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put your stars on a diet

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#51 BillP

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Posted 17 September 2018 - 01:02 PM

For me, most double stars are pretty, but not all that exciting. For me, the exciting and interesting ones are those that are hard to see in the telescope I'm using at the moment. I've always liked to see hard and difficult objects, simply because of the challenge, and doubles can present extreme challenges that doesn't require dark skies to observe, but require extremely good seeing instead. The better the scope, the more you can push it to the limits and if you're really skilled and your scope unusually good, you can often go beyond what is normally considered the limits of the aperture. Objectively speaking, it is of course nothing more than pointless bragging, but it makes oh so much fun to do! grin.gif

 

Not pointless bragging but just wearing your observer's  "skill" badge...and of course yes, can be a lot of fun pushing limits.  At least pushing the performance limits of a scope does not have the life threatening aspect of pushing the motorcycle or aircraft ... so practice "safe" limit pushing by using telescopes lol.gif  I remember when I first got my 10" scope I was all into pushing the limits splitting the tightest doubles to its theoretical limit, observing craters on the Moon to its theoretical limit, etc.   Then, after a while of doing that I just completely lost interest in making my observing "work".  Now I enjoy doubles if there is something inherently aesthetic about them for me (realize that that there are probably zillions of qualities that others feel makes things "aesthetic" that each of us may not share), or there is something astrophysically interesting going on with the double that I know from reading.  Fun to catch a peak of something that is doing something unusual or extreme even if can't view it directly -- looks sedate or boring to eyeball, but mind's eye sees what's really going on there!


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#52 Jon Isaacs

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Posted 17 September 2018 - 03:42 PM

The other side of the coin:

 

Daniel likes those aesthetic views with his fancy apo refractors.. But life is not all peaches and cream.  I come from Rod Mollise's "Never met a telescope I didn't like" observing school.  Appreciating the view, the telescope for what it is, regardless of how perfect or imperfect it is, I can enjoy that.  Two recent examples;

 

- Splitting Castor with a 62mm F/5 Cometron achromat.  Castor should be easy with a 60mm, even a fast 60mm but this one is definitely a comet hunter and not a double star scope.  It's got a cemented objective that has serious issues, it's difficult to describe, even consider what combination of aberrations causes such on-axis views. At 60x, on-axis it's like the edge of the field in a fast Newtonian without a coma corrector with a inexpensive 2 inch widefield.  A mess.

 

But somehow, there in all that junk were two dots that were indeed Castor.   It's like finding a diamond in the swamp.  

 

Now a half decent ST-80 makes a beautiful split of Castor and does a decent job on the double-double.  

 

- Last night I had the 22 inch F/4.4 out and I was just messing around after sunset, the real observing would begin at midnight after the moon set.  Antares was at about 20 degrees elevation, the seeing wasn't that great and the scope was still cooling.  But for laughs I pointed it at Antares and slipped the 8mm Ethos in the focuser for 350x.  What a boiling mess.  But with a little focusing there was the companion, a nice dot and despite the far from perfect primary star, it was a wide split, plenty of gap better the messy primary and the sharp companion.  

 

That started me thinking about just how small that Airy disk must be for this mess to be so small.   I calculate that the diameter of the Airy disk to the first minima is 0.50, the radius is 0.25", the spurious disk is even smaller.  That means there's a lot of room there for a mess and still have some sort of resolution.  Of course the brightness factor makes the mess seem worse than it is.  

 

A little math tells me the companion is about 0,8 magnitudes dimmer in the 22 inch than the primary would be in an 4 inch. 

 

Not a beautiful split but I don't think a 4 inch would have managed it.

 

Jon


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#53 rolo

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Posted 17 September 2018 - 05:25 PM

Pretty much any scope is well suited for doubles, it just depends on the double or whatever object is best suited for a particular scope. A  good 4" scope is more than capable for all types of observing. I got up at 4 am this morning(rough night) to look for Comet 21P/Giacobini-Zinner. After being unsuccesful with a pair of 10x50's and 11x80's I decided to take out the TV102. First I took a peak at M35 with the 20mm Nagler and what a lovely view! Then went in closer with the 11mm Nagler and it was even better! The stars filled the fov with varying color of pinpoints and the background was much darker than with the 20mm. The higher magnification framed it nicely and reduced the sky glow significantly.

