887 replies to this topic

[Akinetopsia]

I think the threaded hole on the underside of the iEXOS-100 is threaded for an m10 bolt.  (I think.)  [...]  you really do need more than just a 1/4" or 3/8" stud holding the two together.  These studs on photographic tripods only thread about 1/4" or so into the tripod head and that is not nearly enough for a telescope mount.

Yup, that's my concern as well. 3/8 is def better than 1/4. And i second your opinion.

However,

3/8in is 9.525mm, so that's definitely not far off 10mm. But if ES uses metric for their fasteners, yeah. Not that I expected it to, but it's not going to work.

 

Ah, "Flange" is the term i was looking for when describing a "spacer".

Now, perhaps it's possible to replace the tripod's threaded stud with a metric bolt of appropriate length and similar head to have better ingress contact. Then, a decently flat hardwood flange (preferably just a smidge higher than the bottom nub sticking out of the mount housing the threads, and of equal or larger width than the mount base), when tightened, should be pretty stable.

If i'm honest, @amitshesh tripod looks sturdier than the stock tripod that came with my iEXOS which flexes, twists and wobbles at nothing even after tightening everything.. I'm also looking for a replacement that is stocked. And to be honest re "adapting the top plate of the tripod (likely making it unusable for photography)" at 3/8 it is most likely not a photography tripod. That is most likely meant for midrange film gear or large teleobjectives.

Edited by Akinetopsia, 28 September 2023 - 09:01 PM.

[Akinetopsia]

That's not entirely true.  Certainly no more true than any other astronomy manufacturer.  

 

The iEXOS-100 can be easily adapted for use with the ST2/3 tripods by using the Azimuth Adjuster adapter. 

Except it's basically impossible to get our hands on those tripods

 

 

Edit: Seems i'm playing catch-up as we're posting simultaneously - but yes, regarding the availability of the ST2/3 tripods, not much we can do short term other than look for alternative options. Astronomy/photography is a hobby that requires patience but at the same time, an expensive one given all the components. It's understandable that when the rare perfect night just so happens we want to be ready for it     .. and that stock tripod definitely isn't up to par if you want to use that mount to its full potential

Edited by Akinetopsia, 27 September 2023 - 10:22 PM.

[amitshesh]

That's not entirely true. Certainly no more true than any other astronomy manufacturer.

The iEXOS-100 can be easily adapted for use with the ST2/3 tripods by using the Azimuth Adjuster adapter. The ST2/3 tripods are almost identical to the old HEQ5, EQ4 (I think), Meade LXD-75, and some Vixen tripods. What may differ on some of these is the length (height) of the azimuth adjustment post so some adapting might be necessary.

The iEXOS-100 was designed to be a lightweight, small mount at a low price point. It is an excellent value for its price point. As you know, one of the major advantages of the iEXOS-100 is it can be adapted for use with their heavier duty tripods which will increase the specified weight capacity. You won't find this advantage with most other entry-level mounts. There is no other mount like it so it should come as no surprise that the very lightweight ST1 tripod it comes with has been designed uniquely but not so uniquely that it cannot be easily adapted for use with the ST2/3 tripods and all of the other aforementioned tripods that have been almost identical for decades.

Every manufacturer uses a different mounting configuration for different mounts. Even different mounts of the same brand differ and are even incompatible with each other. This is nothing new and it is certainly not unique to Explore Scientific.

That being said, a custom adapter can be designed and built by anyone who wants to go down that road. You need to design it and then either manufacture it yourself or hire a metal shop to mill it for you. But, try fitting an EQ6 to an HEQ5 tripod... or vice-versa... or iOptron to Orion... or Losmandy to AstroPhysics... or... well, I could go on and on mentioning different mounts and how they each mount differently but you should get the idea.

One of the reasons that the ST2 and ST3 tripods are rarely in stock is due to their quality at their price point consequently everyone wants one. The other obvious reason, which really shouldn't need to be pointed out, is because the astronomy marketplace has still not fully recovered from the multiple problems created by the pandemic.

Patrick

Can you confirm that the iexos 100 can be used with a eq5 or cg4 tripod, with the azimuth adjusted adapter? I remember it's base being smaller than the base of my current skywatcher eqm 35, which has a tripod just as beefy as the heq5.

I had bought the iexos 100 earlier because it fit my needs and budget then. Now I would consider the azimuth adapter and a sturdy tripod more essential. That upgrade is certainly possible, but the cost then rivals the more established mounts that have a documented payload capacity (inflated as it may be).

