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Update on my SW ED150 order...

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#526 roadi

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Posted 10 August 2018 - 01:48 PM

APM had the same type of issues when they released the 152. They are still plagued by the fact that some people haven't noticed yet that the problem has been solved a long time ago. This is a new release, and I hope that SW will handle the issues as well as APM did. Alas, they probably won't be forgotten any sooner.

 

Cheers, Emil

I fully agree with all you say, but I don't believe the issue with collimation/tilt is new to them! 


Edited by roadi, 10 August 2018 - 01:49 PM.

 

#527 25585

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Posted 10 August 2018 - 02:19 PM

APM had the same type of issues when they released the 152. They are still plagued by the fact that some people haven't noticed yet that the problem has been solved a long time ago. This is a new release, and I hope that SW will handle the issues as well as APM did. Alas, they probably won't be forgotten any sooner.

 

Cheers, Emil

Sorry Emil, but new releases should not be imperfect/testing the water at customers expense. The SGL tester was both fortunate and unfortunate. New is no excuse at all. If a manufacturer is cynical enough to see who or how many punters pay, swallow, and do not spit back an imperfect product completely, they must regard us all as suckers by default.

 

I am happy with the 4 SW refractors & 1 Newtonian I own. May get a 180 Mak-cass now. I hope SW will sort out the 150 with a "Mark 2" version. 


 

#528 Jon_Doh

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Posted 10 August 2018 - 02:23 PM

You must have the only Yugo still running on the planet. 

 

Chip

It runs real well as long as I'm pushing it laugh.gif

 

But it sure beats the Lada I used to have.


 

#529 hfjacinto

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Posted 10 August 2018 - 03:13 PM

Jim

Can Ron at moonlite help you?
 

#530 John Huntley

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Posted 10 August 2018 - 03:20 PM

 

 

Yep, I've been looking at pics of "donor candidates".  grin.gif

 

However this one looks to be a bit different.  On many it looks like three screws attach the white part of the focuser to an adapter.  Here though it looks like the white part of the focuser either threads into or is glued into the adapter, and the adapter, in turn, is held into the OTA tail plate with three grub screws.  It may be trickier to do a swap as a result....

 

Jim, the ED150 stock focuser (the white part) is threaded into the black adapter. The 3rd party focuser retailers will need to fabricate a flange to replace the 1st section of the black part to allow their focuser units to be fitted to the scope. It the scope becomes popular then I'm sure that will happen quite quickly smile.gif


Edited by John Huntley, 10 August 2018 - 03:23 PM.

 

#531 HARRISON SCOPES

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Posted 10 August 2018 - 03:50 PM

I think the only unforseen issue was the shipping of such a big refractor and case in a very long box weighing 26kg via couriers, who are often a one man team struggling with boxes of this size. I would not consider that letting customers receive a second rate product or an indication of needing any revision to the design. I am confident synta would have tested these to a very high level. What happened after they left the factory was a real shame.

Please remember as always the numbers of unfortunate issues are far outweighed by the silent majority of happy customers who have no desire or motivation to post on internet forums.

Yes there is a lesson to be learnt about packaging and shipping and that is in hand as we know, beyond that there is no reason to assume skywatcher or their dealers (me included) would leave customers with damaged goods.

Edited by HARRISON SCOPES, 10 August 2018 - 04:06 PM.

 

#532 KevH

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Posted 10 August 2018 - 03:52 PM

Jim,

Any chance you verified the scope is a full 150mm. Just curious as I know the early 120s were stopped down.

Edited by KevH, 10 August 2018 - 04:01 PM.

 

#533 YAOG

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Posted 10 August 2018 - 04:10 PM

Hmm,

 

Seems like the small savings up front have been replaced with a series of delays and possibly some additional expense that might have been avoided by going through normal USA channels. Obviously SW USA would not have left you hanging like this, heck it sounds like they are bending over backward to help resolve a problem that was created by an off shore purchase. There's a lesson to be learned here if anyone is paying attention. 

 

Chip


 

#534 John Huntley

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Posted 10 August 2018 - 04:28 PM

I think the only unforseen issue was the shipping of such a big refractor and case in a very long box weighing 26kg via couriers, who are often a one man team struggling with boxes of this size. I would not consider that letting customers receive a second rate product or an indication of needing any revision to the design. I am confident synta would have tested these to a very high level. What happened after they left the factory was a real shame.

Please remember as always the numbers of unfortunate issues are far outweighed by the silent majority of happy customers who have no desire or motivation to post on internet forums.