After a quick scan with the 20mm (44x & 1.8* fov) there it was 21P! Pretty small with a bright core and short a tail. It also improved with the 11mm (80x & 1* fov) and darker background than the 20mm.Spent the rest of my 30 minute session in Orion feasting on M42 and nice multiples with both the 20mm and 11mm nags. Of particular interest and beauty was Sigma Orionis. Very nice in the 20mm then worked my way down to the 5mm for a tight well resolved view. This is a nice and easy one at any magnification!

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Edited by rolo, 17 September 2018 - 05:33 PM.

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#54 JimP

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Posted 17 September 2018 - 08:26 PM

I love doubles for the aesthetics. My smaller scopes do a fine job.

 

I love fine detail on the Moon and planets because that puts me in touch with the 19th Century Astronomer in me.

I search the Lunar surface for and report new uncatalogued Lunar Domes along with my friend Raf Lena. I observe Mars and think about Antoniadi, Lowell and what 19th c and early 20th c astronomers were thinking. Jupiter reveals a wealth of detail in my TMB 8” F/9 apo. I collect old/rare astronomy books and maps and greatly enjoy comparing my observations of the Moon and planets with astronomers who sat at the eyepiece looking at and recording fine detail with their scopes in the 19th century. Not work, all fun.

 

Different scopes for for different results. I do not regret buying any of the scopes I have, small or large.


Edited by JimP, 18 September 2018 - 10:30 AM.

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#55 rolo

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Posted 18 September 2018 - 07:08 AM

I love doubles for the aesthetics. My smaller scopes do a fine job.

 

I love fine detail on the Moon and planets because that puts me in touch with the 19th Century Astronomer in me.

I search the Lunar surface for and report new uncatalogued Lunar Domes along with my friend Raf Lena. I observe Mars and think about Antoniadi, Lowell and what 29th c and early 20th c astronomers were thinking. Jupiter reveals a wealth of detail in my TMB 8” F/9 apo. I collect old/rate astronomy books and maps and greatly enjoy comparing my observations of the Moon and planets with astronomers who sat at the eyepiece looking at and recording fine detail with their scopes in the 19th century. Not work, all fun.

 

Different scopes for for different results. I do not regret buying any of the scopes I have, small or large.

I love the old classics for that 18th century feel. Ocsasionally, I'll take out the 2.75" Bardou and Sons refractor from approx 1860. No diagonal, no fancy eyepieces, no coatings,and no drive. I've been impressed with what it can do, specially on the planets. Someday to hope to find a nice Alvan Clark...


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#56 Kunama

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Posted 18 September 2018 - 06:34 PM

I love doubles for the aesthetics. My smaller scopes do a fine job.

 

I love fine detail on the Moon and planets because that puts me in touch with the 19th Century Astronomer in me.

I search the Lunar surface for and report new uncatalogued Lunar Domes along with my friend Raf Lena. I observe Mars and think about Antoniadi, Lowell and what 19th c and early 20th c astronomers were thinking. Jupiter reveals a wealth of detail in my TMB 8” F/9 apo. I collect old/rare astronomy books and maps and greatly enjoy comparing my observations of the Moon and planets with astronomers who sat at the eyepiece looking at and recording fine detail with their scopes in the 19th century. Not work, all fun.

 

Different scopes for for different results. I do not regret buying any of the scopes I have, small or large.

 

Well said Jim waytogo.gif

Eleven years ago I was lucky to get to look through Galileo's scope in Florence and wondered what he would think of our banter about apertures, colour correction, Strehl etc....

Some of my favourite and most memorable astronomy moments in the last decade have been looking at the Moon, Jupiter and Saturn through this c.1880-90 3.25"F15 brass refractor:

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Edited by Kunama, 18 September 2018 - 06:39 PM.

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#57 Ed D

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Posted 18 September 2018 - 09:10 PM

Last night I was observing a few doubles with my AT72ED, such as Albireo, Mizar & Alcor, and the Double Double.  Tonight I was observing the same doubles with my 60mm f/15 Meade, a cheapo achromat made in Taiwan which I believe was made in the 1980s or early 1990s.  Conditions were comparable over the two nights.  Also, I live in an area with extreme light pollution.