Has ES formally stated payload capacity of the iexos 100 with the heavier tripods? The best I could find was Jerry mentioning it in the ES mailing list. And even there, I cannot seem to find the actual spreadsheet he talks about. I seem to test the limit of every mount that I have bought, except the current one. It would be good to know some hard numbers, if they exist somewhere.

It is true that the "traditional" eq mounts use their own tripods that still come from the cg4 style or later. But there are more and more mounts, especially with the payload capacity of the iexos 100 (I am considering imaging capacity, not visual) that can be bought "head-only", and can be mated with third party carbon fiber tripods.

Edited by amitshesh, 27 September 2023 - 10:25 PM.

[PatrickVt]

"Can you confirm that the iexos 100 can be used with a eq5 or cg4 tripod, with the azimuth adjusted adapter?"

 

The EQ5 and HEQ5 are the same...  Celestron used a different numbering system so, I believe, the CG4 is the same as the EQ3 (CG3=EQ2, CG2=EQ1)...  so the CG4 has a different mounting plate than the EQ4/5 and HEQ5.  The EQ4 and EQ5 seem to be the same mounting configuration though.  

 

 

"Has ES formally stated payload capacity of the iexos 100 with the heavier tripods?"

 

As far as I know, ES has not formally claimed anything other than their specs when used with the ST1.  Below is a chart that someone put together (I think it may have been Jerry).  Would I call these "hard numbers"?  Absolutely not.  Other than the high end mounts ($4000+), I would not call any payload specs "hard numbers".  And, of course, keep in mind that moment arm, wind and focal length will affect the stated specs.  

 

 

"It is true that the "traditional" eq mounts use their own tripods that still come from the cg4 style or later. But there are more and more mounts, especially with the payload capacity of the iexos 100 (I am considering imaging capacity, not visual) that can be bought "head-only", and can be mated with third party carbon fiber tripods."

 

Maybe I missed some mount releases but I don't think there are "more and more" mounts with the same payload capacity as the iEXOS-100 especially if we are still talking about GoTo equatorial mounts.  There seem to be more and more trackers out there but I don't follow those announcements closely because they do not interest me in the least nor would I classify a tracker in with a GoTo mount.  They are different products. 

 

As far as I know, the trackers and perhaps the new strain wave mounts that are on the smaller end (AM5?) can be mounted on photographic tripods without serious or any modification.  I don't follow the strain wave community closely for various reasons (ie, price, still in its infancy with typical new product growing pains, etc).  That being said, I believe even the small AM5 is in a higher class of payload capacity than the iEXOS-100 and I think that is the smallest of the strain wave mounts.  Additionally, they are different products anyway...  same purpose but different products.  There is the EQM-35....  but I would also consider the EQM-35 to be in a higher payload weight capacity class.

 

About the EQM-35...  I have seen conflicting reports on whether the EQM-35 has the same mounting dimensions as the EQ/HEQ-5.  Some have stated the Skywatcher claims they are not compatible...  others have claimed that their HEQ5 pier extensions do work with their EQM-35.  If they are compatible, then they would also be compatible with the EXOS2/ST2/ST3/LXD75/Vixen tripods.  I'd recommend more research though before concluding with any certainty that the EQM-35 uses the same tripod as the HEQ-5.  The info is out there, it is just a matter of searching and finding it!

 

This morning, I measured the top plate of my EXOS2 tripod (which the Azimuth Adjuster adapter fits into) so this might be of some use to you.  The hole in the tripod top plate is 60mm in diameter, 20mm deep, and the shoulder of this top plate extends out to 103mm diameter.  Additionally, I recently purchased a pier extension made for EQ5/HEQ-5 and it fit perfectly with no modifications necessary.  

 

Patrick

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[amitshesh]

Az GTI in eq mode, and iOptron skyhunter are two examples. Both have their problems, and the tripod that ships with the az GTI is weak too. But both of them fit on photo tripods, and have wedges that allow fine azimuth and altitude adjustments.

Skywatcher star adventurer GTI (the successor to the star tracker) is probably the better comparator. Same capacity, full eq, go-to and compatible with photo tripod.

I don't trust stated payloads of mounts either, but they are at least a guideline and stated on the product pages. ES can put all the disclaimers they want with their estimates, but at least state the estimates in the product pages. Even the upgraded tripods don't say how much of an upgrade they are, except qualitatively "medium duty", "heavy duty".

