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SGP taking too long to cool ASI1600mm Pro ?

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#1 IshanAstronomer

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Posted 18 November 2018 - 02:46 AM

I just finished my first successful set of images with SGP. It is some software to comprehend. Now that the night is over, I'm mulling over a few things.

1. SGP increases cooler power way too slowly. Takes awfully long (about 10 mins) to cool down from 25C(ambient) to 0C despite of the setting "Cool down to 0C in 0 min". The same temperature was achieved in APT or Sharpcap Pro much much faster (about 3 min).

2. When "Abort" on camera temperature/cooler control is clicked, the power of cooler reduces instantly to zero leading to quick decrease in temperature. The same happens when I abort a sequence.

Problem 1 and 2 together make it so difficult to abort a sequence to change something or to start a new sequence. What's the workaround? Why does SGP take so long compared to other programs?



#2 cayalag

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Posted 18 November 2018 - 03:32 AM

I have noticed the "issue" as well... It takes a long time to cool to -20º, when Shapcap does it in half or 1/3 of the time.

 

At least you can manage in the settings to maintain the camera cooled even if you stop the sequence.


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#3 einarin

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Posted 18 November 2018 - 03:44 AM

Have you tried setting it cool down to 0C in 3 minutes ?



#4 Alex McConahay

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Posted 18 November 2018 - 10:00 AM

>>>>>>>>1. SGP increases cooler power way too slowly...….. Why does SGP take so long compared to other programs?

 

I do not have an answer for that. I suspect it is someplace in your settings. One of the confusing things about SGP is that there are several places to set nearly everything. 

 

Start in "Main Menu/Tools/Equipment Profile/Cameras" and under "Cooler" specify your desired settings. Be sure to check "cool down on camera connect"  but, until you get to know SGP and have it running right, do not click "warm up on sequence complete." 

 

Do not use the "abort" button on the temperature module. There is no reason to abort cooling while you are still using SGP.

 

When aborting a frame, do not "Take end of sequence" procedures. 

 

In general, you should not be setting the cool/warm parameters to zero time. Yes, probably nothing will happen to the chip. But, it could. I have cleaned my lenses many many times with a can of spray air. I stopped doing it when the cold air cracked my primary lens on my TV 85 ($800 repair!). So, really, set the cooler/warmup to at least three minutes. 

 

And, if you want more advice, tune in to "The Astro Imaging Channel" tonight. We are having an open session about SGP. YOu can ask all the questions you want. We will try to answer them. 

 

Alex


Edited by Alex McConahay, 18 November 2018 - 10:01 AM.

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#5 CharlesW

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Posted 18 November 2018 - 10:35 AM

There are 47 entries for “cool” in the 209 page SGP manual. Have you looked at the manual?



#6 Goofi

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Posted 18 November 2018 - 10:47 AM

Before you do much else ... check to make sure you are using a current driver from ASI. If it is  a software issue, ASI will catch it and fix it in their driver updates.

Next, I found SGP works much better when you tell it to get to temp in a specified time. In other words, -10C in 5 minutes works much better than -10C in 0 minutes.

 

Finally, you do not want a fast cool down, you want a stable, well-maintained temperature. Often, a fast cool down will overshoot, and then warm a little. For your calibration files to work their best, you need a stable temp. In my experience, cooling faster than about 5 degrees of cooling/minute requires waiting for the cooling to stabilize. Generally, I leave my SGP setting for the cooling to be 5 minutes, and warming back up for 4 minutes.



#7 james7ca

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Posted 18 November 2018 - 11:29 AM

And note that if you cool too rapidly then you may get condensations on the sensor, which can be a very bad thing. I always set SGP to cool my ZWO cameras over 10 minutes and I typically allow them to warm (at the end of the night) for another 10 minutes, but this depends somewhat on the humidity (but I never use a time less than 5 minutes). There have also been reports of damage to the sensor if you cool too quickly (caused by thermal shock), although that seems to be a somewhat controversial claim.

 

As for aborting the cooling and having the cooler turn off when you abort or stop a sequence, well, there are settings in SGP to control that behavior.


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#8 IshanAstronomer

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Posted 18 November 2018 - 12:17 PM

>>>>>>>>1. SGP increases cooler power way too slowly...….. Why does SGP take so long compared to other programs?

 

I do not have an answer for that. I suspect it is someplace in your settings. One of the confusing things about SGP is that there are several places to set nearly everything. 

 

Start in "Main Menu/Tools/Equipment Profile/Cameras" and under "Cooler" specify your desired settings. Be sure to check "cool down on camera connect"  but, until you get to know SGP and have it running right, do not click "warm up on sequence complete." 

 

Do not use the "abort" button on the temperature module. There is no reason to abort cooling while you are still using SGP.

 

When aborting a frame, do not "Take end of sequence" procedures. 

 

In general, you should not be setting the cool/warm parameters to zero time. Yes, probably nothing will happen to the chip. But, it could. I have cleaned my lenses many many times with a can of spray air. I stopped doing it when the cold air cracked my primary lens on my TV 85 ($800 repair!). So, really, set the cooler/warmup to at least three minutes. 

 

And, if you want more advice, tune in to "The Astro Imaging Channel" tonight. We are having an open session about SGP. YOu can ask all the questions you want. We will try to answer them. 

 

Alex

Thanks Alex.
You are right about different ways to change things. But I have now got good understanding of SGP control panel and equipment profiles. But I will turn off end of sequence tasks. BTW I am a big fan of AIC. I'll try to join the session if work permits me.

 

 

There are 47 entries for “cool” in the 209 page SGP manual. Have you looked at the manual?

Thanks Charles. Done. Read. It repeats the same info thrice on different pages. Its just a simple description of the buttons and fields. 

 

Before you do much else ... check to make sure you are using a current driver from ASI. If it is  a software issue, ASI will catch it and fix it in their driver updates.

Next, I found SGP works much better when you tell it to get to temp in a specified time. In other words, -10C in 5 minutes works much better than -10C in 0 minutes.

 

Finally, you do not want a fast cool down, you want a stable, well-maintained temperature. Often, a fast cool down will overshoot, and then warm a little. For your calibration files to work their best, you need a stable temp. In my experience, cooling faster than about 5 degrees of cooling/minute requires waiting for the cooling to stabilize. Generally, I leave my SGP setting for the cooling to be 5 minutes, and warming back up for 4 minutes.

 

 

And note that if you cool too rapidly then you may get condensations on the sensor, which can be a very bad thing. I always set SGP to cool my ZWO cameras over 10 minutes and I typically allow them to warm (at the end of the night) for another 10 minutes, but this depends somewhat on the humidity (but I never use a time less than 5 minutes). There have also been reports of damage to the sensor if you cool too quickly (caused by thermal shock), although that seems to be a somewhat controversial claim.

 

As for aborting the cooling and having the cooler turn off when you abort or stop a sequence, well, there are settings in SGP to control that behavior.

Thanks Goofi and James.

Now I updated the ASI drivers. Next imaging session I will set it to 5C/min rate and note the time it actually takes to go from 25C to -10C.  Its probably that Im used to faster cooling with other softwares.




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