 

First, I noticed that a lot of the doubles appeared more distinct in the 60mm f/15 achro than the 72mm f/6 ED, and the dimmer stars stood out better, such as the four visible stars in Mizar & Alcor.  Second, whereas it took much higher power to distinctly see a split in the Double Double with the 72mm f/6, I could see the distinct split with much less magnification in the 60mm f/15 achro.  My guess is that the 60mm, having less light gathering, gave a darker background that made it easier to see the stars in my light polluted environment.

 

On an opposite note, it was harder for me to see the dimmer secondaries in Eta Cass and Polaris, both of which are well inside a brightly lit part of my sky.  Here, a bit more aperture helps.

 

Oh, how I wish I would have bought one of Richard Day's 60mm f/16+ Skylight achros years ago when I had the opportunity.  However, my little cheapo Meade is a good performer.

 

Ed D


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#58 Ed D

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Posted 18 September 2018 - 09:19 PM

I know this discussion is primarily about observing doubles, but I have to mention my observations of Mars and Saturn tonight.

 

On Mars I was using my 8mm Vixen NPL Plossl (112.5x) and I could see Utopia and Hellas, as well as other neighboring dark areas.  The polar cap was also distinctly and easily visible.

 

With Saturn I preferred the 10mm Vixen NPL Plossl (90x).  I could relatively easily make out different banding on the planet disk.  The Cassini Division was not so easily seen, but it was evident, as were the A and B rings.  With the 8mm eyepiece the disk banding was a bit blurred and less distinct.  One thing that surprised me was that using the 32mm Plossl (28x) I could clearly see Saturn as a planetary disk with the ring system, tiny, but very distinct.

 

Ed D


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#59 Daniel Mounsey

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Posted 20 September 2018 - 09:12 AM

Lovely post Dan. I have said many times, the most beautiful view of doubles I have ever had was with a Quantum 4, a 4” Maksutov. Gorgeous views. Nice crisp airy discs, beautiful colors. Lots of Questar 3.5 scopes out there which would do the same. I like my larger aperture refractors observing the Moon and planets but have an AP 130 F/8.35 on the way specifically to observe doubles. I might try an aperture mask on occasion just to see what results I get. Any thoughts on producing aperture masks that pose no risk to the objective lens?

 

Tuesday, September 18, I will have been observing for 50 years.

 

Good job Dan!

 

Jim,

Thanks for the kind thoughts. Yes I do have a few suggestions. I would consider aperture masks of 100mm, 80mm, 65mm, and 50mm for example depending on brightness of the stars you go after.

 

https://www.edmundop...aphragms/11621/

 

The less costly option is Baader's AstroSolar adjustable filters. Simply remove the solar film and it can fit into the dew cap just fine. I also contacted Joe at Astrozap about doing something like this for observers. 

 

http://www.alpineast...mping-range.pdf

 

http://www.alpineast...rvation.htm#BSF


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#60 treadmarks

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Posted 20 September 2018 - 01:17 PM

Well, that was an interesting thought. And here I was thinking magnification was the culprit. This would explain why, in my recent observations of Pleiades, I found myself preferring the view in my 63mm binoculars to my 102mm refractor. Even when I popped in a 40mm EP in for 16X, very close to the binocular's 15X, the binoculars still showed the blue star colors better.

 

I never understood why people would say they prefer small refractors (60-70mm). It makes a lot more sense now. I'm still underestimating the effects of seeing. I might also guess that smaller exit pupils leads to more pleasing, darker sky backgrounds but they don't need to sacrifice FOV as much to get to that exit pupil. Never considered small exit pupils could be a good thing. Maybe the next time I take my refractor out, I'll try the mask.


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#61 Daniel Mounsey

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Posted 20 September 2018 - 02:51 PM

Another way to see the airy disk in larger apertures is to pump up the magnification, but sometimes the seeing doesn't allow it. 


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#62 Daniel Mounsey

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Posted 20 September 2018 - 04:37 PM

PS Please lose the "Pop a Cap" phrase.

