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10" Starliner

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#51 Jeff B

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Posted 01 January 2019 - 04:54 PM

Here's a pic of the spider

That is a Novak spider and secondary holder.  Good quality. waytogo.gif



#52 paulabuls

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Posted 01 January 2019 - 04:58 PM

That is a Novak spider and secondary holder.  Good quality. waytogo.gif

So, it looks like this is a Heinz 57 scope. We have a Star-Liner mount and mirror, a Cave mirror cell, a Novak spider, a Meade focuser and an as yet unidentified motor drive. 

 

Sweet!



#53 paulabuls

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Posted 01 January 2019 - 05:20 PM

So, here's a question. Did Star-Liner make their own drives? If not who made them. I wonder if an original drive might show up. I'm not allows access to the classifieds for 30 days so have to wait to shop. frown.gif



#54 clamchip

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Posted 01 January 2019 - 05:28 PM

It might also be Star-Liner was using these products on their scopes, like the excellent Novak spider

and secondary holder.

That Meade focuser you have seems shorter than the norm, you may have a Meade 682:

https://www.cloudyni...-focuser-maybe/

I have the tall one on my Star-Liner, a generic, these focusers were made in Japan and sold by just about

everybody. They are great focusers.

 

Robert



#55 paulabuls

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Posted 01 January 2019 - 05:42 PM

It might also be Star-Liner was using these products on their scopes, like the excellent Novak spider

and secondary holder.

That Meade focuser you have seems shorter than the norm, you may have a Meade 682:

https://www.cloudyni...-focuser-maybe/

I have the tall one on my Star-Liner, a generic, these focusers were made in Japan and sold by just about

everybody. They are great focusers.

 

Robert

Hi Robert. Good call. The focuser tube (not sure of the correct term) stands 2 3/4 inches proud of the base when fully extended. Defs sounds like the 682. Good to know its a solid focuser. I'm glad it had the 1 1/4 adapter already in place. I don't have an eye piece yet so will need to wait for my time to be up to purchase through the classifieds.

 

Meade 682

Edited by paulabuls, 01 January 2019 - 05:57 PM.

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#56 Geo31

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Posted 01 January 2019 - 08:17 PM

I’m guessing the OTA is ATM.  I had a mirror cell just like that for my 10” mirror in the mid 70s.  I don’t think Cave’s cells were proprietary.  It may take a little doing to work out an appropriate worm.  I agree it looks a lot like Opticraft.

 

The mount is clearly Star Liner.

 

Right now it appears to be a disjointed puzzle, but some patience will be a big help.

 

I’d work on the dec shaft and counterweight first, pedestal tube and feet.  Shouldn’t be too tough.



#57 paulabuls

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Posted 01 January 2019 - 08:59 PM

Thanks for all the help guys. I feel like I made some real progress today.

 

A couple of questions. The dec shaft is 1 3/4 " solid. How long should it be? Looks like that's not cheap stuff. A 3 foot section at Grainger's is $97 I can probably find it a bit cheaper if I look around but it is definitely pricey. And, that's for cast iron which I am sure is not the best.

 

Same basic question if I have to buy tube stock for the base. How high should that be? What grade steel?

 

Thanks in advance, y'all are amazing.

 

-Paula



#58 clamchip

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Posted 01 January 2019 - 09:32 PM

My Star-Liner is a 12.5" with 2" shafts so I'm probably not much help but here is a photo

of the mount so you can get an idea of the lengths.

I buy my metals from Metal Supermarkets:

https://www.metalsupermarkets.com/

The last time I ordered a dec shaft for a Edmund mount I bought polished tool steel but I think if I

was to do it again I would buy stainless steel probably polished to the size of your bearings.

The bearings if yours are the same are around $100 each so clean and regrease they will be fine.

Don't worry about the drive, you don't need it to use the telescope right now.

Robert

 

IMG_8286.jpg

post-50896-0-24310400-1506894314_thumb.jpg


Edited by clamchip, 01 January 2019 - 09:42 PM.

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#59 paulabuls

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Posted 01 January 2019 - 09:46 PM

My Star-Liner is a 12.5" with 2" shafts so I'm probably not much help but here is a photo

of the mount so you can get an idea of the lengths.

I buy my metals from Metal Supermarkets:

https://www.metalsupermarkets.com/

The last time I ordered a dec shaft for a Edmund mount I bought polished tool steel but I think if I

was to do it again I would buy stainless steel probably polished to the size of your bearings.

