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What was it like observing in the 60’s?

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#76 rcwolpert

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Posted 21 October 2018 - 02:57 PM

Not much to add to what's already been said, except that I feel that amateur astronomy from 1960 to 1965 was quite different than 1966 to 1970, and I think that it was more than just my age difference. In the early 60's our astronomy resources were Sky & Telescope, Scientific American, Sam Brown's "All About Telescopes", and a few others.  Skies were beautifully dark, even on the south shore of Long Island where I grew up. Space was a wonderful mystery.  And it was great to come back inside after an hour or two with my 3" Space Conqueror or my RV-6 and watch some black & white TV with my parents.

 

In 1966 Burnham's Celestial Handbooks came on the scene, skies were a little brighter, the space program dominated the astronomy news, and some of the "mystery" was gone. Admittedly, in fall of 1967 I entered Case Western Reserve Univ to major in astronomy (later changed to physics), so that changed things, but I think that even without that, the later 60's were quite different than the early 60's.

 

Bob


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#77 chrysalis

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Posted 21 October 2018 - 02:58 PM

No internet, so it was you and your brain and the local library versus the universe.

 

Even the best astronomical pictures you could get hold of were still a little blurry.

 

You dreamed of maybe someday a 6" or 8" telescope.

 

You made old flea-market 120 box cameras into astrocameras with parts from A.E.Jaegers and Edmund Scientific.

 

In fact, you still MADE things for your telescope: setting circles, eyepiece filters, little telescopes.

 

FILM in analog cameras that you developed in the 120 degree darkroom converted from your parents' garage.

 

Wonderment at everything.

 

ONLY Sky and Telescope...no other astronomy magazine...and it was authoritative and much harder science / more serious than today, where the public's ability to think and be taught - even to maintain some level of attention - seems so much more limited than then. No need for screaming visuals or grabby and/or fantastical article titles or covers. 

 

A really nice eyepiece cost $3.50.

 

No Dobsonians yet (probably the only deficit versus today)

 

You dreamed that when you retired you'd have a 22" Celestron in your own observatory and fantasized you'd still have the stamina to stay up all night using it (I now know better...)

 

Adventure and heroism/courage were still virtues.

 

Going to a local planetarium was an awesome adventure for you.

 

Pilgrimage to Edmund Scientific in Barrington NJ (like, oh my goodness, 30 miles away!!!!!)

 

No chat boards...but if there were, they would not be predominantly about astrophotography with the latest electronic equipment or electronically assisted viewing. They'd be about what you saw last night.


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#78 stomias

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Posted 21 October 2018 - 03:12 PM

Born in 1959. Lived in Chicago but spent most of the summer at my grandparents place in northern Wisconsin. Spent many evenings/nights fishing. Always marveled at the night sky. grandparents had a pair of 8X40 Wollensak binocs that my brother and I put to good use. Had a couple of really cheap flimsy refractors. as a young teen. Throughout the 70's and 80's still looked up while "up north" but didn't really pursue the hobby. In 1985 I rekindled my interest and bought a SPC8 which has had lots of use in the last 33 years. More scopes, astrophotography.....balh blah blah. Learning the night sky was fun. Yeah, Sky and Tel, Tirions atlas, Nortons............I still have a couple of things my older brother procured in the late '60's, a correspondence with with Charles Pollard Olivier of the American Meteor Society including charts, and a really cool Zeiss catalog (1967) that had giant research grade telescopes and Boller and Chivens bling along with the Zeiss planetarium projectors that I marveled at at the Adler planetarium.....................


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#79 CHASLX200

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Posted 21 October 2018 - 03:25 PM

I was born too late. 1963.


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#80 EJN

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Posted 21 October 2018 - 04:05 PM

I got my first scope in 1967, a Tasco 66TE-5 (50mm f/12) when I was 10. I lived 15 miles from downtown
Chicago, and even then light pollution was serious although I didn't fully realize it at the time. As stated
in another post, it is difficult to overstate the effect the Space program had. Although my memories
of Mercury are vague, I was riveted by the Gemini and then Apollo flights.
 
I too drooled over the Cave & Unitron ads in S&T. I was fortunate that there was a store in
northwest Chicago, American Science Center (now American Science & Surplus) which stocked
just about everything carried by Edmund. I picked up the Edmund books there; Homebuilt Telescopes 
was a revelation. I built a pipe equatorial mount for the Tasco refractor, since "real" telescopes
had equatorial mounts.
 