 

Agreed, but that's to imply the astronomical crowd just needs to lighten up a little. 

http://www.abc.net.a...5728_948392.jpg


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#63 Jon Isaacs

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Posted 20 September 2018 - 05:44 PM

Well, that was an interesting thought. And here I was thinking magnification was the culprit. This would explain why, in my recent observations of Pleiades, I found myself preferring the view in my 63mm binoculars to my 102mm refractor

 

 

Viewing the Pleiades, I find the nebulosity shows up better in a larger scope. 

 

Jon


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Posted 20 September 2018 - 05:50 PM

Viewing the Pleiades, I find the nebulosity shows up better in a larger scope. 

 

Jon

Not for me - I have found the nebulosity shows up better when I do 2 hours of driving into the mountains.


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#65 BillP

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Posted 20 September 2018 - 07:50 PM

Viewing the Pleiades, I find the nebulosity shows up better in a larger scope. 

 

Jon

 

I find the cluster is by far the prettiest in binoculars.


Edited by BillP, 20 September 2018 - 07:52 PM.

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#66 BillP

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Posted 20 September 2018 - 08:11 PM

... but that's to imply the astronomical crowd just needs to lighten up a little. 

 

Ain't that the truth!!  It is, after all, just an activity done regularly in one's leisure time for pleasure (i.e., hobby). 


Edited by BillP, 20 September 2018 - 08:13 PM.

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#67 Sasa

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Posted 21 September 2018 - 03:57 AM


On Mars I was using my 8mm Vixen NPL Plossl (112.5x) and I could see Utopia and Hellas, as well as other neighboring dark areas.  The polar cap was also distinctly and easily visible.

 

Ed, you mean something like that?

 

https://www.fzu.cz/~...0908_1925UT.jpg

 

As for doubles, I can enjoy them in many telescopes. From wider ones (like nu_12 Draconis) to very tights ones. Aesthetically, they are more pleasing in small telescopes if they can crack them, as Daniel was pointing out in this OP. What I like in particular is trying to find/push my limits and I try to observe pairs below Dawes limit as well. It is obviously easier in small telescopes. These can be thrilling views as well. I still remember the very first night with my Zeiss AS110. I pointed it to lambda Cygni not knowing what to expect. I saw beautiful textbook image, two overlapping Airy discs, the smaller one being a little bit more blueish and half-buried. I got similar thrilling view of mu Cygni in my 63mm Telementor. BTW, three nights ago I was observing 36 And (6.1+6.5, 1.15'') in 60mm apo (FOA-60Q), I saw clearly a tail on Airy disc at PA~320deg. In this case, I was able to recognize double star that is at about 60% of Dawes limit.


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#68 Ed D

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Posted 21 September 2018 - 04:26 AM

Ed, you mean something like that?

 

https://www.fzu.cz/~...0908_1925UT.jpg

Yes.  That is very close to what I was observing.

 

Ed D



#69 Daniel Mounsey

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Posted 21 September 2018 - 07:53 AM

Ed, you mean something like that?

 

https://www.fzu.cz/~...0908_1925UT.jpg

 

As for doubles, I can enjoy them in many telescopes. From wider ones (like nu_12 Draconis) to very tights ones. Aesthetically, they are more pleasing in small telescopes if they can crack them, as Daniel was pointing out in this OP. What I like in particular is trying to find/push my limits and I try to observe pairs below Dawes limit as well. It is obviously easier in small telescopes. These can be thrilling views as well. I still remember the very first night with my Zeiss AS110. I pointed it to lambda Cygni not knowing what to expect. I saw beautiful textbook image, two overlapping Airy discs, the smaller one being a little bit more blueish and half-buried. I got similar thrilling view of mu Cygni in my 63mm Telementor. BTW, three nights ago I was observing 36 And (6.1+6.5, 1.15'') in 60mm apo (FOA-60Q), I saw clearly a tail on Airy disc at PA~320deg. In this case, I was able to recognize double star that is at about 60% of Dawes limit.

 

Now, this is the kind of spirit I admire. waytogo.gif


Edited by Daniel Mounsey, 21 September 2018 - 07:53 AM.


