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Chances for a good C11: 50-50, 60-40, 80-20?

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#1 NMBob

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Posted 30 October 2018 - 01:01 PM

The credit card has been cleared for takeoff and Celestron is having an Edge sale. Since the 70's I've wanted a C14, but I think it's time to start thinking C11, instead. At 28# it should *never* give me too much trouble -- should even be able to heft it up for the girly-mounting method in a few years -- and it will be well handled by my Mach1 mount. I have to drag everything around to set it up, so the 11 will be a plus there. Looking at the list in the sig this should be my last scope. Of course, that's what I said around scope number 5, but other than a huge Dob I just don't want any other scope. I don't need any other scope. I've got all of my bases covered and everything is working pretty well.

 

In reading through everything it seems like getting a good one or a bad one is a little more iffy with these eleven inchers. Maybe bad things just show up more readily. What do you think are the chances of getting a lemon? I sure wish their focuser was a bit better, but there you go. Been reading the threads about fixing that. I've been watching Celestron images shift for almost 40 years. :) The locks do help on my 8 Edge, so I guess it's no big deal.

 

Thanks!

 

Bob

 


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#2 Magnetic Field

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Posted 30 October 2018 - 01:05 PM

The credit card has been cleared for takeoff and Celestron is having an Edge sale. Since the 70's I've wanted a C14, but I think it's time to start thinking C11, instead. At 28# it should *never* give me too much trouble -- should even be able to heft it up for the girly-mounting method in a few years -- and it will be well handled by my Mach1 mount. I have to drag everything around to set it up, so the 11 will be a plus there. Looking at the list in the sig this should be my last scope. Of course, that's what I said around scope number 5, but other than a huge Dob I just don't want any other scope. I don't need any other scope. I've got all of my bases covered and everything is working pretty well.

 

In reading through everything it seems like getting a good one or a bad one is a little more iffy with these eleven inchers. Maybe bad things just show up more readily. What do you think are the chances of getting a lemon? I sure wish their focuser was a bit better, but there you go. Been reading the threads about fixing that. I've been watching Celestron images shift for almost 40 years. smile.gif The locks do help on my 8 Edge, so I guess it's no big deal.

 

Thanks!

 

Bob

 

The odds are against you.

 

What would be interesting. If you buy one and later pay for an optical bench test proper.

 

 

Edit: The odds are stacked against you that you get something better than diffraction limited.


Edited by Magnetic Field, 30 October 2018 - 01:23 PM.

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#3 havasman

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Posted 30 October 2018 - 01:26 PM

My experience in manufacturing (NOT astro-related) is that a product with a failure rate even approaching 20% would fail dramatically in any marketplace and would be very commonly known by all who paid any attention as a complete travesty unworthy of consideration. It would be a drain on the resources of the maker and could not long remain a significant item in his market offerings.

 

The focuser will be what it is. That's a design matter. There are known fixes from such suppliers as Moonlight.

 

Collimation is just a part of reflectors and you may likely want to consider testing your scope's alignment and correcting it as

required.

 

But a bad sample seems highly unlikely. Celestron's been making SCT's for quite a while and they are a very significant %-age of their market presence.


Edited by havasman, 30 October 2018 - 02:21 PM.

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#4 Neptune

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Posted 30 October 2018 - 01:57 PM

I have had a total of 3 Celestron 11" scopes.

 

The first was a black tube from the late 80's or early 90's. It had horrible optics, I think the corrector plate had been replaced by some do-it-yourselfer. The edge of the glass was not precisely ground round. it was all chipped. This is not the usual Celestron style.

 

The second was a very nice carbon fiber model. It did have very nice optics.

 

The third is the HD edge that I currently own. It is a very fine scope giving the fact it is a SCT with all their shortcoming AND their good points.

 

I doubt you will be disappointed by an 11" Edge HD performance. 

 

Keeping in mind the atmosphere is ALWAYS the limiting factor.


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#5 George Methvin

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Posted 30 October 2018 - 02:03 PM

I don't think the odd are against you I believe you have a good bet of getting a good 11 sct , I would say about a 80 to 85  percent chance on getting a good one. Even if by chance you get a lemon just send it back for a refund.


