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The New AP Stowaway is Coming Along

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#51 jay.i

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Posted 06 September 2018 - 10:22 AM

I agree he is prepping for some sticker shock perhaps. In a month or two we should know the pricing. I think it is safe to say they would sell at even $6k....just not to this individual!

Seriously though... let's not perpetuate the idea that $6k is an acceptable amount of money to charge for 92mm of aperture. I don't think it would sell well at that price. Yes, some people with a lot of money would buy them, but a lot of people would bow out, people who want to stretch for the ability to own such a finely crafted instrument. Wasn't Astro-Physics founded on the idea of bringing good optics to amateurs for much more affordable prices than the competition? I want to believe that the Christens wouldn't cheapen their brand by only catering to rich/affluent individuals. They should still price their instruments somewhat within reach of mortals.


 

#52 Bill Barlow

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Posted 06 September 2018 - 10:35 AM

I would think that if the price is much above $3500-$4000, AP won’t sell very many.   If it’s above $5000, probably can count the number on one hand.  I have never owned an AP scope, but not going to bankrupt myself to own one.  I am on the list, but I already own a very nice SV 90T Fpl-53 triplet.  So hoping for something around $3000.

 

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#53 daveCollins

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Posted 06 September 2018 - 10:45 AM

Here are some sales numbers for used Stoways:

 

  • $6,500
    • 12/23/2017
  • $6,500
    • 1/14/2017
  • $4,975
    • 2/1/2016

 

I think that based on these numbers, that the new scope could be $5,000 to $6,000 easily.


Edited by daveCollins, 06 September 2018 - 10:46 AM.

 

#54 flyingcougar

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Posted 06 September 2018 - 10:48 AM

It sounds like he's prepping us for a very high cost item.  It takes me "...several hours..." to test it, "...almost the same as the 130s...".  Pelican case, feathertouch focuser, special paint from Germany.  The last one is hilarious.  "Special paint from Germany."  "Used on Zeiss APQs".  How funny.  So what.  Powder coating will last forever and protect the tube from corrosion just as well, maybe better than "...special paint from Germany used on the Zeiss APQs."

 

I'm now guessing if it takes the same amount of time as a 130, and all of these special items are added, final price $6000.

 

And I agree with the Rolex comment.  By the way, Rolex hasn't been hand assembling their watches for years.  They're now put together with machines just like the $20 Timexes.  I read an article of a Rolex aficionado who bought Rolex GMT, a watch I was considering, and disassembled it brand new.  The jewels were drilled off-center, the parts had burrs on them, etc.  Needless to say, I didn't buy it.  I bought a beautiful, hand-assembled Breitling. 

I received a hand-made Rolex many years ago for a graduation present and there is no comparison between it and an AP scope, the watch looks good but keeps crappy time! I bought a Timex so I could afford an AP scope.smile.gif

 

I'm with t.r. on the price guess at this point, $4K to $4.5K. Roland is the passion behind these scopes, and probably thinks very little about the pricing. Marj is the reasoning behind them and does think about the pricing.wink.gif


 

#55 Swanny

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Posted 06 September 2018 - 10:49 AM

But with this scope releasing I would think that the resale of those scopes would drop a bit. With more inventory out there available.
 

#56 Swanny

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Posted 06 September 2018 - 10:49 AM

But with this scope releasing I would think that the resale of those scopes would drop a bit. With more inventory out there available.
 

#57 Traveler

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Posted 06 September 2018 - 10:49 AM

If all the metioned prices are true, i am glad am I not at this party...tongue2.gif


 

#58 Swanny

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Posted 06 September 2018 - 10:55 AM

If all the metioned prices are true, i am glad am I not at this party...tongue2.gif


I am still of the $4500 price point guesstimation.
 

#59 t.r.

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Posted 06 September 2018 - 10:59 AM

I agree we are being prepped for sticker shock and a justification for the coming asked for price. It is what it is...but I'll take the AP over a Rolex any day!
 

#60 jay.i

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Posted 06 September 2018 - 11:15 AM

Here are some sales numbers for used Stoways:

 

  • $6,500
    • 12/23/2017
  • $6,500
    • 1/14/2017
  • $4,975
    • 2/1/2016

 

I think that based on these numbers, that the new scope could be $5,000 to $6,000 easily.

As partly collectors' items, it's no surprise they're priced that high. Those were before the introduction of the new Stowaway, so people were still under the impression they were relics of an age gone by. I would expect resale prices on the old ones to drop a little, and I would also expect the new ones to come in significantly (not drastically) under those prices.


 

#61 HARRISON SCOPES

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Posted 06 September 2018 - 11:29 AM

These are expertly made air spaced triplets in limited numbers by one of the top telescope makers in the world. Optically and mechanically they are likely to be the best available.

They will not be cheap but in 5 years you are more than likely not going to have any depreciation to worry about, not many telescopes can offer that financial bonus.

Oh and nobody has to buy one! I think we all can agree he won't be left with any spares...that in itself should say it all.

