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I Almost Bought a TSA-120 Tonight

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#1 Jeff Morgan

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Posted 05 December 2018 - 09:25 PM

So I'm walking the dog and saw an Astromart ad on my phone for a TSA-120, $2200 including shipping. But in my offer for it.

 

Got back from the walk, jumped on my computer and the photo in the ad is a TSA-102.

 

Oops!

 

The seller had not responded yet (unrated on A'mart) and I promptly retracted my offer.

 

So close ....


Edited by Jeff Morgan, 05 December 2018 - 09:26 PM.

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#2 agmoonsolns

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Posted 05 December 2018 - 09:28 PM

It's a scammer. I tried to report it, but couldn't find any way to do so and so I tried posting to AM forums.



#3 agmoonsolns

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Posted 05 December 2018 - 09:29 PM

Seller swears it's a 120mm, but can't provide any details.



#4 kenkolen

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Posted 05 December 2018 - 09:36 PM

Seller swears it's a 120mm, but can't provide any details.

I saw that ad also, I have a 120 but at that price I could make a bino pair, LOL



#5 Kunama

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Posted 05 December 2018 - 09:46 PM

SCAM SCAM SCAM............ I know that because that TSA102S is in my loungeroom here in Australia and that wooden case is next to me in my study as I type..........

 

I am not a member of AM so can't report it...

Doesn't Astromart vet the people at all????

 

For anyone interested, the one on the left is that scope from the scam ad... ... Maybe someone could let AM know....

Attached Thumbnails

  • MIS_6044.jpg

Edited by Kunama, 05 December 2018 - 09:49 PM.

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#6 agmoonsolns

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Posted 05 December 2018 - 09:47 PM

You notice it didn't show up here on CN and if it had, observant users could have quickly reported it. I couldn't find anything anywhere on AM for reporting the possible scam. Says a lot about the safety of the two sites. Thank you CN for the clickable text in the ads for reporting possible problems, very much appreciated!


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#7 Astrola72

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Posted 05 December 2018 - 09:49 PM

From AM Terms of Service:

 

BUYER BEWARE - YOU TAKE THE RISK.

Astromart is not involved in any transaction between any party who uses our site. There are risks that you assume when dealing with people who might be acting under false pretenses; all of these risks are borne by you. Astromart™ is a venue only and we do not screen or censor or otherwise control the classified listings offered to other Users, nor does Astromart screen or censor or otherwise control the Users of its service. Astromart cannot and does not control the behavior of the participants on this site. We cannot control whether or not Users of the Service will complete the transactions they describe on our site. IT IS EXTREMELY IMPORTANT THAT YOU USE CARE THROUGHOUT YOUR DEALINGS WITH OTHER PEOPLE ON THIS SITE!

    DISPUTES & RELEASE.

If there is a dispute between participants on this site, Astromart is under no obligation to become involved. In the event that you have a dispute with one or more Users, you hereby release Astromart, its officers, employees, agents and successors in rights from claims, demands and damages (actual and consequential) of every kind or nature, known or unknown, suspected and unsuspected, disclosed and undisclosed, arising out of or in any way related to such disputes and/or our service.

 

So, other than posting on their forum to warn others (who read the forum), seems there's no recourse.

 

Joe



#8 J A VOLK

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Posted 05 December 2018 - 09:56 PM

Apparently scammers now feel it is worth the AM membership fee for the opportunity to steal thousands....
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#9 Kunama

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Posted 05 December 2018 - 09:57 PM

I have reported it and Herb has removed the Ad.


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#10 agmoonsolns

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Posted 05 December 2018 - 09:58 PM

Wow, can't even report it to admins to protect users?



#11 Kunama

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Posted 05 December 2018 - 09:59 PM

Who would have thought eBay with Paypal would be a safer site......... I doubt I will be rejoining AM .....


Edited by Kunama, 05 December 2018 - 10:00 PM.

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#12 agmoonsolns

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Posted 05 December 2018 - 10:00 PM

Awesome, thank you Kunama, I was really worried about it.

 

Several months ago I fell for a Mewlon 210 ad under similar circumstances and was out $2000 for several weeks until the dispute resolution process finally completed. It was really truly terrible to go through. I would be willing to bet it's the exact same person.



#13 agmoonsolns

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Posted 05 December 2018 - 10:10 PM

Even Ebay has them. I just try to make sure I pay with a credit card through Paypal so I have two lines of protection.

 

BTW, scamming goes in the other direction too. I have seen buyers scam sellers by abusing the dispute resolution process and there's absolutely nothing one can do about it either. It makes me afraid to accept Paypal for more expensive items. I would much rather drive a couple hundred miles so the buyer can physically examine everything first and I get paid in cash. I feel so badly for the seller who accepted a return for a refund on a 130mm AP only to get an 80mm achromat back. PP sided on the buyer's side because he had a tracking number showing it was delivered back to the seller. He filed police reports in both states, contacted the FBI, etc. and Paypal refused to listen to him. How in the heck do you protect yourself against that?


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#14 Jeff Morgan

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Posted 05 December 2018 - 10:38 PM

Apparently a few grifters have heard about the demand for APO refractors. Only costs $15 to get an Astromart account. Learn the brands ... the prices ... make a scam offer below normal market prices ... bam.

 

Sounds like I dodged a bullet on this one! I really set myself up for the shoot-down here - Out for a walk, teeth chattering in the cold, attention split between the phone and the dog, it's dark out, no reading glasses with me.

 

I have never had a scam issue before, and I have gotten some interesting items by just a minute over the next buyer. (And I have frequently finished second place by just a minute!) 