Edited by George Methvin, 30 October 2018 - 02:04 PM.

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#6 NMBob

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Posted 30 October 2018 - 02:28 PM

The odds are against you.

 

What would be interesting. If you buy one and later pay for an optical bench test proper.

 

Edit: The odds are stacked against you that you get something better than diffraction limited.

I think that would be good enough. Testing would be interesting. A scope manufacturing place/optical shop is being considered in the little town west of here, Magdalena. I may be able to just do it there myself someday.

 

 

 

But a bad sample seems highly unlikely. Celestron's been making SCT's for quite a while and they are a very significant %-age of their market presence.

Sounds right. My 1979 C8 is really good, the Super C8 is not bad, and I've got no complaints about the 8 Edge so far. Maybe I have just been more sensitive to bad news about C11s, since I have been thinking about them.

 

 

I have had a total of 3 Celestron 11" scopes.

 

The first was a black tube from the late 80's or early 90's. It had horrible optics, I think the corrector plate had been replaced by some do-it-yourselfer. The edge of the glass was not precisely ground round. it was all chipped. This is not the usual Celestron style.

 

The second was a very nice carbon fiber model. It did have very nice optics.

 

The third is the HD edge that I currently own. It is a very fine scope giving the fact it is a SCT with all their shortcoming AND their good points.

 

I doubt you will be disappointed by an 11" Edge HD performance. 

 

Keeping in mind the atmosphere is ALWAYS the limiting factor.

I live in the desert, but it's getting harder to prove it. Lot's of high thin clouds these days (months, years). And when it is nice and clear there's dust in the air. Plus my eyes will be getting older, so maybe I won't even notice. :) I've been pretty happy with the Cats I've had. I like wide field stuff a little more, but I just got my HyperStar stuff goin on my C8 over the weekend and was able to get all of M31 in the frame on a ASI1600 (APS-C size), so I think the 11 will be OK in that respect too. Sounds good.

 

 

I don't think the odd are against you I believe you have a good bet of getting a good 11 sct , I would say about a 80 to 85  percent chance on getting a good one. Even if by chance you get a lemon just send it back for a refund.

Boy, you guys must all work for the credit card company. :) The only trouble I've had with a new scope was an Evolution C6, but that was the mount. Astronomics was all over it and got Celestron to contacting me right away. There was a new one in the mail the next day.

 

I'll wait until after work and probably go for it. Just this weekend I was thinking, "It sure is nice to be finished buying scopes and adapters and fans and bolts and filters and cases and..." :)

 

Thanks for the inputs!


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#7 carolinaskies

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Posted 30 October 2018 - 03:28 PM

All just hype about issues. You don't expect a thread to start and get pages about the awesome performance of any telescope. Rather it's when issues come up but in the reality if you go down through this forum and others the number of actually defective telescopes where they have to be returned is extremely small compared to the number that can be simply tweaked by the buyer at home if they have any ability.

#8 Exnihilo

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Posted 30 October 2018 - 03:39 PM

I have an 11” Edge, and am pretty happy with it. Optics are good, but can go bad if collimation is off. It will be important to check collimation fairly frequently and adjust (and know how to adjust) as needed. TheTempest fans are a good idea too. Your chances of getting a “lemon” are pretty small, actually.

Edited by Exnihilo, 30 October 2018 - 03:40 PM.

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#9 Don W

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Posted 30 October 2018 - 03:57 PM

Keep in mind that you usually only hear about the bad ones in a place like this. People don't complain about the good ones. I'm on my 3rd. First was a mid 90s black tube model. The previous owner had put some screws in the back to hold some sort of device. The screws contacted the mirror and prevented it from moving during focusing. He forced it and damaged the focusing mechanism. I gave it back to him in short order and got a refund. Not Celestron's fault.

 

The second was a brand new Nexstar 11 GPS. I felt it had very good optics. Of the dozen or more SCT's I've owned, I thought it was one of the best. Sold it after 2 years due to aperture fever and got an 18" Obsession.