Edited by HARRISON SCOPES, 06 September 2018 - 11:30 AM.

 

#62 CSG

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Posted 06 September 2018 - 01:00 PM

The lack of knowledge regarding how Rolex watches are made is as astounding as someone who would spend $5000-6000 for one of these scopes.  Rolex watches are not made on an assembly line as posited by one member with little knowledge of Rolex and while they are not finished like a Patek, ALS, etc., they cost significantly less and are remarkably robust by comparison.  They are probably the most accurate mechanical watches available.

 

It's fine to whine about Rolex (like I am about Roland and his business) but let's try to stick to facts. 

 

https://www.ablogtow...-makes-watches/


Edited by Chris Greene, 06 September 2018 - 01:01 PM.

 

#63 SandyHouTex

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Posted 06 September 2018 - 03:09 PM

These are expertly made air spaced triplets in limited numbers by one of the top telescope makers in the world. Optically and mechanically they are likely to be the best available.

They will not be cheap but in 5 years you are more than likely not going to have any depreciation to worry about, not many telescopes can offer that financial bonus.

Oh and nobody has to buy one! I think we all can agree he won't be left with any spares...that in itself should say it all.

And in five years they'll still be the size of a Questar.  3.7 inches.

 

And not to stroll too far off topic, but since I was personally attacked I feel a need to respond.  The rolex article cited above by people who don't work for rolex and admit that rolex doesn't share what they do, and under item 3, 2nd paragraph, it says that machines basically assemble the parts.

 

Oh, and I loved the first one, they use steel that's hard to machine because it looks better.  I almost peed my pants laughing on that one.  No normal stainless steel, which is what they use, is difficult to machine.

 

And I will say no more about current day rolexes.


 

#64 Chris Cook

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Posted 06 September 2018 - 03:19 PM

$4295


 

#65 kkt

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Posted 06 September 2018 - 03:22 PM

Here are some sales numbers for used Stoways:

 

  • $6,500
    • 12/23/2017
  • $6,500
    • 1/14/2017
  • $4,975
    • 2/1/2016

 

I think that based on these numbers, that the new scope could be $5,000 to $6,000 easily.

It's nice to have some data for our estimates!  But even better would be production cost data, rather than what collectors pay for scopes that few people expected to be produced again.  My starting point would be somewhat lower than the retail price of the GTX.  Somewhat smaller and somewhat less expensive glass, but comparable labor and comparable cost of the tube, focuser, and case.  I don't expect Roland to work for free on the Stowaway any more than he did on the GTX, but I don't think he's gouging his customers either.


 

#66 starcam

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Posted 06 September 2018 - 03:52 PM

Update on facebook

https://www.facebook...gQE&__tn__=kC-R

 

Company 7 still has the original price up.


Edited by starcam, 06 September 2018 - 04:04 PM.

 

#67 ZX12

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Posted 06 September 2018 - 05:32 PM

I'm surprised no one has posted the projected price for the 92mm Stowaway that Marj Christen was telling people at NEAF this year.  (They hope to keep it around 3K)

 

I don't think it's a secret since she told me quite willingly when I asked.

 

If nothing has changed in that projection, I believe most potential buyers will be in for a pleasant surprise unless they decided not to sign up...

 

Mike


 

#68 jay.i

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Posted 06 September 2018 - 06:28 PM

I'm surprised no one has posted the projected price for the 92mm Stowaway that Marj Christen was telling people at NEAF this year. (They hope to keep it around 3K)

I don't think it's a secret since she told me quite willingly when I asked.

If nothing has changed in that projection, I believe most potential buyers will be in for a pleasant surprise unless they decided not to sign up...

Mike


Oh, that would be splendid... Not gonna get my hopes up now though when the official price is coming so soon.
 

#69 Alan French

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Posted 06 September 2018 - 06:28 PM

Unless you need an observatory in a small box, the Questar has been made obsolete by modern apochromats. A quality 90mm apochromat will provide better, more detailed high power views than a 3.5-inch Questar and also provide wide field, low power views not possible in the Questar.

 

Clear skies, Alan 


 

#70 Paul G

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Posted 06 September 2018 - 06:35 PM

It sounds like he's prepping us for a very high cost item. It takes me "...several hours..." to test it, "...almost the same as the 130s...". Pelican case, feathertouch focuser, special paint from Germany. The last one is hilarious. "Special paint from Germany." "Used on Zeiss APQs". How funny. So what. Powder coating will last forever and protect the tube from corrosion just as well, maybe better than "...special paint from Germany used on the Zeiss APQs."

I'm now guessing if it takes the same amount of time as a 130, and all of these special items are added, final price $6000.

And I agree with the Rolex comment. By the way, Rolex hasn't been hand assembling their watches for years. They're now put together with machines just like the $20 Timexes. I read an article of a Rolex aficionado who bought Rolex GMT, a watch I was considering, and disassembled it brand new. The jewels were drilled off-center, the parts had burrs on them, etc. Needless to say, I didn't buy it. I bought a beautiful, hand-assembled Breitling.


