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Mars & its changing features...& an "uber-ing"..! ;)

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#1 Kokatha man

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Posted 10 August 2018 - 01:39 AM

Edit: My reply post further down features an up-sized serving. :lol:

 

Imaged Mars again the night before last (August 8th) from Peterborough on the highway to Broken Hill...we'd imaged from the caravan park several years back now but found a nice place the town has set aside for fully self-contained RV type vehicles etc. (ie, no power or sewerage, but no problems for us)

 

It was really the best vista for us in this large area on the North side of this old, declining railway hub - but we forgot just how plurry cold these places get...winding up the cords from our generator the next morning was invigorating using bare hands, what with their sheath of ice..! coldday.gif

 

We had intended to kick off our Neptune imaging for this year but it was so cold we reluctantly called it quits after Mars...next time definitely! undecided.gif

 

Quite a few folks have commented on Mars' features presently - what we find rather interesting is the changes to those areas where the dust has settled pretty reasonably over the last few weeks & where well-recognised landmarks/darker albedo features appear to have taken on quite altered appearances since the widely-spread & quite severe dust storms that have swept across Mars. shocked.gif

 

Aeolis - M. Cimmerium - Memnonia - Daedalia - Syria from West to East, with Gomer Sinus just risen in the far West...with Olympus Mons further North & the Tharsis volcanoes to the East are all familiar Martian albedo forms, but alongside the more "regular" albedo variations others have become fairly prominent with the redistribution of dust across the planet - which also includes craters seemingly enhanced in appearance/clarity by lighter coloured dust settling on their floors, much the same way Valles Marineris has also been very clearly delineated in the interim.

 

Here's a couple of r-g-b images with the attendant r-channels as well 2 iR610nm captures: we also captured iR742nm images but I have chosen not to display them as their times are fairly comparable to the 610nm captures...& these are much better resolved although as I demonstrated with some of our images recently the contrast is often greater via the 742nm filter...but at 83° elevation anything the longer wavelengths delivers becomes a moot point in all but very poor seeing. wink.gif

 

m2018-08-08_12-46etc_rgb-r&ir_dpmCompositeText.png


Edited by Kokatha man, 10 August 2018 - 09:18 PM.

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#2 Vedran

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Posted 10 August 2018 - 02:37 AM

Great images!


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#3 RedLionNJ

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Posted 10 August 2018 - 05:56 AM

Lovely, as usual, guys.

 

And the little "colour commentary" is awesome.  I'm sure most of us in the northern hemisphere would happily exchange our summer weathers for some of those ice sheaths! At least for one night of good seeing... :)



#4 kevinbreen

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Posted 10 August 2018 - 07:48 AM

I’m going to get Mars tonight. Be afraid, be very afraid!!
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#5 Baron

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Posted 10 August 2018 - 09:32 AM

A very good Mars!



#6 Jeff B1

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Posted 10 August 2018 - 02:36 PM

If another storm does not brew up Mars will return shortly to its old looks and you will wonder where all that dust went to.  Sometimes secular changes will occur for a while, but not for long.  Looks like a huge booger landed to the west of Solis Lacus.  Wonder how long it lasts?


Edited by Jeff B1, 10 August 2018 - 04:34 PM.


#7 Kokatha man

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Posted 10 August 2018 - 09:13 PM

Looks like a huge booger landed to the west of Solis Lacus. 

Apologies, you know I'm not up with all the technical terms Jeff! rofl2.gif

 

Apologies for omitting to thank people for replying or "Liking" the thread - much appreciated by Pat & myself! :)

 

The clouds over the NP are becoming interesting as the SPC shrinks & features become more noticeable in that region as the ice clears...

 

I get asked why I post "modest" image scales at times & I've already noted that it is very difficult to drizzle during processing with Mars atm...a contrast issue in many ways I believe...

 

But for the "uber-scale" folks here's a quick concession towards that type of presentation. (note: "towards" as in not "to" lol.gif )

 

The NP clouds are still bluish & you can see their form quite well here. ( a cloud hood - & not ice that Mr Ferret thought had pulled a disappearing act recently - getting colder there however with Winter solstice for the Nth. Hemi. on October 16th this year according to my info...)

