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More Messiers through 60mm refractor

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#51 Rustler46

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Posted 07 April 2019 - 01:17 AM

Thanks Norme. Of course, the colors are a little bit exaggerated. Even on those stars, on which I dared to put the color in the final sketch, I had to concentrate quite a lot to make sure of the observed color tone. Some fainter stars had colors too, usually one second they seemed to be bluish, another second reddish.

Your sketches are quite inspiring, Alexander! I have noticed the same effect you mention. When observing some double stars the color of a medium bright star will switch from blue to red, so that I'm not sure what color to call it in my notes.

 

What program do you use for your computer work on the eyepiece sketches? I have an old Photoshop Elements 2.0 and Lightroom 5. But I working on getting Gimp. I've heard some good reports on the latter program.

 

Edit:

I see on your April 4th post the procedure you use with Photoshop Elements. This should be quite useful for me.

 

Keep up the excellent work! 

 

Best Regards,

Russ


Edited by Rustler46, 07 April 2019 - 01:32 AM.


#52 Sasa

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Posted 22 April 2019 - 04:22 AM

Last night I took out something larger (82mm refractor) as my main targets were two galaxies M98+M99. Here is result of almost one hour sketch. I started already at late twilight because I wanted to be done before rise of Moon. M98 was very elongated, larger powers revealed  tiny rounded brighter core. The body was brighter along its western edge. M99 was very interesting, already at 42x I suspected an arm on the northern edge. The sketch exaggerate the arm visibility, It took me a while to figure out, how it was attached to the main body. There were two more brightenings south of core, one was probably an illusion due to nearby very faint star, second one seems to be another arm visible on images:

 

m98_99_20190421.jpg


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#53 N3p

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Posted 22 April 2019 - 01:46 PM

Very nice sketch log of M98 and M99. I think I'll try to look at them tonight, especially if you saw hints of an arm on M99 qith 82mm aperture, I want to give it a shot.

 

Thanks



#54 frank5817

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Posted 23 April 2019 - 02:40 AM

Alexander,

 

Both of these galaxies look very good especially the individual close up.

 

Frank :)



#55 Sasa

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Posted 24 April 2019 - 02:19 AM

The day after I took out just 60mm FOA-60Q because the night was quite windy. This time I spent much less time on observing an sketching, in two hours session I managed to draw 4 Messiers and to observe few more targets. The result is not so polished, also the number of details is quite small. Surprising was slightly odd shape of M85. There was something (brightening and/or tip) on NW edge. In case of M68, I was just able to see the target barely with concentrated averted vision. It is too low, and the city sky is quite bright near horizon.

 

m100_20190422.jpg

 

m85_20190422.jpg

 

m49_20190422.jpg

 

m68_20190422.jpg


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#56 petmic

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Posted 24 April 2019 - 02:38 AM

Great sketches! I was trying to observe M100 last few weeks with 100mm achromat but all could see with averted vision was a very dim shapeless smudge (at best). M85 was even worse - I couldn't say it was there. How dark is the sky where you observe?



#57 Sasa

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Posted 24 April 2019 - 12:36 PM

Great sketches! I was trying to observe M100 last few weeks with 100mm achromat but all could see with averted vision was a very dim shapeless smudge (at best). M85 was even worse - I couldn't say it was there. How dark is the sky where you observe?

Thanks Peter, my sky is nothing special, I live in small town (20k citizens) at the edge of 1.5 million people city (Prague). Actually not far from you. Our backyard is relatively dark corner but there are very close (~60m) railway lamps (much brighter and positioned my higher than usual street lamps). My sky is usually 4.5-5.0 mag, during summer I can see brighter parts of milky way near zenit.



#58 Sasa

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Posted 28 August 2019 - 04:06 PM

I was not sketching objects from Messier list for a while. Couple of days ago, I tried to capture subtle beauty of globular cluster M15. It was very bright in 82mm refractor at power of 41x. I immediately noticed subtle light blue color, the color went away with more time spent at the eyepiece. I could repeatedly observe the color after short break in observing, may be it was real then... I also noticed colors of two brighter stars:

 

m15_20190823.jpg


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#59 frank5817

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Posted 28 August 2019 - 08:26 PM

Alexander, Nice sketch of M -15. You captured that bright core very well. That  6th mag blue star to the East of M15 is a blue/white star for certain HR 8231.

