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Astro-Tech Paradigm, 60* Dual ED, 1.25" EPs

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#1 Barlowbill

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Posted 25 August 2018 - 09:37 PM

I bought a 15mm and a 3.2mm from Astronomics.  I have been wanting this brand for awhile.  So many great review about the here on CN.  I realized that I have never seen anyone selling them here!  That tells me something.

I am amazed at how large and heavy they are.  My 10mm Sirius Plossl is about 1 1/2" tall with rubber folded.  The Paradigm 15mm is 3" tall and the 3,2mm is about 3 1/2" tall.  Both are hefty.  If I actually know how to work the wife's kitchen scale (and that is debatable) the 15mm is 6.2 oz and the 3.2 is 7.3 oz.  I'm not used to big, heavy eps.  I have some 2"ers but they are not my normal size eps.  I'm very excited about my Paradigms.  I figured the 3.2mm was kind of pointless but what the heck.  At 375X it will be fun when it works. 

 

OK, it got dark and I tried them out.  Seeing conditions were "Fair" according to Night Sky and I agree.  Usually I can see Jupiter very well with my 8mmVixen NPL.  Not so good tonight.  With the 3.2mm Paradigm it was pretty much a blur.  Mars looked like it always does, an orange ball.  Sometimes I get slight gray shading but not tonight.  Saturn was a surprise.  It looked pretty much like it usually looks.  The 3.2mm worked well for it.

 

The full moon was freaky with the 3.2 mm.  I am not used to that much detail (close-up).  Took a bit to get used to it.  I do think it is too much.  The 15 mm was really nice.  As an aside, I really like my variable moon filter!  Overall, I am impressed.  Bigger fov than I am used to.  Now I see why no one sells them.

 

Cheers from T town.


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#2 Joe1950

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Posted 25 August 2018 - 10:24 PM

Bill, I have several and wouldn't part with them. I can't compare them to the very upscale brands, but I find them the best for my wallet size. I've been able to collect the 3.2, 5, 8, 12 and 15 mm focal lengths. And with the 3.2 you need very good seeing to get the most from it.

 

Seeing has so much to do with the planets. Last night, both Jupiter and Mars were poor views, but Saturn was excellent.

 

Tonight I started with Jupiter before it got into the weeds and the detail was very good. Saturn again was excellent. Mars, despite high clouds was much better than last night. The pole stood out nicely and I could make out dark areas in the southern hemisphere.

 

These eyepieces, both the Paradigm and the Agena Dual ED (which ar exactly the same) are comfortable with the 60° FOV, good eye relief, good to the edge and have an excellent color dynamic. When seeing is very good and Jupiter is higher in the sky, all kinds of colors show up. Even the pastels.

 

Anyway, I've tried many brands, and all were good, but I've come to like these the best. And as I said, they are affordable.

 

Enjoy! 


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#3 Ohmless

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Posted 25 August 2018 - 11:19 PM

I can attest that two have sold ever and I sold both.  I had the 5mm and 12mm.  Both have been sold but I loved them dearly.  I sold them to buy a binopair of 15mm dual eds because I was so impressed.  The 12mm was my favorite solar monoview.  I took excellent sketches of mars with the 5mm monoviewed as well.  I am likely to rebuy a pair of 12mm if I don't get the meade hd60 for maximum magnification(will wait since I rarely need the 15mm) and really want even more to get a pair of 18mm eyepieces.  Excellent eyepieces for any price.

 

Kelly


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#4 stargazer193857

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Posted 25 August 2018 - 11:44 PM

At $60 a pop I'd spend $109 on a Meade 82 deg 14mm and $10-$30 on a barlow.

Speaking of barlows, what is their longest focal length that has a barlow? Also, what f#'s are you using when you get sharp edges? Where the longer focal lengths sharp to the edge too?

#5 Joe1950

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Posted 26 August 2018 - 12:39 AM

I have up to the 15mm and they all have the front Barlow. The front negative lens is usually referred to as a Smyth lens, since it is specifically designed for each eyepiece it is used in.

 

A major purpose of the Smyth lens as part of the entire eyepiece is to increase eye relief, especially on the shorter focal lengths.

 

All the eyepieces are good to the edge, in my opinion. Of course, the scope they are used in has something to do with that also. I use them in my 6" f/6 reflector, and they work very well. I can't say how they would do in anything using a shorter focal ratio.

