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New A-P Stowaway First-lights, Reviews, and Shootouts

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#451 Paul G

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Posted 17 June 2019 - 04:01 PM

Really?! You haven’t seen the prices down over on the ‘Mart or AP’s sitting for days, weeks lately? A recent 175 was asking $24k, a 130 was under $6k and a nice Star 12 is still there at its usual asking price. Okay, maybe “sales are soft” is more palatable ?

Three scopes do not a trend make. smile.gif  That 175 has a scratch on the ota and a dent in the objective cover. With scopes like this condition is everything. And even damaged it is selling for 25% over the new price.

 

130's are all over the place. High end scopes like these often change hands outside the public eye, one doesn't see those prices. I know of a couple of 130 EDF scopes that sold privately in the high $7k's this year and one for a bit over $8k. They were in pristine condition. The length of the waiting list helps prop up the prices of 130's, the initial market price new and sheer numbers prevents it from going crazy.

 

Star 12's are what, 30-40 years old? Haven't seen the ad, don't know its condition.

 

One thing that has changed for sure is that AP now sells their new scopes at pretty close to market value (as determined by sale of perfect condition used scopes) so there isn't that insane appreciation that we used to see where a just purchased scope could be flipped immediately for huge profits. What a new scope is sure to do is retain its value with a modest appreciation if it is cared for properly. When Roland retires all those scopes are likely to get a bump.


Edited by Paul G, 17 June 2019 - 04:01 PM.

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#452 Scott99

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Posted 17 June 2019 - 04:17 PM

people are still waiting for prices to come down on Alvan Clark & Sons refractors! lol.gif

 

Paul makes a good point about the condition of the instruments - the older they get, the more important it becomes.   Some people just don't take care of their stuff.  



#453 Richard Whalen

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Posted 17 June 2019 - 04:30 PM

What someone "asks" for a AP is often not what one gets. If a AP is on the market more than 2 weeks I would guess their asking more than people are willing to pay being that AP has a strong following and a limited amount of scopes available. The ones I see sell in a day or two are usually more realistically priced for their condition and desirability. Though sometimes people want what they want, price be ****. With other high end brands making 140mm and larger scopes I dont see older APs commanding such high prices over the long term unless it was a very small batch like the 206 EDF. 



#454 Swanny

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Posted 17 June 2019 - 06:01 PM

I think if someone really wants one they will pay up to a point. Prices have softened a bit. Thing is, TEC140 is similar in price, oil filled, little more aperture, fairly readily available. If you are a ‘collector’ then perhaps it means more to you than the other 99.5% of the hobby to own an AP scope. Personally, I don’t see all the hubub with so many options out there.

I find much better places to park my $ than a scope. It is a hobby and these things are tools to me.

#455 gnowellsct

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Posted 17 June 2019 - 08:32 PM

When Roland retires all those scopes are likely to get a bump.

Could be.  Maybe Yuri and Catalin will get a bump.



#456 Swanny

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Posted 17 June 2019 - 11:00 PM

When Roland retires....who services them if something goes wrong like an oil leak, etc.?

#457 Scott99

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Posted Yesterday, 10:48 AM

When Roland retires....who services them if something goes wrong like an oil leak, etc.?

Jiffy Lube?  there are differences between AP's and these other brands being mentioned.  People that buy the AP's know what the differences are.


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#458 peleuba

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Posted Yesterday, 11:14 AM

Could be.  Maybe Yuri and Catalin will get a bump.

 

 

Perhaps a bump in sales, but I am not so sure, necessarily, in value.  Supply and demand (mostly) determine market value.

 

A-P is a boutique brand in a niche market (hobby).  I think its "intrinsic" value that really applies to collectors and makes something collectible.  Market value is secondary and may/may not be the same as intrinsic value.

 

What Paul G said above about condition cannot be overemphasized.  Its everything.  


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#459 Dwight56

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Posted Yesterday, 11:24 AM

It takes a while to sell things in this market it has been this way since 2008 That AP 175 can sit on the market for a year before someone buy's it. that is what it is going to take. Yeah if you want it gone in 2 weeks sell it for $500.00 I don't think you will see that happen. Years ago someone from Europe tried to sell an Astro-Physics 10 inch Mak for $3500.00 he claimed he got it as a gift from someone who picked it up on a whim. Yeah right. It turned out the AP scope he was selling was a scam and Interpol was looking for this guy. I had posted a Nikon 5100 camera for sale at  what it would cost you if you bought a used one on Amazon it took over a year to move it. I have had other items I have sold on Astromart and the same story for the most part it can take the better part of a year. Items right now that seem to move are eyepieces and filters and CCD camera's that are past their prime.

 

popcorn.gif popcorn.gif popcorn.gif



#460 Traveler

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Posted Yesterday, 11:46 AM

...

 

.... but what about: New A-P Stowaway First-lights, Reviews, and Shootouts?



#461 gnowellsct

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Posted Yesterday, 11:51 AM

Jiffy Lube? there are differences between AP's and these other brands being mentioned. People that buy the AP's know what the differences are.


Leakage of oiled triplets is a known thing that happens to APs as well as other premier brands. The first time I heard about it was for an AP. Wisecracking about Jiffy lube doesn't change the fact that at some point some of these scopes are going to need maintenance and repair.

I buy AP's and I know what the differences are. There arent a lot of oiled triplets coming out of China and I don't even think Tak makes them...have never heard of that, could be wrong. Speaking for myself I'll likely croak before my AP has an issue but I would not put a lot of money on my kid still using this refractor in 20 or 40 years without needing to replace the oil.

#462 Swanny

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Posted Yesterday, 12:06 PM

I suspect there will be little if any issues with an AP. The ones that had an issue I think they use a different method than on the first runs to keep the oil in place.

I personally like oil in my car and the frying pan. Not my scopes ;)

#463 ryderc1

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Posted Yesterday, 03:21 PM

I suppose an argument could be made that having to re-oil a lens is preferable to having to deal with mold or other issues that may arise between the elements of an air spaced lens. I have scopes with lenses of both types and don't worry about either occurrence, though.



#464 peleuba

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Posted Yesterday, 04:04 PM

I suppose an argument could be made that having to re-oil a lens is preferable to having to deal with mold or other issues that may arise between the elements of an air spaced lens. I have scopes with lenses of both types and don't worry about either occurrence, though.

Agree.

 

I would much rather have an oiled objective lens "leak" then have issues with air spaced design.

 

In an oil-spaced lens all three pieces of glass and the coupling gel act as a single unit.  In an air spaced lens the glass and air-gaps act as 5 separate (but related) elements.  Much more can go wrong with an air-spaced design and a more complex cell is required.  For and oiled objective, there is a single drop of oil that is pressed between the mating surfaces and spreads out.  Its held in place via capillary action.  The edge of glass is taped using Kapton tape then placed in the cell.

 

Higher levels of correction can be, theoretically, achieved in an air spaced objective because you have 8 "surfaces" to use to your advantage (6 glass and 2 air) whereas, in an oiled lens, you have only two. 

 

If need be, amateurs can re-oil their own lenses.  They would just need to clean, re-oil, then make sure the elements are properly aligned with each other.  The glass is marked on the edges so alignment is trivially easy to do.  And, optical coupling agents (oil/gel) are readily available.  I would not want to be put into a position of re-spacing an (air-gapped) objective to the perfection that a high performing short focal length air spaced triplet APO requires.  

 

 

***Edited for clarity/spelling/grammar


Edited by peleuba, Yesterday, 07:51 PM.

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