 

I think that if you click on this image here it might come up a bit larger again... wink.gif

 

m2018-08-08_12-46etc_rgb-r&ir_dpmCompTextSS-TopHalfGB.png


Edited by Kokatha man, 10 August 2018 - 09:20 PM.

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#8 djhanson

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Posted 10 August 2018 - 09:21 PM

Nice shots Darryl!!!  :)  Your jetstream down under still hasn't sucked away that Martian dust! :D  Dang it! :D


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#9 HentySky

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Posted 11 August 2018 - 04:34 AM

Darryl, superb images again, looks like you got nice seeing conditions.  You have the planet edges looking natural, something I have difficulty with.

 

My trip to Broome was not as successful as I hoped, convection really destroyed the seeing, I suspect the land mass heats up a lot during the day.  We got back to Perth last night and managed to shoot an image between the fence and the roof edge at the unit we are in.  Was the best seeing in a fortnight.  Just processing the images.

 

Well done.  Cheers Brett.



#10 moonwatching ferret

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Posted 11 August 2018 - 09:25 AM

you have to understand one thing Daryl , This is the first time I am imaging Mars this close up and with a large scope. dont know why I thought it wass ice in the npc instead f just realizing its only clouds lol as for recognizing chaanges in the martian surface I have no mempory of what it looked like in previous oppisitions. at the end of its 2016 i cought it when it had dropped way down and with a wee 6 inch  cggt . not my 16 inch beast. I was wondering about that long canyon ? I was hoping to be able to get details from inside it but it just seems to be a whitish line in my images if thats what i belive i imaged. hope I didnt just confuse you.

 

  I have one thing to be happy about at least now what i am imaging on mars and what everyone else is imaging seems to resemble the winjupos sim lol  rea nice images btw



#11 JMP

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Posted 11 August 2018 - 04:26 PM

Thanks for posting the enlarged images. Love the detail in the IR610!



#12 Kokatha man

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Posted 11 August 2018 - 08:57 PM

Thanks once again to everyone! smile.gif

 

DJ - the seeing was quite reasonable this night...lowish jetstream & surface winds although quite divergent in direction which isn't our most beneficial, but being honest the defocused star's DR's looked pretty nice - better than what we've seen in a long time - & after initial clouds the sky cleared nicely - we'd made the trip to Peterborough to be above the cloud cover in all our more "normal" locations except Carrieton which had a faster jetstream...

 

Tbh Peterborough was a bit too far for a single night but we were happy we went (although really tired afterwards) & we now have another very nice free location for possible future sessions...

 

Brett, besides the ocean I guess temperature differences might interfere...I think I said we've imaged at Katherine & Tennant Creek with good results but it is also slightly later, around the break in the seasons (Oct/Nov) - & very inland...bad luck on that score but I hope you had a good time in other respects!

 

When I could drizzle the images in past oppositions I'd usually just go straight to a "non-destructive" dodge & burn where a 50% grayscale overlayer can be worked to darken or lighten the edges, ie altering tonality without adding or removing pixels so not falsifying the data in any way but removing most of the edge artefact, even though their is an element of obscuration of any details therein.

 

On the smaller images (capture scale for processing) I find it better to create an overlay mask first using a much softer-processed version of the rgb Mars which enables me to use a much softer edge where the edge artefact is much milder, then use the ND dodge & burn on this for a final application...

 

It is actually much quicker & simpler this way & I am always looking for faster processing methods. lol.gif

 

With the drizzled images you are working on a much smaller edge affect, or rather it becomes smaller after you scale down...but I still think the newer approach using a softer & harder processed pairs of images gives a better (& certainly easier/quicker) result without any compromises.

 

It's always on the sunlit limb, although I did say recently that for a very short time around opposition itself this artefact affects both limbs...

 

For anyone reading all this I know that GIMP has similar functions/applications: done really well you can achieve excellent results although most of ours' have an element of "get this bloody thing done & out of the way!" lol.gif It's mainly about brush sizes, low % applications & not being afraid to work from the inside out for part of the way...I might put a set of images on the processing pages of our website covering the Mars "edge artefact" although it really needs a video tute...& Mars will probably be long gone by the time I do it..! wink.gif

 

Joe, I understand...thinking it was ice is a common thing & I think I called that region the NPC in one of my posts myself although I know I've been careful to state "NPH" at other times.....you can really see their cloud-like form, especially in the 20:40:44 rgb image above along with a bluish blush to their colouration which maybe you might've also mentioned yourself in your own images somewhere...

