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Daystar introducing new 60mm "ds" scope at same price point as PST SS

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#1 TerryWood

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Posted 10 August 2018 - 11:27 AM

Just got this link in my e-mail. Daystar will be selling a new 60mm "ds" scope for $695 beginning Aug 13th. I like my Coronado external etalons and not needing a power source, but it does look interesting.

 

http://www.daystarfi...60ScoutDS.shtml

 

V/R

 

Terry

 

 


Edited by TerryWood, 10 August 2018 - 11:50 AM.

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#2 Cometeer

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Posted 10 August 2018 - 11:39 AM

Very interesting. Really amazing if you can get similar Lunt/Coronado doublestack performance at more than half the price. I'll be looking forwards to reports.

 

 

The bundle isn't a good value. It provides like $50-100 worth of accessoriers for $200 more.


Edited by Cometeer, 10 August 2018 - 11:40 AM.

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#3 TerryWood

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Posted 10 August 2018 - 11:49 AM

Yeah, I agree. I would stick with the standard package if I were buying.

 

V/R

 

Terry



#4 Cometeer

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Posted 10 August 2018 - 12:10 PM

I emailed Daystar and received a quick reply regarding the bandpass:

 

"The SS60-DS comes in what we call the chromosphere model only. It will be within the 0.5Å to 0.3Å bandpass range."


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#5 MalVeauX

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Posted 10 August 2018 - 12:14 PM

I'm not impressed at all. I don't like all their recent entry options. This one is cheaper and the Quark is integrated and cannot be removed. Their other entry scope solution has the Quark capable of being removed and used independently and you spend a horde more for what's basically a small achromatic refractor. This produce is not worth it at all to me considering the Quark is basically used in there. That said, I'm curious if it can be removed safely and how they made it that way. Because I know they thought about "will people just buy this to get a cheaper Quark?" And so they probably did something to make it harder or impossible to get the Quark out of it for that price and keep its functions. As it is, I don't care for the "like a double stack" without showing the bandpass at subangstrom level with a measurement or an example to confirm.

 

It ultimately appears to be a combo quark with something to bring it to manage the light cone, be it the 4.3x or something else (it's almost 1000mm at 60mm aperture). And it still require power of course.

 

For the cost and size, I think a Lunt/Solarmax is the better overall option still.

 

Very best,


Edited by Don W, 11 August 2018 - 11:52 AM.

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#6 Astroscrub

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Posted 10 August 2018 - 12:15 PM

Well, I've been wanting to try some solar imaging but the PST from what I gather is tricky to image with and the other scopes were pretty expensive. I think I might get one of these. Thanks for the heads-up.



#7 Astroscrub

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Posted 10 August 2018 - 12:18 PM

I'm not impressed at all. I don't like all their recent entry options. This one is cheaper and the Quark is integrated and cannot be removed. Their other entry scope solution has the Quark capable of being removed and used independently and you spend a horde more for what's basically a small achromatic refractor. This produce is not worth it at all to me considering the Quark is basically used in there. That said, I'm curious if it can be removed safely and how they made it that way. Because I know they thought about "will people just buy this to get a cheaper Quark?" And so they probably did something to make it harder or impossible to get the Quark out of it for that price and keep its functions. As it is, I don't care for the "like a double stack" without showing the bandpass at subangstrom level with a measurement or an example to confirm.

 

It ultimately appears to be a combo quark with something to bring it to manage the light cone, be it the 4.3x or something else (it's almost 1000mm at 60mm aperture). And it still require power of course.

 

For the cost and size, I think a Lunt/Solarmax is the better overall option still.

 

 

 

Very best,

Maybe I spoke too soon, I guess I'll wait to see some reviews then.lol.gif



#8 George9

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Posted 10 August 2018 - 02:05 PM

At first look, it seems like a reasonable price for a reasonable item. I suspect parts of the Quark are effectively further forward in the refractor so you cannot use the Quark-like element safely by itself.

 

The only thing I object to is "doublestack performance" if they just mean 0.3-0.5 Lorentzian bandpass. That's very good, but not doublestack. You'll still get parasitic continuum light. Depends on the profile of the bandpass. Unless this really is something new.

 

George



#9 BYoesle

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Posted 10 August 2018 - 02:52 PM

Hi George, I'm a bit skeptical here as well.

 

 

The only thing I object to is "doublestack performance" if they just mean 0.3-0.5 Lorentzian bandpass. That's very good, but not doublestack. You'll still get parasitic continuum light. Depends on the profile of the bandpass. Unless this really is something new.

 

It is interesting that the description states 'double stack' with single quotation marks. Interesting that is sells for ~ $700, while the standard 60 mm scope with a regular Quark is ~ $1300, (80 mm is $2,700), and a Quark prom/chromo/combo by itself is ~ $1200. I would have to believe something has to give for it to be sold for only ~ $700.

 

What has been happening "industry wide" is that to increase market penetration and increase sales volume, quality standards for contrast uniformity and finesse have been loosened for entry level and consumer grade H alpha filters so they can be mass-produced for relatively low cost. DayStar has done this with the Quark. On the other hand, SE and PE filters have remained at about what they cost when first introduced in the mid-late 1970's - adjusted for inflation of course.

 

Until someone can actually get one to review and perhaps see what's inside, my best guess is that the 'double stack' is not a second etalon, but a narrow-band filter of about 1 to 2 or more angstroms FWHM, tilt-tuned (via the stainless knob at the front red anodized element) and is followed by a Quark version that is temperature controlled like the standard Quark. It's also difficult to understand what "great strides in cost reduction" have been made which allow an already entry level filter system to be further reduced in price while adding a 'doublestack' and ancillary optics, carbon fiber tube, etc.

