6244 replies to this topic

[Fiske]

. . .

 

M31/M33 were "meh" (Sorry MT4) and honestly so were the Starfish (M38/NGC1912) and the Pinwheel (M36/NGC1960). All were less than spectacular...

 

. . .

Jordan, it seems like you have optimized your BT eyepiece selection for double stars maybe at the expense of DSO viewing?

 

You have standardized on Takahashi TLP eyepieces, is that correct? Which have 50* AFOVs? So, quite narrow both in true FOV and also in viewing feel.

 

Here are my three lowest magnification eyepieces for use with BTs. 

 

 

Left to right, Explore Scientific 24mm 68* series, Pentax 20mm XW, and a newly arrived Orion 24mm UFF, which I tired for the first time last night, unfortunately just as clouds were sweeping in so I only had a few moments of viewing with them, but it was tantalizing -- pinpoint sharp right to the edge of the field and even through light clouds, the views of M 52 and the Double Cluster were remarkable. 

 

These three eyepieces have AFOVs of 68, 70, and 65 degrees. With the 100XL the FOVs are 23x/2.91 degrees, 28x/2.50 degrees, and 23x/2.79 degrees respectively, granted not nearly so wide as a 6.5 degree binocular and M 31 is a bit of a squeeze  but the views are plenty spacious for M 33, M 36, M 37, and M 38 and they feel like binocular views.

 

I haven't done that much observing with the TPL 18mm yet, but my initial impression was surprise at how narrow the AFOVs are and what a different experience it is compared with wider AFOV eyepieces like the above. Given such narrow AFOVs, it's not surprising to me that DSOs seem meh from a binocular perspective.

[jrazz]

No.

 

The TPLs are plenty wide for me and usually give the best views. I also have a pair of Meade 32mm Plössls that maximize the FOV.

 

I do not miss the chunky eyepieces that caused me more grief than good. I also don't feel constrained by the AFOV. In fact, I use the TPL on my TOA even though I have a set of perfectly good 100° Stellarvue Optiomus EOP eyepieces available.

The AFOV simply doesn't bother me.

 

When I say the view was "meh" I mean it lacked "sparkle" or "definition". Not a lot of stars were visible. This is due to the conditions being crappy not the eyepieces. I've seen some stunning views of these targets through the same instrument/eyepieces. 

 

Sometimes pulling back and seeing the entire thing at lower magnification is simply better regardless. 

[cee_dee.exe]

I was up all night and I was reading NightWatch, the brief section about the winter sky and the star maps there. Then I went outside and saw it all for real, in full view at around 4 AM, with Orion to the southwest midway between horizon and zenith.

 

I'm still somewhat new to figuring my way around the night sky (my telescope is GoTo). So I spent a little time naked-eye stargazing and focusing on individual stars - finding the familiar Betelgeuse, then Rigel, then over to Sirius, then arcing up to Procyon, Pollux, Castor, then over to Capella. Across Orion's Belt over to Aldebaran, Hyades, then Pleiades. It was very satisfying to know which stars are where, how to find them, and then see the whole picture.

 

Sirius was gorgeous through binoculars, so striking and bright, and very twinkly (all the stars were last night).

 

Then I scanned Orion for a while with binoculars. I previously posted how I once thought the Orion Nebula was "a region of countless stars" before I knew it was a nebula that I was observing. Now, after looking at the Orion Nebula and scanning around the whole constellation of Orion with binoculars for a few nights, I can definitely see how the stars are simply uncountable.

 

It's breathtaking. Even under a Bortle 7.5 sky, Orion contains a vast field of stars that seems more dense and bright than any other constellation I've scanned around so far. And, of course, I spent plenty of time looking at Pleiades, which is always beautiful.

 

Then I had a fun surprise - Venus rising. It glittered like a gem. There must have been so much turbulence in the air, because it was almost prismatic in color and twinkled wildly. I checked it out again throughout the early morning into dawn. It is so bright! And it was very cool to see it fade into the brightening sky as the last bright object I could see, slowly merging with the coming daylight, before the sun rose.

