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Update on my SW ED150 order...

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#476 25585

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Posted 09 August 2018 - 07:31 AM

A few years back I took delivery of a TAL Apolar 125. It was packed in TAL's custom hardwood case and came direct to me from Siberia. When it arrived one of the internal lens elements was broken and bits of glass were rattling around in the tube. The objective had a 15mm scratch across the centre as well.

 

A wooden box does not guarantee safe delivery undecided.gif

 

My Tak FC100DL was the best packed scope I've ever had delivered. The 3 sturdy cardboard boxes plus foam separators and foam pellets filling the recess between each box seemed to do the trick smile.gif

My Tak FC100DL ditto John. 

 

I have bought 4 SW refractors, all the Equinox models. No damage apart from the 120 model where the lower case at lens end had been creased outward. Thankfully the scope was OK, maybe having the Equinox OTA which is thicker and heavier saved it. But the 100, 80 and 66 were all fine.

 

Are the aluminium-look ED PRO cases actually aluminium covered, of just coloured plastic?

 

SW can do stronger cases, look at what Esprit are shipped in. They seem stronger anyway. It appears that utilitarian and deluxe is for all in the price, but also says to me SW consider that Esprit buyers are fussier, are buying a particular model purposefully, rather than just up-sizing for aperture alone, ED requirement being a better-than achromat choice, but still not opting for best i.e in the triplet league. 

 

CN readers, there is a Stargazers Lounge thread with similar tales of woe, https://stargazerslo...is-here/?page=9 , but also one with an OK 150, 

https://stargazerslo...s-in-yorkshire/  though not so extensive.

 

Takahashi make a collimation "deep throat" telescope for long FL scopes https://www.astronom...ctor_p5048.aspx would that instrument be the perfect tester for large refractors such as the ED150? If so maybe more people should use them.

 

To Jim & others, the only way to educate manufacturers etc is to return the entire damaged goods, for a full refund. Accepting a repair/replace-a-part option, even if that is still coveted by warranty, and you are skilled at such, does not send a strong enough message back. Total fitness for immediate use is what the customer paid for, and you should get nothing less.  


Edited by 25585, 09 August 2018 - 07:36 AM.

 

#477 PETER DREW

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Posted 09 August 2018 - 07:53 AM

I don't know how some people got this scope and i was locked out of buying one.


Perhaps they were concerned that it might not do 100x/inch.
 

#478 John Huntley

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Posted 09 August 2018 - 08:24 AM


 

Are the aluminium-look ED PRO cases actually aluminium covered, of just coloured plastic?

 

@25585: Not plastic. They are a thin aluminum skin over a few mm of wood and lined with foam. Here are pics:

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#479 roadi

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Posted 09 August 2018 - 08:46 AM

 

 

To Jim & others, the only way to educate manufacturers etc is to return the entire damaged goods, for a full refund. Accepting a repair/replace-a-part option, even if that is still coveted by warranty, and you are skilled at such, does not send a strong enough message back. Total fitness for immediate use is what the customer paid for, and you should get nothing less.  

Agree waytogo.gif


 

#480 MGD

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Posted 09 August 2018 - 08:56 AM

Chas I'm sure there's no conspiracy locking you out of ownership of this scope. The reality is you live on the opposite side of the country from where the scopes currently are. If you lived near the store I'm sure you could have picked yours up also. Just relax and be patient and soon enough you'll have your own SW150 ED to sell.

Mike


 

#481 25585

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Posted 09 August 2018 - 09:56 AM

Out of curiosity, if anyone from Skywatcher is following this thread, what is the specification for the focuser.  Specifically how long should the drawtube be?  How much travel should the focuser draw tube have?  I am trying to figure out whether either of the mothballed Feathertouch focusers I have in the garage will suffice.  I'd like to do that prior to committing to buying an adapter.

 

Thanks!