Yes there is a lesson to be learnt about packaging and shipping and that is in hand as we know, beyond that there is no reason to assume skywatcher or their dealers (me included) would leave customers with damaged goods.

Ed - my second ED150 (not from yourself I hasten to add) was delivered with a skewed / tilted objective lens retaining ring which still had the unbroken factory cement intact in the two places that it is applied around the ring to deter tampering. The ring appears to have been fitted crossing the threads in the objective cell. The objective itself, or at least one element, is tilted as well and this shows clearly in the cheshire eyepiece test. The star test of this unit is one of the worst I've seen from any refractor.

 

The packaging does need to be improved to prevent rough handling affecting collimation and damage to the case and scope and my 2nd unit's packaging was better than the 1st one. I believe that the issues in my 1st paragraph above were there when the scope left the factory though.

 

I'm sure you and no other reputable dealer would leave anyone with damaged or poor performing goods. I'm hoping to be sent a 3rd scope in due course smile.gif

 

I realise that I have experienced just 2 examples of this scope and there are good ones out there. I'd like one myself smile.gif


Edited by John Huntley, 10 August 2018 - 04:30 PM.

 

#535 HARRISON SCOPES

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Posted 10 August 2018 - 04:47 PM

John I have seen those rings shift from transit damage a good few times, the spots of glue would still be visible. I am not saying you are wrong but they slip in their threads very easily being so thin. A bit like a slide hammer effect. Looking at skywatchers history of making optics for a very long time now I seriously doubt any left the factory with defects. Especially given the fact these were anticipated eagerly and publicly, what company in their right mind would blow it carelessly.

To assemble the cell retaining ring cross threaded is a real schoolboy error and in my honest opinion unlikely for an experienced company aware of the hype.

Edited by HARRISON SCOPES, 10 August 2018 - 04:53 PM.

 

#536 hfjacinto

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Posted 10 August 2018 - 04:53 PM

I skipped on the Sky watcher due to the reports of damage. I expect the optics to be awesome but the thin case and poorly packed scope gave me pause. I also was going to get the DX model and those won’t be available for at least a month.
 

#537 hfjacinto

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Posted 10 August 2018 - 04:55 PM

Hmm,

Seems like the small savings up front have been replaced with a series of delays and possibly some additional expense that might have been avoided by going through normal USA channels. Obviously SW USA would not have left you hanging like this, heck it sounds like they are bending over backward to help resolve a problem that was created by an off shore purchase. There's a lesson to be learned here if anyone is paying attention.

Chip


Chip what is the lesson? From reading Jim’s post he got stuff damaged from OPT which is in the same state as him? My scope from Germany came in damage free...
 

#538 Crow Haven

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Posted 10 August 2018 - 05:14 PM

It seems that old Synta C6R focusers are around when you don't care about them...now they seem scarce. 

You need not only the focuser and its adapter but the entire assembly which includes the collar that bolts directly onto the tube itself.  Seems both GSO and Moonlight focuser adapters require you to have saved the collar from the tube, then their adapters bolt onto that part.  Probably holes could be drilled in the collar to make the collar fit on the SW150.


 

#539 John Huntley

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Posted 10 August 2018 - 05:37 PM

John I have seen those rings shift from transit damage a good few times, the spots of glue would still be visible. I am not saying you are wrong but they slip in their threads very easily being so thin. A bit like a slide hammer effect. Looking at skywatchers history of making optics for a very long time now I seriously doubt any left the factory with defects. Especially given the fact these were anticipated eagerly and publicly, what company in their right mind would blow it carelessly.

To assemble the cell retaining ring cross threaded is a real schoolboy error and in my honest opinion unlikely for an experienced company aware of the hype.

I'm as surprised as you are Ed. Having had 2 examples to compare, the difference in the objective cell retaining ring fitment is rather startling and obvious.

 

Fingers crossed that the 3rd one will be a good one ! smile.gif


 

#540 skyward_eyes

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Posted 10 August 2018 - 05:38 PM

Chip what is the lesson? From reading Jim’s post he got stuff damaged from OPT which is in the same state as him? My scope from Germany came in damage free...

I am pretty sure your scope came strapped to a pallet when it arrived to the US as all of ours do. 


 

#541 CHASLX200

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Posted 10 August 2018 - 05:49 PM

Hello amigos.