 

Forward 15 years or so to last year. After 5 years out of the hobby I bought a used Nexstar 11 GPS. The optics were just as good as the new one I bought around 2000. It's my favorite scope right now and I would not hesitate to buy another Celestron 11 CPC or an OTA to go on a GEM.


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#10 NMBob

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Posted 30 October 2018 - 04:12 PM

All just hype about issues. You don't expect a thread to start and get pages about the awesome performance of any telescope. Rather it's when issues come up but in the reality if you go down through this forum and others the number of actually defective telescopes where they have to be returned is extremely small compared to the number that can be simply tweaked by the buyer at home if they have any ability.

 

 

Keep in mind that you usually only hear about the bad ones in a place like this. People don't complain about the good ones. I'm on my 3rd. First was a mid 90s black tube model. The previous owner had put some screws in the back to hold some sort of device. The screws contacted the mirror and prevented it from moving during focusing. He forced it and damaged the focusing mechanism. I gave it back to him in short order and got a refund. Not Celestron's fault.

 

The second was a brand new Nexstar 11 GPS. I felt it had very good optics. Of the dozen or more SCT's I've owned, I thought it was one of the best. Sold it after 2 years due to aperture fever and got an 18" Obsession.

 

Forward 15 years or so to last year. After 5 years out of the hobby I bought a used Nexstar 11 GPS. The optics were just as good as the new one I bought around 2000. It's my favorite scope right now and I would not hesitate to buy another Celestron 11 CPC or an OTA to go on a GEM.

Yeah, when something goes wrong I come here to post. When everything is going well I'm too busy having fun to post. :)

 

I have the newer TEMPest fans on my 8". They don't move a lot of air (the newer ones), but they do seem to help. Every time I fire them up I can smell the paint fumes from inside the scope, so I know they are doing something. I will most likely get a set for this scope too.

 

I have my 8" Edge on what was a 6" Evolution mount and it's perfect for outreach events. It's easy to run with my iPad and it works great. This C11 won't get shared. :)



#11 Dwight J

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Posted 30 October 2018 - 05:53 PM

I think you will like the C11.  It has become my most used OTA.  It is right sized for this old guy to heft onto the mounting once I remove the finder, etc.  It is big enough to satisfy without producing hernias.  I solved the mirror flop wth an add-on Crayford focuser.



#12 CHASLX200

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Posted 30 October 2018 - 05:58 PM

My friend had a super mushy 1982 C11.  Someone could have messed with it for all we know. He got it used.  It is a lotto. Some are bad, most are ok and a few could be killers.



#13 NMBob

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Posted 30 October 2018 - 08:14 PM

You all were no help at all. It's ordered. :)
TEMP-est fans ordered.
Orange ADM Vixen bar for the top ordered.
Camera adapter ordered.
Celestron Nexstar case ordered. I have one of these for my 8". I like them, except the interior pocket thing isn't great.

Will have to wait on the HyperStar.

 

The scope size does seem right, and I guess I'll take a shot. I bet it will turn out fine.

 

Thanks!


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#14 sink45ny

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Posted 30 October 2018 - 08:20 PM

I heard that Company Seven tests all their celestrons before they ship them to customers. If I was buy new I would give them a call first.

 

Company Seven is a resource for the international amateur and professional astronomy community, and a registered U.S. Department of Defense contractor.

 

http://www.company7.com/

 

When I sold my astro-physics F9 180 EDT they acted as the intermediary.


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#15 NMBob

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Posted 30 October 2018 - 09:11 PM

I kinda thought about them, but they stopped updating their Celestron info page in 2006? They say to contact them, and I know they are still in business, but what's that all about? It just didn't sit right with me. I ordered from Astronomics.


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#16 Jaimo!

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Posted 30 October 2018 - 10:11 PM

My friend had a super mushy 1982 C11.  Someone could have messed with it for all we know. He got it used.  It is a lotto. Some are bad, most are ok and a few could be killers.

Did he collimate?

 

Jaimo!


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#17 CHASLX200

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Posted 31 October 2018 - 05:16 AM

Did he collimate?

 

Jaimo!

We both did and moved the corrector around and no good.


Edited by CHASLX200, 31 October 2018 - 05:17 AM.


#18 Magnetic Field

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Posted 31 October 2018 - 05:37 AM

Did he collimate?