I had a subscription to S&T for a birthday present, and the first columns I would turn to
were Gleanings for ATMs and Deep Sky Wonders.
 
In 1970 I made a 6" f/8 mirror at the Adler Planetarium optical shop (closed since the early 90's).
I still remember prices back then, $10 for the registration fee, $15 for the mirror grinding kit,
$10 for coating. I used Edmund parts, $9 for an aluminum tube, $9 for the finderscope, $12
for the focuser, and $50 (gasp) for the 1" shaft EQ mount. I later got the drive for the mount
for another $50.
 
I remember around 1971 when I got a barlow, and tried it on Saturn. The rings were close to wide
open, and I saw Cassini's division and the Crepe ring for the first time. I was blown away.
 
Being close to the city, I was still hampered by light pollution. What really was the breakthrough
for me was when I finally got the Skalnate Pleso Atlas Coeli and Burnham's Celestial Handbook.
 
I didn't own a car until 1978, and didn't find out about the local astronomy club until 1984, which
is also when I went to my first star party, Astrofest (Astrofest and it successor, Prairie Skies,

are now both defunct, a sign of the times).


 

I didn’t start till the 70’s but there was no internet, no forums, no 500 different brands of scopes and face to face conversation were more interesting than forums. Now every topic in refractors, reflectors and SCT’s and up in the same arguments and discussions about what scope is better. APO vs Achros, this vs that and it gets old. Same folks posting the same thing for years on end. A few times I’ve thought of quitting the forums altogether.


This really hits the nail on the head, and I feel strongly the same way. The huge amount of gear leads

to "analysis paralysis" for many, I keep seeing the same variations on topics over and over. Recently

there was another premium mirror vs. mass produced mirror thread started. Do we really need another?

There are like 500 already.

 

I never gave in to the ultrawide eyepieces fad, all my eyepieces are older Plossls, an Orthoscopic,

and even a couple of (gasp) Kellners. For me they are good enough. Call me a heretic.

 

The eyepiece forum reminds me of electric guitar players who are constantly swapping out pickups

in search of the elusive "perfect" tone.

 

The other thing which bothers me with "premium" gear is an element of snobbery, one-upmanship,

and the collectors mentality have crept into the hobby. I think some people buy premium scopes,

especially apos, just to look at them in their living room and tell themselves they are great amateur

astronomers because they own the best money can buy. Or to flip them. There is the example

of someone selling an AP Stowaway for $11K. Really? It's a nice scope but still only 92mm.

 

I really believe the 60's and 70's were much more about what you observed rather than the gear you had,

and as far as gear itself, there much more DIY, tinkering, and out-of-the box thinking. Often out of

necessity, but also because it was fun.

 

 

The other thing I remember is there were more clear nights (weather patterns in the midwest

really have changed). There was no eterna-cloud cover from November through March. Also,

summers weren't ruined by smoke and haze from all the forests out west going up in flames.


Edited by EJN, 22 October 2018 - 01:23 PM.

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#81 CHASLX200

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Posted 21 October 2018 - 04:38 PM

When i first got into the stars around 1975 till 77, i never knew there were astro clubs, Sky & Tele or telescope comp's or even you could buy eyepieces.  I thought i was all alone.


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#82 Sketcher

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Posted 21 October 2018 - 04:51 PM

Observing and sky, for me:  Pretty much the same now as it was then.  Saw the Northern Lights from home.  Observed my first Mars opposition.  Made sketches of Mars based on my views using a 65mm, cardboard-tubed, shaky, alt-az mounted refractor.  Used the same telescope for solar, lunar, and deep-sky observing.

 

Watched the space programs on small-screen, black-and-white TV:  Mercury . . . Gemini . . . the first Apollo missions.  Launched my own model rockets in the nearby horse pasture -- thanks to Estes.  Practiced/prepared for the highly-possible nuclear war.  I was unaware of the Cuban Missile Crisis as such -- but I was aware of some unusual things going on around me at that time -- preparations for the aftermath (assuming there would be one) of an imminent Soviet missile attack.  One might say:  "It was the best of times -- It was the worst of times."

 

Books were my friends.  I especially "devoured" everything I could get my hands on that pertained to astronomy, with space-travel and the physical sciences coming in a close 2nd place.  Usually they were library books, but once in a blue-moon I had enough money to buy a small book of my own.