 

I am in focuser "negotiations".  grin.gif

 

Though I did not buy here in the US, Kevin has offered a replacement focuser here in the US when he gets a shipment in.  I've insisted that I should pay for it if he provides a focuser - it's not SW US's problem.  We'll see what he says.

 

On the TS front, they have offered me a 3" sharpstar focuser (TS branded) with a custom made TS adpater at a discount, and are working with Skywatcher Europe to see about replacing my damaged focuser with a Skywatcher unit.  Though they have also asked for pictures of the damage.  Hard to take as the damage is internal due to an impact of the fine focus knob on the focuser against the lid of the case with enough force to crack he thin plywood and tear the aluminum skin on the case above the focuser position inside.

 

Key for me is I WANT A WORKING FOCUSER ASAP so I can use the bloody new scope for the bloody purpose I bought it for!  The adapter is a 3-5 week affair, so the TS offer while nice is not immediate.  I don't know when Kevin will get spare focusers in stock in the US.  I don't know if Skywtacher Europe already has spares in stock.  All I know is that my focuser was Borked in shipment making the scope unsuitable for higher magnification use.  4.gif

 

I'm half tempted to buy a used Evostar swap the focusers and resell it with full disclosure.  That might be the fastest path to resolution while the dealer and distributor hash it out. 

 

Also does anyone know of any Skywtacher Crayford focuser disassembly pictures online?  Pollux Chung did a great series on disassembly of the GSO Crayford many years ago.  I am tempted to pull mine and tinker inside (though I suspect my problem is damaged/divoted bearing races - click, click, click).  It would be nice to know in advance what I'll be looking at if I do.

 

- Jim 

I would demand my money back flat out and not a pay a dime.


 

#542 HARRISON SCOPES

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Posted 10 August 2018 - 05:58 PM

I am pretty sure your scope came strapped to a pallet when it arrived to the US as all of ours do.


It seems they are too long for pallets here. Could explain a lot.

Edited by HARRISON SCOPES, 10 August 2018 - 05:59 PM.

 

#543 mogur

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Posted 10 August 2018 - 06:50 PM

John I have seen those rings shift from transit damage a good few times, the spots of glue would still be visible. I am not saying you are wrong but they slip in their threads very easily being so thin. A bit like a slide hammer effect. Looking at skywatchers history of making optics for a very long time now I seriously doubt any left the factory with defects. Especially given the fact these were anticipated eagerly and publicly, what company in their right mind would blow it carelessly.

To assemble the cell retaining ring cross threaded is a real schoolboy error and in my honest opinion unlikely for an experienced company aware of the hype.

...but a company consists of many individuals. some of which may not be as interested as the owners in providing a well built product. Of course, these individuals should be "weeded out".


 

#544 Daniel Mounsey

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Posted 10 August 2018 - 06:54 PM

Chip what is the lesson? From reading Jim’s post he got stuff damaged from OPT which is in the same state as him? My scope from Germany came in damage free...

 

Things can happen in shipping sometimes. I highly doubt it was OPT’s intent to ship damaged packages. Even we have shipped packages where damage has happened. It’s seldom the issue, but let’s be honest, it can happen to anyone. There’s always a hater for each company. Don’t do FedEx, don’t do UPS, don’t do DHL, don’t do USPS. Every company has haters and likers and every company has the same issues. No company is without fault. The simple matter is had Jim dealt with a local dealer, the transit time would have been just a two days and less travel time and not much more money in the grand scheme of things. There would have been less places for the package to travel through and increase the risk of being mishandled. This is why Takahashi will only warranty optical tubes shipped 2nd Day and now 3 Day. Also, people think it’s realy easy to just ship a package back overseas like it’s no problem and insist on a refund but think about it. Think rattionally about this. Jim’s no fool and did a smart thing in my opinion and I would have done the same. I’m amazed that people who seem to be so obsessive about optics don’t consider alternative options as Jim did.

 

Certainly mechanics are also paramount as well as optics BUT in Jim's situation the case and focuser were mainly damaged. What’s the most precious part of his refractor? The optics are and the optics are what we all want to know more about, myself included. Heck, I wouldn’t even want to use the case anyway, it’s huge. I'd purchase a separate soft case. Also, a focuser can easily be replaced and since most people are obsessed with higher quality focusers, they will probably change it regardless. Think about your options. If Jim sent back that scope, he would be blowing a perfectly good opportunity to evaluate the sample he has. If he determines that it's whacked out, then fine, but what if he has an exceptionally good sample? After giving this more thought, I'd keep it once I've determined it's good and work out a deal with TS to compensate Jim in other ways, like funding him a new focuser and soft case or something. People should still consider working with the dealers. It's not like they're getting rich off this stuff and sometimes better options can come about from matters like this. It does't always have to end up as a horror story.

