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4.5 inch reflector is there a great one?

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#51 clamchip

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Posted 13 August 2019 - 01:20 PM

It's pretty much the same, Edmund didn't change the 5/8" shaft mount much.

There are small differences like the dec housing. I think the first change was

Edmund flipped the dec housing over to make room for setting circles. To a

long side up configuration.

And the skinny counterweight shaft disappeared when full 5/8" dec shaft was

extended for the weights.

 

Robert


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#52 clamchip

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Posted 13 August 2019 - 01:36 PM

I was just thinking back to my first of many Edmund 4-1/4" scopes.

I showed up at a customers house and to my surprise there was a

Edmund Deluxe Space Conqueror sitting in the front yard pointing

at zenith.

We worked out a deal and I brought it home.

At the time, before the internet, parts were scarce so I made a pinion

shaft cutting each tooth on the lathe, found some old radio knobs

and it was back in business.

The mirror coatings were and still are a little worn but it is a very 

very sharp telescope pretty amazing really, and got me hooked on

these 4-1/4" jobs.

I've always been hooked on Edmund anything.

Robert

 

post-50896-0-52239900-1481217273_thumb.jpg

 


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#53 terraclarke

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Posted 14 August 2019 - 08:04 AM

Did Meade offer a Japanese 4.5” F8 contemporary with the black Celestron Vixen Japanese 4.5” F8 Newts?



#54 GeneDiG

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Posted 14 August 2019 - 11:16 AM

Yes. Meade offered the Towa made Blue Tube 4420. It's essentially the old Towa built Tasco 11T on a wooden legged EQ2. The stopped down 5x24 finder is the same and the all metal 0.965 focuser is the same. Meade placed a 1.25" adapter in the focuser. I don't own one but I have seen them on the internet.


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#55 Garyth64

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Posted 14 August 2019 - 01:10 PM

Perhaps 15 years ago I purchased a 4.5 inch f/8 primary and a .75 inch secondary mirror from e-copes.  I was interested in a small scope for observing the planets and had owned a 4.25 inch f/12 from Coulter decades ago that was excellent.

 

The .75 inch secondary is only a 16.7% obstruction of the primary and I made a 3 vain spider to hold it.

 

Visually the scope works great for its size and the surrounding sky is very dark when viewing Jupiter. This scope produces a fine image of Saturn at 300x.

 

Last night I dug this scope out of my closet and imaged Jupiter and Saturn when they were about 35 degrees altitude.

 

 

Jupiter and Io.

 

attachicon.gif jup_4_5inch.jpg

 

 

 

attachicon.gif sat_4_5inch.jpg

 

 

Ed in Houston

Wow, those were taken with a 4.5" reflector?


Edited by Garyth64, 14 August 2019 - 01:10 PM.


#56 terraclarke

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Posted 14 August 2019 - 02:48 PM

Yes. Meade offered the Towa made Blue Tube 4420. It's essentially the old Towa built Tasco 11T on a wooden legged EQ2. The stopped down 5x24 finder is the same and the all metal 0.965 focuser is the same. Meade placed a 1.25" adapter in the focuser. I don't own one but I have seen them on the internet.

It’s a shame they weren’t made by Mizar. I believe Mizar supplied some of their 80mm refractors back in the day. Mizar scopes and mounts are soooooo much better than Towa.


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#57 clamchip

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Posted 14 August 2019 - 03:46 PM

If I were in the market for a 4-1/2 inch newt I would look for a Edmund 4-1/4 inch.

Manly because of the primary, and as much as I love the white tube Edmund scopes

from the earlier years I'd go for a late model red tube.

The end of the white tubes in the late 1970's saw the mirrors go from "better than 1/4 wave"

to 1/8 wave and even 1/10 wave as the telescopes transitioned to the red tubes.

Edmund started making their own optics in house about this time, and Robert Edmund

took over the business from his dad Norm Edmund. I'm not sure if these two events

factored in on the greater accuracy but it probably had something to do with it, and we

all know  today Edmund Optics is a giant in the field of optics.

I would start with a stock Edmund red tube 4-1/4" and make improvements as needed if

you feel there is room for improvement.

Or a late white tube, you can tell a late white tube because it will not have saddle bolt holes

in the tube, by this time they came from the factory with tube straps which I don't care

for much.

Back to the optics. 

I have a late primary and it is fabulous. Any of these Edmund mirrors are great but the late 

one I have is really great I think.

Robert

Click on these to enlarge, a late white tube and a red tube.

 

IMG_9362.jpg

IMG_9363.jpg


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#58 clamchip

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Posted 14 August 2019 - 04:16 PM

Here's some pictures of my special. I named it Gort because drill bits just bounce off him:

https://www.youtube....h?v=5NZXmq-E2tM

Pretty much all Edmund late model except the tube. I bought it unfinished and finished it.

Notice the tan focuser, the felt strips are really nice. Don't get me wrong, I still love the 

white tubes best but these little improvements are definitely just that, improvements.

The late primary is thicker. Same old steel cell that goes back to the fifties Pal Jr.

After some experimentation I'm using the half of a binocular prism Edmund was using in 

these probably until they ran out of WW2 binocular prisms!

