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Thinking of buying a C11 ... what accessories would you recommend?

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#1 DMach

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Posted 02 January 2019 - 06:30 PM

Hi all,

 

I'm steeling my nerves to drop a bunch of cash and purchase a C11. I'll primarily be using it for planetary imaging and visual work, so I think I'll go with the XLT ... figure I can buy a bunch of neat accessories for the extra money an Edge would cost.

 

What accessories would you all recommend prioritising?

 

I currently have a 6SE with the following accessories:

  • CEM60 mount
  • ZWO ADC
  • Baader Clicklock SCT adapter (with 1.25" converter)
  • Baader Zeiss Prism Diagonal
  • PowerMate 2.5 and 5.0
  • Celestron 0.63 reducer/corrector
  • Various eyepieces
  • ASI290MC planetary camera, ASI174MM Mini guide cam
  • Celestron OAG
  • Various adapters and extension tubes

And probably some others that I'm forgetting.  smile.gif

 

Will my Baader Clicklock adapter fit on the C11 XLT?

 

Is there any point converting my Baader diagonal to 2" fittings and using 2" eyepieces?

 

Thanks in advance!


Edited by DMach, 02 January 2019 - 10:38 PM.


#2 Scott Beith

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Posted 02 January 2019 - 06:38 PM

Looks like you have the accessories covered.  Have you considered that you can run active cooling with the Edge model using Tempest fans?

 

Whichever way you go I think you will have a seriously nice setup.



#3 Wire

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Posted 02 January 2019 - 06:47 PM

You forgot the overhead jack. When I bought mine, I didn't realize how heavy 30 lbs is lifting it as high as your head.  Seriously, you may want to think about getting a dovetail for the top and a set of ADM handles so you can lift it. The dove tail can also double as a mount for another scope or for AP.  


Edited by Wire, 02 January 2019 - 06:50 PM.

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#4 Kokatha man

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Posted 02 January 2019 - 08:00 PM

You forgot the overhead jack. When I bought mine, I didn't realize how heavy 30 lbs is lifting it as high as your head.  Seriously, you may want to think about getting a dovetail for the top and a set of ADM handles so you can lift it. The dove tail can also double as a mount for another scope or for AP.  

I'm constantly & continuously amazed at the number of fellas wanting to try out their weight-lifting techniques with C11's & C14's - <"30 lbs is lifting it as high as your head"> lol.gif 

 

With the proviso that both of these scopes I own(ed) had handles on the rear-casing (although only one on the much lighter C11) I cannot see any reason why anyone would not appreciate that standing these scopes face-down (ie, corrector plate end) on a sturdy box the correct height next to the mount (possibly with a piece or two of ply etc to achieve the exact height) then it becomes a simple, much easier way to engage them in their mounts..!

 

Obviously the mount's RA is heeled over to have the jaws perpendicular to the ground whereby the dovetail bar of the scope simply engages with said jaws whilst on the box...

 

These days we use a hydraulic lift table with the C14 which I have fitted braked wheels to - not absolutely essential...but it makes things extremely easy & I am after all going to be 70 this year...we cart the C14 around everywhere btw! wink.gif

 

Incidentally, non-Edge C14's have the vents that the Edges possess also - no manufacturer in their right minds would produce 2 separate rear-casings for essentially similar scopes - but in looking up C11 pikkies it seems the non-Edge C11's (XLT's) don't possess vents..?!? bigshock.gif looney.sml.gif 

 

LiftTable.jpg


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#5 stevew

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Posted 02 January 2019 - 10:31 PM

Get yourself a good dew shield, a dew heater, and a Lymax cat cooler..

 

Steve



#6 DMach

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Posted 02 January 2019 - 11:17 PM

Thanks for the replies so far!

 

Looks like you have the accessories covered.  Have you considered that you can run active cooling with the Edge model using Tempest fans?

 

Whichever way you go I think you will have a seriously nice setup.

Yes, I did consider the advantage of the vents ... but given the XLT is going for $1,800 (versus $3,500 for the Edge) I'm having trouble justifying the extra cost. If I planned to use if for DSO AP as well, might be a different story ...

 

You forgot the overhead jack. When I bought mine, I didn't realize how heavy 30 lbs is lifting it as high as your head.  Seriously, you may want to think about getting a dovetail for the top and a set of ADM handles so you can lift it. The dove tail can also double as a mount for another scope or for AP.  