 

But observing was observing -- the same now as it was then -- looking, manually tracking, taking notes, making sketches.  My "red LED" flashlight was a regular flashlight with the lens covered by as many layers of grocery bag paper as needed.

 

I started an Astronomy Club at my high school -- didn't care for any 'official' position in the club; but got voted in as president anyway.  We raised money via bake-sales to purchase a club telescope; but some things never change.  We had the ageless debate:  reflector or refractor?

 

Seriously, for myself, observing is the same now as it was then.  It's the social aspect that's changed -- I can be a hermit out in the middle of nowhere, yet be 'connected' with the greater astronomical community.  Oh, one other thing changed:  Traditional, visual, comet-hunting; but other than that, for me, it's the same now as it was then.


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#83 Geo31

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Posted 21 October 2018 - 05:07 PM

Now that you mention it, I have to agree Bob. I also graduated high school in ‘67 and started college that Fall. Everything was intensely different for me there after. And the wonder and innocence was largely gone. I recognize that, but it’s hard for me to determine whether it was the hobby or me. I really feel that in my case tho, it was probably me. My life just changed so much. After that, Astronomy was always there as a backdrop, but it wasn’t the same passion. I was passionate avout other things. Eventually it returned, but it was many years later and it was different. Ever since, there has always been a slightly melancholic nostalgia attached to it for me.

 

I certainly found going off to college a major change.  I never lost my interest, but never quite pursued it for a long time.  Life just got different.

 

I took 3 years off from my college career and my first semester back I took an astronomy class, figuring it would be EASY.  Hah!  Thankfully it wasn't hard for me, but I learned more about chemistry in that class than I did in HS chemistry (I remember thinking THAT is what that moron was trying to teach us for half a year - I picked it up in the first astronomy lecture).

 

Still, astronomy remained that interest that was always there, but just not quite acted upon.  When I moved to Houston 23 years ago, I worked with someone who is very prominent in the Houston Astronomical Society.  He and his wife took me to their dark sky location to see a bright naked eye comet.  Sadly, it was clouded over, but just as we were giving up, the clouds thinned enough that we could see the daggum comet through thin clouds.  He left the company and I lost touch and astronomy returned to something just beyond what I was pursuing.  Then, about 5 years ago we were planning a vacation in Utah and I bought my C8 because I wasn't going to Utah without a scope.  Shortly after I was told I'd probably be laid off.  There went the trip.  Turned out I wasn't laid off and from then on I've been active again.

 

But going off to college just changed things.  Interestingly, 3 of my good friends in HS majored in astronomy at the U of Rochester.  Two switched to engineering, and one completed his BS in astronomy, but now works as an engineer.  All are still active in astronomy.


Edited by Geo31, 21 October 2018 - 05:07 PM.

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#84 bobhen

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Posted 21 October 2018 - 05:49 PM

For me (like others who have posted) space in the 60s meant NASA Mercury, Gemini and Apollo, Star Trek, Estes rockets and my 60mm refractor. Space was front page and people talked about it.

In the 70s, I remember driving to Edmunds and checking out their scopes and having to drive to the Philadelphia Free Library to read Sky and Telescope, as our local library did not get the magazine. In the 70s I got my first “serious” scope, an 8” SCT.

 

I think back then society, as a whole, was more aware about things space-related. Lots of people read Life magazine. But amateur astronomy was harder to access and S & T was really the only window into the world of amateur astronomy.

 

Today, space and astronomy rarely make the front page but with the Internet, access to amateur astronomy is easier than ever.

 

On the whole, our equipment is also much better today than back then. And what I am able to see today I could only dream of back then. But the heady, euphoric feeling of the sixties and early 70s regarding space and space flight that spurred imaginations has by and large been lost or greatly diminished – at least for now.

 

Bob


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#85 rolo

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Posted 21 October 2018 - 06:12 PM

When i first got into the stars around 1975 till 77, i never knew there were astro clubs, Sky & Tele or telescope comp's or even you could buy eyepieces.  I thought i was all alone.

https://www.youtube....h?v=-F1D_X6hfmc


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#86 Joe1950

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Posted 21 October 2018 - 06:14 PM

 

 

This really hits the nail on the head, and I feel strongly the same way. The huge amount of gear leads

to "analysis paralysis" for many, I keep seeing the same variations on topics over and over. Recently

there was another premium mirror vs. mass produced mirror thread started. Do we really need another?