#70 AndresEsteban

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Posted 23 September 2018 - 09:08 PM

I gotta pop a cap in this thing once and for all. In-light of this recent thread https://www.cloudyni...ral-refractors/ I decided to do this "visual" experiment over the course of the past couple of nights with a few of my observing buddies, DarrenT, David Person and mikona who are also members here on CN. I wanted to gather their opinions to see if they agreed or not and overwhelmingly they were blown away at the results. This is very common knowledge among many seasoned double star observers, yet there's still an astonishing amount of experienced observers who are still under the impression that larger aperture is literally "always" better and that concept just blows me away. I have noticed that whenever I discuss this in the double star forum, many observers understand it and really get it, yet whenever I post this in the refractors forum, It's almost always met with skepticism.

 

To me there are many myths in astronomy like, how important it is to have dark skies, yet 80% of where I enjoy my observing is in light polluted skies. For example, Alvin Huey and Don Pensack love to observe faint fuzzies and I totally get that. If I was into faint fuzzies more, I'd use a big Dob and find the darkest skies possible to see them. We all know that term "clear skies". Read any of my posts and you will rarely ever see me write "clear skies". My signatures almost always read "steady skies" because most of what I care about is steady air. I absolutely despise bad seeing with a passion. I'll take light pollution just fine, but I absolutely dread bad seeing because everything I love to observe relies heavily on steady skies. Just recently, I was viewing double stars in a really dark sky. At higher magnifications, I actually found it slightly annoying because it makes it harder to frame carbon stars and double stars in the center of the FOV because I can hardly see the field-stop of the eyepiece which I use to frame stars. I totally get it if others want their dark skies, but they're really not needed for everything observers look at and I think there's still a countless number of observers who still don't really quite understand this concept. I often keep ambient lights around me in the yard which are kept on constantly while I'm observing the solar system, Moon and certain stars and that's how I prefer it for several reasons which I've shared in other threads. There are some advantages to these methods and some disadvantages. I know that's hard for countless observers to believe, but it's true.

 

But, let's get back to those useless smaller apertures so many others are convinced of. Have a look here. How could anyone use a petty 3" telescope? It's not big enough you say, but that's just really bad information when someone gives you that impression. If anything, it merely reflects their own lack of personal experience on what a small lens is actually capable of showing them.

 

https://www.cloudyni...telescope-r1874

 

So, let me put this in bold letters so it's actually more clear. There are many instances where increased aperture is actually a hindrance to images. I have a 60mm, 90mm, 102mm, 128mm, 152mm, 250mm. There are countless targets the smaller 60mm refractor will literally and clearly outperform all of the larger apertures. I've sometimes asked myself why Burnham's Celestial Handbook has been such a goldmine to me over these past 25 years and I've come to realize it's because Burnham gave so much attention to individual stars. Robert Burnham Jr. was a 20th century jewel. It's a companion with lists that read like this....

 

1.) LIST OF DOUBLE AND MULTIPLE STARS
2.) LIST OF VARIABLE STARS
3.) LIST OF STAR CLUSTERS, NEBULA, AND GALAXIES

 

When I read deeper into that, some interesting thoughts come to mind. The first thing is that I can observe categories 1 and 2 from the convenience of my light polluted skies perfectly fine. The only time light pollution is of a hindrance is if the targets are too faint, but don't forget, there are countless targets that are not too faint or unresolvable in smaller apertures which can be studied and observed. Still, many insist that astronomy isn't enjoyable unless it's under dark skies. For the vast majority of beginners who are primarily looking at showpiece objects like M13 and M31, of course darker skies help, but you have to remember that observational astronomy is not always about deep sky targets like those listed in category 3.

 

The late great Leslie Peltier who wrote "Starlight Nights" observed over 100,000 variable stars said this about his 6" and 12" achromatic refractors. "Each telescope has its own particular sphere of usefulness. Each one can perform its own specific duties much better than could the other one, so there is really no cause for any rivalry between the two and I, for my part, have always done my best to insure domestic tranquility by alotting them equal observing time". Those were the words of a very wise and extremely experienced observer, so if anyone tells you aperture is a must, ask them if they've ever observed 100,000 variable stars before.

