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The New TEC140FL or TAK 150B ?

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#26 GeneralT001

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Posted 07 June 2018 - 08:19 AM

Thanks all for the info/feedback. Really appreciate it. My plan will be to look out for a TOA 150 used between now and when the TEC140FL is ready. If I'm lucky enough to get the TAK great but if not I still get a fantastic TEC - win win :)



#27 gnowellsct

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Posted 07 June 2018 - 08:30 AM

Between these two refractors…

 

If this is an observatory scope and budget is NOT an issue and for visual you want those extra 10mm for that last bit of resolution and for imaging you want that last bit of color correction then there is no reason not to get the Tak.

 

However, just how much it’s worth it to you to get those last bits or percentages of performance is a question that only you can answer.

 

I once sold a 105mm triplet apo with killer LZOS optics to purchase a Tak 120. Only a 15mm difference. I would do it again in a minute.

 

Bob

As well you should (not want to go back).  But with the square of the radius the ten or fifteen mm becomes progressively less important.  That is, your jump from 105 to 120 is bigger than 10 mm in OP and is also *relatively* more important, aperture A compared to Aperture B.  That's why the initial series of jumps in small refractors, 60 to 80, 80 to 90, 90 to 100, all generate such interest here.   To an extent that seems a bit comical if you're used to the aperture related discussions in Newtonian or SCT fora.  (SCTs quickly get left in the dust once the discussion goes to > 35 cm.)

 

On the one hand, aperture change in small scopes is significant.  You can tell.  On the other hand, the effects of increasing aperture at the amateur level are increasingly marginal.  (consider a 20 inch Newt vs a 22 inch Newt).  And very small apertures tend to deliver more than you think they can. 

 

The first thing that is obvious that is never discussed is what is the available mount.  If it is in the class, say, of AP1100 then that part of the discussion is over and one can consider the relative merits of the optics and their apertures.  If it is a Mach 1 or G11 the 140 mm should prevail.  If it is an AVX or similar then the less expensive apo should prevail and saved funds, as well as additional, should be put into the mount.

 

Greg N


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#28 RAKing

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Posted 07 June 2018 - 08:54 AM

I wish I could own a TOA-150, but that is not physically possible for me.  I did own a TOA-130 and I also own a TEC 140ED.  If I had an observatory, I would buy the TOA-150 in a nanosecond and get some help to mount it. lol.gif

 

The dual ED glass in the TOA series renders the most beautiful star colors and sharpest views I have ever seen - followed closely by the fluorite objective in my Tak FS-128.  So your choice might end up being between "perfect" (TOA) and "slightly smaller perfect" (TEC-FL).  Tough choice!

 

Yuri has not shipped any new TEC 140FL yet, but I expect they will work just as well as my "old fashioned" ED version.  I also wouldn't worry about fluorite.  My 15-year old FS-128 - with the fluorite objective (on the outside! scared.gif ) - still looks brand new.

 

Best of luck with your decision,

 

Ron


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#29 Erik Bakker

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Posted 07 June 2018 - 09:09 AM

There is something to be said for scopes that show star colors well waytogo.gif



#30 turtle86

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Posted 07 June 2018 - 09:11 AM

Thanks all for the info/feedback. Really appreciate it. My plan will be to look out for a TOA 150 used between now and when the TEC140FL is ready. If I'm lucky enough to get the TAK great but if not I still get a fantastic TEC - win win smile.gif

 

waytogo.gif  Definitely a win-win. 

 

The TOA 150 would be the ultimate imaging instrument (and no doubt awesome visually) but at 44 pounds it's not exactly a grab and go and is more of an observatory instrument.  The TEC 140 weighs less than half but is only 10mm less, and would be much much portable if you ever wanted to take it to another location.  Each has its advantages, but most people would be thrilled with either one.


Edited by turtle86, 07 June 2018 - 09:18 AM.

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#31 DeanS

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Posted 07 June 2018 - 09:20 AM

Had a TOA-150 before my current TEC140.  Upgraded the original junk focuser to the B model which made a huge difference.  However, for me the cool down time was an issue and I had a hard time keeping it in focus since our winter temps drop so quickly.  If I lived in a warmer climate I probably would have kept it.