Well done.

 

Frank :)



#60 Sasa

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Posted 01 September 2019 - 03:55 PM

Thanks Frank. Orange and blue stars make triangle with M15, not unlike M13, although here the stars are fainter and colors much subtle.

 

Here is another Messier from yesterday. It was fun to watch how the look of open cluster M52 was changing with magnification in small 60mm refractor. At the lowest power, 13x, it was basically smooth nebulosity with medium bright star at west edge. M52 looked more like globular cluster. Jumping to 29x brought first few vary faint stars from the nebulosity. At 177x (I had to test my newest eyepiece, DeLite 3mm), the nebulosity was basically gone, instead of it I counted (and sketched) more than 20 very faint stars. I also noticed colors of few brighter stars (including the dirty orange color of the star at M52's western edge). In most cases, I got about right color, however I saw two orange star (spectral K) as bluish...

 

I was looking for nearby open cluster Czernik 43. I sitll remember one magic night under darker skies, when M52 + Czernik 43 looked in 110mm refractor like a twin cluster. From our light polluted backyard and in 60mm, I could not see a trace of it in smaller magnifications.

I even did not try to spot Bubble Nebula. May be I should next time. So far the smaller diameter that I saw NGC7635 was with 110mm. Who knows, may be 60mm is enough.

 

I was not able to match the background sky brightness between various magnifications. Digital images of my sketches are not good enough, and there are background artifacts that start to show up if I play with the level curves too much.

 

m52_20190831.jpg


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#61 frank5817

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Posted 01 September 2019 - 06:05 PM

Alexander,

 

Nice sketches here. Czernik 43 should be close to the south east, just not transparent enough. I was unable to pick out the Bubble neb. with a 6 incher under good sky conditions from a dark site.

You do very well with these small apertures. I suspect you have very good eyesight too.

 

Frank :)



#62 IMB

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Posted 01 September 2019 - 09:26 PM

I'm amazed at your work. Such a treasure trove!



#63 Chiron0224

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Posted 06 September 2019 - 09:49 AM

Here is an update on M31. I was observing it again under better conditions. Still from our backyard but this time I could easily see M32 and M110 already at 13x which was not the case of the first night. At 44x I saw few more details. Southern edge of bright central core was ending more sharply, I guess there is some dark line. Also a little bit further away, there was another brighter line (arm?). Unfortunately, I could not see prominent dark lines north of the core.

 

I was checking sketches on web. I found only one with this brighter edge at south and I found no one on web with the further southern arm, except drawing from O'Meara in his Messier book. Definitely I'm looking forward trying this nearby galaxy under dark side:

 

 

m31_20180908.jpg

 

You're spot on about the hard edge.  Here in my sketch you can see that it is in fact a dust lane.

AndromedaGalaxy M31 M32 M110
 
I'll often identify dust lanes more by "feel" than by seeing them necessarily.  Like "It feels a bit more solidly and sharply defined on this side.  Like a hard edge" and sure enough, that's the dust lane.

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#64 Mrniall

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Posted 06 September 2019 - 10:36 AM

Here is another Messier, this time from yesterday's night. Final image was made directly out of the sketch made by eyepiece, not redrawing the stars in computer. That's why it made it before two more Messier objects from previous night. Sky was quite bad, haze and thin clouds. Therefor I picked up M29 as it should not be that affected by those conditions:

 

m29_20180906.jpg

M29 is my next target in the 60mm - this drawing is invaluable thanks!


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#65 azure1961p

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Posted 07 September 2019 - 03:19 PM

Last night I took out something larger (82mm refractor) as my main targets were two galaxies M98+M99. Here is result of almost one hour sketch. I started already at late twilight because I wanted to be done before rise of Moon. M98 was very elongated, larger powers revealed  tiny rounded brighter core. The body was brighter along its western edge. M99 was very interesting, already at 42x I suspected an arm on the northern edge. The sketch exaggerate the arm visibility, It took me a while to figure out, how it was attached to the main body. There were two more brightenings south of core, one was probably an illusion due to nearby very faint star, second one seems to be another arm visible on images:

 

m98_99_20190421.jpg

Alex,

 

Really, congrats on the arms of M99!!!  That's a decent catch.  This past spring I observed the pair from in town and I got fleeting detail in 98 but 99 was more challenging so I used it as a requiring point for 98 to pass through again.  I know it's a challenge to get those arms and times with the 8 under a mag 5 sky it was a total failure. Again, 98 to the rescue.  