Robert

 

post-50896-0-11112300-1510887800.jpg

post-50896-0-65384300-1471304338_thumb.jpg

post-50896-0-03485300-1510895825.jpg

post-50896-0-75370100-1471304378_thumb.jpg

post-50896-0-11128400-1471304362_thumb.jpg


Edited by clamchip, 14 August 2019 - 05:16 PM.

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#59 grafton

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Posted 14 August 2019 - 04:30 PM

Wow, those were taken with a 4.5" reflector?

Yes. The Jupiter and Saturn images were taken with an ASI120MC-S video cam and a 4.5 inch f/8 using a 3x barlow.

 

Here is another image taken the night after the other two on the evening of the 12th.

 

 

Io and its shadow are in transit with Europa off in the distance. Io is just about to exit the limb of Jupiter with its shadow near the central meridian.

 

 

Jup_Io_Europa.jpg

 

Ed in Houston


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#60 terraclarke

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Posted 14 August 2019 - 07:19 PM

If I were in the market for a 4-1/2 inch newt I would look for a Edmund 4-1/4 inch.

Manly because of the primary, and as much as I love the white tube Edmund scopes

from the earlier years I'd go for a late model red tube.

The end of the white tubes in the late 1970's saw the mirrors go from "better than 1/4 wave"

to 1/8 wave and even 1/10 wave as the telescopes transitioned to the red tubes.

Edmund started making their own optics in house about this time, and Robert Edmund

took over the business from his dad Norm Edmund. I'm not sure if these two events

factored in on the greater accuracy but it probably had something to do with it, and we

all know  today Edmund Optics is a giant in the field of optics.

I would start with a stock Edmund red tube 4-1/4" and make improvements as needed if

you feel there is room for improvement.

Or a late white tube, you can tell a late white tube because it will not have saddle bolt holes

in the tube, by this time they came from the factory with tube straps which I don't care

for much.

Back to the optics. 

I have a late primary and it is fabulous. Any of these Edmund mirrors are great but the late 

one I have is really great I think.

Robert

Click on these to enlarge, a late white tube and a red tube.

 

attachicon.gif IMG_9362.jpg

attachicon.gif IMG_9363.jpg

I gave a red 4.25” away two years ago this Fall when I was cramped for space and began clearing stuff out. I rather regret it! Just a little twinge of regret mind you, just the slightest twinge.

 

:bawling:


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#61 clamchip

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Posted 14 August 2019 - 07:50 PM

Ed Ting didn't think too highly of the Edmund 4-1/4" f/10.6 but oh well.

I love Ed's reviews and I feel I should present the other side of the coin:

https://scopereviews.com/page1x.html

 

Robert 


Edited by clamchip, 14 August 2019 - 07:53 PM.

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#62 terraclarke

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Posted 14 August 2019 - 10:18 PM

Ed Ting didn't think too highly of the Edmund 4-1/4" f/10.6 but oh well.

I love Ed's reviews and I feel I should present the other side of the coin:

https://scopereviews.com/page1x.html

 

Robert 

I like Ed’s reviews as well. He has a wonderful sense of humor, and a real bent for the perfect tongue-in-cheek comment. His writing is as enjoyable as it it informative!


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#63 apfever

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Posted 15 August 2019 - 02:18 AM

I disagree on the point I edited to bold above.

I agree that the performance, light grasp, and off-the-shelf quality of a 6" Newtonian are better than a 4.5 f/8 class Newtonian.

But the smaller scope for me is very easy to set up, move around, and use. For me and I would guess a large portion of the population setting up the smaller scope requires very little effort. If the set up includes a GEM such as a Vixen Polaris or Super Polaris mount, that would be heavier and does require a little lifting. Many 4.5 newts were matched with a smaller EQ mount, although those mounts are not as steady. Ironically, sometimes the smaller mount requires more effort because they are not quite up to supporting the weight of the tube.

 

A 6" f/8 is a heavier, longer scope. For me, even a 6" f/5 requires effort at lifting the weight to set up, take down, move around, etc. A 6" f/5 or F/8 would also require at least a Polaris class mount.

The difference between 4.5" and 6" class of scopes is relevant if the user wants a faster and easier set up either some of the time, or simply does not want or cannot deal with the heavier scope all of time. (Hmm. Read that sentence a second time).

If I had a situation where I could wheel out something like a Cave 6"f/8, that would be the better choice. But like many, I do not have that luxury, and portability and the effort of setting up and taking down are major factors.

 

LGM

PS If you bench press 200 lbs this probably irrelevant to you.

That explains it, I can do over 200 bench.

I think the C4.5 in the early versions classifies as one of the greats.


Edited by apfever, 15 August 2019 - 02:20 AM.

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#64 Bomber Bob

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Posted 15 August 2019 - 04:53 AM

I've had 2 Celestron / Vixen 4.5" mirror sets come through my shed, and both had consistent high quality (as tested in a modern China-made tube assembly that I used later to make my Edmund 4" F15 Cassegrain).  As a matter of fact, I think I still have one set boxed up, that didn't get taken in the Free To A Good Home thread.  I may put it back out there, along with some other dust-gatherers...

 

But the absolute best reflector in this class that I've owned was the Hino Mizar P100.  It really was a 90mm APO equivalent.  I was serious when I started down-sizing, and it went to a fellow CNer -- and he's thrilled with it.  (But I kept my RV-6 -- proof that Criterion could do something right!)


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