 

Okay, so let's get back to this aperture thing, shall we? You have a few options. You can take one large refractor and use a couple of different aperture masks as if you had several refractors of different aperture, or if you don't feel like lugging out a big scope and masking it down, then set up a 60mm achromatic or ED lens or a portable 80mm lens. I assure you, you will have a blast if you know what you're doing. The problem is many observers don't understand what targets look best in certain apertures because they're probably just into deep sky showpiece objects and are not familiar with this. The other problem is knowing the limits of your telescope and this is also where the problems stem from. Another issue is countless observers have the incorrect perception that every double or multiple star you want to see has to be the tightest double. Ahhhhhh..... I gotta have a telescope that splits the tightest doubles obtainable and that means its a better telescope for doubles. If you think that, then you're missing the boat. Let's just do some basic stuff. We'll just use the common Dawes limit. 4.56 divided by your aperture in inches.

 

2" aperture 2.2"
5" aperture .9"

 

Okay, set your parameters for your 2" telescope. Select doubles that are about 3 arc seconds or more. Just select doubles that are above or close to the Dawes limit of any aperture. Also, for a 2" or 3" glass, select brighter doubles like 0 to 8th magnitude that are typically your showpiece doubles. I used my FS128 which comes with a dust cap that has about a 2" aperture opening that simply unscrews from the center of the cap. The target chosen for this demonstration was Alpha Hercules "Rasalgethi". Here's some info on this double. We looked at about two dozen showpiece objects but I'm just using this one for explaining this. There are many more.

 

http://www.perezmedi...ves/001394.html

http://stars.astro.i...rasalgethi.html

 

For this comparison we used 104x and 173x with a 10mm and 6mm Ortho and my 1.25" Tak prism diagonal. Seeing looked pretty good but not great because we were in the valley. At 128mm full aperture, Rasalgethi appeared like the images you see here in Pickering 4 and 5. The two stars also looked a bit over exposed, so the colors did not appear as distinct as we would have desired or have seen in the past. In other words, they were slightly washed out from the seeing. The separation and magnitude of these two stars is also within the grasp of each aperture. I then placed the small mask over and the differences were incredible to say the least. Several things changed and I let the guys decide what they liked after we all compared the two images.

1.) With the 2" aperture applied, the airy disks looked larger and clearly more distinct due to the decrease in resolving power. At 5" aperture, the airy disks appeared smaller, brighter, noisier like Pickering 4 and less colorful.

2.)  At 2" aperture, all the scintillating was clearly reduced. The brighter component looked like Pickering 8 and 9 while the secondary component looked like Pickering 10 in fact we could only see a very slight diffraction ring around the primary while the secondary was nonexistent altogether. In other words, just two textbook pinballs that looked absolutely breathtaking.
3.) All of us overwhelmingly agreed the colors were clearly more obvious and distinct in the smaller 2" aperture and less over exposed looking like they were at 5".
4.) mikona was especially in awe at this because he was not aware that this is what happens when you reduce aperture for many double stars. mikona also has a SkyWatcher 120ED and when I came over to explain what we were doing, he realized that his telescope also has about the same size aperture opening which can easily be removed from the front dust cap. He later also swung over to Mizar and Alcor with the 2" aperture and dropped his jaw in disbelief at how beautiful and perfectly textbook the images looked.

 

This then taunts the next question. Many observers will swear stars are more colorful in larger apertures but that's not the only way works. There's a big difference between stars and extended objects like planets and planetary nebula for example. Certainly in those cases, the larger apertures will usually provide you with increased color contrast, but stars are another story. These points of light can often easily appear washed out or over exposed looking in appearance while reducing aperture increases and exposes the airy disk. This in turn makes the stars appear almost immune to some seeing conditions compared to larger apertures. The result is that you can see solid distinct disks with colors displayed more easily. This taunts another question still. Many observers will say that seeing affects apertures the same way. My suggestion is to cut yourself a cardboard aperture mask 80mm to 60mm from a cereal box and see for yourself and you be the judge. I hope others aren't stuck in bad weather, otherwise I'll probably never hear the end of their stat sheets.

 

Some of the guys laugh when I set up the tiny Takster which is about the size of a fetus, but I can tell you this much, I'll have a pretty good idea what I'm pointing it at and it's highly unlikely that whatever it is will look better in anything larger. Pick your mission and as with all things, everything is relative. Put aside your strong biases and check out some breathtaking showpiece doubles. For me, I love to see clean and crisp textbook images when I can. I'm happy to hear your impressions.