 

I've heard the Meade 82° eyepieces are excellent. But I'd be cautious about using it with an inexpensive Barlow.  I tend not to use Barlows because they change the characteristics of the eyepiece and can vignette in some cases. Also, adding more glass can increase scatter if the Barlow is not of a good quality. Adding a Barlow to some eyepieces will cause blackout areas. The Paradigms are very forgiving where eye placement is concerned and blackout is not an issue.

 

I have a 6mm and 9mm Expanse clones and they are good, sharp eyepieces. But your eye has to be just in the right place or you will get a blackout.

 

That's just my preference. Also, to me 82° AFOV is the most I'm comfortable with. Any wider is too wide for my taste. The ideal AFOV for me is about 70°. The 60° field of the Paradigms is plenty for me. To my eyes, that is  a wide field and 70° is ideal. over 80° such as the 100° and higher I find uncomfortable.

 

If you have had good views with the Meade and used it with a Barlow, that's great. As I said, they are well respected eyepieces.

 

I do have a Meade Series 4000 Ultra Wide Angle, 82° eyepiece, which is an older version of the 82° eyepieces you are speaking of. It has great coatings and is great eyepiece. Many consider the series to be classics.

 

The only drawback I find with it is that it is large and heavy, compared to the Paradigms. Using mainly smaller scopes, I find the Paradigma a better fit. Again, just my preference.

 

Fortunately there are plenty of choices available to fit different preferences and affordability.


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#6 Simon B

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Posted 27 August 2018 - 09:55 AM

I am amazed at how large and heavy they are.  My 10mm Sirius Plossl is about 1 1/2" tall with rubber folded.  The Paradigm 15mm is 3" tall and the 3,2mm is about 3 1/2" tall.  Both are hefty.  If I actually know how to work the wife's kitchen scale (and that is debatable) the 15mm is 6.2 oz and the 3.2 is 7.3 oz.  I'm not used to big, heavy eps.  I have some 2"ers but they are not my normal size eps.

 

If you think the Paradigms are heavy, wait till you try a 31 Nagler grin.gif


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#7 Joe1950

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Posted 27 August 2018 - 11:04 AM

I was thinking the same, Simon. The Paradigms are light compared to many I've run across. lol.gif


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#8 Starman1

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Posted 27 August 2018 - 03:59 PM

I bought a 15mm and a 3.2mm from Astronomics.  I have been wanting this brand for awhile.  So many great review about the here on CN.  I realized that I have never seen anyone selling them here!  That tells me something.

I am amazed at how large and heavy they are.  My 10mm Sirius Plossl is about 1 1/2" tall with rubber folded.  The Paradigm 15mm is 3" tall and the 3,2mm is about 3 1/2" tall.  Both are hefty.  If I actually know how to work the wife's kitchen scale (and that is debatable) the 15mm is 6.2 oz and the 3.2 is 7.3 oz.  I'm not used to big, heavy eps.  I have some 2"ers but they are not my normal size eps.  I'm very excited about my Paradigms.  I figured the 3.2mm was kind of pointless but what the heck.  At 375X it will be fun when it works. 

 

OK, it got dark and I tried them out.  Seeing conditions were "Fair" according to Night Sky and I agree.  Usually I can see Jupiter very well with my 8mmVixen NPL.  Not so good tonight.  With the 3.2mm Paradigm it was pretty much a blur.  Mars looked like it always does, an orange ball.  Sometimes I get slight gray shading but not tonight.  Saturn was a surprise.  It looked pretty much like it usually looks.  The 3.2mm worked well for it.

 

The full moon was freaky with the 3.2 mm.  I am not used to that much detail (close-up).  Took a bit to get used to it.  I do think it is too much.  The 15 mm was really nice.  As an aside, I really like my variable moon filter!  Overall, I am impressed.  Bigger fov than I am used to.  Now I see why no one sells them.

 

Cheers from T town.

These are sold by several sources, but most companies sell them under private label names.

Our sponsor, Astronomics, sells them as AstroTech Paradigms.

The manufacturer, Barsta, markets them as BST Starguider Dual ED eyepieces and at least one US reseller sells that brand.

They are also sold as:

Telescope Service N-ED

Omegon Flatfield ED

Available focal lengths: 3.2mm, 5mm, 8mm, 12mm, 15mm, 18mm, 25mm


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#9 Joe1950

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Posted 27 August 2018 - 04:24 PM

I was surprised, Don, seeing ES coming out with a line of 52° eyepieces. With 15 - 16mm eye relief and if the build is as solid an the other lines the pricing is attractive. There are some focal lengths that would fill in some gaps nicely.