 

- Jim

What are the differences between the DX focuser and the standard one? Is the former easily interchangeable, and can they be bought independently?  That might be an option Jim, if you can get a deal. 


 

#482 daquad

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Posted 09 August 2018 - 10:28 AM

 

 

Are the aluminium-look ED PRO cases actually aluminium covered, of just coloured plastic?

 

@25585: Not plastic. They are a thin aluminum skin over a few mm of wood and lined with foam. Here are pics:

 

Compare the SW case with the APM case.  Especially note the difference in the corner reinforcements.  The build quality of the APM scope case is like that of Scopeguard.

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#483 Jeff B

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Posted 09 August 2018 - 11:02 AM

I don't know how some people got this scope and i was locked out of buying one.

They just don't like you Chas.  wink.gif


 

#484 starman876

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Posted 09 August 2018 - 11:25 AM

Perhaps they were concerned that it might not do 100x/inch.

Perhaps they are smarter than we realizedsmirk.gif


 

#485 mogur

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Posted 09 August 2018 - 11:26 AM

I don't know how some people got this scope and i was locked out of buying one.

You just placed your order relatively recently. Some folks had their orders in as soon as they heard about the scope being made. First come, first served.


 

#486 starman876

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Posted 09 August 2018 - 11:27 AM

Compare the SW case with the APM case.  Especially note the difference in the corner reinforcements.  The build quality of the APM scope case is like that of Scopeguard.

Looks like a case you can go on the road with.  The SW case looks like a dust cover.


 

#487 25585

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Posted 09 August 2018 - 11:30 AM

Jimmy, the artifacts visually seen in the first link you referenced in posting #331 is probably coma, around 1/4 to 1/6 wave.  Again, I see no mention of astigmatism or its visual symptoms.

 

Sure seems that the packaging is letting down a good scope.

 

Regarding the comments about how such a poor shipping container could happen at a company with a lot of experience like SW, well, there is always a cost pressure and sometimes one side of a business does not communicate very well with another side of a business (really?  No way!).  But that's not an excuse, just an observation I've seen myself in business.  The good, well run businesses take care of the issue and learn not to do it again.  But the zeal to ship product is there, and as we used to say sometimes, "There's never enough time or money to do it right the first time, but there's always enough time and money to do it right the second time."   Or, put a spin on it.  we used to say "ship and fix later".  That got spun 30 years later to "Launch and Learn." grin.gif

 

Jeff

OK. Let's imagine there is a Celestron version as well. Would that be packed so poorly? Celestron is Synta's upmarket brand, better known, with a good reputation to maintain.

 

Would a Celestron version have better lens mounting, focuser, retractable lens hood even? Cost more definitely, but it's interesting to contemplate on a "connoisseur" version.     


 

#488 starman876

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Posted 09 August 2018 - 11:31 AM

I don't know how some people got this scope and i was locked out of buying one.

It has to be a conspiracy of some kind Chas.  I understand your concern.


 

#489 Daniel Mounsey

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Posted 09 August 2018 - 11:37 AM

It has to be a conspiracy of some kind Chas.  I understand your concern.

funnypost.gif  And people wonder where all the drama comes from?


 

#490 Jeff B

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Posted 09 August 2018 - 11:40 AM

It has to be a conspiracy of some kind Chas.  I understand your concern.

I just got off the phone with Jimmy Hoffa and Amelia Earhart and they confirmed that's indeed the case.


 

#491 daveCollins

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Posted 09 August 2018 - 11:54 AM

I just got off the phone with Jimmy Hoffa and Amelia Earhart and they confirmed that's indeed the case.

Jeff, Jimmy isn't alive (Declared dead in absentia). As I was saying earlier, our lives are dominated by illusions, but I think this is going off the deep end.


 

#492 Crow Haven

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Posted 09 August 2018 - 12:09 PM

OK. Let's imagine there is a Celestron version as well. Would that be packed so poorly? Celestron is Synta's upmarket brand, better known, with a good reputation to maintain.