 

My TEC140 is a great scope, particularly for 1/2 the price of the Tak.  One just came up in the CN classified for a very good price, a 2017 model.

 

Oh, and still doing some comparisons with it to the AP130GTX.  Can't decide but leaning to the TEC.

 

Dean


Edited by DeanS, 07 June 2018 - 10:01 AM.

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#32 Richard Whalen

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Posted 07 June 2018 - 09:29 AM

Or keep your eyes open for a pre owned AP 155 EDFS.


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#33 turtle86

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Posted 07 June 2018 - 11:57 AM

Had a TOA-150 before my current TEC140.  Upgraded the original junk focuser to the B model which made a huge difference.  However, for me the cool down time was an issue and I had a hard time keeping it in focus since our winter temps drop so quickly.  If I lived in a warmer climate I probably would have kept it.

 

My TEC140 is a great scope, particularly for 1/2 the price of the Tak.  One just came up in the CN classified for a very good price, a 2017 model.

 

Oh, and still doing some comparisons with it to the AP130GTX.  Can't decide but leaning to the TEC.

 

Dean

 

That TEC140 does look like a good deal. If I hadn't just bought an AP130GT, I'd be all over it like a spider monkey. :grin:


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#34 marcus_z

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Posted 07 June 2018 - 01:20 PM

I wonder a little bit about the choice of the scopes. I would compare the following scopes:

1. TOA-130 vs. APO140FL

2. TOA-150 vs. APO160FL

I recommend to take the largest scope you can carry and afford, so either choose beteen set 1. or 2. and then choose between oil-spaced, little large aperture vs. air-spaced, perfectly corrected. Take oil-spaced when you have large temperature differences through the night, take perfectly corrected when you rarely have good seeing.


Edited by marcus_z, 07 June 2018 - 01:49 PM.

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#35 jrbarnett

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Posted 07 June 2018 - 05:31 PM

Thanks all for the info/feedback. Really appreciate it. My plan will be to look out for a TOA 150 used between now and when the TEC140FL is ready. If I'm lucky enough to get the TAK great but if not I still get a fantastic TEC - win win smile.gif

The TOA-130 is also a marvelous imaging rig.  For primarily imaging I would actually probably choose even a TOA-130 over a TEC; I think of the TEC as a premium visual refractor that is imaging capable but not optimized (in design terms) for imaging.  For a CCD the extra 10mm, in either case, isn't going to make very much difference.  Best of all a new TOA-130 is a fraction of the cost of a new TOA-150 and a used TOA-130, like the TOA-150, depreciates signficantly and probably represents the best value in 5" refractors for imaging.

 

Best,

 

Jim


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#36 bigjy989

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Posted 07 June 2018 - 05:38 PM

Your asking the wrong question.

One TOA-150 or two TEC140’s. One to image and one to look through or twice the lights...
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#37 GeneralT001

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Posted 07 June 2018 - 05:48 PM

Your asking the wrong question.

One TOA-150 or two TEC140’s. One to image and one to look through or twice the lights...

Lol...that's a good point!!



#38 turtle86

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Posted 07 June 2018 - 06:21 PM

The TOA-130 is also a marvelous imaging rig.  For primarily imaging I would actually probably choose even a TOA-130 over a TEC; I think of the TEC as a premium visual refractor that is imaging capable but not optimized (in design terms) for imaging.  For a CCD the extra 10mm, in either case, isn't going to make very much difference.  Best of all a new TOA-130 is a fraction of the cost of a new TOA-150 and a used TOA-130, like the TOA-150, depreciates signficantly and probably represents the best value in 5" refractors for imaging.

 

Best,

 

Jim

 

If if were my money, I’d take the TOA 130 over the TOA 150 as the money saved alone (at least when comparing the prices for new scopes) would pay for something like a Mach 1 mount.


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#39 MooEy

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Posted 07 June 2018 - 07:50 PM

If if were my money, I’d take the TOA 130 over the TOA 150 as the money saved alone (at least when comparing the prices for new scopes) would pay for something like a Mach 1 mount.


