018 - 09:19 PM.


#35 apfever

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Posted 20 May 2018 - 09:21 PM

I found a string in archives for when I bought this. I don't remember any of this in the slightest. It took some time to figure out the search as I tend to scramble the various tries and it didn't help being hidden in archives. I need to put this set together while on it, find the weights, figure out the secondary, focuser, maybe find eyepieces, maybe find out what eyepieces came with it originally or eyepiece options offered, original sales/manual/instuctions etc.   Projects can go fuzzy in a week or so, need to stay on this, at least get it all together.

 

https://www.cloudyni...nd#entry4440656

https://www.cloudyni...ault/?hl=edmund

https://www.cloudyni...unt-comparison/

 

 

found more strings and consolidating. I'm wondering if this might be the focuser after all. The duct work repair did not have spider vane mounting holes. The focuser hole is well done with the notch for a rod mount secondary. That notch is in BOTH the repair as well as the original hole now Bondo. This focuser matches the pictures as well as I can tell but the old pictures aren't great. I can't find the weights (4) or tube straps. Those should be here, usually consolidated with mounts, and I don't recall seeing the weights or straps for some time. I wouldn't have done anything obscure with them. I need to get this together, consolidated.

 

Thanks for the input Paw, that's been awesome. Enough for me today, tomorrow I'll check the original tube for any spider vane mounting holes and pay special attention to possible repair fill in since the original focuser hole was filled.  This secondary is 1-7/8" minor, (1.875").

 

Edit: added third link, just consolidating good stuff, even myself - sorta, 

edit, this IS the focuser secondary. I examined the tube well, inside and out, looked at other original pics of the original strap spider assembly, shoe shined some clean examination, easily trace the outside of the original focuser hole fill in, went all around the upper cage area inside and out, and there's no sign of any coherent spider assembly in any set of 3 or 4 and that's going beyond averted hallucination.

Attached Thumbnails

  • P5200004.JPG
  • P5200005.JPG

Edited by apfever, 21 May 2018 - 10:32 AM.

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#36 PawPaw

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Posted 22 May 2018 - 07:47 AM

I have the instruction manual for the Extra heavy duty mount.  In 1963 it was called the "Heavy Duty Mount"  NO. 85,134.  Per the TOS I cannot post the full instruction manual but will be happy to share it just send me a PM.  I also have the 1963 manual for the "New 8" telescope NO. 85,143.

 

 

Attached Thumbnails

  • Edmund Heavy Duty mount instructions.jpg


#37 tim53

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Posted 22 May 2018 - 09:25 AM

Here are pictures of my original 8" reflector.  I cannot be exact on the date but the mount precedes the use of Teflon bearings.  My best guess is prior to 1964.

 

Apfever I hope this helps with your OTA tube questions as this one is completely original except for new paint on the tube and mount. Note the finder has the Erfle eyepiece instead of the kellner that came with the later finders.  Also look at the Mirror shape which I find interesting.  The mirror has been removed from the cell and will need recoating as will the secondary........More to come.

For some reason, your second to last pic, holding the mirror, gives me the willies.


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#38 apfever

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Posted 22 May 2018 - 05:37 PM

There is very little rust on this mount. The wheels only and a few bolt/fitting all of which are in the bucket. This worked well. I wasn't planning on losing a day though in the Evapo.  So meanwhile....

 

P5210009.JPG



#39 apfever

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Posted 22 May 2018 - 05:48 PM

Color:  This is the Satin Granite.  I hit it a bit heavy in the well hidden and protected area between leg an pier. I don't think these legs have ever been off, I don't think this mount has ever been taken apart. I used a heat gun for a fast fry finish. A real paint job, cured, will be slightly darker and it's starting out pretty darn close to begin with. The original color here is also probably about as dark as age can make it in a place the Sun don't shine.  I already bought three cans of this which I thought Rustoleum stopped making. The next closest thing was a Dark Grey Semi-gloss and that was definitely off. Paint on the leg is shown by red line, bottom half of the middle leg only.

 

It is the 2X solids and is Paint and Primer in one. I found it yesterday at Home DePot.

