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Lunar South Pole and extreme Southeastern Limb under maximum libration

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#1 Tom Glenn

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Posted 09 September 2018 - 03:03 AM

I wanted to share an analysis that I did on some images taken on July 20, 2018.  The moon was not very high in the sky at this time of year, but the libration was near maximum for observing the Southeastern limb and polar region, with a sub-Earth point of -6.8S, 7.5E.  This allowed me to see farther South and farther East than I ever had before in this region.  These occasions are few and far between (when factoring in weather, etc), so I am unsure when I will ever get the same view again.

 

I will post two annotated images that I took with my C9.25 Edge HD telescope, followed by two 3D views generated using LRO data that give a more overhead view of the area with some of the features seen in my images.  Finally, I will post an image of the entire moon at this phase, and will provide a link for the full resolution image.  The annotated images below are of decent quality, although the necessary compression may have caused some minor degradation, so you can always go to the full resolution image if you want another look, although that image is not annotated and is in a different orientation.  

 

Following is my brief summary of the highlights of the images:

 

Image 1-

 

The crater Shackleton, containing the South Pole, is visible.  Numerous craters are visible in the polar region that are typically difficult to see, including Amundsen, Hedervari, Idel'son, Idel'son L, and Ganswindt.  On the left side of the image is the crater Hale, which shows good interior detail, despite being centered at 91.7E longitude.  Beyond Hale, on the extreme limb, is the crater Rittenhouse (-74.2S, 107.1E), which is entirely on the far side (depending on how we define "far side").  Ganswindt, Idel'son and Idel'son L are also located entirely on the far side of the 90E longitude line.  The extreme limb beyond Ganswindt and Idel'son forms the outer rim of the Schrodinger basin.  There are numerous peaks visible on the horizon, and at first I thought some could be central peaks within Schrodinger itself, but after doing extensive analysis of LRO images and 3d models, I'm nearly certain that everything visible is merely on the rim.  One would need additional help to see inside Schrodinger.  It is tantalizingly close, however.  Beyond Shackleton and Idel'son L, there is a ridge that I identified near the far side crater Wiechert.  I put a label on Wiechert, but this is probably not 100% certain as it gets very tricky to identify features that far out.  However, I think the placement is very close.  This crater lies about 175km to the north of Shackleton on the far side.  

 

Image 2- 

 

This image picks up where the first one left off to the Southeast, with craters Hale and Rittenhouse on the right side.  The region along the limb is notable because it is in the general vicinity of Vallis Schrodinger, which is a striking valley oriented radially to the Schrodinger basin.  Like in the previous image, there are several identifiable craters that lie completely on the far side of the 90E longitude line, including Chamberlain, Chamberlain H, Moulton, Wexler E, Wexler H, and Rittenhouse.  Although identification is not easy in these locations, thanks to interactive LRO maps that let you change the angle I feel fairly confident about the IDs.  The are several peaks on the horizon, beyond Chamberlain, one of which I tentatively mapped to the approximate coordinates of -57.7S, 108.1E, which is on the rim of the crater Priestley, although there are several other possible peaks in the area so this ID is not 100% certain.  

 

Interestingly, I'm fairly certain I am able to detect some features of Vallis Schrodinger, and I noted these on the image.  The valley runs directly through the crater Sikorsky, which is slightly Northeast of the crater Wexler E, and would be on the extreme limb in this image.  The bright albedo feature that I indicated appears to be an unnamed crater on the eastern rim of Sikorsky.  The floor of Sikorsky is slightly below this level and therefore shielded from our view.  Slightly to the left of this region, I indicated what I think is a region of the actual Vallis Schrodinger that is just barely detectable.  One would never be able to assign this ID just from this image of course, but when looking at LRO data the features do seem to match up very closely.  

