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Got my new CEM60 today...

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#151 suvowner

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Posted 06 August 2018 - 05:30 PM

understood, the thing is to image unguided you have to spend more time getting pa dead on, which seems like might take longer than setting up guiding ?   I think if on a pier and dont want to do too long of subs and you can really dial in a perfect pa then the ec version makes more sense. 



#152 Walleye

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Posted 06 August 2018 - 05:54 PM

That's exactly right... The EC is of no benefit for guiding so why spend the $$$??? But I'm still pretty new at this stuff....

I generally get between .45" and .55"... Will re-read later :)

#153 suvowner

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Posted 06 August 2018 - 08:17 PM

averaging .5 arc seconds, it is really hard to beat that,,,,,,


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#154 bobzeq25

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Posted 06 August 2018 - 08:48 PM

so I am still trying to decide on the cem60 vs the cgx, there are a couple of factory refurbished cem60 or cem60 ec , and ioptron certified the seller is legitimate, and that they give the mounts a thorough check and tune of confirm performance e with a new pe curve. 1699 for the non ec and 2799 for the ec, both with no counterweight. which is about 100$. 

 

just wanted some opinions if you would go for the refurb, or not trust it for that amount of discount and just go new ?? 

As most here know, I love the mount.  And I'd definitely spring for new.  I've had one very sad conversation with someone who bought an iEQ45Pro used.  A fair amount of hassle, the resolution was he traded it to iOptron plus cash for new.

 

understood, the thing is to image unguided you have to spend more time getting pa dead on, which seems like might take longer than setting up guiding ?   I think if on a pier and dont want to do too long of subs and you can really dial in a perfect pa then the ec version makes more sense. 

One issue is that the CEM60s EC is not very sophisticated.  Unlike, say a 10Micron, the EC works on PE only, the 10Micron builds an elaborate sky model, and can compensate for things like atmospheric dispersion.

 

there's EC and there's EC.  <smile>



#155 rgsalinger

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Posted 06 August 2018 - 08:59 PM

"The CEM gear system utilizes a magnetic force system for optimal gear meshing. Fully turn the Gear Switch clockwise to disengage the worm from the worm wheel. Turn the Gear Switch counterclockwise to engage the worm to worm wheel, as indicated on the mount. The Gear Switch MUST NOT be left in a position that is in between the Engaged and Disengaged positions. Setting the Gear Switch in between states may damage the worm or worm wheel." (nothing there about adjustments or clutches, right?)

 

Non critical means, in this context that it's not something that is difficult to get corrrect. (Sorry to answer for Bob but I'm waiting for dark out here with nothing else to do.) It is most assuredly NOT the case that you "need to make adjusments" to make the CEM60 work properly. Any mount can arrive from the manufacturer with defects. PM me about my "premium" mount experience. Maybe this one is bad, I dunno.

 

What I do know is that there are no clutches. My bet is that the OP didn't understand or read the manual. They are really just switches. In fact the word "clutch" never even appears in the manual. This is a perfected example of why a mentor is so useful. Anyone familiar with mounts that don't have clutches would have been able to get the OP up and running. If he tightened those puppies up real hard 'cause he thought they were clutches, well .................

 

Rgrds-Ross


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#156 suvowner

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Posted 06 August 2018 - 09:14 PM

directly from ioptron- when asked if the ec version should be able to perform below .5 arc seconds.

 

The EC version comes with 0.3”RMS PE. When guiding, the result is more related to guiding parameters and seeing. 0.5” RMS guiding should not be hard.

 

I guess that is another point, in poor seeing guiding is never that great, but a mount with .3" rms error from the encoders would still get pretty tight stars !!



#157 suvowner

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Posted 06 August 2018 - 09:15 PM

As most here know, I love the mount.  And I'd definitely spring for new.  I've had one very sad conversation with someone who bought an iEQ45Pro used.  A fair amount of hassle, the resolution was he traded it to iOptron plus cash for new.

 

One issue is that the CEM60s EC is not very sophisticated.  Unlike, say a 10Micron, the EC works on PE only, the 10Micron builds an elaborate sky model, and can compensate for things like atmospheric dispersion.