You read my mind on this one - even with my 6SE, fitting it with tube rings (with top and bottom dovetails) is one of the better things I've done, makes the setup very flexible.

 

Incidentally, non-Edge C14's have the vents that the Edges possess also - no manufacturer in their right minds would produce 2 separate rear-casings for essentially similar scopes - but in looking up C11 pikkies it seems the non-Edge C11's (XLT's) don't possess vents..?!? bigshock.gif looney.sml.gif 

Yup, saw they have "upgraded" the C14 XLT with vents, but haven't gotten around to it with the C11 ... yet? I was wondering whether a pending new model is the reason OPT and HighPoint are offering the C11 at such a discounted price lately ...

 

In any case, I think the C11 is all my CEM60 will be able to handle?

 

Get yourself a good dew shield, a dew heater, and a Lymax cat cooler..

 

Steve

Yup, a dew shield will be a high priority. Being in the tropics, I haven't needed a dew heater as yet ... except when I travel, but I don't think a C11 would be all that compatible with airline travel.

 

I will need to think about a cooling option for sure ...


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#7 DMach

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Posted 02 January 2019 - 11:18 PM

Actually, one more question: what electronic focuser would people recommend for the C11?



#8 Jeff B

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Posted 02 January 2019 - 11:40 PM

A good bino-viewer of course.



#9 Ryan555_1

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Posted 03 January 2019 - 12:33 AM

Get some sort of active cooling if possible. The scope takes a long time to cool, and, more importantly, continues to have thermal currents in the tube throughout the night. It really effects the seeing. If you get an edge, the TEMPest fans are the way to go. They are excellent, really. Hopefully the non-edge has some equivalent if not. I am not certain myself.

Also, get eyepieces! The 30mm, 20mm, and 14mm range really shine. But I assume by accessories you are excluding them for now.

#10 svenk123

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Posted 03 January 2019 - 04:18 AM

You may also need:

 

- Bahtinov Mask

- Dew shield and/or dew heater stripe



#11 MikeBOKC

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Posted 03 January 2019 - 08:51 AM

Dew shield for sure. Also the Feathertouch 10:1 focuser is the best thing I did for my 11.


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#12 Reid W

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Posted 03 January 2019 - 10:06 AM

For under $15, pick up a roll of Reflectex and at least cover the dew shield...
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#13 jallbery

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Posted 03 January 2019 - 11:33 AM

Hi all,

 

I'm steeling my nerves to drop a bunch of cash and purchase a C11. I'll primarily be using it for planetary imaging and visual work, so I think I'll go with the XLT ... figure I can buy a bunch of neat accessories for the extra money an Edge would cost.

 

What accessories would you all recommend prioritising?

 

I currently have a 6SE with the following accessories:

  • CEM60 mount
  • ZWO ADC
  • Baader Clicklock SCT adapter (with 1.25" converter)
  • Baader Zeiss Prism Diagonal
  • PowerMate 2.5 and 5.0
  • Celestron 0.63 reducer/corrector
  • Various eyepieces
  • ASI290MC planetary camera, ASI174MM Mini guide cam
  • Celestron OAG
  • Various adapters and extension tubes

And probably some others that I'm forgetting.  smile.gif

 

Will my Baader Clicklock adapter fit on the C11 XLT?

 

Is there any point converting my Baader diagonal to 2" fittings and using 2" eyepieces?

 

Thanks in advance!

>>Will my Baader Clicklock adapter fit on the C11 XLT?

Yep.  C11s actually have two sets of threads: standard 2" SCT threads, and a larger, 3.25" set of threads that can be accessed by removing the 3.25" to 2" adapter on the back of the scope.  So yes, you could use the Baader Clicklock visual back with the 2" threads.   

 

However, the rear baffle tube of a c11 is 54mm wide.  Using the 2" adapter and a 2" SCT visual back (or 2" SCT diagonal)  fails to take maximum advantage of this when using the widest 2" eyepieces, adding a bit of vignetting.  For this reason, Baader makes a Clicklock visual back that threads directly on the the 3.25" threads:

https://agenaastro.c...sct-thread.html

 

This larger adapter with a 2" diagonal would be the best way to go if you want a Clicklock solution, as it will will help to minimize vignetting with the widest TFOV 2" eyepieces. 

 

>>Is there any point converting my Baader diagonal to 2" fittings and using 2" eyepieces?

The Baader T2 diagonal only has a 34mm clear path.  Baader does not recommended it for 2" eyepieces, as it will cause vignetting.