[Akinetopsia]

> I don't trust stated payloads of mounts either, but they are at least a guideline and stated on the product pages.

 

I pushed the limits and am way "overload" as I have 20 pounds of counterweights (2x2.2 lb + 3x 5lbs training weights) on that stock tripod I did change the rod for a thicker one though.

 

I'm mainly doing imaging. Guiding is not good, but also not too terrible. I'm still learning PHD so to other more experienced people might think this is an abomination but it serves my purpose for now. Consistently poor seeing at my observing spot probably has more of a detrimental effect than my guiding. All my issues appear to be coming from the tripod that, as i mentioned earlier, twists and wobbles. It's definitely the reason i want to upgrade it to something more sturdy and rigid.

Given my OTA can't really be installed with the viewing tube downwards, I opted to have more weight closer to the pivot instead of less further down for balancing and the mount itself doesn't seem to care one bit. The motors don't appear to be straining, it runs cool and didn't see any worrying power draw. My small 12v/6Ah battery lasts all night, while also powering the cameras and Pi.

 

 

 

That stock tripod is way too flimsy even without any weight on. You can see that in ES's own unboxing video at the 4:15 mark when the host leans on a leg (ok, he's not a small guy) to pick something off of the floor. "We're stable!" he says as that poor mount visibly shifts and twists thanks to the camera close up. In fact it twists as he's tightening the bottom screw just before and that's with the locking plate already installed:

 

https://youtu.be/itylmih1iTg?t=255
 

Edited by Akinetopsia, 28 September 2023 - 04:21 PM.

[hughesthompson]

As others have said the ST-3 tripod is the best upgrade path for the iEXOS-100.  I had that setup and regularly got very good guiding with a 14 pound load and 5 counter-weights.  In my opinion Jerry Hubble's chart is pretty accurate.  The tripod is heavy though and has been out of stock for at least three years.

 

I sold the tripod last year to someone who wanted to upgrade his EQ5.  It did fit which says to me the standard EQ5 tripod should fit the iEXOS-100 with the azimuth adjuster.  It may be similar to the ST-2 tripod which is also a good option (but also out of stock).  In the process of selling the tripod I was told that the EXOS2 and EQ5 were very similar mounts which might account for the compatibility of Skywatcher and Explore Scientific tripods.

 

I had always thought about adapting the iEXOS-100 to a carbon fiber tripod.  My new mount came with an Innorel RT-90c which is very sturdy and light.  Bowl and top plate seem to be the same as the LT324c.  I think the only secure way to attach the ES azimuth adjuster to that tripod would be to make a custom top plate that provides the 10mm bolt, the center recess for the bottom of the azimuth adjuster, and an attachment hole for the adjustment pin.  That type of plate is used by other manufacturers and it may be that ZWO or iOptron plates would be easier to adapt.

Edited by hughesthompson, 28 September 2023 - 04:40 PM.

[wachuko]

Necroing this thread because it still turns up pretty high up in Google when searching for those keywords

 

if ever anyone is looking for a QHYCCD PoleMaster adapter for the iexos mount, i shared this design on Thingiverse as there's still no manufacturer option:

 

iEXOS-100-2 on-axis PoleMaster Adapter plate and saddle

 

 

What a great mod.  Thank you for sharing the .stl files

[Akinetopsia]

What a great mod.  Thank you for sharing the .stl files

Thanks! My pleasure!

Edited by Akinetopsia, 05 October 2023 - 03:28 PM.

[wachuko]

Apologies for the question, but new to all this, on the ST3 tripod mentioned in this thread.  Can someone provide a link to one?  Having a difficult time finding it just with only “ST3 tripod” as search criteria…

 

Thank you in advance for the help.

 

EDIT: I think I found it.  Is it this one?  https://explorescien...st3-white-mount / https://explorescien...st3-black-mount

 

Just thinking outloud... Spending 300.00 for this tripod does not seem like a good idea... I plan, after I get my feet wet and learn, to get a iOptron HAE43 Dual AZ/EQ SWG Mount w/ iPolar  and was planning on matching it to either the iOptron Carbon Fiber tripod or the INNOREL RT90C Carbon Fiber tripod.

 

So I will just wait for my IEXOS to arrive, see how it behaves, in stock form, with my Celestron C6 and if I need to get a better tripod I will just order one of the two above.  I have a milling machine and a lathe in case I need to make an adapter plate or something to get them to work together...

