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Jupiter from Dallas 06/25/2018 ASI224MC + ProPlanet 742 IR Filter

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#1 GeorgeInDallas

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Posted 26 June 2018 - 10:18 AM

I recently read several post about using an IR bandpass filter with the ASI224MC camera. Last night I gave it a try with my Astronomic PlanetPro 742 filter. I was very happy with the results. Seeing was good but not great. Equipment: C14, Optec Focuser, ProPlanet 742 filter, ZWO ADC, TeleVue 2x Barlow (shortened to 1.67x), ZWO ASI224MC camera. Sampling 0.12 arcsec per pixel. I changed my sampling from 0.08" to 0.12" following discussions with Toxman and Tom Glenn (thanks for the suggestions). 

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  • 2018-06-26-0256_9-IR-JupWavPS.jpg

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#2 roelb

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Posted 26 June 2018 - 03:03 PM

My understanding was to use a IR pass filter for mono and a IR cut filter for color cameras. Am I wrong?

#3 Tom Glenn

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Posted 26 June 2018 - 03:09 PM

Great image George! 


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#4 Tom Glenn

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Posted 26 June 2018 - 03:11 PM

My understanding was to use a IR pass filter for mono and a IR cut filter for color cameras. Am I wrong?

IR cut filter is used on color cameras because the sensors are sensitive to IR wavelengths and this throws off the color balance.  On a mono camera you can use whatever filter you want.  IR gives a different perspective and accentuates different details.  Also, some color cameras such as the ASI224mc are so sensitive in IR that you can use an IR pass filter and get excellent results (such as posted here), but not in the form of a color image.  The image you get looks red after debayering (which you still let Autostakkert do normally) and then convert to monochrome in processing. 


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#5 GeorgeInDallas

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Posted 26 June 2018 - 04:42 PM

While imaging last night I also recorded several RGB videos in addition to the IR video posted earlier. I recently modified my imaging train to reduce the magnification of the 2x Barlow to 1.67x. This allowed Jupiter to fit easily within a 640x480 ROI. In addition I selected the "Highspeed" option in Firecapture reducing the sampling from 12 bit to 10 bit. These changes allowed me to record frames at 271 fps. A total of 48k frames were captured in 180 sec. 20% of the frames were used to produce this image. The imaging configuration was the same as previously posted except that a Lum filter was utilized instead of the IR bandpass filter.

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  • 2018-06-26-0247_1-L-JupWavPS2.jpg

Edited by GeorgeInDallas, 26 June 2018 - 05:11 PM.

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#6 TareqPhoto

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Posted 27 June 2018 - 07:13 AM

Nice image!

 

So when you shoot with C14, do you use ROI 640x480 for planets such as Jupiter, Saturn and Mars?

 

When you shoot planets with your color camera, do you use RGB24 mode or RAW mode [either RAW8 or RAW16]? The problem is that i keep using Sharpcap and happy with it and i go those options in addition to Mono so i don't know which one is better for planets using the color camera, and i asked about ROI so i can learn how to get used with ROI with different scopes i will use, and C14 is a large one so maybe one day i have something similar so wanted to learn what ROI is good for planets with larger scopes with same camera of 3.75 pixel size.


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#7 GeorgeInDallas

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Posted 27 June 2018 - 10:21 AM

TareqPhoto, 

 

As indicated above, I used an 640x480 ROI for these images of Jupiter. I am not certain what ROI I will be using for images of Saturn or Mars. Basically I select the ROI based on the size of the planet on the detector and the accuracy of my polar alignment. Using a smaller ROI allows for faster Frame Rates. I utilize the auto guide and auto align features in FIrecapture to keep the target planet centered in the ROI. I do not spend much time with the polar alignment, so sometimes the planet drift is more than others. In those cases I may need a larger margin around the planet for the auto alignment to function without occasionally causing the planet image to be clipped by the ROI margin. If the ROI margin clips the planet image that causes difficulties in the Autostakkert alignment processing. I select the Firecapture option to display the planet in color but switch to RAW when recording image data. I don't know anything about the RAW8 or RAW16 option. 

 

As implied by the above comments, I highly recommend the Auto Align and Auto guide options in FIrecapture. Usually, using these capabilities will keep Jupiter centered (rock solid) in the center of a relative small ROI for hours. I use a CGE Pro mount which allows for auto guiding input. I only need to align the scope initially so that the planet drift is manageable, keep the camera oriented so that the DEC and RA axis correspond to the X and Y axis of the camera, and adjust the alignment parameters so that the software can issue appropriate guiding commands. 

 

Good Luck,

George


Edited by GeorgeInDallas, 27 June 2018 - 10:23 AM.