 

 

The F/6.3 R/C has a clear aperture of 41mm, so, again, it will add a bit of vignetting when used on a C11 compared to using the larger visual back and a 2" diagonal.

 

All that said, the vignetting caused by limiting the light path from 46mm to 41-42mm (using the R/C or a 2" SCT visual back or diagonal) is not going to be readily apparent to a visual observer.   I'd avoid choking it down to 34mm, though.  

 

Most C11 users use 2" dielectric diagonals, as  2" prism diagonals are rather expensive.  Your prism should still be a better pick for planetary viewing or splitting doubles at the highest magnifications, though.  To max out the TFOV on a non-EdgeHD SCT with a 2" diagonal, a 38mm SWA/Q70 is a nice affordable alternative to a 41mm Panoptic or 40mm ES68.  Or a 55-56mm Plossl, if you also want to maximize exit pupil.


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#14 Bean614

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Posted 03 January 2019 - 07:54 PM

For under $15, pick up a roll of Reflectex and at least cover the dew shield...

100% agreed!!!  Forget fans and cooling.  Wrap your tube in Reflectix, along with the dew shield, and your thermal issues are gone.



#15 Kokatha man

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Posted 03 January 2019 - 08:58 PM

100% agreed!!!  Forget fans and cooling.  Wrap your tube in Reflectix, along with the dew shield, and your thermal issues are gone.

...perhaps you haven't read choward's latest tome..?!? :lol:



#16 Bean614

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Posted 03 January 2019 - 10:23 PM

...perhaps you haven't read choward's latest tome..?!? lol.gif

I most certainly did, several times in fact.  He has been doing outstanding, tireless, and unfortunately, almost thankless work.  And, much as you may, as usual, disagree with me, there is nothing in there to dissuade me, or thousands of others, from using Reflectix (or aluminum foil) on our scopes to enable them to be used Immediately upon being brought outdoors and mounted, with extremely sharp views, with no need to put them out HOURS ahead of time while 'praying' the tube reaches acclimation in the dead of Winter. To the contrary, a careful read of his last few ''tomes" will reveal quite a few "helpful hints", as it were, for those of us looking to perfect our insulation techniques.



#17 Jaimo!

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Posted 03 January 2019 - 11:21 PM

Thousands...?  scratchhead2.gif

 

Jaimo!



#18 DMach

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Posted 04 January 2019 - 01:57 AM

Dew shield for sure. Also the Feathertouch 10:1 focuser is the best thing I did for my 11.

I did add a Feathertouch to my 6SE, and agree it gives a much better experience. I do want to set up an electronic focuser on the C11 though, toying with other options such as the FastFocus from Optec.

 

For under $15, pick up a roll of Reflectex and at least cover the dew shield...

Definitely considering the Reflectix approach. A cheap experiment even if it doesn't work for me ... suspect it should work well in my circumstances though, as the temperature delta from day to night is relatively small in the tropics.

 

>>Will my Baader Clicklock adapter fit on the C11 XLT?

Yep.  C11s actually have two sets of threads: standard 2" SCT threads, and a larger, 3.25" set of threads that can be accessed by removing the 3.25" to 2" adapter on the back of the scope.  So yes, you could use the Baader Clicklock visual back with the 2" threads.   

 

However, the rear baffle tube of a c11 is 54mm wide.  Using the 2" adapter and a 2" SCT visual back (or 2" SCT diagonal)  fails to take maximum advantage of this when using the widest 2" eyepieces, adding a bit of vignetting.  For this reason, Baader makes a Clicklock visual back that threads directly on the the 3.25" threads:

https://agenaastro.c...sct-thread.html

 

This larger adapter with a 2" diagonal would be the best way to go if you want a Clicklock solution, as it will will help to minimize vignetting with the widest TFOV 2" eyepieces. 

 

>>Is there any point converting my Baader diagonal to 2" fittings and using 2" eyepieces?

The Baader T2 diagonal only has a 34mm clear path.  Baader does not recommended it for 2" eyepieces, as it will cause vignetting.

 

 

The F/6.3 R/C has a clear aperture of 41mm, so, again, it will add a bit of vignetting when used on a C11 compared to using the larger visual back and a 2" diagonal.

 

All that said, the vignetting caused by limiting the light path from 46mm to 41-42mm (using the R/C or a 2" SCT visual back or diagonal) is not going to be readily apparent to a visual observer.   I'd avoid choking it down to 34mm, though.  