Attached Thumbnails

  • P5210002.JPG
  • P5210005.JPG

Edited by apfever, 22 May 2018 - 05:51 PM.

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#40 apfever

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Posted 22 May 2018 - 06:46 PM

I found the thrust bearings local for under 5 each thanks to Paw's input on entry #33.  Bud, your input is proving substantial.  I'm buying two, one for each axis.

The mount parts are too big or heavy or both for the dishwasher. Power wash, then wait for the Evapo, then brush down in a moderate bath of TSP (trisodium phosphate).  I'll mix up the TSP from powder. However: YOU CAN'T USE THE STUFF WITH BEING ON THE GRID.  No sewer or storm drain disposal is allowed and you shouldn't. You can put it on your lawn - research that one yourself but experience Highly advised. I'm way off grid and out here and we have another name for TSP, it's called fertilizer and I know how to use it. Not only is it an ultra detergent, but it also does a good job of prepping the old finish for new paint. Strong stuff.

 

Here's the mount and pier down to single nuts and bolts with two worthy exceptions I'll cover. The pressure wash board shows the pier with the test paint on the leg mount area.

Attached Thumbnails

  • P5210008.JPG
  • P5220001.JPG

Edited by apfever, 22 May 2018 - 06:51 PM.

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#41 apfever

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Posted 22 May 2018 - 07:09 PM

Only two things not taken apart:

 

1. The shafts will not be removed from castings. Both shafts have a lot more than the roll pin holding them. They are solid as a rock and I'd assume a hefty press or shrink fit of a good degree. I have no need to remove them and will touch them up nicely with considerations of what looks like a nickel plating.  The roll pin on the RA shaft (goes into the DEC housing) is located behind riveted pointers, and is not accessible. The pointers are the other item not getting off.

 

2. The riveted pointer will not be removed. One of three remains intact. The photo shows the spiral tacks that held the two missing pointers. The tacks (rivets) are rock solid. These little boogers are tuff stuff and I'm leaving them be for now. They are still available but if I make replacement pointers, I'll probably undersize tap the existing holes for small bolts and call it an appropriate upgrade (still reversible if I under tap). 

Attached Thumbnails

  • P5220002.JPG
  • P5220003.JPG

Edited by apfever, 22 May 2018 - 07:13 PM.

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#42 apfever

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Posted 05 June 2018 - 09:32 AM

here it is, used a wrong string before, so just catch up, here is now pictures this morning.
3 pictures of watching paint dry. Only the legs are fresh from yesterday, all the rest is 5 or 6 days old.
Yes, the parts are that heavy to hang and no overkill. A frame angle iron and 6061T6 airframe tubing hangers. I'll start assembly next weekend, maybe more OTA, mirror/cell done.

Attached Thumbnails

  • P6040009.JPG

Edited by apfever, 05 June 2018 - 09:55 AM.

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#43 apfever

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Posted 05 June 2018 - 09:48 AM

The shaft mounts are held in the counterweight(s) for this scope. The weights will be a side line.
These were all done about a week ago.

The rest of everything from disassembly but some will be replaced, all original parts kept bagged. I'm going all out with some good reason. I took a gajillion photos between there and here, share just a few, most for scope posterity records. This mount was surprisingly done right in more ways than one and I'm picky on this. The engineering isn't just brute force but it has plenty of that too. Some one had a lot of that simply done right. The execution, the machining is completely complimentary to the form. I checked a lot of it.

This may go back to Teflon washers. I might get it worthy of a funky flippy balance video like the one posted some months ago on a much smaller scope. A video might take two people to kind of toss it around back and forth. Practicality might have this mass and form work better with a Teflon touch extra of feel with no sticktion. stiction? sticksion, no that doesn't look right. Sticktion?