 

I would note that a 1 - 2+ angstrom coated filter of decent quality would cost a few hundred dollars by itself (Andover 5 A 12.5 mm diameter is $625 https://www.andoverc...ndpass-filters/ ), let alone adding the optics, mechanics, and the Quark (?) filter element, which would still appear to need the telecentric lens system.

 

It remains the bane of the industry that they haven't developed a standardized set of parameters for evaluating and communicating filter quality other than almost meaningless FWHM specifications. Until then it's buyer beware, and high quality usually always cost more.


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#10 RedLionNJ

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Posted 11 August 2018 - 11:07 AM

This caught my eye, too.  I already have an early version of the Meade/Coronado SolarMax (the 40mm variety) which is built like a tank, has none of the focus issues (e.g. needing a barlow to focus) like the PSTs, but was keeping my eye out for something which maybe doesn't weigh QUITE as much as the SolarMax (want to piggyback on my SCT, which is already near the limit of what I can counterbalance on my GEM).

 

The promise of 'doubestack-like' performance is quite interesting. But if it really means 'nowhere near doublestack-like performance' (hence the quotation marks), that's simply false advertising.

 

And something else which never really occurred to me before regarding h-alpha scopes - since the object is to get a really, really narrow slice of bandwidth (well under one Angstrom), is a doublet even necessary at these focal lengths? Would there be any visible difference between a single lens, a doublet or a triplet?  Just curious more than anything....



#11 MalVeauX

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Posted 11 August 2018 - 11:15 AM

A doublet is not needed. It could be done with a singlet!

 

Just not very many singlets out there (with good construction, good focuser, etc). Most singlets, these days, I wager are likely the $20 toys. Very hard to find an 80mm singlet I imagine. But you're right, you don't even need a doublet, definitely not a triplet, we're not correcting color here.

 

That said, good quality glass is important still for other properties beyond color correction.

 

Very best,



#12 cptbobrfh

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Posted 12 August 2018 - 09:26 AM

Maybe the blocking filter on this new scope is not the 12mm on the standard Quark,but a SMALLER blocking filter(say a 6mm one) is used to lower the cost.On the ad,it doesn't indicate what size the blocking filter is,but on ad for standard Quark it does,so this is what my thoughts are concerning the cost reduction on new scope.

 

Bob


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#13 cptbobrfh

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Posted 13 August 2018 - 12:48 PM

In my opinion, this potentially,is a great idea for an entry level type solar telescope. 

 

For only $695?

 

I remember when I bought my first solar telescope, a 60mm Coronado Solarmax SS back in 2005,for $3,250! It was a wonderful instrument,to which I further double stacked it externally to <0.5 for an additional $2,250. Total cost: $5500.

 

Not only is this "new" item from Daystar going to give you 'double stack performance(0.3-0.5A),it has a very good focuser location as to not put added weight on the eyepiece end of the refractor,which should help or eliminate focuser "slop",sending the Sun image down the tube in a straight path,not "tilted",to the etalon.

 

Bullet finder also is a great idea.Comes with scope.

 

 

Carbon fiber tube is also lighter than conventional refractor OTA's,which will help balance this scope on smaller,less expensive mounts with less "wiggle".

 

And it sure looks nice as well!

 

Seems like an awfully nice entry type scope with plenty of aperture and other innovative features for $695.


Edited by cptbobrfh, 13 August 2018 - 06:56 PM.


#14 BYoesle

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Posted 13 August 2018 - 05:25 PM

A Tucson era circa 2005 DS Coronado would likely kick the [deleted] out of that $695 DayStar in optical performance, or just about any other 60 mm H-alpha scope/filter system currently out there. The exception might be the SolarScope filter systems, but if you think the Coronado 60 DS was expensive...

 

https://optcorp.com/...ha-solar-filter



#15 jgroub

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Posted 02 September 2018 - 11:29 PM

Well, they've been out for three weeks now.  Any reports/reviews?  Anyone?  Bueller?  smile.gif


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#16 DAVIDG

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Posted 03 September 2018 - 10:21 AM

"And something else which never really occurred to me before regarding h-alpha scopes - since the object is to get a really, really narrow slice of bandwidth (well under one Angstrom), is a doublet even necessary at these focal lengths? Would there be any visible difference between a single lens, a doublet or a triplet?  Just curious more than anything...."

 

  Here is the problem if you use a singlet at these F-ratios, a singlet with spherical curves can only be corrected for spherical aberration or coma but not both at the same time.  So you need additional lenses to correct the aberration that is not fully corrected. The Sun is 1/2  degree in diameter so it have sharp image across the field  of view to view the whole surface at once, the optical system needs to be fully corrected for both coma and spherical aberration. If you just use a singlet for the objective then you have to aspherize a surface to achieve both full coma and full spherical aberration correction. Aspherizing cost money. A doublet while not needed for color correction does fully correct for coma and spherical using spherical surfaces. So while a doublet is made from two pieces of glass it is  actually cheaper to make since the surfaces are spherical. 

 

                             - Dave 


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#17 ValeryD

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Posted 03 September 2018 - 11:02 AM

Anyone tested this telescope?

 

 

 

Valery


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#18 dragracingdan

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Posted 20 September 2018 - 06:44 AM

Curious about this little scope as well, anyone have experience with it?

#19 44ye

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Posted 20 September 2018 - 03:33 PM

A reminder about  DayStar Solar Fest  OCT  4-7  http://www.solarfestusa.com/   in Warrensburg, MO

444YE




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