There are like 500 already.

I never gave in to the ultrawide eyepieces fad, all my eyepieces are older Plossls, an Orthoscopic,

and even a couple of (gasp) Kellners. For me they are good enough. Call me a heretic.

 

The eyepiece forum reminds me of electric guitar players who are constantly swapping out pickups

in search of the elusive "perfect" tone.

The other thing which bothers me with "premium" gear is an element of snobbery, one-upmanship,

and the collectors mentality have crept into the hobby. I think some people buy premium scopes,

especially apos, just to look at them in their living room and tell themselves they are great amateur

astronomers because they own the best money can buy. Or to flip them. There is the example

of someone selling an AP Stowaway for $11K. Really? It's a nice scope but still only 92mm.

You know what they say about fools and their money.

 

I really believe the 60's and 70's were much more about what you observed rather than the gear you had,

and as far as gear itself, there much more DIY, tinkering, and out-of-the box thinking. Often out of

necessity, but also because it was fun.

I have to agree with this. 

 

The one thing I dislike about the availability of discussion sites today as opposed to nothing like it in the 60s, such as CN, is the constant comparison, this vs. that type of discussions.

 

Don't get me wrong, I love CN and the people here. I have great friends and I can learn about virtually anything, astronomy or not with the brain and experience here. It's great.

 

Bus as others have said, there wasn't as much comparing going on. Certainly there was envy of those with better scopes, but aside from some good natured ribbing, no one spent much time, if any, thinking about it or talking about it. We used what we had and could afford.

 

Why don't I like this vs. that type discussions? If someone puts up a thread about a certain type of eyepiece, for example, and others weigh in on their experiences, that's fine. But when two or more are compared against each other, ie a shootout I generally stay away from even reading them.

 

When you have this vs. that and the consensus is this is superior to that, you have to remember, a lot of people own that. They spent their usually hard earned money on their collection of that, and probably are not fond of reading that this is so much better.

 

There just wasn't nearly as much comparison of equipment. Maybe because there wasn't a forum for such, or maybe it just wasn't important. I don't know.

 

Another thing that is vastly different is the number of scopes one owned. Now I'm not criticising anyone for having 10 or 25 or 50 or 100 scopes. Not at all. It just floors me compared to way back when, where the average number owned, at least among the people I knew, was 1, 2, 3 or maybe 5. I'm talking about full size scopes and mounts.

 

Again nothing critical, it was just a different time and economics were different when it came to hobbies. 

 

 

It was different, for sure. Better/worse? That's a much tougher question to answer. I'll stick with my answer to just about anything, anymore... "I don't know."


Edited by Joe1950, 21 October 2018 - 06:17 PM.

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#87 Mikefp

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Posted 21 October 2018 - 07:07 PM

Man, Viewing in the 60's was really cool, man.

Edited by Mikefp, 21 October 2018 - 07:13 PM.

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#88 brian dewelles

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Posted 21 October 2018 - 08:59 PM

I sure got inspired by patrick moores observers book of astronomy that i bought at scrantoms book store in rochester n.y. The sky observers guide golden book was read cover to cover alot. And for me earning astronomy merit badge got me serious about the hobby. Coming home from midnight mass in 1967 christmas eve with the snow falling making everything so quiet and knowing i was going to get an edmund 4.25" palomar jr. Is in my memory to this day. My dad getting us tickets to the second show ever at the brand new strasenburg planetarium in rochester was life changing and my first real dark sky at boy scout summer camp in the adorondacks was jaw dropping. We lived about a mile from kodak park, skies really were not that dark, eventually attempts at astrophotography led me to be more interested in cameras than stars and led to my major in photography at RIT and career in the photo industry but film sure didnt last.

Its interesting that lots of people have similar stories inspired by the stars, when i was a kid i thought you could make discoveries in your back yard and i still do. Great topic for baby boomers.


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#89 clamchip

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Posted 21 October 2018 - 09:06 PM

There is something I'd like to add, I cannot see all the stars that makeup the little dipper anymore.

I can see them all from our cabin up north in the San Juan Islands, but not here at camp Clamchip.

So apparently the skies have deteriorated over the last 30 years, at least from here at camp Clamchip.