 

Of course I was interested to see how these views compare to others taken from Earth.  One difficultly is that most images are not labeled or described completely, and so Google searching for many of these craters does not give any amateur images.  However, as the South Pole is a popular region to image, I was able to find multiple examples of images showing this same region under strong libration, and even some that include the crater Rittenhouse (although it was never labeled as such).  However, the region on the Southeastern limb near Vallis Schrodinger is not a particularly popular location for most imagers, and so I did not find any images that show quite the view that is seen above.  So if anyone knows of some comparable images of the region taken from Earth, I would appreciate any information to that end.  Thanks, and of course any comments are welcome.  

 

 

Image 1- South Polar Region

 

 

Lunar_South_Pole_TG.jpg



#2 Tom Glenn

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Posted 09 September 2018 - 03:04 AM

Image 2- Southeastern Limb

 

 

Lunar_Southeastern_limb_TG.jpg



#3 Tom Glenn

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Posted 09 September 2018 - 03:05 AM

LRO image relevant to image 1.

 

 

LRO_Northern_region.jpg



#4 Tom Glenn

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Posted 09 September 2018 - 03:07 AM

LRO image relevant to image 2-

 

 

LRO_Vallis_Schrodinger.jpg



#5 Tom Glenn

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Posted 09 September 2018 - 03:11 AM

The complete moon at the time, very near first quarter.

 

Click the link below for the full resolution image (7000x10,000 pixels):

 

https://c2.staticfli...4ecb1cc54_o.jpg

 

 

Moon_072018_TG_small.jpg



#6 aneeg

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Posted 09 September 2018 - 05:36 AM

Outstanding images, Tom!

A a solid proof of an excellent scope and owner.

 

Arne



#7 astrolexi

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Posted 09 September 2018 - 07:35 AM

This is great!

 

Thank you for the detailed summary and the amazing images!

Best wishes

Klaus



#8 Tom Glenn

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Posted 09 September 2018 - 02:40 PM

Thanks Arne and Klaus for the kind words.  



#9 kraterkid

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Posted 09 September 2018 - 03:34 PM

Excellent images to a superb analysis and commentary Tom. Thanks for sharing this rare view of the extreme south eastern polar region.



#10 John_Moore

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Posted 09 September 2018 - 04:17 PM

Agree with Rich, and the other contributing comments above - what views to amaze waytogo.gif

 

John Moore


Edited by Jayem, 09 September 2018 - 04:19 PM.


#11 Tom Glenn

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Posted 09 September 2018 - 11:11 PM

Thanks Rich and John.  I enjoy making these figures, so I'm glad if others are enjoying as well.  



#12 Tom Glenn

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Posted 13 September 2018 - 03:49 AM

I'm adding another image that shows the same region, but on a different date, and this corresponds to approximately one day of advancement of the terminator from the previous images.  The longitude of the terminator in this image is -7.7W, compared to 3.6E in the first images.  The libration is less extreme, but still favorable for viewing the South Pole, at -3.9S in latitude and 5.1E in longitude.  

 

Although many of the polar features are still visible in this view, the several degrees difference in libration produces a different vista.  Shackleton is still visible, but this time it is very near the limb without much behind it.  Amundsen, Hedervari, and Hale are all still visible on the limb, but without the same level of interior detail as before.  Notably, there is no sign of Rittenhouse, Ganswindt, Idel'son, or Idel'son L, all of which were visible at maximum libration.  The terminator has moved enough westwards to reveal Moretus, and the eastern rim of Clavius (although no interior details are yet illuminated).  Near the pole, the rim of de Gerlache is now visible, as are several mountain peaks, including Malapert mountain.  

 

Malapert mountain has over 7000m of relief above the interior of Malapert crater.  This is a truly remarkable change in elevation in only about 30km distance.  The combination of high altitude and extreme latitude near the pole means that the summit is exposed to sunlight approximately 90% of the time (although interestingly, my first image at the beginning of this post shows an example of the 10% when it is not exposed).  The summit is also within a line of sight of the lunar South Pole, and Earth remains continuously in view to an observer here.  This makes the summit of Malapert mountain an interesting target for potential communication transmitters for future lunar bases near the South Pole.  Furthermore, the backside of the mountain is in Earth's radio shadow, and regions of Malapert crater are in perpetual shadow from the sun, making it a potential sight for optical and radio telescopes.  All of these make the region very interesting for potential exploration.  