 

Actually it's just a trick having a bit of fun mentioning you to get you to respond in one of my threads: I know I'll get a response if I do..! rofl2.gif

 

We're all learning - Jeff, that old observer with a wealth of Mars experience & knowledge has just enlightened me to Martian boogers the other day wink.gif & I think it was Paul that recently said something about confusing direction on Mars: that's simple 'cos all you need to think about is North America (or Oz in my case) where most maps have North "up"* & West to the left & East to the right with Earth rotating west to east or left to right just like Mars...& where it is morning on the East Coast before it is on the West Coast. smile.gif

 

Many of my maps are initially for my own understanding of Martian features btw...

 

* I might get a "rise" out of you here also 'cos I know you like to think that North should be "down" & South "up" lol.gif - & even though South is up technically in astronomical conventions I prefer North up as much of the time...  

 

EDIT: You can never expect to see anything more than Valles Marineris picked out in outline.....& with the dust settling on the floor of its multiple "canyons" this has really been one of the best times to image it - the best actually for AA'ers considering our current cameras & this opposition with the dust's impact!


Edited by Kokatha man, 11 August 2018 - 09:00 PM.

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#13 moonwatching ferret

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Posted 12 August 2018 - 01:32 AM

lol you still havent made a coment on my ganymede shado penumbra thread with one of my best Saturns yet. perhaps i should mention you there lol 



#14 Kokatha man

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Posted 12 August 2018 - 04:35 AM

lol you still havent made a coment on my ganymede shado penumbra thread with one of my best Saturns yet. perhaps i should mention you there lol 

Well, you can't blame me Mr Ferret...the way I calculate it is you are still running about 3:1 in your favour as far as each of us responding to each other's threads - & of course you know I sometimes get a bit grumpy about you reposting image for the nth time..! rofl2.gif

 

But I still think you're cool..!!! flowerred.gif flash.gif

Bad Parts: Personally I'm not drooling on my t-shirt about you're 2nd Jove in that thread mainly cos it's too cold here for just a t-shirt...I don't quite understand the "Ganymede penumbra" thingy tbh 'cos all I see is an elliptical shadow with a ring around said shadow due to over-processing...the elliptical shadow part is real however but I only see an umbra, no fainter penumbral shadow around that.

 

Good Parts: The 2nd & 3rd Saturns are top shelf stuff!!! waytogo.gif waytogo.gifwaytogo.gif waytogo.gif waytogo.gif  We picked up the "double-streak" disturbance in Saturn's EZ back in early April which is clearly seen in your image & is a long-lived feature - I don't think Prof. Ricardo Hueso would mind me quoting part of an email reply he sent to us back then with the accompanying link:

Quote: <"The  "double" disturbance in the EZ of Saturn is "an old good friend". This regular feature is particularly interesting and this one or previous similar features have been observed at least since 2013 by different amateurs.
Your latest observation is particularly clear! The double structure is quite difficult to get from ground-based observations. However you can see a high-resolution view of a similar "double" disturbance as observed by the Hubble Space Telescope in this image which was obtained back in 2015:">

  http://www.ajax.ehu....Equator_HST.jpg  

 

My under-lining in his quote btw, for obvious reasons: but looking at your 2nd Saturn image, which displays it slightly clearer due to a bit less exposure, you can see the 2 parallel streaks with another angled one on the left & upward-inclined - just like in the Hubble's from 2015...so if it is as suggested the self-same feature your capture is truly top shelf! applause.gif applause.gif applause.gif applause.gif applause.gif



#15 Pete Gorczynski

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Posted 12 August 2018 - 08:14 AM


EDIT: You can never expect to see anything more than Valles Marineris picked out in outline.....& with the dust settling on the floor of its multiple "canyons" this has really been one of the best times to image it - the best actually for AA'ers considering our current cameras & this opposition with the dust's impact!