The bearings if yours are the same are around $100 each so clean and regrease they will be fine.

Don't worry about the drive, you don't need it to use the telescope right now.

Robert

 

attachicon.gif IMG_8286.jpg

attachicon.gif post-50896-0-24310400-1506894314_thumb.jpg

So are there bearings on both the main shaft and the dec shaft? Unfortunately, those are on the MIA list.



#60 clamchip

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Posted 01 January 2019 - 10:46 PM

I'm not sure how similar the 10 inch and 12.5 are



#61 paulabuls

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Posted 01 January 2019 - 11:19 PM

My guess is bearings couldn’t hurt. We have a pretty good bearing place here in Austin. I can probably take the mount there (once I have purchased the shaft) and see what they say.

#62 apfever

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Posted 01 January 2019 - 11:42 PM

Are you sure about your shaft size?  My 8" has 1.625" (1-5/8") shafts on both DEC and RA. As far as I know my mount is the same one used on the 10" at that time. The mirror on my 8" is dated 1966.

I've never taken my mount apart.



#63 paulabuls

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Posted 02 January 2019 - 10:28 AM

Are you sure about your shaft size?  My 8" has 1.625" (1-5/8") shafts on both DEC and RA. As far as I know my mount is the same one used on the 10" at that time. The mirror on my 8" is dated 1966.

I've never taken my mount apart.

I'll check. I had thought the shaft size of the RA was also 1 3/4 but when I did a rough check of it this morning it looks closer to 1 1/2.

 

I'm curious if you could check the shaft length of your dec shaft.

 

Thanks,

 

Paula



#64 Geo31

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Posted 02 January 2019 - 10:57 AM

McMaster-Carr is your friend for a lot of restoration parts:

 

https://www.mcmaster.com/

 

You can get shafts, bearings, knobs, and more.


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#65 paulabuls

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Posted 02 January 2019 - 11:40 AM

McMaster-Carr is your friend for a lot of restoration parts:

 

https://www.mcmaster.com/

 

You can get shafts, bearings, knobs, and more.

Excellent! I'm back at work today so it'll be a little harder to devote my day to working on this. I am curious though about the bearings. I still haven't been able to open up the RA shaft assy. The parts are a tad stuck and I'm wanting to slowly keep working PB Blaster into the joints to loosen it. I'm curious as to what bearings will be found there. I'm also curious about the bearings people might have on their DEC shaft. The shaft and any related bearings are missing from my assy. I'm not sure if all the models had bearings on both shafts or not. It's possible that on the DEC it was just something like a thrust washer. As I get things apart, I'm sure the McMaster Carr friendship will deepen and grow. grin.gif



#66 apfever

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Posted 02 January 2019 - 11:58 AM

Whoa, I'm in error.  This is 1.75" shaft, that's nuts for an 8" scope. I thought it was 1.625" and I'm sure I have a scope with that so I'll have to check.

Just took these, have a bunch all lengths and so on.  just did the calculator on this and found diameter is 1.75".

 

Paula, you're grabbing horns on this about as fast as you seem to get information, and your getting language pretty quick which says something so I'm not going to overly underestimate capability.  Here's the shaft diameter. I wrapped the cheesy piece of garbage tape because it's narrow, and wrapped the shaft. I picked 9" mark and 3.5" mark since they were darn close enough. That made the circumference 5.5" close enough. Calculator to divide 5.5" by pi (3.1416 is handy and closer than you should ever need) and the shaft is 1.75" diameter to less than a thousandth.  Any thing handy close on the circumference is good since you reduce your error by over a third. On this size shaft you can use a regular width tape.

 

Here's the lower part of the shaft. It is 13-1/4" from end to the flared cap on the DEC housing. This picture happened to fit size wise with the diameter thing.  I'll get back to all the stuff on this shaft and total measurements, but get a bigger picture first.  I thought this was the same mount as the 10". 

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#67 apfever

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Posted 02 January 2019 - 12:17 PM

Honestly this room sometimes....so I ended up just sitting on the stairs, that black speckled thing in the middle red elipse, and an actual Star-Liner 8" OTA, which is not what you have, laying on the stuff on the table on the left on.

I'll get to OTA just to show the cell.  oh, a Cave cell 10" looks like. So your scope is 10" which would be a tube diameter of half way close to roughly about 12" diameter or so?  You have enough Star-Liner to make something nice of it. I'll get to tape measures but in terms of ordering a shaft, considering longer for custom capability. Lets get to cells so you can see the hoopla on "Cave" and Star-Liner.  And I'm tired of "Star-Liner" already considering so that's SL.