 

South_Pole_052318_TG.jpg



#13 Joe Eiers

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Posted 22 September 2018 - 02:50 AM

Your images are stunning, to say the least.  Some of the sharpest, if not the sharpest I've seen.

 Wow.

  You need to keep posting! 

  I imagine these were the result of thousands of video snaps, yes?  Love to see your workflow.

  The commentary is also excellent and a big contribution to our group.  

  Thanks,

   Joe



#14 dgg99

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Posted 22 September 2018 - 01:04 PM

Tom, impressive images and excellent, very detailed explanation. Especially the last one, that allows to see more in the area of the south pole. And the complee Moon image is stunning!

The area around the south pole is one of my favourites to observe under favourable libration. I like especially the view at full Moon, when it is somewhat easier to identify the complicated topography. Some years ago I took this image under such conditions with my 120mm refractor. I was able to identify Shoemaker and Shackleton (the last one only later in the image, not while observing visually). The x is the location of the south pole in the rim of Shackleton, and the star is the impact site of the LCROSS probe, which detected water and other volatile compounds in the impact plume. For reference, the peak I labelled as alpha is Malapert Mountain in your image.

 

8011633609_02fb253216_o.jpg

 

Thanks for sharing! Keep the good work!

 

Diego



#15 Tom Glenn

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Posted 22 September 2018 - 01:21 PM

Your images are stunning, to say the least.  Some of the sharpest, if not the sharpest I've seen.

 Wow.

  You need to keep posting! 

  I imagine these were the result of thousands of video snaps, yes?  Love to see your workflow.

  The commentary is also excellent and a big contribution to our group.  

  Thanks,

   Joe

Thanks for the nice comment Joe.  There are many people out there that produce excellent lunar images, some of whom contribute every so often to the solar system imaging forum.  I am fortunate to have favorable weather for this type of imaging, and so I am able to get pretty good images despite not having a huge scope at "only" 9.25 inches.  Although you will find images taken with larger scopes under good conditions that have slightly higher resolution, my camera has a wide field of view so I am able to put together fairly large panoramas, which I enjoy.  

 

These images are fairly labor intensive.  The starting points for the images above were video files of 4000 frames each.  Of these 4000 frames, 1000 were selected and stacked to produce the raw image, which was then sharpened using deconvolution.  At this point the image is edited in Photoshop to adjust the exposure and finally add the annotations.  The processing itself is many hours of work, and in this case the annotations added several more hours to try and identify coordinates on the limb.  When processing large files that cover the entire moon, I can easily spend several weeks on and off playing around with the data before I am happy with the final product.  There are some additional details buried within the conversations that accompany these posts that I have made previously on the imaging forum:

 

https://www.cloudyni...ns-of-interest/

 

https://www.cloudyni...-edge-asi183mm/



#16 Tom Glenn

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Posted 22 September 2018 - 01:22 PM

Tom, impressive images and excellent, very detailed explanation. Especially the last one, that allows to see more in the area of the south pole. And the complee Moon image is stunning!

The area around the south pole is one of my favourites to observe under favourable libration. I like especially the view at full Moon, when it is somewhat easier to identify the complicated topography. Some years ago I took this image under such conditions with my 120mm refractor. I was able to identify Shoemaker and Shackleton (the last one only later in the image, not while observing visually). The x is the location of the south pole in the rim of Shackleton, and the star is the impact site of the LCROSS probe, which detected water and other volatile compounds in the impact plume. For reference, the peak I labelled as alpha is Malapert Mountain in your image.

 

Thanks for sharing! Keep the good work!