[Dale Smith]

Wonderful report, thanks for sharing it here! Orion is always spectacular here as well in my own Bortle 7 sky.

[Dale Smith]

Went outside during astronomical twilight this morning with the MoonStar 6.5x32 to view Orion, Auriga, Gemini, M44, the Coma Star Cluster, Perseus and the Alpha Persei Cluster. The Double Cluster was faintly visible. Little bits of cloud, like cotton balls that had been pulled apart, drifted by during the session.

 

M44, nearly at its highest point in the sky here, was beautifully framed in the MoonStar. Over in Auriga, the Waterfall and Leaping Minnow pointed the way to the starfish, which I just thought I detected. I really need a SQM  It had rained a lot last night, which tends to darken the sky here thanks to removing haze.

 

While I turning around, with the eastern sky to my right, a very bright shooting star flashed across my peripheral version, from the direction of Leo. I’d finally glimpsed one of this year’s Leonids! That was a delightful capper to this short session.

[Fiske]

In addition to trying out the prototype eyecup extensions on the MoonStar 6.5x32, and a brief trial run (as clouds were sweeping in) with the newly arrived Orion 24mm UFF eyepieces on the 120XL, I managed to glimpse M 33 from my urban yard for the very first time, inspired by suit's report above.  Details about the observation, and the fast approaching Christmas-Light-Apocalypse, here. 

 

Another fun object was of 6 Trianguli. It may be the first time I have attempted to resolve it.

 

STF 227 / 6 Trianguli

02h12m +30*18'

5.162/6.613 sep 3.88" pa 67.2*

 

Challenging to resolve with the 120XL and 10mm XWs (67x) but seen as two stars. Primary a deep yellow, the secondary was too close to judge color. The secondary is much smaller and fainter, which makes the observation difficult. The 100XL at higher magnification would be a better choice for this double, or maybe the CC8 if I'm really determined. 

Edited by Fiske, 19 November 2023 - 02:54 PM.

[jrazz]

In addition to trying out the prototype eyecup extensions on the MoonStar 6.5x32, and a brief trial run (as clouds were sweeping in) with the newly arrived Orion 24mm UFF eyepieces on the 120XL, I managed to glimpse M 33 from my urban yard for the very first time, inspired by suit's report above.  Details about the observation, and the fast approaching Christmas-Light-Apocalypse, here. 

 

Another fun observation was of 6 Trianguli, which may be the first time I have resolved it.

 

STF 227 / 6 Trianguli

02h12m +30*18'

5.162/6.613 sep 3.88" pa 67.2*

 

Challenging to resolve with the 120XL and 10mm XWs (67x) but seen as two stars. Primary a deep yellow, the secondary was too close to judge color. The secondary is much smaller and fainter, which makes the observation difficult. The100XL at higher magnification would be a better choice for this double, or maybe the CC8 if I'm really determined. 

Well.... Sounds like my sort of thing

[Dale Smith]

Congrats on glimpsing M33 from your home, Fiske! I managed to do so, once. last winter, using my 16x80s handheld. It helped that I’d seen M33 while at my writer’s retreat the previous March, in Bortle 2 skies, so I had a visceral understanding of how spread out its brightness is. I’ll definitely be looking for it here this winter with the 82XL 

[Fiske]

Well.... Sounds like my sort of thing

You think? 

 

Here is the thing about the larger BTs, like the Oberwerk 127XL and 120XL. When the magnification is increased enough to exhibit diffraction patterns, they are not symmetrical. Certainly not with the 120XL. I don't believe the 127XL is either. Sooner or later I'll do a comparison of diffraction patterns between the various BTs. Well, not the Highlander because it only supports magnifications up to 50x, which isn't high enough for diffraction patterns. (Not necessarily a coincidence.  )

 

With an APO refractor, I am guessing there are collimation controls to adjust diffraction patterns, which of course makes the instrument sharper. Or at least they can be adjusted. With BTs, other than something like a Borg Binoscope or a similar instrument assembled from two individual refractors, I suspect it isn't possible to do that. Collimation with a BT means adjusting the two OTAs to be in alignment. It's not about adjusting the components of a single OTA so they are perfectly aligned. This is why Pinac and others have opted for binoscopes, despite the considerable expense. 