 

But the tendency has always been toward wider. Their last two added lines have been the 62° and now 52°. I wonder if they are targeting the somewhat less affluent such as myself?  grin.gif

 

Interestingly, and I don't know how popular the 62° series are, very few of them seem to come up in the used market. That's either because fewer are sold, or the buyers like them.

 

I've always thought, and I could be way off since I know really nothing of the business, that TeleVue, with their reputation would sell a ton of eyepieces with a similar 58-60° field, priced at $99. Maybe they feel it would take away from their higher lines. Or maybe they wouldn't make any profit with such an offering.


Edited by Joe1950, 27 August 2018 - 04:32 PM.

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#10 Barlowbill

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Posted 27 August 2018 - 04:45 PM

So today in the Classifieds two people have eiether Agena Starguider or Astro-Tech eps for sale.  I guess I spoke to soon about never seeing them come up for sale.  Or I got those folks motivated.  Do I see a commission heading my way?  LOL


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#11 Joe1950

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Posted 27 August 2018 - 05:04 PM

Absolutely!

 

I see them now and them. In fact, and I hate to admit it, I, myself, sold a set a few years ago in order to try something else. But I came back! Sometimes you have to try other things to gain a real appreciation of what you like best.



#12 Starman1

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Posted 27 August 2018 - 05:06 PM

I was surprised, Don, seeing ES coming out with a line of 52° eyepieces. With 15 - 16mm eye relief and if the build is as solid an the other lines the pricing is attractive. There are some focal lengths that would fill in some gaps nicely.

 

But the tendency has always been toward wider. Their last two added lines have been the 62° and now 52°. I wonder if they are targeting the somewhat less affluent such as myself?  grin.gif

 

Interestingly, and I don't know how popular the 62° series are, very few of them seem to come up in the used market. That's either because fewer are sold, or the buyers like them.

 

I've always thought, and I could be way off since I know really nothing of the business, that TeleVue, with their reputation would sell a ton of eyepieces with a similar 58-60° field, priced at $99. Maybe they feel it would take away from their higher lines. Or maybe they wouldn't make any profit with such an offering.

It simply couldn't be made in Japan, which is where their Delite eyepieces are made.


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#13 Joe1950

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Posted 27 August 2018 - 05:30 PM

Ah! Got it!

 

Thanks very much, as always, Don!



#14 Hipoptical

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Posted 27 August 2018 - 05:33 PM

I bought the Paradigms on a whim to go with more expensive EP's. So far I'm really knocked out by how good they are. I'm new to this game though, and just starting to find my feet. 

 

I also bought the 3.2mm along with the 8mm, 12mm, and 15mm. 

 

The 15mm has kind of become the standard EP I use to measure all my other EP's by. 

 

The 3.2mm I also thought might have been a mistake to buy, but so far in my fast f5 newt it's had a couple of shots out of the box and even though I realise it's not going to be my most used eyepiece, I can tell that it wasn't a mistake to buy it at all. It's nice to have for those occasions when the seeing is good. It's a quality view as well in my humble opinion. 

 

As for the 15mm - I was out the other night when it was almost a full moon. It was low on the horizon after rising and I only get to have about an hour or two of viewing due to the very narrow field of view from my back yard. I also got a bit wrapped up and confused with putting on my Orion polarising filter to dim the view, but that's another story. 

 

The atmosphere was a bit hazy to start with, but it didn't seem to spoil the view so much. It cleared a bit as it rose. The moon was super crisp to the edge, hardly any wavering or distortion. I checked it in my 17mm Sky Watcher Plossl and again it was a breathtaking view. That very inexpensive EP is also becoming something of a standard for me as I find my way about. 

 

All well and good with the Orion polarising filter. It dimmed it enough to stop the bit of eye burn I was getting. I even put on a blue 30 percent transmission filter by mistake. In fact, I really enjoyed the view with it. I used it without the Orion filter on. And even though it was slightly too much loss in brightness and slightly too much gain in the blue spectrum, it did the job. I'll be using it again, even though it's meant for viewing Saturn and Jupiter apparently. I had these bought for me so please forgive my extra ignorance in this area. 

 

Anyway, this was all through the 15mm Paradigm. It was a real joy to have a decent shot at the moon, even if it was just for an hour or two. I was swapping EP's like a madman. But that 15mm has become my yardstick. It's a superb EP.