Agreed! I have been imaging Mars since 2005 and this is the only time I have seen Valles Marineris like this.  I had no problem resolving it with my puny 7" from my less than ideal northern location.  So this dust storm is not as evil as everyone makes it out to be!

 

Pete G.



#16 CPellier

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Posted 12 August 2018 - 05:11 PM

Superb work, congratulations Darryl!



#17 John Boudreau

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Posted 12 August 2018 - 10:13 PM

Beautiful results Darryl! Nicely done once again! waytogo.gif



#18 moonwatching ferret

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Posted 13 August 2018 - 12:42 AM

Bad Parts: Personally I'm not drooling on my t-shirt about you're 2nd Jove in that thread mainly cos it's too cold here for just a t-shirt...I don't quite understand the "Ganymede penumbra" thingy tbh 'cos all I see is an elliptical shadow with a ring around said shadow due to over-processing...the elliptical shadow part is real however but I only see an umbra, no fainter penumbral shadow around that.

 

 its in the winjupos sim the reason why peeps dont hget it is they chop it out same way as the crepe ring in Saturn by sliding that slider in histogram like i did in the top image I actually under processed it and it was still there its not an artifact got to stop with the left histogram slider that darkens an images edges and removes faint detail

ganymede shadow1.jpg



#19 Kokatha man

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Posted 13 August 2018 - 09:22 AM

Thanks also fellas - & the "Likers." waytogo.gif

 

Agree Pete, apart from recording the dust spreading I was hoping for a rapid clearing but the ability to pick up craters & considerable delineation of V.M's various chasmata was a real bonus imo. (yeah, I had to check the plural of "chasma" lol.gif )

 

No real need to tell you that at about 20° elevation & using that fairly small scope you'd have to be as good as anyone with your output this apparition... wink.gif

 

Joe, I guess it's my thread & I can therefore wander a bit further off-topic in it here...the WinJupos simulation you've posted above does exhibit a clear penumbral band around the darker umbra shadow...but I see no relationship/comparison to what your 2nd Jove in that thread displays & this WJ image above - which is after all a simulation & not an indication of what can be expected.

 

I've taken a screenshot of your 2nd image at 200% for some relativity to the WJ sim & pointed out a couple of things in it.

 

There is a fuzzy edge to your Moon shadow in the 2nd image which is not quite as fuzzy/pronounced in the first image - but (in my opinion at least!) the 2nd image's shadow does not show any penumbra.

 

You might be correct if you think this fuzzy edge is the penumbra, but I'm far from convinced personally...

 

I also point out the ring around the shadow - which is actually lighter than the background surface of Jove - & is the only other point of note to me...this is a processing artefact in the same way that the other one I point out on the planet's edge is - I believe it also has some connection to sharp changes in contrast (ie, the moon shadow & planet background & the planet's edge & background sky) so it is likely a combination  of this (diffraction) & sharpening (G.E.)...the 2 factors exacerbating each other to a certain extent like the dreaded Mars edge artefact once you begin to sharpen the image.

 

Nonetheless sharpening is the most likely factor emphasizing this on Jove along both the brighter limb & also around the moon if it is on the disk...or the shadow in this example...

 

That's my take - I don't think it has much to do with the setting of the black-point (the left-slider in the histogram/levels) & you should appreciate that it is perfectly valid to adjust this but you can also adjust the other 2 sliders to compensate for said...especially if we switch to Saturn processing & are mindful of maintaining/restoring the Crepe Ring feature during processing...

 

FerretJove.png

 

 