 

Lesson learned. I'll just have to slow things down a bit and check out the sellers instead of firing out the immediate "I'll buy it" email.


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#15 Elektronkind

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Posted 05 December 2018 - 10:53 PM

Doesn't Astromart vet the people at all????

Because it's impractical to do so?



#16 agmoonsolns

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Posted 05 December 2018 - 11:25 PM

Herb did responded to me very quickly and as stated above, the ad was promptly deleted. As long as the users report these ads, AM is really pretty good. 


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#17 Bowmoreman

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Posted 05 December 2018 - 11:29 PM

Apparently a few grifters have heard about the demand for APO refractors. Only costs $15 to get an Astromart account. Learn the brands ... the prices ... make a scam offer below normal market prices ... bam.

 

Sounds like I dodged a bullet on this one! I really set myself up for the shoot-down here - Out for a walk, teeth chattering in the cold, attention split between the phone and the dog, it's dark out, no reading glasses with me.

 

I have never had a scam issue before, and I have gotten some interesting items by just a minute over the next buyer. (And I have frequently finished second place by just a minute!) 

 

Lesson learned. I'll just have to slow things down a bit and check out the sellers instead of firing out the immediate "I'll buy it" email.

It is ALL about the buyer/seller and their history and provenance. Those cannott be faked.  

 

Dave


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#18 Codbear

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Posted 05 December 2018 - 11:48 PM

Herb did responded to me very quickly and as stated above, the ad was promptly deleted. As long as the users report these ads, AM is really pretty good. 

And for months Herb has run the "Astromart Tips" that specifically address scamming and how to try and avoid it.  He certainly is trying to make sure users are smart and aware about purchases/sales.



#19 Lookitup

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Posted 06 December 2018 - 01:23 AM

Even Ebay has them. I just try to make sure I pay with a credit card through Paypal so I have two lines of protection.

 

BTW, scamming goes in the other direction too. I have seen buyers scam sellers by abusing the dispute resolution process and there's absolutely nothing one can do about it either. It makes me afraid to accept Paypal for more expensive items. I would much rather drive a couple hundred miles so the buyer can physically examine everything first and I get paid in cash. I feel so badly for the seller who accepted a return for a refund on a 130mm AP only to get an 80mm achromat back. PP sided on the buyer's side because he had a tracking number showing it was delivered back to the seller. He filed police reports in both states, contacted the FBI, etc. and Paypal refused to listen to him. How in the heck do you protect yourself against that?

Paying or get payed in cash on site carries various risks. Ratings and sales history should help weeding out scammers. Another scam might be to give additional discounts asking for good ratings as a newer seller. Personally I've been lucky sending a $ amount to the middle of Texas to obtain a wonderful Vixen ED115S. Seller had great ratings, I had had none at the time. Stay save CS Pete



#20 gjanke

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Posted 06 December 2018 - 07:00 AM

AstroMart is as vigilant as CN. The CN TOS is about on par with AM and in writing states:

 

" It is up to sellers and buyers to perform due diligence with regard to whether the author or licensor deems such works to be transferable to another owner. Cloudy Nights will not get involved or intervene in any disputes that arise between any participants involved in transactions that occur through the use of this venue. “Buyer beware” and “seller beware” should always be kept in mind when entering into transactions when using this venue."

 

AstroMart lacks the forum that provides the feedback loop to validate ads of this nature. By proxy, cause we are all looking for the next best deal, we do that feedback for AM here on this site.  Which makes this a great place to come for this hobby!

 

However, make no mistake, AstroMart is awesome.



#21 nicknacknock

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Posted 06 December 2018 - 07:26 AM

In the end, if it's too good to be true....


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#22 Mel M

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Posted 06 December 2018 - 07:37 AM

When I joined Astromart (2001?) they required a credit card. People with a valid credit card are safer bets than people without credit cards. At least a credit card company has decided you are worth the risk. And your address has been established.


Edited by Mel M, 06 December 2018 - 07:38 AM.

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#23 Reid W

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Posted 06 December 2018 - 10:54 AM

Even Ebay has them. I just try to make sure I pay with a credit card through Paypal so I have two lines of protection.

 

BTW, scamming goes in the other direction too. I have seen buyers scam sellers by abusing the dispute resolution process and there's absolutely nothing one can do about it either. It makes me afraid to accept Paypal for more expensive items. I would much rather drive a couple hundred miles so the buyer can physically examine everything first and I get paid in cash. I feel so badly for the seller who accepted a return for a refund on a 130mm AP only to get an 80mm achromat back. PP sided on the buyer's side because he had a tracking number showing it was delivered back to the seller. He filed police reports in both states, contacted the FBI, etc. and Paypal refused to listen to him. How in the heck do you protect yourself against that?

Yep.  I got smoked by a buyer.  On day 29 of purchase he sent extreme closeups of "damage".  It was impossible to even see if that was the camera lens i shipped.  PP sided with him.  Rather than receiving a rock back, I refunded half of the price.



#24 Heywood

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Posted 06 December 2018 - 11:25 AM

Nothing wrong with Astromart.  Just buy from sellers with long sales histories and excellent ratings, like me.  grin.gif

 

Heywood


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#25 doctordub

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Posted 06 December 2018 - 11:56 AM

A scammer tried to purchase a mount from me here on CN a few years ago, there were several red flags.

1. He tried to arange pickup from my address.

2. He wanted me to continue contact on his e-mail.

3. He did not want to use paypal or money order.

4. He had no post, or ratings!

5. Within an hour CN had him removed from site!

CS

Jonathan


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