#8 TareqPhoto

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Posted 27 June 2018 - 10:44 AM

TareqPhoto, 

 

As indicated above, I used an 640x480 ROI for these images of Jupiter. I am not certain what ROI I will be using for images of Saturn or Mars. Basically I select the ROI based on the size of the planet on the detector and the accuracy of my polar alignment. Using a smaller ROI allows for faster Frame Rates. I utilize the auto guide and auto align features in FIrecapture to keep the target planet centered in the ROI. I do not spend much time with the polar alignment, so sometimes the planet drift is more than others. In those cases I may need a larger margin around the planet for the auto alignment to function without occasionally causing the planet image to be clipped by the ROI margin. If the ROI margin clips the planet image that causes difficulties in the Autostakkert alignment processing. I select the Firecapture option to display the planet in color but switch to RAW when recording image data. I don't know anything about the RAW8 or RAW16 option. 

 

As implied by the above comments, I highly recommend the Auto Align and Auto guide options in FIrecapture. Usually, using these capabilities will keep Jupiter centered (rock solid) in the center of a relative small ROI for hours. I use a CGE Pro mount which allows for auto guiding input. I only need to align the scope initially so that the planet drift is manageable, keep the camera oriented so that the DEC and RA axis correspond to the X and Y axis of the camera, and adjust the alignment parameters so that the software can issue appropriate guiding commands. 

 

Good Luck,

George

Cool, thank you very much!


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#9 roelb

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Posted 27 June 2018 - 06:13 PM

George,

 

How do you shortened your Televue 2x Barlow?

Thanks in advance.


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#10 Tom Glenn

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Posted 27 June 2018 - 06:47 PM

George,

 

How do you shortened your Televue 2x Barlow?

Thanks in advance.

I too am interested in the answer to this question.  I would love to be able to decrease it from 2x for use with my other camera.  The lens assembly easily separates from the aluminum spacer tube and the eyepiece holder, but the threading is different on the two components, and it is not straightforward to shorten the assembly in any way.  I initially thought it would be easy to shorten the assembly because it all comes apart easily, but it is not easy to do, and some reading online seems to indicate that Televue made the threading different on purpose, perhaps so that people could not replace the lens unit with a cheaper one and then resell the product as a Televue.  I read that someone with machine shop skills could easily cut the aluminum spacer tube and then rethread it so you have the option of a shorter spacing, but this is a lot of effort and requires either the tools and skills or the access to a shop.  


Edited by Tom Glenn, 27 June 2018 - 06:48 PM.

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#11 Kokatha man

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Posted 27 June 2018 - 09:20 PM

Both good images George, with plenty of detail! waytogo.gif The ASI224MC is indeed a versatile camera. smile.gif

 

Gentlemen, I made a couple of "inter-connectors" for the Televue 2x barlow's lens element - basically flat donuts about 1/4" thick ally with a T-thread on the outside to screw into ADC's or EFW's etc & an inner thread compatible with the T'vues male thread when unscrewed from the rest of the body: we can get down to about 1.25x without any deleterious effect btw - I'll post a couple of configurations using it when or if I ever get through processing the mountain of data that I have back-logged! lol.gif


Edited by Kokatha man, 27 June 2018 - 09:21 PM.

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#12 lukasik

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Posted 28 June 2018 - 10:33 AM

So smooth and detailed George - fine work!


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#13 GeorgeInDallas

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Posted 28 June 2018 - 04:49 PM

Roel,

 

Sorry for the delay in responding, I have been away from my computer most of the day.

 

I had the same experience as Tom. I assumed that it would be an easy task to unscrew the top of the Barlow and screw silver part into a camera nose adapter. Unfortunately, as Tom described, that did not work. I rummaged around in the many adapters and "pieces" that I have accumulated over the years and found an adapter that had a thread on one end that matched the ASI224MC thread (where the nose piece screws in) and the other side was a receptical for a 1.25" tube, that matched the silver piece of the Barlow. So I placed the silver part of the barlow into this device (not sure what it is called) and the other end into the ADC. This seems to be reasonably stable. I am sure that the device that Darryl has designed and manufactured is much more stable. I would be interested in buying Darryl's device if someone is going to manufacture them for sale. 

 

Hope this helps,

George


Edited by GeorgeInDallas, 28 June 2018 - 04:53 PM.

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#14 GilATM

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Posted 28 June 2018 - 06:20 PM

 In addition I selected the "Highspeed" option in Firecapture reducing the sampling from 12 bit to 10 bit. 

I can't for the life of me find this setting.   Perhaps it is not available when capturing raw???