#20 moonwatching ferret

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Posted 13 August 2018 - 03:02 PM

i still dis agree I saw wavy davys image from a month or 2 ago. could be further back as i think I was showing the image to my mother . anyway we both had a lighter shadow around the transit shadow and somebody even commented on wd's image in a f book page dedicated to imaging, anyway if your not convinced do a google search on Jupiter's moon shadows. There is an image of Callisto's shadow and it has a larger area or penumbra due to it being further from Jupiter. i kind of also feel I may just have imaged Saturns f ring ? Why not its a 16 f7 near perfect mirror with a wee secndary and i am in fl with dead calm seeing. iv notced in one or 2 images that that so called artifact pops up real thin and sharp with minimum sharpening. I also notice recently no more artifact at all n maater how hard i try to get it to come out I also notice itsreal dificult to get the crepe ring  probably due to the fact that Saturn is no longer fully iluminated. its far from opposition. if it were an artifact I should still be able to get it. either way for the images showing the artifact real fine and sharp I will keep it there when I decide to print thse images instead of doing what 99% of all planetary imagers think they have to do and chop that bump off in histogram and causing all the lighter details to disapear. I am talking about the rgb lines in the histogram graph. I will leave it for people to argue over. anyway dont get to upset with me lol I am about to re post my 05 31 image of mars to shoe the possible changes on mars's surface since I captured that same side last night



#21 Kokatha man

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Posted 13 August 2018 - 08:40 PM

Keeping to your image & your claim...there's absolutely nothing in that image of yours that could remotely be deemed a penumbra in my books Joe - full-stop, sorry!

 

You can easily point to it by using my image above & using anything to mark where you think it exists if you want to take this a bit further...

 

And as far as f book comments on anyone's images are concerned, all I can say about the general standard of the comments there is: rofl2.gif

 

You have previously bemoaned the "Kardashian" or whatever mentality, I'm surprised that you don't see parallels between that & some of the other "lowest common denominator mentalities" that pervade those types of sites in general...

 

I do post images on fb myself at times but I pay no attention to those over-gushing ones from folks who obviously know nothing whatsoever...like those folks who occasionally drop in here & claim "this is the best .....I've ever seen" & often to fairly rudimentary images - they just don't know any better but you don't want to start setting any store in that type of guff mate!

 

You're jumping here between Jovian moon shadows & Saturn's F-ring - which you clearly mistake for the un-adjusted blackpoint of the background sky around the outermost area adjacent to the A-ring...& imo it is you who is arguing about a claim you have invented on extremely tenuous ramblings my friend: I'm not upset, you know I like you as more than just another CN'er which is why I take the time to try & help if I can, but you really have to temper any ideas with fact & be prepared to at least substantiate them in some way - like pointing out on my image above where this penumbra is supposed to exist for starters! wink.gif


Edited by Kokatha man, 13 August 2018 - 08:42 PM.

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#22 Kokatha man

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Posted Yesterday, 05:11 AM

Ferret: < "as for the lighter edge of ganymedes shadow i awear i see it clear as day its just a fine lighter edge..." >

 

 

I can only presume you are referring to that lighter band around the moon shadow on Jove itself Joe, which I've surrounded with red dots in the image in this post - no doubts about that whatsoever if this is what you're referring to...& the slightly fuzzy edge to the (black) shadow itself cannot really be construed as a genuine instance of the penumbra either! wink.gif

 

You can believe that if you want to but it is stretching credibility a bit far: one of the benefits of a Galilean shadow on Jove is it allows you to focus for a really sharp black shadow's edge...it's not the b-all of focus adjustment, but it will coincide with sharpest focus elsewhere...

 

 

FerretsNonPenumbra.png



#23 Andrew Masur

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Posted Yesterday, 06:37 AM

The best Mars images not only give you a sense of the planetary surface but it's atmosphere as well, and this is exactly what you've caught here. You truly pass on the sense that this is another world. Incredible work!



#24 ToxMan

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Posted Yesterday, 12:56 PM

What I noticed the most about your processing, Darryl, is the exceptional job around the ice cap...your not getting the orange "bleeding" into the white, that creeps into images I have seen from others.



#25 Kokatha man

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Posted Yesterday, 08:07 PM

Thanks fellas - & for the "Likes" also! :)

 

Paul, at 83° elevation you probably find a lot of things work out much easier :lol: ...throw in fairly decent seeing conditions & the opportunity gets better still! ;)

 

This would be the highest we've had it rise but it still hits 81° at home! We haven't been to Carrieton since the former caretakers left, but it is only 1/2 degree further North & not too far from Peterborough either.

 

I suppose we all look at/for different things in images & for me it is the "sweeping" cloud bands at the N.P. in the 12:40:44 rgb that really "rock my boat"..! :lol:




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