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Mr Magoo's Cave

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#1 Mr Magoo

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Posted 01 December 2018 - 07:04 PM

A few months ago a friend called me and asked me if I was interested in taking an old scope to restore. The scopes owner had passed away several years ago and the scope has been stored in a barn ever since. He was pretty sure it was a Cave, it was really big, and it was free. With all of that, how could I say no. 

 

Between all of our busy schedules it has taken this long to arrange a pick up date. Today it was raining all day here in Indy, but that was not going to derail the plan again. I rented a cargo trailer from U-Haul to do the job. For only $14.95 a day it was a no-brainer. It made the job so much easier.

 

I was not even positive what size it was until I got up there today. It is a 12.5" f/6, but there are some very puzzling things about it. The owner originally thought it was made in the early 1960's, but the first picture of it I got told me it was much later. It has a 6" pier pipe and legs that are identical to my Meade 1060 RG. The tube is a 14" fiberglass tube instead of the normal 15". There are shims in between the rings and the tube. Lots of extra holes in the OTA where other things were mounted, moved, and removed. I am fairly certain that the tube has been moved downward in the cage. The tube has a seam showing and has some very bad uneven spots toward the center. 

 

The tangent arm is missing parts, but I really don't know what is missing and what it looked like originally. I do not believe the knobs are original either. 

 

Guide scope rings missing. The guide scope I got is a 60 mm with no tags. 

 

The finder is a Japanese product and I think the rings are original Cave rings. 

 

The mount is not in terrible shape. I have not opened the motor box yet. I do believe it may have the original paint. I can see no other layer on it where it is peeling. It is a very dark gray with a hammered texture. 

 

I was sweating over what the mirror was going to be. First thing I noticed is that the glass has a dark amber color to it. I have never had a mirror like this. What is up with that? Upon pulling the mirror I was elated to find it inscribed. Now for the money shot!

 

 

IMG_2133.JPG


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#2 shredder1656

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Posted 01 December 2018 - 07:07 PM

Congrats!  Looking forward to your posts about this scope.  Very nice!



#3 Mr Magoo

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Posted 01 December 2018 - 07:07 PM

So now with the date on the mirror I am totally confused. Why is the scope put together with these parts? Why is the tube 14" and why does it have Meade legs? In 1975 to my limited knowledge it should not have come out of the shop looking like this. 

 

I wonder if the tube was replace at some point and by then the owner could not get a 15" so they had to use a 14" with a new cell and spider. 


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#4 Mr Magoo

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Posted 01 December 2018 - 07:10 PM

Parts pictures. 

 

IMG_2128-002.JPG

 

 

IMG_2129.JPG

 

 

 


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#5 Mr Magoo

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Posted 01 December 2018 - 07:11 PM

IMG_2130.JPG

 

 

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#6 Mr Magoo

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Posted 01 December 2018 - 07:12 PM

The OTA. A little over 80" long. 

 

IMG_2135.JPG


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#7 petert913

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Posted 01 December 2018 - 07:19 PM

Boy, they built those old reflectors like tanks, didn't they ?   Awesome. 


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#8 Augustus

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Posted 01 December 2018 - 07:22 PM

With regards to the mirror, IIRC Cave offered Cer-Vit primaries for an extra price. Cer-Vit is an amber color, right?


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#9 Mr Magoo

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Posted 01 December 2018 - 07:24 PM

With regards to the mirror, IIRC Cave offered Cer-Vit primaries for an extra price. Cer-Vit is an amber color, right?

Boy you have got me there Augustus. I have no idea about that. It is a very distinct amber color. 


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#10 CHASLX200

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Posted 01 December 2018 - 07:42 PM

Boy you have got me there Augustus. I have no idea about that. It is a very distinct amber color. 

 My cave has a Cervit mirror and looks odd in color.


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#11 CHASLX200

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Posted 01 December 2018 - 07:51 PM

Looks like a later 70's scope. Finder was like the one Meade sold in 1977.  End rings are the newer thicker rings not seen on the 60's scopes. Focuser is also a later 70's made job.  My 1975 Cave had the older style finder and Sly Micro. This scope was hacked together with odd parts.  Tube OD should be 16" if it is a Parks tube. Take a sniff down the tube and see if it smells like a Parks tube. All parks tubes had a clean seam jean.  Later in the 70's Cave used other tube makers like Meade Fiberlite tubes and paper wound tubes glassed over.


Edited by CHASLX200, 01 December 2018 - 07:58 PM.

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#12 dgreyson

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Posted 01 December 2018 - 08:13 PM

thats a nice find for an over the winter project.  The color looks consistant with cervit reflector blanks on google so thats a plus.


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#13 TOMDEY

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Posted 01 December 2018 - 08:44 PM

Nice! I had a wonderful Cave Astrola 12.5-inch f/6 that I retrofitted a Byers 11+ drive to and also dec drive. It was wonderful. I eventually sold it off for... something like $2000!  Tom


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#14 Mr Magoo

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Posted 01 December 2018 - 09:28 PM

One thing I forgot to mention. You may be wondering why did Ken move that mount with that massive freaking counterweight still on the shaft? Well, when I went to remove it I found that there is no set screw in the hole and it is frozen on the shaft! That will be one of the first things I deal with. Not sure what it weighs, but it's YUGE!


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#15 TOMDEY

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Posted 01 December 2018 - 10:48 PM

One thing I forgot to mention. You may be wondering why did Ken move that mount with that massive freaking counterweight still on the shaft? Well, when I went to remove it I found that there is no set screw in the hole and it is frozen on the shaft! That will be one of the first things I deal with. Not sure what it weighs, but it's YUGE!