 

The other option is both parties could just say shine it and try getting the insurance money assuming it was insured properly and even then it still may be a risk because the insurance company may argue. Also, I'd like to mention something. Mike got an Evostar because we had a shipment of a few and he observes with us. Since he's only 30 minutes from the store, we made a deal that he would never ship the OTA in the original case were he ever to sell it. We will provide him with the proper packaging once its available. This would only create possible problems for himself an another potential buyer were he to sell it later down the line. You guys gotta understand something here. SkyWatcher USA represents the US. There's Canada, Europe etc. SkyWatcher USA has no say if companies overseas wish to continue shipping out these 150ED Evostar's in their current package configuration. We are all still awaiting a time frame but I really do think some people are barking up the wrong tree here. At least SW USA said hey, wait! we need to evaluate how these refractors are being packaged to customers here in the US before we allow shipments to begin with customers here in the US. 

 

To the best of my knowledge, the US is grounded as far as shipments on the 150ED Evostar's and this is the smart thing to do and I think people should be thankful. Also, to the best of my knowledge, Kevin Legore is the only one trying to make sure this launch is as smooth as possible here in the US. Whatever these guys overseas insist on doing is on them. None of us want any headaches and certainly not you guys. Some people think there's a conspiricy going on here. Our company can sell SCT's and small refractors all week long. The Evostar is just a tiny part of our sales. It's not like there's some big sales profits being made here. Heck you'd laugh if you knew how pathetic dealer margins actually are. Then people want service and discounts. People ask me countless questions for advice and on top of it, want discounts. Think about that for a moment. Advice can save you a lot of money in the long term but few people express appreciation for it. I have a good number of great friends here on CN but there's still a bunch of others who demand the best deals and want top notch service as well. 

 

I realize the planetary season is moving by and I do feel bad for Chas, but I will say this. Chas is really a great guy! We spoke on the phone he's hysterical. We do have some really great friends here on CN! smile.gif


Edited by Daniel Mounsey, 10 August 2018 - 07:09 PM.

 

#545 hfjacinto

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Posted 10 August 2018 - 07:01 PM

Daniel great post!!! Like I stated before and in a few posts, the decision was between the DX and the APM, your review almost almost almost clinched the deal but in the end the sliding dew shield and better case pushed me to the APM. The only thing I state is that the APM was much better (I mean really really better) packed than the DX. The shipping issue which I know will be fixed is one reason that one should always consider the issues with being an early adopter.
 

#546 CHASLX200

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Posted 10 August 2018 - 07:10 PM

Things can happen in shipping sometimes. I highly doubt it was OPT’s intent to ship damaged packages. Even we have shipped packages where damage has happened. It’s seldom the issue, but let’s be honest, it can happen to anyone. There’s always a hater for each company. Don’t do FedEx, don’t do UPS, don’t do DHL, don’t do USPS. Every company has haters and likers and every company has the same issues. No company is without fault. The simple matter is had Jim dealt with a local dealer, the transit time would have been just a two days and less travel time and not much more money in the grand scheme of things. There would have been less places for the package to travel through and increase the risk of being mishandled. This is why Takahashi will only warranty optical tubes shipped 2nd Day and now 3 Day. Also, people think it’s realy easy to just ship a package back overseas like it’s no problem and insist on a refund but think about it. Think rattionally about this. Jim’s no fool and did a smart thing in my opinion and I would have done the same. I’m amazed that people who seem to be so obsessive about optics don’t consider alternative options as Jim did.

 

Certainly mechanics are also paramount as well as optics BUT in Jim's situation the case and focuser were mainly damaged. What’s the most precious part of his refractor? The optics are and the optics are what we all want to know more about, myself included. Heck, I wouldn’t even want to use the case anyway, it’s huge. I'd purchase a separate soft case. Also, a focuser can easily be replaced and since most people are obsessed with higher quality focusers, they will probably change it regardless. Think about your options. If Jim sent back that scope, he would be blowing a perfectly good opportunity to evaluate the sample he has. If he determines that it's whacked out, then fine, but what if he has an exceptionally good sample? After giving this more thought, I'd keep it once I've determined it's good and work out a deal with TS to compensate Jim in other ways, like funding him a new focuser and soft case or something. People should still consider working with the dealers. It's not like they're getting rich off this stuff and sometimes better options can come about from matters like this. It does't always have to end up as a horror story.