 

oh wait so lower right corner is this Edmund thing and it's about to become memory toast so I have to just do that or never more posting the big idea on that stuff.

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#68 apfever

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Posted 02 January 2019 - 12:30 PM

SL 8" and 10" as far as I know. The other side is prettier with knobs, level and just more stuff.

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#69 paulabuls

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Posted 02 January 2019 - 01:25 PM

SL 8" and 10" as far as I know. The other side is prettier with knobs, level and just more stuff.

So, my understanding is that the 8" and 10" may have used the same mount. I'm glad to hear the confirmation about the shaft diameter. And you're saying on your SL the RA is also 1.75" diameter? Oddly enough, My RA may be 1.5". I'll know more once the PB Blaster has had a chance to loosen it up and I can disassemble it. What about bearings on the DEC? Since those are not present on mine (it came without the DEC shaft) I was uncertain whether it had bearings on the DEC shaft or just a thrust washer. Do you know on yours?

 

Regarding my OTA, it is indeed 12" diameter. The mirror cell is CAVE but the mirror is not. Best guess is it's SL (56.3 FL). The spider appears to be NOVAK and the Focuser is Meade 2" possibly model 632 I am missing any eyepieces. At this point my best guess is the drive assy is Optic-craft. I've downloaded their tech info and need to count the teeth on the drive gear but I know I am also missing some pieces to it. If I can confirm it to be Optic-Craft I may be able to source the parts from them. The pieces missing are the pieces needed to connect the motor (a Hurst 2.0 RPM motor) to the drive gear. (I did verify the RPMs with a stop watch.) So yeah, the whole unit is Heinz 57. I'm good with that. I think once restored it'll be a great instrument.

 

Thanks for taking those measurements. BTW. I'm drooling over that room full of scopes. 

 

Cheers,

 

Paula



#70 apfever

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Posted 02 January 2019 - 02:41 PM

Start here so you can see where I'll measure to for DEC shaft length. I've never had this apart and can't say what the RA shaft diameter is. This picture should match what you have for the measured center assembly.

The flared end caps and the single cast center DEC housing are a single attached unit. The whole length is 11-3/8" shown on the tape.  The rotation interface is at those points on the tape, 0" and 11-3/8".  The saddle rotates at the top junction and the aluminum setting circle rotates at the bottom junction.   Since I've never had this apart I'll measure from the bottom of the whole DEC shaft to the top saddle junction.  The actual length of 1.75" shaft could go as much as 1.5" further up into the saddle.

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#71 apfever

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Posted 02 January 2019 - 02:53 PM

The length of my DEC shaft is 24.75"  (2'-3/4") from bottom end to bottom of the saddle it goes into.  I think it goes into the saddle close to 1.5" so the total bar is 26.25"  (2' 2-3/4").

I would add at least 4"  for a custom length at my latitude (mount angle), coordinated with the length of the legs. A 6" add would start to be a swing hazard.

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#72 apfever

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Posted 02 January 2019 - 02:59 PM

Here's the 8" SL in the tube, and a 10" Cave. The Cave is 1958 so you get an idea of how much the cells have changed. 

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#73 Garyth64

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Posted 02 January 2019 - 03:08 PM

That 8" mirror cell looks identical to one that I have.  I bought it new about 1970, but I don't remember from who.

 

Part of it I used for my 8" Gregorian:

 

mirror cell 001b.jpg

 

The other part is in a box somewhere.


Edited by Garyth64, 02 January 2019 - 03:12 PM.

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#74 Geo31

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Posted 02 January 2019 - 03:22 PM

I think I've read here before that Star-Liner used different diameter shafts in some mounts.



#75 apfever

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Posted 02 January 2019 - 04:22 PM

You'll need a pier pipe. Mine is 6" O.D. and thin wall. I haven't laid this over to measure the wall thickness. You just need to slip onto the hub collar up to the rim . 
Your middle picture in post #21 shows a hub collar that may be hair over 5.5" diameter, and the wall thickness on my pipe is sure less than 1/4".  You don't want the pipe ID too small but the closer the better for stability.

 

My pipe is 17-1/8" tall and looking at it, that should be fine for a 10" F6.  It is steel. You can custom your pipe length, maybe get a break for something in stock instead of a custom cut. A flat 17" would be just fine.

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