That’s not a good way to manage your budget. What I propose instead is as follow

1. Spend all the money on a good refractor
2. Realise you don’t have a good enough mount
3. Request for additional funding from the CFO
4. Spend the additional funding on the mount
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#40 gnowellsct

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Posted 07 June 2018 - 08:01 PM

That’s not a good way to manage your budget. What I propose instead is as follow

1. Spend all the money on a good refractor
2. Realise you don’t have a good enough mount
3. Request for additional funding from the CFO
4. Spend the additional funding on the mount

The particularly attractive part of this is that the less said about the telescope the better.  You can get the TOA 130 and a good mount and just call it the "white refractor."  Later on  when you get the TOA 150 you just keep calling it the "white refractor."  It will not be noticed.  


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#41 Jeff B

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Posted 07 June 2018 - 08:52 PM

Lol...that's a good point!!

That is an excellent point actually.  Have you seen the pictures of the TEC 140ED bino-scope?

 

Also, for the price of the TOA, you could get a brand new TEC 140FL and a TTS Panther mounting or close to it.

 

IMO you are on a solid path waiting for the TEC.  If the new FL version is anything like the ED version I have, I may just "marry up" with the FL.

 

Jeff

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#42 MooEy

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Posted 07 June 2018 - 10:37 PM

The particularly attractive part of this is that the less said about the telescope the better. You can get the TOA 130 and a good mount and just call it the "white refractor." Later on when you get the TOA 150 you just keep calling it the "white refractor." It will not be noticed.


Which is exactly why most of my scopes are either borgs or they have feathertouch focusers. The CFO couldn’t figure out anything.

#43 cam1936

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Posted 07 June 2018 - 11:01 PM

The particularly attractive part of this is that the less said about the telescope the better. You can get the TOA 130 and a good mount and just call it the "white refractor." Later on when you get the TOA 150 you just keep calling it the "white refractor." It will not be noticed.


Do eyebrows not get raised when the 5 figure credit card statement rolls in???

#44 MooEy

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Posted 07 June 2018 - 11:18 PM

Do eyebrows not get raised when the 5 figure credit card statement rolls in???


Oh, opt seems to have repayment programmes now. A few hundred bucks a month shouldn’t be obvious right?

#45 GeneralT001

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Posted 07 June 2018 - 11:57 PM

Oh, opt seems to have repayment programmes now. A few hundred bucks a month shouldn’t be obvious right?

 

Wonder if that extends to Canadians and their loonies??



#46 gnowellsct

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Posted 08 June 2018 - 12:07 AM

Do eyebrows not get raised when the 5 figure credit card statement rolls in???

This why the Good Lord gave us jars to stash the occasional twenty in and money orders to pay for them.  Sometimes you make up your mind and do what you gotta do.

 

However, I personally have not tested the theory past the FS128.  GN



#47 dr.who

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Posted 08 June 2018 - 12:37 AM

I have owned the TEC 140, TOA 150, AP 155 EDFS, and currently have a TOA 130.

First of all the TOA 150 is 45 lbs with the counterweight that is used to balance the front heavy nose so visual use is easier. It is still a heavy scope at 35 lbs.

Secondly the best color correction visually or for AP is going to be the TOA’s. It was very clear to me but not outrageously so. The TEC’s and I believe but may be wrong the AP’s as well are corrected for visual over AP use. Look into the blue star bloat issue with more sensitive CCD’s people were having including Peter in Reno who images with a TEC 140.

If you have the money and mount get the TOA 150. If you don’t the TOA 130 is no slouch and at a much lower weight and cost is a very good option. And one you should consider.
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#48 Erik Bakker

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Posted 08 June 2018 - 04:00 AM

There is something special about a really good scope fitted with a really good mount. That makes the TOA130 with a suitable mount a very appealing choice. Relatively affordable and much more manageable bulk compared to the TOA150 makes for a serious third option IMO.


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#49 t.r.

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Posted 08 June 2018 - 08:19 AM

For cost/benefit the Toa130 and Mach 1 recommendation is the combo to beat! I don't think it can be for an imaging rig.
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#50 jrbarnett

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Posted 08 June 2018 - 09:21 AM

If if were my money, I’d take the TOA 130 over the TOA 150 as the money saved alone (at least when comparing the prices for new scopes) would pay for something like a Mach 1 mount.

Or a really nice, fancy camera to use with the TOA-130, should you already have a nice mount.

 

Or one of those fancy electric commuter bikes.

 

 

:)

 

Best,

 

Jim




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