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Red Edmund Scientific Model 3001 6" Newt on the big splayed-leg fork mount

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#51 shredder1656

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Posted 26 December 2018 - 09:00 PM

Thanks.  I am just lucky to have an hour or two each day this week.  Also, all of the contributions on this thread, the thread that was linked earlier, and a phone call or two, have really made me feel pretty sure of myself.  One of the many reasons I like this forum so much.  

 

It has been sitting around waiting on me to get started for months.  As smoothly as things have gone so far, I wish I would have started right away.  LOL.


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#52 DMala

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Posted 26 December 2018 - 09:15 PM

Boyd Red Enamel is NOT a good match, it is too dark. I am now testing some acrylic paint I found around the house, I will get back later with the results.

I would say we have a rather decent match! Today it occurred to me that many years ago, at an artist's supply store that was closing, I bought on sale several containers of acrylic paint, in order to touch up my surf fishing lures. I got lucky on this.

 

DecoArt Patio Paint, Terra Cotta, Concrete and Wood.  Holly Berry Red.  Product DCP43

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#53 cbwerner

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Posted 26 December 2018 - 09:35 PM

Wow. Nice job! :bow:

 

I'm truly jealous. My first scope was this same model, way back in 1976. So many awesome memories. I gave it away 10 years later, it just seemed so heavy at the time. That was really stupid of me. I've been regretting that for years . . . bangbang.gif


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#54 shredder1656

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Posted 26 December 2018 - 09:56 PM

I would say we have a rather decent match! Today it occurred to me that many years ago, at an artist's supply store that was closing, I bought on sale several containers of acrylic paint, in order to touch up my surf fishing lures. I got lucky on this.

 

DecoArt Patio Paint, Terra Cotta, Concrete and Wood.  Holly Berry Red.  Product DCP43

 

Wow!  That looks great!  I hope they still carry that at places like Hobby Lobby or Michael's.  I will definitely need to do some touch-up.  Thanks for sharing.


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#55 DMala

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Posted 27 December 2018 - 12:28 AM

Wow! That looks great! I hope they still carry that at places like Hobby Lobby or Michael's. I will definitely need to do some touch-up. Thanks for sharing.


I hope it helps but looking at your pictures it seems that the paint of your OTA is glossier and smoother than mine. You will need to verify the match, unless you repaint the entire tube.
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#56 apfever

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Posted 27 December 2018 - 01:23 AM

pin holes are common.  Most mirrors will show pin holes if you hold them up to a strong back light. Older mirrors will have more and/or bigger ones. If the mirror looks good from the front with no film, then I'd bet you wouldn't know the difference in a side with it recoated (if you could do that).  See if you can do a side by side comparison with another mirror close to the same specs.  So far, I haven't had a mirror recoated - but I'm not proud. 

 

Are you using plastic strips for spider vanes? They look like clear plastic strips. I'm not sure I'd trust that over time. I'm not sure I'd trust that over primary.


Edited by apfever, 27 December 2018 - 02:20 AM.

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#57 shredder1656

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Posted 27 December 2018 - 08:13 AM

pin holes are common.  Most mirrors will show pin holes if you hold them up to a strong back light. Older mirrors will have more and/or bigger ones. If the mirror looks good from the front with no film, then I'd bet you wouldn't know the difference in a side with it recoated (if you could do that).  See if you can do a side by side comparison with another mirror close to the same specs.  So far, I haven't had a mirror recoated - but I'm not proud. 

 

Are you using plastic strips for spider vanes? They look like clear plastic strips. I'm not sure I'd trust that over time. I'm not sure I'd trust that over primary.

Good info about the pin holes.  I am not going to rush to do anything major.  I discovered a few pieces that I am missing, so it might be awhile before I can test it out; especially on the original mount.  I am missing the tangent arm, the cork clutch, and I need to clean up the threads for the long thin bolt that holds the forks to the tripod.  

 

Here is a better picture of the material I used for the spider vanes.  It is not plastic, although the pictures do look like they could be.  It is a shim stock sheet that actually came with the scope.  It is .005" thick. 

 

20181227_055735.jpg 20181223_160117.jpg

 

It seems to be exactly what is needed.  I cut strips that were 10 7/8" long by 5/8" wide.  That size seemed to work perfectly.  I still need to get the secondary perfectly situated, but might have a few things I want to do before I finalize its position.  I have limited experience with newt collimation, and what little I have done has not went perfectly.  The vanes, though, appear to be uniform length all the way around.  I measured from the collar where the vane wraps to the center hole on all four.  They might vary a total of 1mm between the 4.  