After reading your considerations and checking them with my own experience using my refractors and dobsonian I can only say:
I rest my case! bow.gif bow.gif bow.gif waytogo.gif waytogo.gif waytogo.gif waytogo.gif 
I totally agree with you!

Thanks for these insights Daniel! Long life for the mighty "small" scopes!

Regards and clear skies!
Andy
 


Edited by AndresEsteban, 23 September 2018 - 09:50 PM.

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#71 AndresEsteban

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Posted 23 September 2018 - 09:32 PM

Took me forty years of aperture fever to discover that none of the bigger scopes that came along put up a more beautiful view of some objects than my 76 f/12. Daniel's post makes the power of small instruments very clear waytogo.gif

 

My aperture fever has been cured by the beauty of the views offered by small quality scopes. I now appreciate both more: the small AND big scopes. Enjoying each for what they do best.

Couldn't agree more!  I own a vintage 76mm f/16.4 Dan Beam (circle K) achro and is the most used scope and always proving right on the spot even in adverse seeing conditions!
 

My 76mm f/16.4 vintage achromat. What a lovely scope! Always giving amazing images.
76.2mm (3-in) f/16 Dean Beam (OKKK), vintage refractor
 

In order to get the most of it and use modern 1.25" eyepieces, for example, plössls, Baader orthos and other designs with 60º or more AFoV, I changed the original position of the baffles in order to have a light cone ending at the focal plane with a focal area diameter of 27mm (1.25" eyepieces). Also flocked the inside tube with velvet and remove the focuser drawtube 28mm baffles.
76.2mm (3-in) f/16 Dean Beam (OKKK), vintage refractor
 
 
The original 6x30 finder is not bad but this beauty deserved a real good finder. A Celestron 9x50 RACI with illuminated reticle makes star hopping a real pleasure. And yes, I use paper printed star charts! Like the Skalnate Pleso Atlas of the Heavens. And Donald Menzel's "A filed Guide to the Stars and Planets", circa 1967. Other than these modding everyting is as it went out of factory 45 years ago. This achromat impresses me everytime I use it!

Celestron 9x50 RACi finderscope with base adapted to the acro OTA.

 

Regards and clear skies
Andy


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#72 Jon Isaacs

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Posted 23 September 2018 - 11:27 PM

Not for me - I have found the nebulosity shows up better when I do 2 hours of driving into the mountains.

 

An hour's driving is part of the equation unless you already happen to be in the mountains. 

 

Starsplitter Jstar Jewel Valley.jpg

 

Many objects have multiple personalities.  The Pleiades is one.  It can be a pretty cluster but under dark skies, it reveals much more.  M7 is another such object.  In a small scope, it is a gorgeous cluster but under dark skies with a larger scope, it reveals many hidden secrets, it's own private globular and more. 

 

jon

 


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#73 Redbetter

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Posted 23 September 2018 - 11:34 PM

Viewing the Pleiades, I find the nebulosity shows up better in a larger scope. 

 

Jon

 

Yes, it does.  This is particularly true of the texture/striations within.

 

Not for me - I have found the nebulosity shows up better when I do 2 hours of driving into the mountains.

 

That would be a disadvantage for the small scopes.  They tend to stay at the house when I go to dark sites, mostly in the mountains.  It is the big glass that makes the trip, and less often a refractor tags along.  The wider field of the refractors are great for giving full context, but detail in nebulosity is more apparent to me with larger aperture.

 

If I was to pick a myth to "pop a cap in" the oft repeated canard about assuming only little scopes go to dark skies would be high on the list.  My experience, both personal and watching what equipment others bring, suggests the reverse is more accurate.  The smaller gear is rarer at the dark sites.


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#74 leviathan

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Posted 24 September 2018 - 12:05 AM

Of course smaller aperture is less affected by seeing and atmospheric turbulence. But why to waste precious time under dark/steady skies with it ?


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#75 Daniel Mounsey

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Posted 24 September 2018 - 12:56 AM

Of course smaller aperture is less affected by seeing and atmospheric turbulence. But why to waste precious time under dark/steady skies with it ?

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