30 replies to this topic

[ANM]

New Meade DSI IV's

 

https://www.meade.co...i-iv-color.html

https://www.meade.co...monochrome.html

 

 

Edited by ANM, 15 June 2018 - 06:33 PM.

[jgraham]

It is neat to see Meade get back into the imaging game. I had a lot of fun with the DSI I, II, and III (color and monochrome) and I still have them. I wonder what chip they are using in the 16 Mp monochrome (and the color for that matter).

 

Neat stuff!

Edited by jgraham, 16 June 2018 - 01:22 AM.

[UniversalMaster]

Panasonic MN34230, see
https://optcorp.com/...elescope-camera

[schmeah]

Cooling? Cooling????

[rigel123]

Cooling? Cooling????

OPT site shows 2 stage, -40 below ambient

[ANM]

It is neat to see Meade get back into the imaging game. I had a lot of fun with the DSI I, II, and III (color and monochrome) and I still have them. I wonder what chip they are using in the 16 Mp monochrome (and the color for that matter).

 

Neat stuff!

Yes it is good to see Meade back in it! The chip is a Panasonic CMOS chip that is listed as 4/3"

 

BTW it has a T2 connection to scope...

Edited by ANM, 16 June 2018 - 10:34 AM.

[jgraham]

The type 4/3" can be very nice. I am having a great time with my ZWO ASI294MC Pro and it holds its own very well against the APS-c used in the ZWO ASI071MC Pro. For many scopes the slightly smaller 4/3" is a good match.

 

Cool beans.

 

...and yes, it is great to see that the new DSIs are cooled.

[Jon Rista]

Looks like they have joined the Panasonic M club. Now there are four major options with cooling out there. 

[SpaceX]

Are there any other opinions out there on the Meade DSI 4? I intend to buy the mono version of it.

 

Disclaimer: I am a huge Meade and DSI/LPI fanboy.

[mikefulb]

I'm not sure on what grounds one could judge Meade as having more expertise or support ability for an imaging device than the other better established players.

[SpaceX]

I'm not sure on what grounds one could judge Meade as having more expertise or support ability for an imaging device than the other better established players.

I agree. Me being a fan of Meade is entirely arbitrary.

 

The DSI used to be in the 300-500$ range with a target audience of hobbyists. What would the target audience for a 1200$ imager from Meade be? The specs seem fine, but at this price point, why not spend a few hundred more and go with SBIG, ZWO ASI 1600 Pro, FLI?

[Mike7Mak]

SBIG, FLI? Have you priced any of those? Meade is not competing with them.

 

Speaking entirely from my own personal perspective, Meade is a day late and a dollar short with this one. Had they come out with this right after the DSI 3 model and used a Sony ICX chip I'd have been all over it. I don't blame them for jumping on the cmos bandwagon though, but for my money the no amp glow, low dark current, high QE, Sony chips are worth every penny in ease of processing. I went from the DSIpro2 to an SBIG 402me and then to the Atik 314L I'm using now. I'm a bit of a Meade fanboy too but I'm Sony ICX ccd all the way. Now if Sony would just make one like the KAF2022, square with 7-9 micron pixels, fits under 1.25" filters, I'd sell the house to buy it.

[Dshives]

I own the DSI I and III... Really disappointed with software support over th he years.

[turchinc]

I own the DSI I and III... Really disappointed with software support over th he years.

I purchased the DSI-IV last autumn and agree wholeheartedly with this sentiment. Their imaging software is weak and unsuited for any deep sky imaging (and I think I am being generous with that assessment). I have had serious problems getting the camera working with other software such as APT and SharpCap, including random crashes on trivial issues like reading the temperature or adjusting gain. The ASCOM driver does not work at all with one of my Windows 10 PCs (crashes when opening the options dialog - despite a complete reformat of the - already brand new - machine). And their customer support has been worse than I could have even imagined.

 

I contacted ASCOM hoping they might be able to help with the driver issues:

https://ascomtalk.gr.../28885977#40157

but they confirmed it is in the Meade driver and not the framework. They also confirmed my experience with their support: "If you want to get Meade to address the issue then keep trying to contact them.Their CS is notoriously poor, so good luck!"

Well it has been over three months and no useful reply. No reply at all until I CC'ed every Meade Sales/Marketing/PR email address I could find

 

I am sure all AP hardware and software has some issues (and this is my very first foray into AP at all!), but compared to the ZWO on my guide scope, working with this product and their support team has been a nightmare. It is sad, I was so excited by it and I went with the DSI-IV over the ZWO ASI 1600 MC Pro Color because the latter had been discontinued and I was concerned about driver support whereas the DSI-IV just came out. I now question that decision.