 

So much so, when I had finished faffing about with the filters and whatnot, I remembered I had a brand new Baader 17.5mm turn up the other day, and it was still in its box. I whipped it out quickly, no filter and stuck it in the telescope. My first impression? Is that it? Pretty underwhelming compared to the 15mm Paradigm

 

But keep in mind this is a rash judgement made from about 30 seconds viewing as the moon went in to the trees and started to obscure my view. Doh! It even started to cloud over a bit then as well so I couldn't test it on any other of the night sky. Back in the box it went. 

 

I'm not making a judgement on it with 30 seconds of viewing. I'm really looking forward to trying it out properly when I get the chance. 

 

But the Paradigm 15mm was definitely comparable. I bought four of them for the same price as the Baader cost me, when I include the discount I got for buying them all in one go. 

 

I messed about with the 12mm and the 8mm Paradigms as well, noting changes in magnification and brightness. Finding my feet. Learning the ropes. All excellent views. I even had a go at barlowing them as well where applicable. Just using my humble Shorty Barlow, it was pretty impressive. They do barlow well even though they have a Smyth lens in the bottom part.

 

I didn't get a chance to use my ES x2 Focal Extender. And my ES 24mm 68* still hasn't made it out of the box. 

 

The twisting eye cup thing really helps with viewing as well, so don't forget to make use of it. 

 

I need to compare the 15mm as well with my ES 16mm 68* EP. I really like this ES eyepiece. It's really impressive. And it works just great as well with my aforementioned ES x2 FE.

 

I suppose for a total newbie like me, the 15mm range lies in the middle of things. It's wide enough to be able to take in a decent amount of sky, but high enough mag to be able to really enjoy views (such as the moon) as well. It also doubles up to a very usable 7.5mm as well utilising the ES x2 FE. It even seems to work pretty good with the Shorty Barlow as well. 

 

I went a bit over the top buying EP's (I blame this board), and I just haven't had the clear skies and time to really compare them all to each other yet. But by default that 15mm Paradigm has become my 'Gold Standard'. 

 

You can buy them in the UK for 40 quid and they are called BST StarGuiders. You can even get them for less if you shop around or buy in 'bulk'. From my experience and what I've read, the 8mm, 12mm and 15mm are the real sweet spot. I don't even find myself wanting more than what the 60* FOV provides, such is the clarity and over all delicious views they give. 

 

I'm sure with time, as I become more discerning, I will spot errors and aberrations and all that. But for now, I'm just enjoying the honeymoon period. And again, from my little experience (and not little research I have done), I don't see anyone offering this level of quality at this kind of price, with so many happy customers. I think the whole 'renaming' thing confuses people a bit. But if you do your research it's easy enough to work out. 

 

Even the longer focal lengths such as the 18mm which sometimes are said to be the 'runts of the litter' get great glowing reviews by some as well. If I didn't have the remaining gaps filled with what I already have, I'd be happy to buy them to see if they measure up, and if not, move them on. 

 

This is an indulgence for me when all is told. A lot of people just aren't in the market to buy high end Televue EPs and the like. Definitely worth it if you have the money. But there is so much great stuff at the lower end and mid-range of the market, that for those with just about enough cash, you can really knock yourself out and experiment with the wonderful world of eyepieces. See what works for you. What works for your 'scope. 

 

What I've just ended spending on Eye Pieces I just realised I could have bought a new better telescope than what I already have. That is something to think about as well. But experimenting and learning about EP's really helps you to understand optics from a fundamental viewpoint. And I feel so much more confident now of making the right decision when I decide to upgrade and buy a new telescope. 

 

All of this in my humble and newbie opinion, of course.


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#15 Hipoptical

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Posted 27 August 2018 - 05:58 PM

I was surprised, Don, seeing ES coming out with a line of 52° eyepieces. With 15 - 16mm eye relief and if the build is as solid an the other lines the pricing is attractive. There are some focal lengths that would fill in some gaps nicely.

 

But the tendency has always been toward wider. Their last two added lines have been the 62° and now 52°. I wonder if they are targeting the somewhat less affluent such as myself?  grin.gif

 

Interestingly, and I don't know how popular the 62° series are, very few of them seem to come up in the used market. That's either because fewer are sold, or the buyers like them.

 

I've always thought, and I could be way off since I know really nothing of the business, that TeleVue, with their reputation would sell a ton of eyepieces with a similar 58-60° field, priced at $99. Maybe they feel it would take away from their higher lines. Or maybe they wouldn't make any profit with such an offering.