 

Would a Celestron version have better lens mounting, focuser, retractable lens hood even? Cost more definitely, but it's interesting to contemplate on a "connoisseur" version.     

I hope Celestron's packaging of their 6" f/8 achro refractor has improved since I acquired mine years ago!  As an example of their packaging then of such a large refractor, mine arrived almost falling out of its torn and crumpled box in which other empty small boxes were used to slightly secure and protect the ota mostly on the ends.  There was nothing but some cardboard around other parts.  From the box damage (ends being smashed in and split) my guess is this box fell mainly on its ends in handling.  Somehow the other empty boxes cushioned the fall and the scope survived intact.  The heavy metal objective cell held the lens doublet without damage.  All was well, but the UPS guy was very apologetic and obviously feared the worst.  He helped in the unboxing -- what there was of it -- and I documented the situation in case the scope was toast.

 

My opinion is that there isn't enough padding for the ends of these scopes either in their cases or in the boxing over them.  My Tak FS102 was triple boxed with extra padding around each box and that helps a lot.  My EON120 arrived with no damage to its case or box...you can never be sure what will happen in shipping.


 

#493 25585

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Posted 09 August 2018 - 12:30 PM

Perhaps a solution is buying a suitably protective case &/or bag from or sending it to a store to put a (damage checked) scope in before shipping it out. That would hopefully cut out straight from warehouse shipping. Send the hen a shell for its chick.

 

A lot of the packing issues also apply to sending reflector mirrors for re-silvering.


 

#494 hfjacinto

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Posted 09 August 2018 - 12:37 PM

20 pages and counting :)


 

#495 Jeff B

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Posted 09 August 2018 - 12:51 PM

Jeff, Jimmy isn't alive (Declared dead in absentia). As I was saying earlier, our lives are dominated by illusions, but I think this is going off the deep end.

As we are dominated by illusions, how deep is deep?

 

Ok, I'l  stop now.  For a while.  Or am I deluding myself.

 

I'm so confused.

 

But I do know that I'll be getting one of these 150 EDs in the future.

 

Before Chas does of course..


 

#496 austin.grant

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Posted 09 August 2018 - 01:05 PM

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaand here comes the lock! 


 

#497 starman876

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Posted 09 August 2018 - 01:18 PM

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaand here comes the lock! 

always when we start having fun.  Seriously, It appears as though this is a fine scope for the money.   Hmmm, let's say a fine lens for the money.   we have seen a few reviews and they have not scared people away.  Honestly, it is no 10,000 dollar APO, but for a bit over 2000 dollars. It is not a scope I would turn away because it was not a Tak or AP.   It is a really good $2000 scope.  You noticed how easily I said $2000.   Do not say it too many times.  It might bring you to your senses. You are spending $2000 on a telescope.  Do you have $2000 you can really spare for a telescope.  OK, if you do than fine,  I would buy one.  I see it as a good deal compared to other telescopes in this same aperture range.   


 

#498 hfjacinto

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Posted 09 August 2018 - 01:46 PM

WOOO HOO!! Tolga has my 152 smile.gif Looks well wrapped and boxed.

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#499 Bomber Bob

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Posted 09 August 2018 - 01:48 PM

let's say a fine lens for the money

 

In that respect, it reminds me of the uber-uber-economical ES FirstLight AR102 EQ that I bought & reviewed when it came out.  For $300 (free shipping!) you got a 4" F10 achromatic refractor, plus equatorial mount, plus metal tripod, plus 1.25" mirror diagonal, & 25mm Plossl.  Yes, the mirror diagonal was junk; and, yes, the tripod was meant for a 50mm alt/az, not a 4" EQ (IOW:  Shaky!!).  And yes, lots of plastic "hardware" on the OTA.  But, the lens was surprisingly good.


 

#500 Erik Bakker

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Posted 09 August 2018 - 03:11 PM

Time for a new thread about your APM ED152?


 


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