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#44 apfever

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Posted 05 June 2018 - 10:13 AM

I think this one picture might work. These are a nostalgia trip. The original set screw handles can barely be seen on top of each weight. These are original Magnusson weights from the same time as the Edmund. I'm sorta (only sorta) stealing them from a 1.5" shaft full Magnusson scope and mount which he didn't do a lot of. These are the weights he sold and used. I find it ironic that the Magnuson set up didn't come with setting circles. Bummer. The Magnusson is also a long 8" on 1.5" GEM and the two weights can be split between the scopes, interchanged.
The parts are great but the engineering missed it here. These have a tight 7/16" recess bore and 3/8" set screw threads at the bottom of the bore. The threaded section is a scant fraction inch long. The correct tap for a standard 1/2-13NC is 7/16". I'll drill the threads out and tap the top of the bore for the 1/2" threads. These weight are dimensioned to hold a CAPTIVE friendly faced fine fitting floating pin with a nice looking shorter clamping knob.

This is going to make a very robust looking set up in size, but I think it will fit the looks well. The original bore could have been smaller with a pin and knob.

Attached Thumbnails

  • P6040011.JPG

Edited by apfever, 05 June 2018 - 10:17 AM.

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#45 CCD-Freak

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Posted 05 June 2018 - 10:39 AM

My old Edmund 8" mount has been modified quite a bit.  It is a true "Frankenmount" with a pair of Meade 5" drives, a Vixen saddle plate, a Meade tripod, a Celestron DSC system and a Tech 2000 drive system.  I have not used it much over the last few years but I want to put it on a pier with a large refractor some day.

 

n_a (29).jpg

 

 

John Love

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WD5IKX


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#46 deSitter

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Posted 07 June 2018 - 12:41 PM

here it is, used a wrong string before, so just catch up, here is now pictures this morning.
3 pictures of watching paint dry. Only the legs are fresh from yesterday, all the rest is 5 or 6 days old.
Yes, the parts are that heavy to hang and no overkill. A frame angle iron and 6061T6 airframe tubing hangers. I'll start assembly next weekend, maybe more OTA, mirror/cell done.

Man it dwarfs that RV-6 mount next to it!

 

-drl



#47 apfever

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Posted 07 June 2018 - 02:12 PM

Man it dwarfs that RV-6 mount next to it!
 
-drl


Ha Ha ha...that's no RV-6. It's an 8" Meade 826 mount. That's the one I did total restoration on years ago, down to blue print measurements and adjustments. I have the OTA as well.

#48 apfever

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Posted 16 June 2018 - 10:36 AM

Wheels.

Basic Bassick wheels. Wheel alone is 2-3/8" diameter. Everthing works perfect, nothing ever bent or fixed. I won't paint these for sake of getting paint in all the places is doesn't need to blob. Dry lube goes in the bearings and axel, and a clear non paint rust preventative coating tooth brushed in the rest. A search for 'vintage Bassick casters' will pull these up, seems to have a following. I have another set on a 1.5" GEM and haven't seen any issues with any of them. Very good construction and not just compared to thin metal cheap modern ones.

I painted these down to the edge of the upper race which is ridged from the leg down. The wheel stud is fully threaded and completely screwed into the legs. This means the legs are drilled and tapped full length, another extreme construction. I wanted to paint these over for looks since the top of the wheel stud is so close to the top of the leg. The small exposed part of the wheel stud show the clamping used to install them correctly. You don't want to wrench on the upper race since that might break it loose from its crimped lock.

Attached Thumbnails

  • P6150005.JPG
  • P6150006.JPG

Edited by apfever, 16 June 2018 - 10:41 AM.

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#49 apfever

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Posted 16 June 2018 - 10:50 AM

The mirror before and after, what a mess to start.

D = 7.9"
f = 63-7/16"
F8

The coating has what I'd consider minor wear on part of the edge along with the typical retainer marks. The rest is solid with no issues. This will stay as is for my use. The cell will be a different story.

Attached Thumbnails

  • P5240004 - Copy.JPG
  • P5240007 - Copy.JPG

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#50 apfever

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Posted 19 June 2018 - 04:51 PM

Proudly cast into each leg:

Edmund
South Carolina
East Tific County
Barrington New Jersey

Breaks in the mold. Close examination in person reveals how the mold was just filled in to eliminate what would be fractured letters.

Attached Thumbnails

  • P6190006.JPG

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