 

 

I'm really excited about the 52* ES EP's coming out. Especially the 10mm. The eye relief being one major factor. I have a 24mm 68* and 16mm 68* by them, so this would kind of fill in the other side of the range, considering I don't actually have a 10mm EP at the moment apart from my Vite Aspheric 10mm which came with my scope (great EP by the way). 

 

In fact if it's good I'll probably get the 20mm  that they are doing as well. I really love that 'range' so far, with my Sky Watcher 20 quid Plossl giving really magnificent views. I'm hoping the ES might be a bit better again. It will be fun to compare them anyway. 

 

At the kind of price it's been introduced at, it's perfect for an impulse buyer like me. It doesn't break the bank, and if it's not up to par, it can always be sold on for not too much loss.

 

I'd love nothing better than a case full of TeleVue EP's. Oh, and a really high end telescope as well. And if that isn't too much to ask, how about clear skies every night, and the good health and time to just drink it all in. But for now there is so much to explore. The law of diminishing returns is starting to apply...

 

You can't get a Paradigm in the 10mm range, and I already have 8mm and 12mm by them. So yes, that 10mm 52* might just fill a gap. If it's quality, I won't haggle about a few degrees of field of view. And I'm sure that even if one day I did get the odd TeleVue around that focal range, that ES EP would still find its place here or there. 

 

I've decided not to buy any more EP's until I get to know what I have and understand them a bit more. I have over a dozen now. But that ES 52* 10mm (and possibly the 20mm) would really round off my collection nicely. 


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#16 Joe1950

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Posted 27 August 2018 - 07:13 PM

Very good report Hipoptical! You've touched on several key points about the eyepiece world.

 

I certainly would likely have the premium brand name telescopes and eyepieces if possible. And I actually have deep pockets. Just nothing in them. grin.gif

 

At my stage in the hobby and in life, having a comfortable yet quality view is important. So, the Paradigms/BST StarGuiders/Etc... fill the need and are within my range. Plus, I use scopes that are on the smaller size and a huge heavy eyepiece throws everything out of whack!

 

Very good. Enjoy the views. Oh and I must agree with you on the Vite Aspheric 10mm. I have one now for the 10mm gap you mentioned and it is an extraordinary piece, especially where it's priced. On the other hand, the 4mm version of the same kind didn't work out for me at all. 

 

All the best!

joe


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#17 BarrySimon615

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Posted 28 August 2018 - 10:00 AM

You can't get a Paradigm in the 10mm range, and I already have 8mm and 12mm by them. So yes, that 10mm 52* might just fill a gap. If it's quality, I won't haggle about a few degrees of field of view. And I'm sure that even if one day I did get the odd TeleVue around that focal range, that ES EP would still find its place here or there.

 

So where is the gap?  The magnification jump in going from a 12 mm to an 8 mm eyepiece is 50%, which is a good step.  Some like it a bit tighter, maybe 40% or even 33%, and sometimes you have to deal with tighter steps if you want a complete set of something.  In the Paradigm series the magnification step between the 18 mm and the 12 mm is 50%, so having the 15 mm might be considered a bit unnessary as we have just a 20% magnification step between the 18 mm and the 15 mm and a 25% step between the 15 mm and the 12 mm.  Likewise, if you add a 10 mm in a set where you already have an 8 mm and a 12 mm, your magnification jump between the 12 mm and the 10 mm is just 20% and the step between the 10 mm and the 8 mm is just 25%.  These steps are too close, of course this is my opinion only.  The only real argument for a 10 mm when you already have the 8 mm and 12 mm is if the 8 mm almost gives a really good image on a given night, but by backing off the magnification just a bit, you clean up the image.

 

The field of view issue may really be noticed though and dropping from a 60 degree apparent field to a 52 degree apparent field will be noticed.  With a 1000 mm focal length telescope a 12 mm Paradigm would give you 83.3X and a 0.72 degree true field, a 10 mm 52 degree series eyepiece would give you 100x and a 0.52 degree true field and a 8 mm Paradigm would give you 125x and a 0.48 degree true field.  If your scope has a shorter focal length you can do the math, but the magnification steps would be even smaller.

 

Having said all of this, I am considering the 30 mm in the 52 degree series when available.  I have all of the 82 degree series from 4.7 thru 14, plus the 20 mm and 24 mm in the 68 degree series.  The 30 mm would complete what I want in an ES 1.25" eyepiece case.  Sometimes the heart over-rules the mind!

 

Barry Simon



#18 Starman1

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Posted 28 August 2018 - 01:24 PM

It depends on the focal length of the scope.