He has used that paint before, said it had thermal properties other paints and coatings do not. Just one example of how refined his scopes are.

Love my Breitling!

In an earlier thread it was noted that the price of the original Stowaway indexed for inflation is around $5k. He'll easily sell every one he makes regardless of the price.
 

#71 Chesterguy1

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Posted 06 September 2018 - 10:14 PM

The lack of knowledge regarding how Rolex watches are made is as astounding as someone who would spend $5000-6000 for one of these scopes.  Rolex watches are not made on an assembly line as posited by one member with little knowledge of Rolex and while they are not finished like a Patek, ALS, etc., they cost significantly less and are remarkably robust by comparison.  They are probably the most accurate mechanical watches available.

 

It's fine to whine about Rolex (like I am about Roland and his business) but let's try to stick to facts. 

 

https://www.ablogtow...-makes-watches/

20 years ago, my father was seeing a patient, a woman (princess) from Saudi Arabia as her own SA doctors refused to treat her and brought her to the US.  She had cancer that was untreatable and yet her son gifted my dad two (his/her) gold Rolex watches (not sure the exact model).  My dad passed away last year and  my two brothers are in a friendly argument as to who will get the watches.  Me, I’m happy with my solar atomic Casio and am more than willing to collect 1/3 of the agreed to value from one of them.  A dealer valued the pair (watches, not brothers) in excess of of $25K a couple of years ago.  My parents are not ostentatious and only wore them once or twice before putting them into a safety deposit box.

 

Based on their longstanding history I’m sure the new AP will be a fine refractor, but I will happily stick with my 1998 Vixen 90 mm Fluorite even with its fidgety single speed focuser.  Both watch and refractor companies have their devotees with good reason, I’m just not one of them—although I’d be more tempted by the Stowaway because it would get used and where am I going to wear a Rolex?

 

Chesterguy


 

#72 CSG

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Posted 06 September 2018 - 10:44 PM

Well, I wear my stainless Rolex sport watches in my little town here in Idaho.  I suspect few people even know what they are.  My Sub is 18 years old, never serviced, looks about new, and keeps time within a second a day.  My GMT is 16 years old, same condition but runs about 4 seconds a day fast.  I can live with that. ;)  Solid gold Rolexes don't hold much appeal for me personally but you gotta love that big hunk of gold.  I would guess you have the Day-Date models (day of the week on top, date at 3).

 

I'm sure the new Stowaway will be a fine scope but because of how I was treated all those years ago by whoever it was on the phone I talked to at AP, I'll try my best to get along with my TV-85 instead. ;)  I doubt I could see much of a difference between them (through the ep) anyway.


 

#73 nicknacknock

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Posted 06 September 2018 - 11:05 PM

I'm surprised no one has posted the projected price for the 92mm Stowaway that Marj Christen was telling people at NEAF this year.  (They hope to keep it around 3K)

 

I don't think it's a secret since she told me quite willingly when I asked.

 

If nothing has changed in that projection, I believe most potential buyers will be in for a pleasant surprise unless they decided not to sign up...

 

Mike

Mike,

 

Music to my ears laugh.gif


 

#74 Starhawk

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Posted 06 September 2018 - 11:33 PM

A 130 mm lens is thicker as well, so it's more glass than that, but the probability of defects is volumetric in nature, so the rejection rate for 130mm blanks will be much higher than 92mm blanks.

 

-Rich

 

A 130mm lens is 2x the surface area of 92mm. I would expect more than an 18% price discount (6000/7300). The Pelican case candidate (Air 1525) is $168 so it's not like it's going to add $500 to the cost of the setup. I wouldn't call myself a lemming but any price under $5k  I will likely buy it. It would be my first so you can't really say it's collecting. Still, it's an exorbitant amount of money to spend on such a small telescope.


 

#75 t.r.

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Posted 07 September 2018 - 08:43 AM

You know, it's kind of ironic that Rolex would enter into this discussion...back story...

Last year, when I turned 50, I had promised myself a Rolex to celebrate both age and career. I was so sick, that my birthday came and went without so much as a card and I simply put the purchase on the back burner. Then, back in April I was on the hunt for an air portable apo to take with me on trips and use at home as grab and go. I had settled on the TV 85 when out came the AP announcement at NEAF for the Stowaway. I got on the list in hours and gave up on the TV for the past months waiting for word on the Stowaway. About a week ago, I decided to follow up on a promise I made when I turned 50 and buy myself my first Rolex, the new Air King. Made the appointment with the AD for this weekend and then right on cue, AP interrupts my budgeting plan and announces pricing and notification to follow! Gives me pause for my watch purchase. While one has nothing to do with the other, spending that much at the same time just makes me shake my head?! Regardless of the hype, hoopla or horsechit, these two brands, Rolex (Breitling too) and AP do belong in the same context IMHO though. And this buying spree is a good conundrum to have!

Edited by t.r., 07 September 2018 - 09:13 AM.

 


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