Edited by wachuko, 05 October 2023 - 05:16 PM.

[Akinetopsia]

The ST2/ST3 mounts have been out of stock for what seems like a very long time with no signs of them being restocked anywhere, which is what most of us looking for a sturdier tripod have been deploring. The only ones I found were in Europe, Bresser-branded iirc, but they don't ship to America.

Some people say the EQ5 tripod *should* fit but i'm not interested in purchasing a used "maybe" and be stuck with it after. I'm not against adapters, but i am if they are $100 bucks. I'm looking for future proof tripod for potential upgrades and maybe make a hardwood or 3d printed disk adapter (i have some very tough resins that can def bear that load but with low temperatures there's a risk of shattering).

 

Personally atm as there are unfortunately no good short-term solutions i've put that on the back burner and moved to other priorities.

Edited by Akinetopsia, 05 October 2023 - 05:56 PM.

[PatrickVt]

Most astronomy products went out of stock near the very beginning of the pandemic.  People were trying to find things to do at home, worldwide, and one of the things a seemly large portion of the world population decided that backyard astronomy was one of those things to do at home.  Consequently, inventory was depleted worldwide at the same time that factories were closed.  We are still playing catch-up with production of astronomy products and the factories are still occasionally shutting down due to lingering and fluxing reasons related to the pandemic. 

 

Now, there is a very long queue for production.  There are only certain factories that manufacture JOC products.  This includes all products branded as Explore Scientific, Bresser, Maxvision and probably a few other lesser known brand names.  Each of these brands need to decide which products are most likely to sell immediately and set up their own manufacturing queue.  Virtually all of the astronomy market is still trying to play catch-up.  

 

If you are located in North America, the place to find the ST2 and ST3 tripods would be on the Explore Scientific website.  A select few other vendors may also carry these tripods (the first that comes to mind is Woodland Hills) but I suspect that tripods are not high on the priority list for this expedited post-pandemic manufacturing queue.   Complete mounts are likely a higher priority.  The entire lineup of telescopes is probably a higher priority.  

 

My initial assessment on when the astronomy inventory would mostly recover was sometime in mid-2023 but, by early 2022, I quickly realized that it may take a few more years for the inventory to fully recover.  So, who knows?  2024?  2025?  

 

In the meantime, there is the used marketplace for hard to find items.

 

Patrick

[wachuko]

Received mine.  Had to get a little bit creative with the counterweights as what came with it were not enough to balance the C6.  But it is balanced nicely now.

 

I will now weight what I added and get a proper counterweight.  Using some knockout hole punch dies for now.

 

Downloading all the software to test it... oh, and ordered a power supply... 

 

Very happy that my tripod had the hole drilled for the Azimuth Adjuster tab.  No drilling required!

 

 

Edited by wachuko, 10 October 2023 - 12:04 PM.

[vidrazor]

Received mine.  Had to get a little bit creative with the counterweights as what came with it were not enough to balance the C6.  But it is balanced nicely now.

I will now weight what I added and get a proper counterweight.  Using some knockout hole punch dies for now.

Bring DEC to 0° and check you RA balance. You'll probably discover you're not balanced. The bearings on this unit have significant stiction, and the heavier the load (as is the case on your rig) the higher the stiction.

For visual work you'll probably be fine "balancing" as you have, but for astrophotography you'll need to have better actual balance.
 

[wachuko]

Bring DEC to 0° and check you RA balance. You'll probably discover you're not balanced. The bearings on this unit have significant stiction, and the heavier the load (as is the case on your rig) the higher the stiction.

For visual work you'll probably be fine "balancing" as you have, but for astrophotography you'll need to have better actual balance.
 

As you can tell, new to all this... thank you!  Will check again.

 

Progressing with the software setup...

 

[vidrazor]

As you can tell, new to all this... thank you! Will check againProgressing with the software setup...

Yeah the present firmware is actually fuctional. Used to be a ritual just to switch between WiFi and USB control. Dunno if they ever modified ExploreStars to also work through USB, as it only worked through WiFi.

[wachuko]

Yeah the present firmware is actually fuctional. Used to be a ritual just to switch between WiFi and USB control. Dunno if they ever modified ExploreStars to also work through USB, as it only worked through WiFi.

Have not gotten to that point... the battery pack it comes with came with a missing spring.  I had to make something to bridge the batteries... oh, and the C batteries I have, 4 were not fully charged... so I have enough power to do the programming but not enough to drive the motors... 12 volts power supply should be here tomorrow.