A 13>>10>>8 mm progression would seem too close in a short focal length scope.

In my refractor, that's 55x, 71x, 89x and, frankly, the 55x>>89x jump (44x) is just fine.

In my dob, however, which is only a 12.5", so far from a long focal length, that is 140x, 183x, 228x, or a jump of 43x and 45x.

Each of those jumps is noticeable and represents about the same leap as the 55x>>89x jump in the refractor.

 

I guess the question is, do you want the jump in magnification to be significant?  If so, a 50% jump between magnifications will certainly do it.

It might make a smaller eyepiece set, too. 

If, on the other hand, you want the jumps to be a bit closer so the magnification increase is noticeable, yet the contextual field doesn't shrink too much,

or because you're inching up on the seeing limit, I can see closer jumps.

And if you're a planetary observer, and would like the jumps at the top end to be closer, a decreasing % jump between eyepieces as the focal lengths get shorter might be good.

 

Several years ago, I suggested magnification jumps of 50X between eyepieces for an 8" scope, i.e. 50x, 100x, 150x, 200x, etc.

I'm beginning to think even jumps between eyepieces make a lot of sense for every size of scope, the gap being size-dependent.

That answers the planetary enthusiast who wants a decreasing % change as the magnifications go up, and the deep sky enthusiast looking for a maximum magnification for an object, yet not too high (i.e. too dim).


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#19 Joe1950

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Posted 28 August 2018 - 01:41 PM

Very good explanation, Don. 

 

I know with the 127mm Bresser Mak, 10mm seems to hit a sweet spot for planetary. That's a 0.67mm exit pupil. The 12mm (158x) is just a little low in power power and the 8mm (237x) a little too high! We're talking 190x with a 10mm and that seems to be just right, depending on conditions, of course.

 

It's different for the moon, where the 12mm seems just right, giving ultrasharp detail and contrast that seems to have no limit. 

 

We don't have deep sky around here.

 

It may not seem like a big difference in magnification, but to the eye, certain magnifications, or exit pupil size if you like to in those terms, are more 'comfortable.'



#20 sg6

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Posted 28 August 2018 - 02:10 PM

The 3.2 would be too much for the ETX, I would say that the 5mm also is too much. 8mm may work at times and the 12mm more often. The Vixen NPL's are good so for a target that fits in could take a good eyepiece to beat it

 

They are solid eyepieces, but work well for the cost. I would expect the Vixen and the Dual ED to be close maybe the Dual ED could be more comfortable in use.

 

Over here they have become the almost standard upgrade from the supplied items.


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#21 Joe1950

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Posted 28 August 2018 - 02:38 PM

Agreed!

 

I also had an opportunity to view with a Vixen 4mm SLV. More eye relief than the Plossls, still with a 52° FOV, which isn't a problem for me as long as the eye relief is there. Very good eyepiece, and they were on sale for about $109 for the longest time. I think that's a good price for them.

 

But recently they returned to $169 and as good as I believe they are, I think that is too much. The Explore Scientific 82° line and the Baader Hyperions are priced in that general range and would likely be a more popular buy.

 

One other thing I find rather strange. I am definitely NOT a TeleVue basher. I know they have a very loyal following and their offerings are superb, if not the best.

 

But I look at the Ethos line, and wonder why anyone would spend over $600 for a 3.7mm or 4.7mm eyepiece, that I would think is a planetary eyepiece?

 

Granted they have a 100° FOV. But even that would seem far too much when viewing Jupiter or Saturn or Mars.

 

Is what they deliver in terms of sharpness, contrast and lack of scatter so much better than other eyepieces, they would be worth the price? I've never viewed through one and perhaps if I get the opportunity I should pass on it.

 

I just don't understand the concept but I suppose if you can easily afford to buy one, cost is not a factor.



#22 Starman1

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Posted 28 August 2018 - 04:21 PM

The Ethos 3.7mm and 4.7mm are 110° eyepieces, so yield a huge field.

Even at the 3.7mm magnification (493x in my scope), I have 45-60 seconds between nudges.

And since they're sharp to just about the edge, I can let the object drift all the way across the field and still see a sharp image.

You don't need the field to see the object, merely to watch it for a while without having to move the scope.

 

But they're not just good for planets, though they work well for that.

I use them for double stars, very small planetary nebulae (especially this), the Moon (small crater details), and small globular clusters.

In a non-driven dob, seeing a sharp, in-focus image for the entire width of the field is worth the extra price.