 

This is why the 100XL has always struck me as being a better option for closer doubles. At its smaller size alignment of the optical components for each OTA is less challenging from a manufacturing perspective and likely to be better than for larger instruments. 

 

To me, larger BTs are  more usable and enjoyable at low to moderate magnification not only because the fields are wider but also because the views are sharper (and are also less subject to seeing conditions).

Edited by Fiske, 19 November 2023 - 01:27 PM.

[Dave Mitsky]

On Saturday evening, I showed a neighbor the waxing crescent Moon through my 6" Orion SkyQuest Dob and an 8-24mm Tele Vue Click Stop Zoom eyepiece.  I also took some hand-held afocal iPhone shots.
 

A bit later, I tracked part of a bright ISS pass with my Canon 15x50 IS and took a few iPhone Night mode photographs.
 

Later, my wife and I traveled to the orange zone Naylor Observatory where I viewed Jupiter, 31 Orionis, 119 Tauri, the Davis's Dog asterism, the Golf Putter asterism, the Heart of the Swan asterism, Kemble 1 (Kemble's Cascade), the Kids asterism, the Leaping Minnow asterism, the Little Kids asterism, the Smiley Face or Cheshire Cat asterism, the Snake asterism, the Sword of Orion asterism, Collinder 65, Collinder 69, Collinder 70, Melotte 20, Melotte 25, M31, M33, M34, M35, M36, M37, M38, M39, M41, M42, M44, M45, M46, M47, M48, M50, M67, M81, M82, M93, M103, NGC 752, NGC 869 and NGC 884 (the Double Cluster), NGC 1528, NGC 1907, NGC 1980, NGC 1981, NGC 2169, NGC 2244, NGC 2264, Stock 2 (faint), and Trumpler 2 using my Canon 15x50 IS. 

It was cold but the conditions were quite good.  I got a high SQM-L reading of 19.75 mpsas.

 

I observed Jupiter (a GRS transit was underway), Uranus, M42, M43, M78, and M79, and took a few hand-held afocal iPhone photographs of Jupiter and its moons with the observatory's 17" f/15 classical Cassegrain.

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[desert_sage]

@Dave Mitsky:  Any sign of the famous lost toolbag near the ISS? Weather here, no chance of observing.

[cee_dee.exe]

While I turning around, with the eastern sky to my right, a very bright shooting star flashed across my peripheral version, from the direction of Leo. I’d finally glimpsed one of this year’s Leonids! That was a delightful capper to this short session.

I somehow forgot that I also saw a shooting star last night! Very similar experience and location in the sky. I have never seen a Leonid before.

[Takuan]

You think?

Here is the thing about the larger BTs, like the Oberwerk 127XL and 120XL. When the magnification is increased enough to exhibit diffraction patterns, they are not symmetrical. Certainly not with the 120XL. I don't believe the 127XL is either. Sooner or later I'll do a comparison of diffraction patterns between the various BTs. Well, not the Highlander because it only supports magnifications up to 50x, which isn't high enough for diffraction patterns. (Not necessarily a coincidence. )

.

I'm not sure I understand you. Do you mean that the star test is bad in the 120 and better in the 100?

[MT4]

You think? 

 

Here is the thing about the larger BTs, like the Oberwerk 127XL and 120XL. When the magnification is increased enough to exhibit diffraction patterns, they are not symmetrical. Certainly not with the 120XL. I don't believe the 127XL is either. Sooner or later I'll do a comparison of diffraction patterns between the various BTs. Well, not the Highlander because it only supports magnifications up to 50x, which isn't high enough for diffraction patterns. (Not necessarily a coincidence.  )

 

With an APO refractor, I am guessing there are collimation controls to adjust diffraction patterns, which of course makes the instrument sharper. Or at least they can be adjusted. With BTs, other than something like a Borg Binoscope or a similar instrument assembled from two individual refractors, I suspect it isn't possible to do that. Collimation with a BT means adjusting the two OTAs to be in alignment. It's not about adjusting the components of a single OTA so they are perfectly aligned. This is why Pinac and others have opted for binoscopes, despite the considerable expense. 