 

Jaimo!

 

Collimation the enemy of Catadioptric and Newtonian owners.

 

Chromatic Aberration the enemey of refractor owners.


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#19 Magnetic Field

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Posted 31 October 2018 - 05:39 AM

We both did and moved the corrector around and no good.

 

You then saw a focussed star with roundly shaped and centred airy rings and disc?


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#20 CHASLX200

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Posted 31 October 2018 - 06:06 AM

You then saw a focussed star with roundly shaped and centred airy rings and disc?

Just mush no matter what we did. Not even a focused planet at all.  Kinda like my 18" Tectron with a Nova mirror, but even worse.



#21 earlyriser

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Posted 31 October 2018 - 06:31 AM

I wouldn't make a decision on buying a newly manufactured telescope in 2018 based solely on the experience someone else had with the same model purchased used 36 years ago and having an unknown history.


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#22 jdupton

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Posted 31 October 2018 - 08:51 AM

I wouldn't make a decision on buying a newly manufactured telescope in 2018 based solely on the experience someone else had with the same model purchased used 36 years ago and having an unknown history.

 

   It is even worse than that. Many, if not all, of the one-off horror stories that are referenced in this thread are for non-EdgeHD scopes. The Original Poster, NMBob, said he was interested in taking advantage of the Celestron EdheHD sale right now. The EdgeHD was only introduced around 2011 or 2012 if memory serves. I bought mine in 2013 when a similar end-of-year sale was offered.

 

   Now that the OP has ordered the 11" EdgeHD, the proof will be in the seeing. My own copy of the Celestron 11" EdgeHD and Celestron 0.7X EdgeHD focal reducer perform to all my expectations. I expect NMBob's scope will do the same.

 

   NMBob, enjoy your new EdgeHD 11" when it arrives. Don't worry about any problems that were encountered more than a quarter of a century ago with a completely different product even if it did happen to come from the same company.

 

 

John


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#23 NMBob

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Posted 31 October 2018 - 09:55 AM

No worries. I've been around the block a few times. I remember when people started grumbling about the Halley Celestrons in the 80's and how Meade *started* to give the Big C a run for their money...then didn't. I was just looking for someone to keep me from spending the money. Won't make the mistake and come here again. :)

 

I think it'll be fine. I've had pretty good luck so far, and if it's bad I'm sure it will get straightened out. I hope the weather cooperates to at least get it tested a bit right after it gets here.

 

It's being shipped FedEx Ground. Small mistake, but we'll see. Neither UPS nor FedEx have been particularly kind to packages at work lately. Maybe the handlers will be nice and relaxed before the Month of Shipping Hell starts up.


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#24 gfstallin

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Posted 31 October 2018 - 11:28 AM

I kinda thought about them, but they stopped updating their Celestron info page in 2006? They say to contact them, and I know they are still in business, but what's that all about? It just didn't sit right with me. I ordered from Astronomics.

Company Seven is still very much in business. I bought my C9.25 from them. It was a local buy for me, but they ship OTAs around the world. They mention reasons for not updating their website, but it really boils down to the fact the public/consumer store is run amateur astronomers who happen to sell telescopes, while the company itself earns money with government and military work. I cannot be certain of this because it is a private company, but I got the distinct impression that the amateur astronomy side of the house is not necessarily making its owner(s) a huge profit (I'd guess it probably takes a loss); they just like telescopes and amateur astronomy. 

 

If you ever get a chance to visit Washington D.C., you should make a trip. Astronomics, High Point, and Cloud Break would be my other places to visit if I get a chance to make it Norman OK, upstate NJ, or back to Seattle, but I'm happy to have an actual astronomy shop nearby.

 

George



#25 Richard Whalen

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Posted 31 October 2018 - 12:41 PM

I would guess you will be happy with your new C11 edge, if not send it back. These days I bet they ship a lot more decent ones than turkeys, and many of the problems come  from rough shipping. In the old days I think quality was all over the place, was really the luck of the draw, these days by most reports quality is more consistent and you are less likely to get one at the far ends of the spectrum (really bad or really excellent). Enjoy your new scope in NM!


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