 

I recently listened to their president do an interview on optcorp's Space Junk podcast

https://optcorp.com/...r-aniceto-meade

and he emphasized how quality had improved under his watch. I can't imagine how it was before then in that case! But maybe he was just referring to their optics, which I cannot comment on.

[OldManSky]

Mead DSI-IV monochrome:  $1,199

ZWO ASI1600MM Pro Monochrome:  $1,280

QHY 163 monochrome:  $1,199

 

Same chip.  Same interface.  Same USB hub.  Possibly even the same camera (I suspect Meade doesn't manufacture these...could be ZWO, could be QHY (which it probably is), could be...?).

$81 more for the ZWO.

Same price for the QHY.

 

Hmm.

Edited by OldManSky, 19 March 2019 - 07:58 PM.

[turchinc]

Mead DSI-IV monochrome:  $1,199

ZWO ASI1600MM Pro Monochrome:  $1,280

QHY 163 monochrome:  $1,199

 

Same chip.  Same interface.  Same USB hub.  Possibly even the same camera (I suspect Meade doesn't manufacture these...could be ZWO, could be QHY (which it probably is), could be...?).

$81 more for the ZWO.

Same price for the QHY.

 

Yup. And there is also a camera by mallincam and toupcam with identical specs and if you look at the software shipped with it, it's all just the same stuff with different names and logos, probably all white labeled from the same manufacturer. Oh and the same error messages in various forums I should add

 

http://forum.mainseq...nect-error/9144

https://ascomtalk.gr.../28829593#40282

Not a great sign. No replies from the other vendors/manufacturers either. 

Edited by turchinc, 20 March 2019 - 01:39 AM.

[Paul AZ]

I just bought the Meade DSI IV color about a week or so ago. So far I have only loaded the software and drivers and tested the camera to see if I get anything on the laptop. All looks fine and I am able to see an image, temp etc when plugged into power cord. However, initially the disc that came with the camera did not load. At first I thought my DVD drive was bad but I tried my old Neximage 5 disc and it opened fine. So with a bad disc I went to Meade website to find the software and downloaded all 4 items. What they don't tell you is that you need ASCOM v6.4 loaded. It had been awhile since I refreshed that software so I got it updated and then everything loaded just fine. While I wait for my skies here in Glendale AZ to clear up I am slowly reading through the user manual. This is my first deep sky camera and I hope I don't run into issues once I am able to use it outside.

 

As for Meade customer service, they never responded to me when I emailed about the bad disc. I did watch a Youtube video from NEAF 2016 with Meade’s Scott Byrum and Dennis di Cicco discussing the LX600's. I am sure that Scott Byrum is a good person but he seemed to just kind of ho-hum, or at least not as excited as Dennis, about the products. Good thing Dennis di Cicco was there to plug the product. Who knows, perhaps it was somewhat scripted. Way outside my finances. Imagine spending that kind of cash and then get no reply back from Meade CS? :-S

Edited by Paul AZ, 19 May 2019 - 10:19 PM.

[Paul AZ]

Here are a couple of pics. The overall appearance/finish is much better than the other brands of same/similar design that I have seen referenced...

Attached Thumbnails

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[sebastien79]

the rear looks like the Altair Hypercam  ... :

 

Edited by sebastien79, 20 May 2019 - 07:34 AM.

[aneeg]

Then it is a Touptec cam. In S&T June issue the mono version is on test.

 

Arne

[Paul AZ]

Just looked at the Alltair. Looks to have similar features as the Meade but with a smaller sensor. They use the Sony 183 1 inch sensor (larger crop factor at 2.75 crop) and Meade has the Panasonic 4/3 size sensor (2x crop vs full frame). I paid $849 on B&H, so about $300 less than Alltair's version. Once I am able to take some pics I'll be sure to post a few.

[Paul AZ]

You can find both models listed on Touptek's website here: http://touptek.com/p...?lang=en&id=273

[turchinc]

Quick update: I am still using the Meade DSI-IV for imaging. And despite quirky unresolved issues noted above and the flakey support, I am not entirely unhappy with it.

 

Here is a selection of images I have done with it: https://photos.app.g...h8FAdz4vRXpdJK9

 

All the DSO images (except one early image of M33 through my guide scope) are taken with the DSI-IV, mostly using APT. I am still an absolute beginner, so I know there is much room to improve (I think I need to work harder on achieving a perfect focus for starters!).