 

This is why the 100XL has always struck me as being a better option for closer doubles. At its smaller size alignment of the optical components for each OTA is less challenging from a manufacturing perspective and likely to be better than for larger instruments. 

 

To me, larger BTs are  more usable and enjoyable at low to moderate magnification not only because the fields are wider but also because the views are sharper (and are also less subject to seeing conditions).

 

With my SkyRover 120mm BT, I only use high mags (100x and above) to look at the moon and the planets.

 

For deep-sky work, I've recently found that 73x is the "perfect" mag for my skies.   It allows me to see enough of open clusters like M11 for me to be happy.

 

While the moon looks a lot more detailed at 100x or 132x or 165x, I've found that it may be more enjoyable at 73x for the reasons that you stated above.

[desert_sage]

Just after sunset I noticed that the winds had dropped from the day’s gale force levels (45mph,58gust) and slipped out to admire the waxing moon with the Canon 12x36 IS iii for a few minutes.

 

Crisp and sharp, with Ptolemaeus (I believe) standing out on the terminator.

 

After dinner I went out again, but the sunset lull was over and winds were already back into the 20mph range :-(

 

Still, for mid November, a nice night.

[Scott99]

Had our first taste of crystal-clear winter air last night, wow the transparency was excellent for once!

Had maximum binocular enjoyment using my 10x56 and 8x42 to roam over the winter landscape - Hyades and Pleaides, Orion Nebula and general Orion constellation - the big "S" around the belt, the head asterism,etc, and then the OC's of Auriga and M35.  

 

Looks like we might get another night of two of this clear air mass

[Dale Smith]

Another “partly cloudy” evening here, with an abrupt temperature drop. I viewed the waxing crescent Moon in the 10x50 Ultra handheld, (a terrific lunar binocular) and a mounted 20x60 Pentax. I really wanted to bring out the BT-82XL, but I didn’t time for cool down and clear skies, so stuck with straight through binoculars. The crater chain of Alphonsus, Arzachel and Thebit was striking, right on the lunar detail. The air was turbulent, thanks to the temperature drop and Luna’s not-super high position in the sky so 20x and especially 10x were perfect.

 

The Pleiades were, no surprise, spectacular in the 10x50 Ultras, and M31 nicely framed at 10x and 6.5 degrees FOV. I switched to 8x42 Sport EDs and viewed the Moon some more, followed by a tour of my favorite late fall celestial wonders—M45, the Hyades, M31, Perseus MG, Double Cluster etc.

 

Yet another short session, but short is far better than no session.

Edited by Dale Smith, 20 November 2023 - 01:54 PM.

[Terra Nova]

I observed the near first quarter moon low in the sky around 11:30 Saturday night with my new MMC 8x42 binocular and last night around 10:30 I admired it again, this time naked eye, through incoming, mid level broken clouds. It had a beautiful three-dimensional appearance amid the silvery alto-cumulus and even higher cirrus clouds. Sometimes views are just perfect, using nothing but what nature endowed us with. Last night was such a night. I can’t help looking at the moon at night without the first few lines of this old song running through my head (and occasionally from my lips as well):

 

Au clair de la lune

Mon ami Pierrot
Prete-moi ta plume
Pour écrire un mot.

 

Ma chandelle est morte
Je n'ai plus de feu
Ouvre-moi ta porte
Pour l'amour de Dieu.

[j.gardavsky]

I will recall this lyrics on the next moon lit night,

 

JG

[Pinewood]

.. Sometimes views are just perfect, using nothing but what nature endowed us with. Last night was such a night.

...

Hello Terra Nova,

 

Yes, I saw both Jupiter and the waxing moon, last night, just with my eyes, to my delight.  As I live in New York City, only kilometers from Times Squnaked eye observations are limited.