 

I put the scope back together, because I am pretty much out of time for this go around.  Hopefully I can find a tangent arm or get dimensions to make one.  Other than a more thorough cleaning/greasing of the mount, paint touch-up, and a few other tweaks I am sure, I think it is pretty good.  Far closer to the sky than it was a week ago.  

 

Thanks again.

 

20181227_071745.jpg 20181227_070153.jpg


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#58 terraclarke

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Posted 27 December 2018 - 10:20 AM

Great restoration job Scott!



#59 shredder1656

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Posted 27 December 2018 - 03:49 PM

Thanks, Terra.  Still work to do, but I think it's very usable now.

 

Rain and clouds here, of course.  Tried to collimate.  I THINK it's at least very close.  Terrestrial images look decent, but we will see.  The primary mirror is definitely questionable.

 

20181227_090545-01.jpeg


Edited by shredder1656, 27 December 2018 - 03:50 PM.

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#60 shredder1656

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Posted 30 December 2018 - 09:15 AM

First light with the "rebuilt" Edmund 3001.  I like it, but I think I need to tweak the collimation.  Replacing the tangent arm will definitely make it more useable.  But, it seems to have a good potential.  

 

Pics are with the phone on the old Orion cell phone mount and the Meade 12.5mm Or.  Two are with the phone zoom at 2x, and the third is just standard ep mag.  I messed with the contrast on one, but I don't remember which.  

 

 

 

20181230_072700.jpg

 

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20181230_072557.jpg


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#61 shredder1656

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Posted 30 December 2018 - 09:17 AM

Here she is all ready to go!

 

20181230_071716.jpg


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#62 Mr Magoo

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Posted 30 December 2018 - 09:50 AM

Looking good! Glad you had some clear skies. It was all cloudy down here. 


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#63 shredder1656

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Posted 30 December 2018 - 09:56 AM

Looking good! Glad you had some clear skies. It was all cloudy down here. 

It was literally only about 45 minutes before sunrise.  But, I will take it.  Hope the skies open up down your way.


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#64 deepwoods1

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Posted 30 December 2018 - 10:23 AM

Very nice! We had a forecast for at least clear skies, got a dusting of snow instead. I need a job that I can fail at 90% of the time......


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#65 shredder1656

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Posted 30 December 2018 - 11:29 AM

Thanks. I forgot to mention that I only had about 20 minutes to let it cool down from our 68*F house to 25*F outside. Probably not sufficient time to acclimate, or is it? Could that have affected the images?
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#66 shredder1656

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Posted 30 December 2018 - 08:04 PM

Besides trying to figure out the time it takes to acclimate, I would like to know if there is anything else intended to be between the forks, cradle, and the big knob, besides the cork clutch and tangent arm? The bolt comes through to far, even with an extra cork spacer.

I guess, maybe I should ask for at least the nominal thickness of the clutch and/or tangent arm. Also, at least a rough idea of the tangent arm dimensions would be cool.

Anyone have those bits of trivia?

#67 clamchip

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Posted 30 December 2018 - 08:53 PM

I usually use a star to see if the mirror (and the whole telescope) is acclimated.

If you can focus the star to a nice point chances are your there, if a fuzzy cotton ball

you've got a way's to go.

Also you can sharp focus a object like a planet with the drive running and see how often

you need to make focus corrections. Once focus has settled down that means the mirror

has adjusted and the telescope's tube is no longer growing or shrinking.

Mirrors take time to adjust and also to track the temperature, if the temperature is steadily

falling the primary might not be able to keep up.

A fast f/6 like your Edmund will also have a very small range of in-focus measured in thousandths

f/8 and slower is more forgiving with more depth of focus.

 

Robert


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#68 steve t

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Posted 31 December 2018 - 01:07 PM

Thanks. I forgot to mention that I only had about 20 minutes to let it cool down from our 68*F house to 25*F outside. Probably not sufficient time to acclimate, or is it? Could that have affected the images?

Hi shredder,

Nice looking scope and restoration.

 

With my 6" Newtonian (with a 1/8" cork lined aluminum tube) I've found that in the winter a cool down of about an hour seems to be about right (going from room temperature to an outside temperature of ~30°).

 

In the summer 1/2 hour is about right.

 

Once cooled down, a 6" scope seems to track the ambient temperature change quite well, provided the rate isn't too high.

 

Of course the use of fans can speed things up. 

 

Steve T 


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#69 shredder1656

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Posted 31 December 2018 - 02:45 PM

Thank you for the input on cool down times.  I don't have much experience with the newts, but thought I understood that they took longer than the fracs.  That info helps.  I am guessing that my 20 minute cool down was not sufficient to give me the best idea of the scope's performance possibilities.  