 

ExploreStars - as far as I can tell, still WiFi... I did the install and was able to load the database both in the windows PC and in the Amazon Fire Tablet (had format the SD card on the Fire Tablet then pull it out and load the files to the SD card on the PC... but it worked).

 

I can see why many folks got frustrated with these mounts.  You need some solving skills, it is not a mount you take out of the box and start using right away...  My first mount, not sure if the rest are the same, doubt it... 

 

Anyway, so far, all going well... will be able to fully test  on Thursday... 

Edited by wachuko, 10 October 2023 - 02:24 PM.

[vidrazor]

Anyway, so far, all going well... will be able to fully test on Thursday...

It'll probably snow on Thursday...

[wachuko]

It'll probably snow on Thursday...

 

 

Let me correct that... I will be able to test it with full power, on Thursday.  To make sure motors work and I can move it with the app.  Doubt I will be able to "fully" test it this week...   

 

And you were right... DEC to 0° and had to move the counterweights to balance it.

Edited by wachuko, 10 October 2023 - 02:45 PM.

[vidrazor]

And you were right... DEC to 0° and had to move the counterweights to balance it.

If you tip the mount rearward and have the DEC axis parallel to the ground, you can balance the same way in DEC, as DEC bearings also suffer from the same stiction.

 

If you plan to do any astrophotography, you can mark off the areas on the RA shaft with tape after balancing at 0°, and mark off two eastern bias points on the shaft so you can shift them after a meridian flip and still have an eastern bias and not worry about re-balancing. Astrophotography with your rig will definitely require autoguiding, otherwise you'll get about 10 seconds unguided with your setup. You can probably get about 2 minutes guided with your rig. Fortunately the ASCOM drivers work now, which was not always the case. The INDI driver for Linux and Macs also works, in case you may be considering Ekos.

 

Instead of getting a bunch of counterweights, you can get one 11lb counterweight at Ali Express which will balance your rig in RA.

Edited by vidrazor, 10 October 2023 - 05:12 PM.

[wachuko]

...Instead of getting a bunch of counterweights, you can get one 11lb counterweight at Ali Express which will balance your rig in RA.

I have had these punch dies for over 24 years and have never been used, lol...  they will be fine for now.  I made a bushing out of Delrin, to get a better fit.  Total weight added with those dies was 4.2 lbs 

 

Watch me needing one next week... 

 

[vidrazor]

I have had these punch dies for over 24 years and have never been used, lol...  they will be fine for now.  I made a bushing out of Delrin, to get a better fit.  Total weight added with those dies was 4.2 lbs 

Watch me needing one next week...

Yes but you're at the end of the shaft. You want the weight closer to the center of gravity, near the rotational axis of RA. You want this any time you balance a mount, but especially so when you've past the weight capacity of a mount, as is the case here. Counterintuitively, more weight near the center of gravity is better than less weight further out.

 

You want the counterweight(s) further up the shaft, something more like what you see below. This, along with proper balancing (by temporarily overcoming stiction in RA and DEC) will make the mount more stable and allow it to track better. This is why I suggested the larger weight.
 

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[wachuko]

Yes but you're at the end of the shaft. You want the weight closer to the center of gravity, near the rotational axis of RA. You want this any time you balance a mount, but especially so when you've past the weight capacity of a mount, as is the case here. Counterintuitively, more weight near the center of gravity is better than less weight further out.

 

You want the counterweight(s) further up the shaft, something more like what you see below. This, along with proper balancing (by temporarily overcoming stiction in RA and DEC) will make the mount more stable and allow it to track better. This is why I suggested the larger weight.
 

Ahhhhh.... so much to learn.  Got it.  I had added it to my wish list.  Let me place the order.  Thanks again.

[wachuko]

Yeah baby! Yeah!!  It lives!

 

https://youtu.be/LFC...ToLZHPjcsWOquQi

 

EDIT: Watched the video... weird cranking noise is my elbow on the chair ​ , not the mount!

Edited by wachuko, 11 October 2023 - 03:45 PM.

[vidrazor]

Yeah baby! Yeah!!  It lives!

https://youtu.be/LFC...ToLZHPjcsWOquQi

EDIT: Watched the video... weird cranking noise is my elbow on the chair ​ , not the mount!

Yes, the musical mount. Hope your DEC is balanced.

 

BTW, what are you riding?