 

Robert


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#90 Geo31

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Posted 21 October 2018 - 10:27 PM

I sure got inspired by patrick moores observers book of astronomy that i bought at scrantoms book store in rochester n.y. The sky observers guide golden book was read cover to cover alot. And for me earning astronomy merit badge got me serious about the hobby. Coming home from midnight mass in 1967 christmas eve with the snow falling making everything so quiet and knowing i was going to get an edmund 4.25" palomar jr. Is in my memory to this day. My dad getting us tickets to the second show ever at the brand new strasenburg planetarium in rochester was life changing and my first real dark sky at boy scout summer camp in the adorondacks was jaw dropping. We lived about a mile from kodak park, skies really were not that dark, eventually attempts at astrophotography led me to be more interested in cameras than stars and led to my major in photography at RIT and career in the photo industry but film sure didnt last.

Its interesting that lots of people have similar stories inspired by the stars, when i was a kid i thought you could make discoveries in your back yard and i still do. Great topic for baby boomers.

 

Brian!  I had NO idea you were from Rochester!  Wow, that's what, 4 of us who have posted here?

 

Interestingly, astronomy nurtured my interest in photography as well.  I was supposed to major in Professional Photography at RIT, but decided at the last minute to go another direction - photojournalism at the University of Missouri.  A couple of events forever turned me off to photojournalism though.  Sports, yes.  The rest of it, not a chance.


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#91 clamchip

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Posted 21 October 2018 - 11:20 PM

I Do have a confession, before the cold harsh reality of science, I was a UFO

hunter. Yes 100% prime grade A bone-a-fide and certified. In fact my wife could have me committed

for what's about to leave my lips.

Lots of fiction fueled my mind, especially Robert Heinlein's juvenile novels.

Before observing in the 60's' in a astronomical capacity, me and my friends were in our sleeping bags

armed with 7x35's looking for signs from our neighbors, meaningly Mars, yes Mars, we were sure these

saucers came from the Red Planet.

Tom Harrison's sister Cecilia seemed 'different' the next day, and from that day forward never the same.

You really have had to been there.

 

Robert  


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#92 waruna

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Posted 22 October 2018 - 01:33 AM

Born in 80's, dad has passed away 5 years ago, so had no idea what so ever what was it like in the sky. Maybe I could ask my great grand mother when I go back to home town later... (she's 102 and still in good healthy condition, God bless her).

 

In my country, astronomy thing is not so popular. Only few people that are really serious in this hobby and most of them are in the government sector, which makes them hard to reach by beginner like me to get some guidance.

 

Amateur clubs that once existed 2-3 years ago was long gone. So the only available and reliable resources for me to keep on going is thru this kind of forum. Thank you internet.

 

Anyway, back to topic. All these while I was wondering can we actually see the Milky Way without telescope? Like seriously back in the 60's when sky is much darker, you all can see them with naked eyes?


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#93 John Rogers

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Posted 22 October 2018 - 09:54 AM

This thread is a wonderful read.  It brought back a flood of memories that I had completely forgotten about!

 

I've never met any of you, but we have a lot of shared recollections!

 

 

John Rogers


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#94 terraclarke

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Posted 22 October 2018 - 09:56 AM

There is something I'd like to add, I cannot see all the stars that makeup the little dipper anymore.

I can see them all from our cabin up north in the San Juan Islands, but not here at camp Clamchip.

So apparently the skies have deteriorated over the last 30 years, at least from here at camp Clamchip.

 

Robert

I thought our light pollution sucked! I can still make them all out on a clear, dark moonless night from my deck.


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#95 terraclarke

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Posted 22 October 2018 - 10:14 AM

I was a UFO hunter..... we were in our sleeping bags armed with 7x35's looking for signs from our neighbors, meaningly Mars, yes Mars, we were sure these saucers came from the Red Planet.

Tom Harrison's sister Cecilia seemed 'different' the next day, and from that day forward never the same.

You really have had to been there.

 

Robert  

https://youtu.be/y3vPlEm1nig


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#96 terraclarke

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Posted 22 October 2018 - 10:29 AM

Not much to add to what's already been said, except that I feel that amateur astronomy from 1960 to 1965 was quite different than 1966 to 1970, and I think that it was more than just my age difference. In the early 60's our astronomy resources were Sky & Telescope, Scientific American, Sam Brown's "All About Telescopes", and a few others.  Skies were beautifully dark, even on the south shore of Long Island where I grew up. Space was a wonderful mystery.  And it was great to come back inside after an hour or two with my 3" Space Conqueror or my RV-6 and watch some black & white TV with my parents.