Now THAT's Funny! The main CW on my Astrola was 100 pound Lead. To have something like that stuck on is hilarious... in a Schadenfreude sense. Looks like a proper wheel-puller and some penetrating oil will do the trick. You're SURE there is no set screw in there? Getting it to rotate first maybe... ??? Is it lead or steel/iron?!  Mine was lead, but I think it (must have) had a steel threaded insert in there.  Tom


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#16 Ken Launie

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Posted 01 December 2018 - 11:13 PM

Sometimes the reddish coloration is from red rouge staining on pyrex and other optical glass that hasn't been fully cleaned. All of the Cervit mirrors I've seen had smooth, straight ground edges that don't look cast at all, though I've never seen what a Cervit blank on a Cave looks like. It should be obvious looking at the back at a shallow angle with a bright flashlight. Cervit is a deep orangish red, and it will almost seem to glow unless the back has been polished completely smooth. Regardless of the substrate, there's a good chance it's a good mirror.

--Ken


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#17 Mr Magoo

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Posted 01 December 2018 - 11:15 PM

Now THAT's Funny! The main CW on my Astrola was 100 pound Lead. To have something like that stuck on is hilarious... in a Schadenfreude sense. Looks like a proper wheel-puller and some penetrating oil will do the trick. You're SURE there is no set screw in there? Getting it to rotate first maybe... ??? Is it lead or steel/iron?!  Mine was lead, but I think it (must have) had a steel threaded insert in there.  Tom

There is no set screw, just rusted on there. I will fill the hole with PB Blaster. The weight iron and is about 8" in diameter and 5.75 thick. 


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#18 clamchip

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Posted 01 December 2018 - 11:24 PM

My 1957 8 inch deluxe has a lead counterweight with a cast-in brass insert for the set screw threads

as shown in the photo.

Here is a Cer-vit secondary, at least we have pretty much determined it's Cer-vit

Robert

 

post-50896-0-33988200-1490549712_thumb.jpg

IMG_8893.jpg


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#19 TOMDEY

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Posted 01 December 2018 - 11:43 PM

There is no set screw, just rusted on there. I will fill the hole with PB Blaster. The weight iron and is about 8" in diameter and 5.75 thick. 

Well, if it won't come off... it would make a great Bludgeon!  Tom



#20 roscoe

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Posted 02 December 2018 - 07:07 AM

My 10" Cave-ish was likely built by an ATM using a bunch of Cave parts and a bunch of other stuff, and features many extra holes, as yours does.  Yours could well be mine's cousin..... mine also arrived with all manner of little things missing or replaced, but for free....who's complaining??

 

PS I found some white marine epoxy that worked well for filling the extra holes in my tube.....


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#21 CHASLX200

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Posted 02 December 2018 - 07:20 AM

Sometimes the reddish coloration is from red rouge staining on pyrex and other optical glass that hasn't been fully cleaned. All of the Cervit mirrors I've seen had smooth, straight ground edges that don't look cast at all, though I've never seen what a Cervit blank on a Cave looks like. It should be obvious looking at the back at a shallow angle with a bright flashlight. Cervit is a deep orangish red, and it will almost seem to glow unless the back has been polished completely smooth. Regardless of the substrate, there's a good chance it's a good mirror.

--Ken

I can take a pic of mine if that helps

8zk0uw.jpg


Edited by CHASLX200, 02 December 2018 - 07:27 AM.

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#22 Mr Magoo

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Posted 02 December 2018 - 07:57 AM

Sometimes the reddish coloration is from red rouge staining on pyrex and other optical glass that hasn't been fully cleaned. All of the Cervit mirrors I've seen had smooth, straight ground edges that don't look cast at all, though I've never seen what a Cervit blank on a Cave looks like. It should be obvious looking at the back at a shallow angle with a bright flashlight. Cervit is a deep orangish red, and it will almost seem to glow unless the back has been polished completely smooth. Regardless of the substrate, there's a good chance it's a good mirror.

--Ken

Exactly how this looks Ken. 



#23 Geo31

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Posted 02 December 2018 - 08:31 AM

When you begin working on removing the CW, you may want to remove the rust first. You could get a 5 gallon bucket and put a couple of gallons of Evaporust in it and let the shaft/CW soak.  It WILL remove the rust, but a couple of gallons is expensive since you wouldn't need that much for anything else.  The other thing you could try (and I plan to with the Field Cave CW) is electrolytic rust removal.  You can look at the videos on YouTube.  Works great apparently.  I had a 2 amp trickle charger, but I'm not sure it came with me in the move (and if it did, God only knows where it's at).  I think removing the rust first would improve the effectiveness of the penetrating oil.  You may want to try some Aerokroil or Kroil from Kano Labs.  Best penetrant out there.


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#24 CHASLX200

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Posted 02 December 2018 - 09:17 AM

I guess if all else fails you can take a sledge to it. I may end up with a shaft since the machine shop has my mount and i am fed up waiting and can't get any answer back from them. So i may have lost my mount.  I am gonna call the cops and have them meet me there if all else fails.



#25 Mr Magoo

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Posted 02 December 2018 - 10:38 AM

So looking at the picture of what is remaining of the Dec drive/tangent arm, can someone tell me what I am missing for this era of mount? Pictures if possible please! 

 

I do not know if it is the correct one or not, but I did find an original Hurst DA,1 RPM, 5w motor for $16 so I took a chance and grabbed it. I was not sure if this one should have the Hurst or the Bristol in this spot. Thank you all!




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