 

Here is my current setup

• Telescope/Mount: Explore Scientific ED80mm (480mm f/6) APO Triplet on a Celestron AVX mount
• Main imaging camera: Meade DSI-IV (Color) with Optolong CLS-CCD Light Pollution Filter
• Guidescope/Camera: PrimaLuceLab 60mm (240mm f/4) + ZWO ZWO ASI120MM Mini

 

And my workflow:

• SharpCap to do polar align. This works great!
  • Strangely even the ASCOM camera properties dialog for my DSI-IV works using SharpCap, which  does not open in any other program including the ASCOM diagnostics, strange!
  • Unfortunately, SharpCap has trouble blind solving (my) images with the DSI-IV ("only found one star..."), I need to debug this.
  • But APT never does, so I did not continue with my image workflow in SharpCap, though I would actually like to use it more since it really has some cool features.
• Once polar aligned, switch to APT and use it for GoTo and manual blind solving
  • Note: I am not using GoTo++ which frequently fails for me. I have not analysed in detail, but it seems as if the image APT sends to blind solve does not get updated.
  • That is, it solves for the initial position (this works), then slews, then images and solves for the new position, but in this case, seems to solve again on the previous image!?
  • Result: additional slewing and I never get to the target. I have had it work, but not consistently.
  • Using the standard GoTo command and then doing a manual image and blind solving it to "figure out" where I am seems to work better.
  • Then I can sync and then do another GoTo if needed
• I occasionally use Stellarium with Stellarium Scope to GoTo and Slew.
  • This is nice if you need / want a more visual experience and to monitor where Celestron "thinks" it is slewing to
• Imaging with APT
  • like I said, clicking the properties dialog to configure does not work, so need to set this externally or use the ring-thingy which seems to work
  • (Guiding with PHD2 and APT using my ZWO ASI 120 MM)
  • I feel like the preview image and stretch in APT is not working great in APT with my DSI-IV (I am comparing to what I see in youtube videos to what I see on my screen) but it is good enough to see your target.
• For better "previews" I use DSS Live, and auto stack them
  • Very nice to keep an eye on how the quality of the captures is being "rated" and trends over time.
• Post processing in DSS and photoshop with astronomy tools action kit.
  • I need to learn a lot more there!
• Other important notes
  • I have to setup / break down my setup for every imaging session.
  • It seems very important to reproduce which hardware is connected to which USB ports.
  • Even doing so, I sometimes have sessions where the PC does not want to recognize anything
  • Usually a reboot / power cycle on everything seems to help
  • I use an RDP client to manage everything remotely, this works fairly well at this point
  • I have no monitor on the PC connected to my scope, so when e.g. polar aligning, I use an RDP client on my mobile phone to "control" things outside - works well enough for that!

I guess if you have strong technical skills and are quick to analyze problems and improvise solutions,the DSI-IV is not a bad purchase. I do wonder however, if every imaging setup is that much hassle to get up and running. It may very well be, in that case I guess this is just par for the course.

 

[Paul AZ]

Nice pics.   I hope to be able to get going with mine this weekend. For now I will focus on the Moon and planets until I get a guide camera. I had read that the Neximage 5 may work as guide camera, but it may not be sensitive enough so I will likely get same one you are using from ZWO and a cheap guide scope. Just need to wait a little so my wife does not get upset with too many purchases in the same month.

[Paul AZ]

Well, I used the Meade DSI IV for the first time last night. We had clear skies here in Glendale and the Moon was not out until around midnight. This is really my first time using a camera like this and since I never really needed accurate polar alignment, what I had done in the past, many months prior since I seldom get outside, was to roughly point the scope north and then a quick 2 star align. I used my Orion Atlas mount with the Meade 6inch Mak Cass. I also connected the hand controller to my laptop to use Stellarium. Much easier than using the hand controller.

 

So last night was my first time using an illuminated reticle eyepiece to attempt drift alignment. I picked up the Meade version at 9mm really cheap for about $35 and it works great. I am trying to avoid too much tech as I am just getting started with this and may eventually graduate to using PHD2 with a camera. Well, I got it just about right. It took some time since I did not have the scope pointed true north and I cannot see Polaris from my backyard.

 

As for the Meade DSI camera, I have plenty to learn. I'll need to play with the different settings and see what yields the best view. I was able to grab a few shots of Jupiter that I want to attempt to stack. I'll post those later. The view from the 20mm eyepiece was great but I need plenty of work with the camera and software settings. I have a sabbatical coming up so I will spend as many nights as I can learning.

 

One thought to improve my alignment is to take some 2x4 wood and plane it and form a square corner 'L' shape and add a tapered edge base that will fit on my mounts saddle. Then I'll see how close to Polaris I can get by leveling the mount, using the compass app to align to true north (setting phone on base arm of the L square), and then mount the smartphone on other side of the L so that the phone is pointed in same direction as my polar scope. Then start the SkyMap app, after proper calibration of course, and use the app to get a better alignment with Polaris. I expect that this will reduce the amount of time I will spend with the drift alignment process. I used the steps from Starizona site and they worked great for me so I just need a better starting point. I don't have an iPhone and don't care to own one so I can't access that free Polar alignment app that only exists for Apple.