 

In 1966 Burnham's Celestial Handbooks came on the scene, skies were a little brighter, the space program dominated the astronomy news, and some of the "mystery" was gone. Admittedly, in fall of 1967 I entered Case Western Reserve Univ to major in astronomy (later changed to physics), so that changed things, but I think that even without that, the later 60's were quite different than the early 60's.

 

Bob

Yep, ‘67 was a watershed year for me too. Nothing was quite the same after that. I graduated highschool, went to S.F. that summer, came back and went to art school for a year. The next year I stayed in ‘the movement’ but got back on track in the sciences, but experience had opened my eyes beyond the heavens. My priorities had changed. Astronomy has always remained a part of my life but it was never the same again. But that was me and ‘the times’, I don’t think it had any thing to do with either the hobby or the science of Astronomy in the late 60s. I don’t think that began to change appreciably until a decade later. I do think that a big part of my fascination with Classic equipment and observing with it is really a subconscious attempt to try and get that magic back, but it really is like chasing a ghost. It will never really be quite the same. We’ve grown up and see the world (and outer space) differently now.


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#97 John Rogers

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Posted 22 October 2018 - 10:46 AM

Yep, ‘67 was a watershed year for me too. Nothing was quite the same after that. I graduated highschool, went to S.F. that summer, came back and went to art school for a year. The next year I stayed in ‘the movement’ but got back on track in the sciences, but experience had opened my eyes beyond the heavens. My priorities had changed. Astronomy has always remained a part of my life but it was never the same again. But that was me and ‘the times’, I don’t think it had any thing to do with either the hobby or the science of Astronomy in the late 60s. I don’t think that began to change appreciably until a decade later. I do think that a big part of my fascination with Classic equipment and observing with it is really a subconscious attempt to try and get that magic back, but it really is like chasing a ghost. It will never really be quite the same. We’ve grown up and see the world (and outer space) differently now.

I've heard it said that if you can remember the 60s, you weren't really there.

 

John Rogers


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#98 clamchip

clamchip

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Posted 22 October 2018 - 12:21 PM

What I find amazing is there was so much going on and I don't remember any of it.

These are the things I remember:

Apollo missions

Edmund Scientific

Robert Heinlein

The Book Mobile (came to our school)

The Popsicle Man 

Swats with a cricket bat (Elementary school, got'em on a regular basis)

UFO's (later I learned, not possible)

TV - The Monkee's Bat Man The Jetson's Golmer Pile

Mini Bikes and go karts, later on motorcycles and cars

Staying after school, because of my spelling

Mini skirts

No street shoes in the gym

Catching the field across the street on fire with a exp model rocket

Going up into Canada in a hippie bus for the summer 1966? (I was 9)

I didn't like tomatoes and most green vegetables.

I crashed my bike and ground the crystal right off my wrist watch

Philip next door got the most beautiful refractor he looked so elegant stand there upright like an aristocrat (pretty sure it

was a Jason silver tube 60mm alt/az)

Robert grinding and Foucault testing a 6 inch mirror (he was way ahead of all the rest of us mentally)

Bill blinding himself for 2 weeks with his homemade arc welder.

The candy counter and live mannequins at Sears

 

Robert


Edited by clamchip, 22 October 2018 - 12:24 PM.

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#99 sg6

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Posted 22 October 2018 - 12:44 PM

Observing was easier. I could always find UMi, odd as I had to expend effort to find UMa. Now all I see of UMi is Polaris and the 2 stars at the other end - has someone stolen the intermediate ones.

 

Learnt the constellations from that time, half kept the knowledge.

 

Didn't have a scope, but didn't seem to need one. Sure I was able to see some DSO's as well.


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#100 John Rogers

John Rogers

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Posted 22 October 2018 - 01:06 PM

Perhaps it is only me, but something I remember about the 60s is how slow time passed.  Whether it was waiting for something to come in the mail or for the sun to set, it seemed to take forever.

 

Now that I am an aged citizen, I'll notice that it is getting dark and wonder where the day went and how come I didn't get anything accomplished!

 

John Rogers


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