 

Most C11 users use 2" dielectric diagonals, as  2" prism diagonals are rather expensive.  Your prism should still be a better pick for planetary viewing or splitting doubles at the highest magnifications, though.  To max out the TFOV on a non-EdgeHD SCT with a 2" diagonal, a 38mm SWA/Q70 is a nice affordable alternative to a 41mm Panoptic or 40mm ES68.  Or a 55-56mm Plossl, if you also want to maximize exit pupil.

Thanks for taking the time with this detailed response, extremely helpful!



#19 Larry Adams

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Posted 04 January 2019 - 11:30 AM

Celestron's new focuser for $200 looks interesting. I may get one for my C11 XLT. I have been doing EAA and the remote focusing would be useful!

 

Larry



#20 Ryan555_1

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Posted 04 January 2019 - 12:28 PM

Celestron's new focuser for $200 looks interesting. I may get one for my C11 XLT. I have been doing EAA and the remote focusing would be useful!

 

Larry

Which focuser are you referring to?



#21 Larry Adams

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Posted 04 January 2019 - 03:48 PM

Which focuser are you referring to?

https://www.celestro...-sct-and-edgehd


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#22 Foundationer

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Posted 04 January 2019 - 06:55 PM

I would recommend an observatory and a chairwaytogo.gif



#23 Kokatha man

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Posted 04 January 2019 - 08:04 PM

I most certainly did, several times in fact.  He has been doing outstanding, tireless, and unfortunately, almost thankless work.  And, much as you may, as usual, disagree with me, there is nothing in there to dissuade me, or thousands of others, from using Reflectix (or aluminum foil) on our scopes to enable them to be used Immediately upon being brought outdoors and mounted, with extremely sharp views, with no need to put them out HOURS ahead of time while 'praying' the tube reaches acclimation in the dead of Winter. To the contrary, a careful read of his last few ''tomes" will reveal quite a few "helpful hints", as it were, for those of us looking to perfect our insulation techniques.

Substitute "medicinal compound" for "Reflectix" - Lily The Pink lyrics by The Scaffold  wink.gif

 

We'll drink a drink, a drink
To Lily the Pink, the Pink, the Pink
The saviour of the human race
For she invented, medicinal compound
Most efficacious in every case (chorus)

 

Mr. Freers, had sticky out ears
And it made him awful shy
And so they gave him medicinal compound
And now he's learning how to fly

 

(chorus)

 

Robert Tony, was known to be bony
He would never eat his meals
And so they gave him medicinal compound
Now they move him round on wheels

 

(chorus)

 

Old Ebenezer thought he was Julius Caesar
And so they put him in a home
Where they gave him medicinal compound
And now he's emperor of Rome

 

(chorus)

 

Thousands...?  scratchhead2.gif

 

Jaimo!

...poetic license I believe..! bigshock.gif lol.gif

 

Actually, one more question: what electronic focuser would people recommend for the C11?

DMach, you did state initially that you would be <"primarily be using it for planetary imaging and visual work"> (I won't ask what else you might be going to get up to with it! wink.gif ) so some sort of after-market focuser is a "must" imo.

 

I expect you'll use the ASI290MC you already have so one of the more expensive types such as the Moonlite would not be so imperative. (I have 2, both with DRO boxes etc - I can heartily recommend these to anyone btw)

 

Colour camera are not sensitive to individual filter focus changes like is necessary for a mono cam (despite filter manufacturers' "parfocal" claims) but you'd still need a motor-driven type to get best focus...I would not recommend any type that drives the primary focus knob - that's best left alone once you establish the focal plane for your imaging/observing trains - so any after-market focuser such as the Crayford twin speeds with any half-decent drive attachment that gives you slow as well as fast rates would be a real boon.

 

One issue with some of these however is that they cannot be disengaged which can be a p.i.t.a. at times. smile.gif



#24 DMach

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Posted 04 January 2019 - 09:56 PM

DMach, you did state initially that you would be <"primarily be using it for planetary imaging and visual work"> (I won't ask what else you might be going to get up to with it! wink.gif

Maybe the occasional platonic hug, but our relationship will remain strictly professional.  ;)

 

Seriously though, I may succumb to the temptation of imaging the occasional DSO image, but probably quick and easy stuff like star clusters ... having trouble finding the time to image the dim stuff right now. For the vast majority of the time though, it will be for objects (well) within the heliosphere ... the planets are what my young son is obsessed with anyway.

 

Thanks Darryl, appreciate your expert input!




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