 

there's EC and there's EC.  <smile>

 

agreed, but used vs factory refurbished with proven pec is a different situation I think !!



#158 Walleye

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Posted 06 August 2018 - 09:19 PM

Op here lolol

No, I followed the instructions all was good. I had never had experience with the magnetic switches nor with the type of motors these use.

My "mentor" is the cumulative knowledge of the great folks here :) Which I am thankful for.

I was also waiting on plate to mount the OTA, this mount behaves very different with no load than with normal load (made noises with no load, near silent with load). Yes, I had the CW shaft attached as per instructions when I operated without load.

Anyway, the above comment is correct, I thought there was an "adjustment" to the switches but there really isn't. There is locked down, engaged and disengaged. After using it for a while (one or two nights) it's second nature.

This mount has been setup and forget it since I "felt" the difference between "clutch" and "switch". Extremely enjoyable to setup and be able to forget about it for the rest of the night...

Simply amazing performance for the money...
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#159 Walleye

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Posted 06 August 2018 - 09:29 PM

Here is from the other night... you will see occasional large RA errors... that's from my dew control (hair dryer)....  new dew control on way lol

 

Would probably have been a little better numbers wise if not for the dew control... 

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#160 Walleye

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Posted 06 August 2018 - 09:30 PM

This was only for 15 minutes or so, but it sometimes surprises me... again this was good polar align by eye then didnt even think about the mount again the rest of the night.

 

Amazing... to me anyway lol

 

 

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#161 Walleye

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Posted 06 August 2018 - 09:43 PM

Image from that session... 12 - 300 second subs, discarded a couple (dew control frames lol)  Has issues, I'm still learning but thankfully I don't have to fight the mount :-D

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Edited by Walleye, 06 August 2018 - 09:45 PM.


#162 suvowner

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Posted 06 August 2018 - 09:46 PM

dang very nice.........thanks for posting


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#163 suvowner

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Posted 22 August 2018 - 10:07 PM

got my new cem60 today too.......along with a standard dose of clouds !!

 

IMG_1791.jpg


#164 Walleye

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Posted 23 August 2018 - 07:34 AM

Very nice... Man performance is most important, but that looks amazing NG on the Tri-Pier...

I can't wait to hear the differences the red knobs make... I almost got the higher end encoders...

Hopefully you get a clear night soon, or at least big well situated sucker holes!!!!

#165 Walleye

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Posted 28 August 2018 - 12:09 PM

So may as well be an ongoing review lololol

 

I purchased a used to me ES ED127CF and imaged with the CEM60 and it last night.  At least it was "clear" after buying a scope, but it was soooooo horribly drippy out... and near full moon, but I'll take it.

 

Wow, absolutely rock solid and held .45" error the whole night without effort. 

 

I have ordered a pier extension though, even though it didn't strike close to meridian... not worth risking over a $138 part...

 

 

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#166 suvowner

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Posted 28 August 2018 - 12:43 PM

that thing is long once it is all rigged up......field flatter/reducer might add a little more to it even

 

that is one nice thing about stepper motors they stall pretty easily, i.e. less likely to damage equipment.....


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#167 Arringar

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Posted 29 August 2018 - 10:51 AM

So may as well be an ongoing review lololol

I purchased a used to me ES ED127CF and imaged with the CEM60 and it last night. At least it was "clear" after buying a scope, but it was soooooo horribly drippy out... and near full moon, but I'll take it.

Wow, absolutely rock solid and held .45" error the whole night without effort.

I have ordered a pier extension though, even though it didn't strike close to meridian... not worth risking over a $138 part...



Very nice. But you know for a few dollars more than the tripod and the extension you could get the tri-pier. It is a bit heavier, but honestly that’s kind of the point.

#168 Walleye

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Posted 29 August 2018 - 02:57 PM

Yeah I was looking for a little more lightweight it just snow falls into more and more equipment LOL

#169 ChrisWhite

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Posted 13 September 2018 - 08:09 PM

Been cloudy for 8 weeks.  Finally got a clear night and the CEM60 dusted off...

 

How sweet is this? 