 

Thanks,

Gil



#15 Tom Glenn

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Posted 28 June 2018 - 06:40 PM

High speed is available under the "More" tab near the top left side of Firecapture.  Most of the time I find it unnecessary to use this mode when using small ROIs, because I am not having trouble capturing at full potential frame rates without it.  However, I am not going below 5ms exposures for Jupiter, so this is only a maximum of 200 fps.  If you are going below 5ms exposures you probably will have to use high speed to achieve full frame rate. I would just compare your actual frame rate to the maximum theoretical frame rate with high speed unchecked, and if they don't match up, try checking the box then. 


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#16 Ed D

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Posted 28 June 2018 - 07:47 PM

George, that is a really sharp and detailed image in IR.  I believe you captured the Oval BA and its wake.  waytogo.gif

 

I recently got into IR imaging and I'm enjoying it a lot.  My camera is an ASI290MC that I use with SharpCap.  I use the MONO-8 setting when imaging in IR, which I find easier for me compared to using RGB24 and then converting to B&W in a photo program.

 

Ed D



#17 Joball23

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Posted 03 April 2021 - 12:01 AM

friends, I have a big doubt and I beg your pardon if you read ignorant ,, .... several friends tell me that the proplanet 742 filter is only for use in Monochrome cameras .... that if I use it in a color camera it would hurt result is that true? ...... or if I can use it ... my configuration would be:

camera ASI071 MC
celestron 9.25
barlow 2.5
zwo ADC
"'filter pro planet 742"

I want to take video of jupiter, saturn, mars ... color images



#18 TareqPhoto

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Posted 03 April 2021 - 05:37 AM

friends, I have a big doubt and I beg your pardon if you read ignorant ,, .... several friends tell me that the proplanet 742 filter is only for use in Monochrome cameras .... that if I use it in a color camera it would hurt result is that true? ...... or if I can use it ... my configuration would be:

camera ASI071 MC
celestron 9.25
barlow 2.5
zwo ADC
"'filter pro planet 742"

I want to take video of jupiter, saturn, mars ... color images

It will be in black and white because it is almost out of colors spectrum.



#19 CPellier

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Posted 03 April 2021 - 11:33 AM

Yes, you can use it with a color camera, but it will only be an IR image... so no colors ! As says Tareq, although the tint will be slightly pinkish, but it will not be a real color.

Apart of this this is a recommanded filter for current's good CMOS color cameras.



#20 dcaponeii

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Posted 05 April 2021 - 08:18 AM

Great images George.



#21 GeorgeInDallas

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Posted 05 April 2021 - 11:15 AM

Just so everyone is aware, these photos were made in June of 2018. This thread has lay dormant for almost three years until Joball23 asked a question about using IR filters with color cameras. There is no problem with this scenario, but I don't want anyone to get the impression that I made these images recently.  I look forward to the coming planet imaging season. I have not taken any planet images thus far this year. 

 

George


Edited by GeorgeInDallas, 05 April 2021 - 11:21 AM.

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#22 TareqPhoto

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Posted 05 April 2021 - 11:27 AM

Just so everyone is aware, these photos were made in June of 2018. This thread has lay dormant for almost three years until Joball23 asked a question about using IR filters with color cameras. There is no problem with this scenario, but I don't want anyone to get the impression that I made these images recently.  I look forward to the coming planet imaging season. I have not taken any planet images thus far this year. 

 

George

It is not about when this image has been taken, it is about a result of that filter with this camera, and that will never change by the time anyway, be it yesterday or 10 years ago, the image got enough comments already.



#23 kevinbreen

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Posted 10 April 2021 - 06:57 AM

Fantastic images, George. I almost didn't see this thread at all - I'll have to be more observant



#24 Quaternion

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Posted 13 April 2021 - 11:19 AM

While imaging last night I also recorded several RGB videos in addition to the IR video posted earlier. I recently modified my imaging train to reduce the magnification of the 2x Barlow to 1.67x. This allowed Jupiter to fit easily within a 640x480 ROI. In addition I selected the "Highspeed" option in Firecapture reducing the sampling from 12 bit to 10 bit. These changes allowed me to record frames at 271 fps. A total of 48k frames were captured in 180 sec. 20% of the frames were used to produce this image. The imaging configuration was the same as previously posted except that a Lum filter was utilized instead of the IR bandpass filter.

I am going down the same path of reducing barlow/powermate magnification to get a lower f-number, increase SNR, and increase my frame rate to get a sharper image. Your results are very encouraging.  Thanks.



#25 moonwatching ferret

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Posted 13 April 2021 - 07:21 PM

Real nice images waytogo.gif waytogo.gif waytogo.gif waytogo.gif  To bad I am way to busy to image at the moment . That and my landlord has junk all over the driveway lol so do I to much junk to drag out the big gun I will wait another month till jupiter gets a bit bigger and higher. but you got some nice details looks like oval ba is catching up to the SWGRS  again




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