I tried my 3mm Delite the last time out, and though it, too, was sharp across the field, the smaller field required a lot more scope nudging.


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#23 Joe1950

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Posted 28 August 2018 - 05:12 PM

See Don. You know the topic inside out. I never thought of that aspect. Trying to follow an object with a 45° Ortho at high magnification is certainly difficult, even with a quality EP.

 

The largest FOV I've ever looked through is 82-84°. So 110° or more is hard to imagine.

 

Very good, Don. Thank you.



#24 Hipoptical

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Posted 30 August 2018 - 09:44 PM

Very good report Hipoptical! You've touched on several key points about the eyepiece world.

 

I certainly would likely have the premium brand name telescopes and eyepieces if possible. And I actually have deep pockets. Just nothing in them. grin.gif

 

At my stage in the hobby and in life, having a comfortable yet quality view is important. So, the Paradigms/BST StarGuiders/Etc... fill the need and are within my range. Plus, I use scopes that are on the smaller size and a huge heavy eyepiece throws everything out of whack!

 

Very good. Enjoy the views. Oh and I must agree with you on the Vite Aspheric 10mm. I have one now for the 10mm gap you mentioned and it is an extraordinary piece, especially where it's priced. On the other hand, the 4mm version of the same kind didn't work out for me at all. 

 

All the best!

joe

 

Thanks. This is a little update. 

 

I posted this yesterday if you want a reference to what I'm about to share:

https://www.cloudyni...sale/?p=8802179

 

Tonight was a clear night. The seeing was not as great as yesterday - it kind of fluctuated, but it was still excellent. I only concentrated on the moon. 

 

In that previous post I just linked to I said how impressed I was with the Morpheus 17.5mm, especially when barlowed at 1.5x to give about 11x mag. But all that changed tonight when for the first time I plugged in my ES 68* 24mm, with the ES focal extender giving me effectively 12mm. 

 

Incredible. Another level of clarity again. The whole field was in focus. The contrast was 'night and day'. Jaw dropping. I've waited for a night like tonight to really be able to compare. 

 

The view in the Morpheus is excellent. But I don't think that bit off the Shorty Barlow (for the 1.5x trick) is really doing it full justice. Maybe it's a bit too long of a focal length. I don't know. But it wasn't as perfect a view as the ES 24mm with ES FE x2. I didn't know what I was missing last night. 

 

I'd really like to try that Morpheus with a higher quality 1.5x barlow - perhaps it might be better quality. But still, I'm not complaining, it was a very good view. Just not as outstanding as the ES 24mm doubled up.

 

I've heard there is a bit of FC with this EP in fast newts (I have a 6" f5). Maybe just looking at the moon is not the best way to test this, and besides, I'm totally new to this so I probably wouldn't know what it was even if I saw it. I'm learning though.

 

But the real revelation, the real star of the show tonight was the Paradigm 12mm. If the ES 24mm was great, then the Paradigm was easily comparable to it. No faffing about with barlows or extenders - just plop it in the slot for a jaw dropping view. The atmosphere was coming and going but there were moments of almost perfect seeing along with moments of serious 'boiling'. I hope I got that right. You probably know what I mean. I always assumed a clear cloudness night would give perfect viewing, but obviously that is not the case. Yeah, I'm a noob!

 

I pulled out just about every EP in my box tonight. I even tried the Paradigm 3.2mm. It was just on the edge of being very usable and pleasing and a little bit annoying to dial in to the zone. Just on the edge. But well worth it still. I enjoyed the little glimpses it gave me of details of the moon.

 

I tried the 8mm Paradigm as well. That just about filled my whole view. 

 

And to quickly answer your question BarrySimon615, the 'gap' between a 12mm and 8mm (at least in these EP's) would be just about at the edge of what would be a great view. The 12mm could fill the field a bit more, the 8mm fills it a bit too much - just talking about viewing the moon here. A 10mm would be ideal and good to have for different sizes of moon, seeing conditions, even the mood I'm in when viewing. Not very scientific I know, but I'm totally new to this. Thanks for your post though, I'm going to read it in detail. 

 

I even whipped out my Meade UWA 5.5mm 82*. There were some stunning details to be had with this as well.

 

All in all a great night's viewing. 

 

The two stars of the show were the ES 24mm 68* and the Paradigm 12mm. 

 

At the end of viewing I just wanted to check things with my 'standard' 15mm Paradigm, and yes, that was still holding its own to all the EP's I've mentioned. I even gave my trusty 17mm Sky Watcher Plossl a spin just for reference - yup, still looking good!