 

Sweet.JPG


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#170 Walleye

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Posted 13 September 2018 - 08:17 PM

That's beauuuuuutiful!!!! Very nice... Can't wait to see images :)

#171 ChrisWhite

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Posted 13 September 2018 - 08:28 PM

That's beauuuuuutiful!!!! Very nice... Can't wait to see images smile.gif

 

Been running total RMS at around .3"

 

My seeing is excellent tonight, which is unusual.  Stars look great, although I had to make DEC a little worse as it was too good relative to RA, lol..


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#172 rockstarbill

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Posted 13 September 2018 - 08:30 PM

Been cloudy for 8 weeks.  Finally got a clear night and the CEM60 dusted off...

 

How sweet is this? 

 

attachicon.gif Sweet.JPG

Excellent night for you, take advantage!


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#173 tbutts1

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Posted 18 December 2018 - 05:11 PM

I've been using the CEM60 for about 6 months now. First mount had RA guiding ssues and was replaced. The second has been fantastic. I have about 25lbs on it, and average 0.45-0.55". I have seen it as low as 0.28"

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#174 Walleye

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Posted 05 September 2019 - 05:19 AM

Howdy Chris, long time no see... I moved to South Central MO and have had 10 times better skies than around Pittsburgh!!!  Moved from  bortle 4 or 5 to 6 or 7 with solid 7 - 7.5 a few miles away...

 

Merc and all,

 

So after owning my CEM 60 for over a year as well, I have not maxed out the 60 pounds but with 43 pound payload and 44 pounds of CW I do get round stars.  I have not checked out those who are actually maxing it out...  Mind you I have taken 600 second exposures just for giggles, but usually limit to 180 seconds due to (previous) light pollution.  I just moved to darker skies and tonight will be the first time out for the 12"... have guests over who want to look at the moon.  I'm seriously stressing over if I remember how to set it up for visual, have not had an eyepiece and diagonal in the scope for well over a year lolol

 

I have found that a Polemaster has helped immensely... before I was within 5 arc minutes now I'm running about 30 arc seconds (or less)... Because of the long focal length I was not able to use some of the free tools... actually I consider the CEM60 and the Polemaster the best purchases I have made...

 

In reading through some of this thread, yup... shooting at .16 image scale was far more difficult that closer to 1 and I now own a 071MC - Pro which does much better.  I got the 083MC for the small pixels to allow for better detail... when I didn't know about the limiting factors involving seeing etc... yea, the complete wrong camera for the application but it made me a better photographer :-)

 

I personally would not hesitate to purchase it again, as a matter of fact I'm going to be getting my "forever" house in the next year and plan to get a CEM120 mounted in the observatory I build.

 

I also found that the magnetic gears, clutches, whatever.... were far easier than I was making them out to be.  Since I learned the mount, it takes 20 minutes to haul out and setup and 10 to take down.  I know exactly by feel where to set the engage - disengage knobs and have not worried about it since.  I am still very careful to not let grubby little hands knock the RA or DEC axis while they are engaged... Dang grandkids thought they were going to hang from it the other day while it sits in my office.

 

With accommodating skies, excellent polar alignment and proper settings, I routinely get .60 arcseconds or less (sometimes in the .35 ish range) with the settings I used the night before.  This is with both the ES ED127CF and the Meade LX200ACF 12".

 

Anyway I hope it helps you and anyone else who stumbles across this thread.  I also agree that iOptron support is top knotch... I only called early on as I've had no problems, but they did a nice job answering my questions and getting me to settle down a bit when it comes to the nuances of the start of higher end mounts.  Yes for me it;s the start of higher end mounts... to others it may not be, but to me it's the start of the better mounts unless you pay considerably more.

 

A couple of logs from the last session... would have been better but one has a slew I think and they both lose a bit during auto focus...

 

Wally aka Bob Young

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#175 Walleye

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Posted 05 September 2019 - 05:20 AM

another log from teh same night... both with the ES ED127CF and 11 pound CW.  Oh, and even though I setup on concrete and have the portable pier, you could still see when I walked by the mount, could not notice on my last driveway.

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Edited by Walleye, 05 September 2019 - 05:21 AM.



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