 

The blue you got in M15 is peculiar. I see it too with the 8 and it's not because I look for it, far from it. Indeed that blue comes to me and surprises when it does in it's conspicuousness - and then, like your experience, it too vanishes like it was never there.  Now I've talked to other observers, one with a 16" and they saw if anything they see a yellow or slightly warm red view.  And true to fact, measurements photometrically show those older red Giants - and to be sure, the blue members too.  

 

My theory then, Alex, is this...

 

 Small to medium aperture - we see the blue stars (collectively)  (for real not just illusion) but it takes a bigger aperture to show the red because our night vision does not favor it at all.  So in effect you need the extra power of a big scope to overcome our red insensitivety.  The blue is real though - it just happens to fall into our sweet spot.

 

Funny because I DONT see that blue in M13 or M92. Just M15.

 

The haze you show accompanying the OCs, M37 being my fav is a necessary thing as that is our light sensitive rods revealing it's lower resolution which scatters the faint light Abit, hence the glow.

 

M11 was great. Saw that recently and beautifully so.

 

Pete



#66 Sasa

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Posted 07 September 2019 - 05:33 PM

Pete, seeing is too strong. I would phrase it more like "detecting" or "guessing" presence of the arms. As I wrote, it took me quite some time just for figure our how was the northern arm attached. I was quite surprised at home that I got it more or less right (you can consider the observation unbiased as I have not looked to images of M99 before the observation, and I did not know what should I expect).

 

As for M15 bluish color, I saw it too for M13 (in 63mm Telementor at power of 16x). I found  a remark about globular cluster colors in O'Meara's Messier book. If I remember well, he stated that he saw in the case of few brighter cluster (M5 and M13?) yellowish centers and bluish outer parts. When I noticed the blue color in M13 for the first time, I was not looking for it neither. I just simply noticed it. In case of M15, it was similar. I just looked at the eyepiece and I was immediately taken aback by the bluish tint. I'm still not sure that it is real. This could be caused by many things, for example strange color of eye adaptation (because I have nearby orange sodium lamps everywhere where I look), eyepiece, etc. I still remember the night when I was testing new TMB mono 16mm versus CZJ O-16 on the Moon. When I switched the eyepieces from O-16 to TMB, Moon got very strong violet color which went out in about 10 seconds. I guess it was AWB (automatic white balance) made by my brain. Switching from TMB to O-16 made the Moon strongly yellow...



#67 Sasa

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Posted 07 September 2019 - 05:37 PM

M29 is my next target in the 60mm - this drawing is invaluable thanks!

Good luck Mrniall. BTW, this particular sketch was made through 82mm refractor. You will see probably less stars.



#68 azure1961p

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 09:23 AM

Alex, 

In small and medium apertures , seeing , detecting and such are familiar terms.  Over time though you get that extra sense for what's spurious and what's real, even when it's really thin.  But even if I had a mega scope I'd still be going for detecting and guessing at the fringes.  It's the spirit of the pursuit and the reward of the elusive finds of course.

 

Pete



#69 azure1961p

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 09:27 AM

Besides Mars, I was also sketching few Messiers last night. Here is the first one, M11. This  time I kept separately low power and high power sketches, not trying to combine them into one. Both offered beautiful views. At low power, nearby 4 bright stars west from M11 were showing very vivid colors, one reddish, one yellow/orange, and two blue stars. There was some haze going in and out. I could see how it sometimes washed out the colors. In clear moments, the colors were very strong.

 

M11 was nothing but a small comet like nebular patch around brighter star. It became more alive at 62x, there were more stars and the whole surface was grainy:

 

m11_20180905.jpg

And I forgot what a real Jewell this one is.  I ignored it for decades as it seemed everyone mentioned it and it was *too easy* .  But that was wrong.  With deep breathing, averted scans and such - wow this thing comes alive and through it all as you've shown that fan of starry haze bathing it all.  Again, a repeated thanks for this view Alexander.

 

Pete


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#70 frank5817

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Posted 11 September 2019 - 08:00 PM

Alexander and others very fine sketches here.

 

Frank :)




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