 

This is a thread about Paradigms, so that's why I thought I'd just chime in with my very naive viewpoint. I'm sure I've made a lot of mistakes and am doing a lot of things wrong. But maybe this is an interesting perspective to all you old hands from that of an absolute beginner. 

 

I think I realised tonight that I probably do have a bit of 'redundancy' with all the EP's I have bought. But that was the whole point: to work these details out by hands on practicality. I may end up selling a few EP's, then again, I might just keep them. 

 

When I really work out what I really like and what works for me, I'd like to buy one really outstanding EP just for the hell of it. An expensive Tele Vue or something contemporary. But for now I'm just experimenting. And sharing my findings to other noobs that might be tuning in. 

 

You can buy 4 Paradigms for the cost of a Morpheus here in the UK. A total noob might want to skip the 3.2mm and get one of the longer focal lengths like 18mm or 25mm (iirc) instead. With a half decent barlow (such as the Shorty I have - no complaints), that would pretty much have you covered. In my humble opinion. When I get my Tele Vue x2 barlow I'll be able to see what I've been missing I'm sure. But for a newcomer, I think it holds up well. 

 

I'm also very pleased and happy about the quality of the ES 24mm 68* as well. That was really something else to behold. Who knows, maybe viewing my favorite star clusters it will look just as great to my eyes, or I'll start noticing the dreaded FC, without a Paracorr to correct things. 

 

I can only say what I see, but I get that some things when seen can not be 'unseen'. I'm not in any rush to find fault. It will find me I'm sure. 

 

But all I know is if you only had 40 quid to spend on an EP to view the moon, and you couldn't afford the 220 quid (approximately) it would cost you to buy an ES 24mm plus ES x2 FE, then you would be in no way disappointed. At least in my telescope with my eyes anyway. I just hope these great views hold up with all the other things I want to observe in the night sky (with these particular EPs). 

 

Another bonus was they did not dew up like my Sky Watcher Plossls. But then again, they only cost 20 quid. 

 

For the money, I'd have to concur that the Paradigms are just about the best bang for the buck you can get. In my limited experience. 

 

I won't be parting with any of my Paradigms. And I might just get the other ones in the set (buying in 'bulk' to keep the cost down) just because I love them so much. 

 

I still want to get that ES 52* 10mm when it comes out. But I decided that I won't get the 20mm version, I'm probably going to buy one of my last 'high-end' EP's for now and get the ES 20mm 68* instead. The 24mm and the 16mm are truly excellent. I really do have to check that one out as well to see if it compares. 

 

I could live quite happily with just my ES EP's and Paradigms for now (and even then there would be some redundancy as well).

 

 

EDIT:

I also must say that the ES 24mm 68* didn't really take well to being x2 barlowed. I think someone mentioned this before (plus I know longer focal lengths don't tend to barlow so well iirc). But it was crystal clear with the ES x2 FE. Really excellent. I've barlowed the 16mm 68* and that seemed to respond a lot better, but might as well just use the FE if you have it. 


Edited by Hipoptical, 30 August 2018 - 09:51 PM.

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#25 Barlowbill

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Posted 31 August 2018 - 02:19 PM

Hipoptical, allow me to comment on my expirence with Barlows.  You mentioned you were going to get a Tele Vue 2X Barlow "to see what I've been missing".  I have, in the past, stated on CN that I am a Barlow Idiot.

At one time I had five.  I gave a (Dakin Barlow) to my brother-in-law (because he is Saintly!).  I own an unbranded shorty 2X (which might be my best one), an Antares 2X TL (Canada), an ES 2X Focal Extender (China), and a Tele Vue 2.5X (Japan).  The unbranded (wish I could remember where I got it) is 2 1/2" tall and "Fully Multi-Coated.  The Antares is 3 1/4" tall and quite light-weight.  The ES is a behemouth weight-wise and is 4" tall.  The Tele Vue is nice and slim but is 4 1/2" tall.  That's rediculously tall.  Stick a 32mm Plossl in it and I have a 6 1/2" champagne flute for an eyepiece!  I don't believe the Tele Vue is any better than the rest of my flock.  I have tried all of them in daylight at objects 1/4 mile away and don't think the Tele Vue is any better than the rest, day or night.  In truth, I think Barlows work fine when viewing conditions are very good.  Only.  In mediocre seeing conditions, not so good.  Have a glass of champagne instead.      


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