 

I hope to take the mount apart soon to clean and re-grease everything.  If no one has the dimensions for the tangent arm, I will just "wing it" based on what I have.  I cleaned up the threads and bolt for the mount to attach to the tripod.  Everything is useable, except the drive right now.  

 

I am going to take the mirror out and soak it again, unless this looks like a degraded mirror to the experts here.  I am not exactly sure what I am looking at.  I know that some never re-coat, and I am not dying to do that, but I cannot imagine that the current condition of the mirror is prime.  Just curious whether anyone on thinks it just needs further cleaning or this is permanent.  It did not look quite this bad when it was out of the tube.  I noticed it more when I was messing around with the scope last night.  

 

 

 

20181231_143729.jpg

 

 


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#70 steve t

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Posted 31 December 2018 - 05:07 PM

Personally, I'd use it as is and avoid anymore cleaning until you get a feel on how good the mirror figure is and how well you like the ergonomics of the scope. If it looks like a keeper then I'd consider having it recoated. There are companies that offer mirror testing along with recoating service. 

 

My mirror lasted +35 years before I had to recoat it YMMV.

 

On a side note.

I've been surprised at how dirty a mirror needs to be before it starts impacting the image. I avoid shining a bright flash light on my mirror smile.gif

 

Since my main interest is observing variable stars,  I only consider cleaning the mirror if, on a good night, l can't glimpse a 13th magnitude star at zenith.  

 

Have a Happy New Year 

Steve T 


Edited by steve t, 31 December 2018 - 05:18 PM.

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#71 DMala

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Posted 05 January 2019 - 09:48 AM

Shredder1656 (or anyone else), do you have a source for instructions on the collimation of the secondary mirror?

 

I have only found this source:  https://www.cloudyni...4001/?p=4640130

 

A preceding post (#123) warns against touching the factory-set screws of the vane tension system.

 

An online version of the manual would be ideal, does it exist? I searched and found none so far. Thanks


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#72 shredder1656

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Posted 05 January 2019 - 11:38 AM

Thank you, Dmala.  I do not have any instructions other than the info on the thread to which you linked.  I also noticed post #123.  

 

Obviously, I could not avoid messing with mine, since that was the main problem.  Maybe I need to change the tension some, because I am having some difficulty getting it collimated.  Or maybe my skies just haven't been great  the last couple of nights.  One minute I have it dialed in and the next I have a hard time focusing to points.  The stars seem to be collapsing into their dead-center, but then at the last bit end up with a tiny tail.  ???

 

Are you having issues too?  Hopefully you don't need to mess with your vanes.  I will definitely forward a manual if I find one.  

 

Another thing I am wondering...now that I have mine back together and the secondary pretty much dead-center...is the secondary SUPPOSED to actually be offset?  I read on another thread some discussion about that.  Never entered my mind???


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#73 DMala

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Posted 05 January 2019 - 05:47 PM

Thank you, Dmala.  I do not have any instructions other than the info on the thread to which you linked.  I also noticed post #123.  

 

Obviously, I could not avoid messing with mine, since that was the main problem.  (...) Are you having issues too?  (...) 

Another thing I am wondering...now that I have mine back together and the secondary pretty much dead-center...is the secondary SUPPOSED to actually be offset?  I read on another thread some discussion about that.  Never entered my mind???

Yes when I read post #123 I thought you did not have the luxury to follow it.... Well if you clamped the stem of the secondary mirror holder back to the same length that it had originally, and at the same 45 degree angle (based on looking at mine) versus the right angle formed by two vanes, then your secondary should be where it originally was....

 

I have not yet re-assembled my 8" so I can not report on how challenging the collimation is, yet. Regarding your collimation difficulties I am not an expert but neither I am a total newbie, so here is an opinion to take or leave....

 

If like me you were not born to be an instant perfect collimator (wink.gif​ ), to align properly a mirror with a final star test takes time, patience and concentration.  It is very cold now, and there is no way that while freezing I could do that effectively. The low temps further complicate things as it takes more time to equalize mirror and OTA temperatures. These nice and thick Edmund mirrors obviously do not seem designed for quick cool-offs.... I would go for now as far as I can with no stress, and plan to finish the job in the spring.


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#74 apfever

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Posted 05 January 2019 - 06:01 PM

This is what I found in my computer. I don't know if this is all for this set or what exactly..anything,  I'd have to dig my archives for originals and that's a few stacks.

 

 

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#75 apfever

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Posted 05 January 2019 - 06:02 PM

front,

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