 

Diego

Thanks Diego for the comments, and for adding your image!  I also really like this region of the moon with the rough terrain and high mountains.  The mountains are really quite staggering in height, having more relief over their surrounding valleys than peaks in the Himalaya.  


Edited by Tom Glenn, 22 September 2018 - 01:24 PM.


#17 Jim Curry

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Posted 24 September 2018 - 06:14 AM

Impressive work Tom.  Thanks.

 

 

Jim



#18 Paul Hyndman

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Posted 26 September 2018 - 11:35 AM

Great pics, Tom.

 

Your limb images would be prime candidates for an old Photoshop function called "3D Transform". It allowed placement of an image onto a "wireframe grid" to rotate and further scrutinize outlying features, and was a hoot to use. Alas, it has been dropped from current iterations.



#19 Tom Glenn

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Posted 12 July 2019 - 04:41 AM

I wanted to update this thread with a few interesting maps that I have made.  This directly relates to Paul's comment above about how it would be fun to transform the images.  Through discussions on the solar system imaging forum, I have found that a program typically used for planetary imaging (Winjupos) can also prove quite useful on the Moon.  Since this relates more to imaging than to visual observing, I may post a more detailed account on that other forum in the near future, but for the sake of continuity, I wanted to put a few preliminary maps here because the data used to generate the maps is the same that was shown at the beginning of this post.

 

The first map is a stereographic projection of the south polar region.  The South Pole can be seen in the lower left, where the meridians converge on the rim of Shackleton.  The grid lines are all in increments of 15 degrees, and I have marked a few of the lines.  The central meridian is directed towards the top.  I have spot checked the latitudes and longitudes on this map, and despite not being quite as accurate as the LRO maps, it is remarkably accurate, with an error of only a few tenths of a degree or less in most places, with somewhat more than that near the extreme limb and pole.  From the map, you can clearly see the effects of the southern and eastern libration, as many features on and beyond the 90E meridian near the South Pole are clearly visible.  

 

The second map is a Lambert equal area cylindrical projection.  In this map, you can appreciate the strong eastern libration, as many features beyond the 90E meridian are visible, much more to the south than the north, due to the southern libration.  Notably, there are a collection of maria visible on the limb.  Mare Humboldtianum is slightly visible to the north, while Mare Marginis and Mare Smythii are visible in their entirety.  In the south, most of Mare Australe is visible.  Click for larger sized images.  

 

South_polar_projection_TG.jpg



#20 Tom Glenn

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Posted 12 July 2019 - 04:42 AM

Lambert_projection_TG.jpg



#21 cpsTN

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Posted 13 July 2019 - 01:07 PM

Fantastic images. What software do you use to print the names on over the image?



#22 Tom Glenn

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Posted 13 July 2019 - 01:35 PM

Fantastic images. What software do you use to print the names on over the image?

Thanks for the comments, Charles.  In the first two images that have all the crater names and arrows, those were constructed using a combination of Adobe Photoshop and Illustrator.  Photoshop is used for all of the photographic editing, such as cropping, rotating, adjusting the size, and exposure corrections.  However, Photoshop is rather cumbersome to use when it comes to making labels, especially if there are a lot of them.  Illustrator is far superior at this, as it was specifically designed for creating figures.  So I export the image from Photoshop to Illustrator, add the labels, and then export it back into Photoshop to resize for final posting.  The maps above were created in Winjupos, and the coordinate grid system comes from that program.  This original photographic data was now collected almost exactly a year ago, and it is still providing me with many hours of activity.  Altogether, this has consumed an extraordinary amount of time (all fun though!), so I'm glad if others can enjoy looking at it too.  I'm especially intrigued with the rendering of "far side" features that are not often seen from Earth.  I will post more updates in the future, but I've basically confirmed that there are elements (although highly distorted) of the crater Sikorsky and Vallis Schrodinger, which I can't find other evidence of in existing photos from Earth.  I'm also impressed with the rendering in the polar projection of features along the 90E meridian and just beyond. 




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