 

Tonight, I returned home with a 7x42, as the sky was clouding, around 00:20 UTC.  I managed to see just two moons, to the west of Jupiter, Ganymede and Callisto, with one moon to the East,   Europa. Io was too close to the planet.   The terminator on the waxing moon displayed the mountainous irregularities.  Some craters and the maria were also visible.  Even a 7x binocular, handheld can enhance one's observation.

 

Stay safe,

Arthur

[Droro]

i watched the moon with my canon 12x36 iii , it was much different than telescope viewing. 

i actually enjoyed the clouds coming and going, something i dont viewing in higher mags, it gave the whole experience an eerie aspect, and the varying moonglow from the clouds just add. 

the view was quite good,less false color than i thought i would get. 

[Dale Smith]

Mostly Luna yesterday evening before the clouds completely closed in, but I did get a fetching view of the Pleiades in my Bushnell Legend-L 10x42 binocular. The Moon looked sharp despite a thin gauze of clouds around it (we had largely cloud banks further away in the sky from Luna). I was also snapping photos of the first quarter Moon as viewed through the AT72EDii and a 9mm Vixen SLV. I really wanted to bring the bigger BT-82XL out, but this was yet another fleeting cloud break situations.

Edited by Dale Smith, 21 November 2023 - 04:25 PM.

[Dave Mitsky]

The Astronomical Society of Harrisburg held its final public observing session of the year at the orange zone Naylor Observatory on Sunday night.

 

Since I was busy helping to operate the observatory's 17" classical Cassegrain, I wasn't able to do any binocular observing until much later but I did view a number of celestial objects, including Jupiter, 119 Tauri, Alcor-Mizar, the Davis's Dog asterism, the Golf Putter asterism, the Heart of the Swan asterism, the Kids asterism, the Snake asterism, the Sword of Orion asterism, Collinder 65, Collinder 69, Collinder 70, Melotte 20, Melotte 25, M31, M33, M34, M35, M39, M41, M42, M44, M45, M46, M47, M48, M50, M67, M103, NGC 752 (faint), NGC 869 and NGC 884 (the Double Cluster), NGC 1528, NGC 1980, NGC 1981, NGC 2169, NGC 2244, and NGC 2264 with my Canon 15x50 IS, before leaving the observatory.

 

I posted some of the photos that I took that night at https://www.cloudyni...ession-of-2023/

[Suit]

Well done, suit! 

 

  

 

I've never managed to view M 33 from my urban yard. Well, I haven't tried my 127XL on it yet, so that might be a possibility. 

 

What is the naked eye limiting magnitude near the zenith from your yard? 

NELM was about 4.6 or so.

[jrazz]

In addition to trying out the prototype eyecup extensions on the MoonStar 6.5x32, and a brief trial run (as clouds were sweeping in) with the newly arrived Orion 24mm UFF eyepieces on the 120XL, I managed to glimpse M 33 from my urban yard for the very first time, inspired by suit's report above.  Details about the observation, and the fast approaching Christmas-Light-Apocalypse, here. 

 

Another fun object was of 6 Trianguli. It may be the first time I have attempted to resolve it.

 

STF 227 / 6 Trianguli

02h12m +30*18'

5.162/6.613 sep 3.88" pa 67.2*

 

Challenging to resolve with the 120XL and 10mm XWs (67x) but seen as two stars. Primary a deep yellow, the secondary was too close to judge color. The secondary is much smaller and fainter, which makes the observation difficult. The 100XL at higher magnification would be a better choice for this double, or maybe the CC8 if I'm really determined. 

 

 

Wonderful wonderful double. Very pretty and wide (and bright) enough to be split with the 34x80. Very awesome! Thank you for suggesting it!

I thought both were fairly bright with the primary being brilliant yellow and the secondary a slightly dull, grayish blue-white. While not as bright, at mag ~6.5 I certainly won't call it faint. (though I have been exploring mag 10 doubles lately so...)

 

Anyway I thought it was a wonderful double for the one night of clear and stupidly cold nights we have now (~19.5mpsas / ~30°F)

 

p.s. I did manage to see a bright bolide streaking across the sky just as I was looking up. AWSOME!

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Edited by jrazz, 22 November 2023 - 01:48 AM.