 

The other option is both parties could just say shine it and try getting the insurance money assuming it was insured properly and even then it still may be a risk because the insurance company may argue. Also, I'd like to mention something. Mike got an Evostar because we had a shipment of a few and he observes with us. Since he's only 30 minutes from the store, we made a deal that he would never ship the OTA in the original case were he ever to sell it. We will provide him with the proper packaging once its available. This would only create possible problems for himself an another potential buyer were he to sell it later down the line. You guys gotta understand something here. SkyWatcher USA represents the US. There's Canada, Europe etc. SkyWatcher USA has no say if companies overseas wish to continue shipping out these 150ED Evostar's in their current package configuration. We are all still awaiting a time frame but I really do think some people are barking up the wrong tree here. At least SW USA said hey, wait! we need to evaluate how these refractors are being packaged to customers here in the US before we allow shipments to begin with customers here in the US. 

 

To the best of my knowledge, the US is grounded as far as shipments on the 150ED Evostar's and this is the smart thing to do and I think people should be thankful. Also, to the best of my knowledge, Kevin Legore is the only one trying to make sure this launch is as smooth as possible here in the US. Whatever these guys overseas insist on doing is on them. None of us want any headaches and certainly not you guys. Some people think there's a conspiricy going on here. Our company can sell SCT's and small refractors all week long. The Evostar is just a tiny part of our sales. It's not like there's some big sales profits being made here. Heck you'd laugh if you knew how pathetic dealer margins actually are. Then people want service and discounts. People ask me countless questions for advice and on top of it, want discounts. Think about that for a moment. Advice can save you a lot of money in the long term but few people express appreciation for it. I have a good number of great friends here on CN but there's still a bunch of others who demand the best deals and want top notch service as well. 

 

I realize the planetary season is moving by and I do feel bad for Chas, but I will say this. Chas is really a great guy! We spoke on the phone he's hysterical. We do have some really great friends here on CN! smile.gif

Just hand pick the best SW150ED and in Jan i will Jump and be ready for Jupiter coming up before sunrise.  


 

#547 daquad

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Posted 10 August 2018 - 07:11 PM

John I have seen those rings shift from transit damage a good few times, the spots of glue would still be visible. I am not saying you are wrong but they slip in their threads very easily being so thin. A bit like a slide hammer effect. Looking at skywatchers history of making optics for a very long time now I seriously doubt any left the factory with defects. Especially given the fact these were anticipated eagerly and publicly, what company in their right mind would blow it carelessly.

To assemble the cell retaining ring cross threaded is a real schoolboy error and in my honest opinion unlikely for an experienced company aware of the hype.

Seriously?  You've seen the retaining rings shift during transit a few good times?  The threads are thin in any retaining ring and I've never had a scope delivered with damaged retaining rings.  That ring was cross-threaded at the factory, IMHO.


 

#548 Daniel Mounsey

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Posted 10 August 2018 - 07:18 PM

Daniel great post!!! Like I stated before and in a few posts, the decision was between the DX and the APM, your review almost almost almost clinched the deal but in the end the sliding dew shield and better case pushed me to the APM. The only thing I state is that the APM was much better (I mean really really better) packed than the DX. The shipping issue which I know will be fixed is one reason that one should always consider the issues with being an early adopter.

 

I'll tell you what. I'd love to see an APM again to see how Markus has had his people make improvements. Markus knows me well, we've worked together for many years. We've had dinners and talk at NEAF each year. Honestly, I just want others to enjoy the nice views refractors have to offer and get them at an affordable price. If that means going with an APM scope, that's fine. I'd like to hear more how the views are with the solar system and stars. I've been out observing several times just this month alone, and the planet season is great and very exciting! A few days ago I observed several amazing carbon stars too. 


 

#549 Daniel Mounsey

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Posted 10 August 2018 - 07:20 PM

Just hand pick the best SW150ED and in Jan i will Jump and be ready for Jupiter coming up before sunrise.  

 

Hey wait a minute Chas! How do we all know you won't change your mind!grin.gif lol.gif waytogo.gif


 

#550 CHASLX200

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Posted 10 August 2018 - 07:34 PM

Hey wait a minute Chas! How do we all know you won't change your mind!grin.gif lol.gif waytogo.gif

 

I will get a SW150 one way or another brother.


 


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