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Starwave 102ED f11 (yes, ED)

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#601 Timo I

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Posted 20 August 2020 - 03:12 PM

I guess I'd need to chime in here too, because I have now bought a TS version of this F/11 refractor. smile.gif

I was looking this kind of parallel visual setup to my existing TMB 152/1200 (LZOS) APO and I did not want to put too much financials for such scope, because I know I won't use it as my primary scope anyway. (I'm sort of torn apart between my imaging and visual observing needs and wishes here.) This TS-Optics 102 mm f/11 ED seemed to fit to this dual need here quite perfectly. In short, do I like this ED refractor as my secondary scope? Yes, I do!

 

This ED model seems to tick all boxes listed below:

* Decent size and light weigth 4" refractor to compliment my current 6" TMB scope (it actually seems to fit quite perfectly on my TMB's piggy-bag setup :-)

* Good image quality (excellent when considering its' price tag).

* Much better RAP focuser compared to average Chinese Crayford focusers seen in most cheapish ED scopes.

* F/11 gives best visuals for any eyepieces you throw to it. Flat and sharp to the edge visual fields are easily focused to pinpoint stars with my EPs.

* Ability to remove that extension for binoviewer usage (yeah, I will put there later M68 extensions and Baader ClickLock 2" visual back as replacement as suggested by Astro-Jensen).

 

As you can see from the linked image above, I have switched the standard Vixen dovetail to Losmandy one there, which makes this setup rock solid on top of my AP 1200 GTO mount. Both scopes point now to the same spot in the sky, so I can take a visual look from some night sky target very easily with this 4" ED scope and then I can document the same target with my 6" TMB + ZWO ASI183MM camera with only minor adjustments to star field alignment. Right now I don't have any filter wheel to my ASI183MM, but I have a pending order for such from FLO in UK. Anyway, it's really nice to have two scopes pointing to the same spot at the sky and have one designated for astrophotography another for visual observations, when such need comes. For example I managed to split Delta Cygni (a 2" binary called Fawaris) visually with this 4" ED scope (easy split with 234x) and then document the same binary as an image seen here (a B&W image only due to missing filter wheel here at this stage).

 

Thanks for all previous participants in this message thread.

Your information given here has been quite valuable for myself. For example the necessary modification needs given there were appreciated, likewise the optical tests seen here (I can verify that kind of optical quality from my ED scope too).

 

For the record and additional information; this TS version of the F/11 ED scope does NOT seem to have such great pitch-black optics coatings anymore as referred in the beginning of this thread. Nor it does NOT have individual serial numbering in place anymore. Otherwise the scope quality seems to be exactly the same as described in this thread (with all good and bad parts there). This is a very balanced 4" ED scope at its' own price point and I'd recommend it to visual observations without any hesitation, at least to such usage where its' specs are best suited.

 

_small.jpg

 

It you like to see some unpacking images from this ED scope, then those can be found here.


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#602 Robert Zebahl

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Posted 20 August 2020 - 03:24 PM

Hi Timo,

 

congratulations on the new telescope. Only a few days ago I observed with this refractor (version from Altair) and was very impressed by the view. Especially the star representation over the whole field and the color rendition I like very much.

 

Only disadvantage after this observation and a comparison with an achromat: My 152/900 achromat will be now replaced by a hand-selected APM 152/1200 ED refractor. It was shipped today grin.gif

 

CS,

Robert


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#603 vkhastro1

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Posted 20 August 2020 - 04:31 PM

Timo I - congratulations on the TS 102ED f/11 OTA !

It is definitely an excellent scope.



#604 Timo I

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Posted 21 August 2020 - 12:10 PM

Thanks! smile.gif

I'm still waiting some bits and pieces from FLO to arrive for this setup, but it was quite easy to adjust my existing setup to take use of Baader MaxBright II binoviewer and Baader Herschel Safety Wedge with 2x TV PowerMate and 40mm Plossls (modest 56x magnification there).

 

_small.jpg

 

Sun was almost blank today, but I managed to peek remnants of the small AR2772 sunspot area near the edge with my Herschel wedge. Seeing was not that good during late afternoon, but despite of that rippling Sun surface, my focusing to this solar view was quite smooth event. (Some pleasures of using a F/11 good quality ED refractor scope, just like it was discussed several pages earlier in this thread.) Very good!


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#605 Jethro7

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Posted 21 August 2020 - 08:28 PM

Hello Everyone,

I have a cousin of that scope a Astro Telescope 102mm F/11 Super Planetary. I bought it used and the first light views were just terrible. I tried to give this scope away. I almost threw it in the garbage. One day I was fiddling with it and accidentally fixed it. Now this scope is one of my favorite scopes for Planetary and Lunar viewing. 

 

HAPPY SKIES AND KEEP LOOKING UP Jethro.

 

20200816 015043

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#606 Uwe Pilz

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Posted 21 August 2020 - 09:53 PM

Dear Jethro7, I believe that your scope is a classic Fraunhofer (FH) and nt an ED scope. Nevertheless, a 4 inch f/11 FH may be give excellent planetary views.



#607 Jethro7

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Posted 22 August 2020 - 07:50 AM

Dear Jethro7, I believe that your scope is a classic Fraunhofer (FH) and nt an ED scope. Nevertheless, a 4 inch f/11 FH may be give excellent planetary views.

Hello Uwe,

You are right. Here is the thing,you have to really look for the CA, that is so minimal that it is not really a issue. Even when I have run up the power to 347X during Lunar viewing.

With that in mind a ED  version will be even better. Another reason for Riccardo, to buy and enjoy the Ascent 102mm F/ 11 scope.

 

HAPPY SKIES AND KEEP LOOKING UP Jethro


Edited by Jethro7, 22 August 2020 - 07:59 AM.


#608 Jethro7

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Posted 23 August 2020 - 06:30 PM

Hello,Riccardo,

It looks like you may have received one of the last ones, apparently that scope is now discontinued.??? The Altair Ascent102ED F/11 is no longer on Altairs website. Or Land sea & Sky website. dont know about TS Optics version. It is a shame these Long focal length Achros are not in voque right now.

 

HAPPY SKIES AND KEEP LOOKING UP Jethro


Edited by Jethro7, 23 August 2020 - 06:45 PM.


#609 ris242

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Posted 23 August 2020 - 06:42 PM

Hello,Riccardo,

It looks like you may have received one of the last ones apparently that scope is now discontinued.??? The102ED F/11 is no longer on Altairs website. I dont know about TS Optics version.

TS version is still on their site.


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#610 Gniewko

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Posted 25 August 2020 - 10:43 AM

Greetings from Poland

My new refractor TS 102/1122ED smile.gif  ( on the background Vixen 80/1200 )

Many thanks to everyone who wrote here about this telescope. This refractor is perfect, excellent, great. J love it.waytogo.gif

 

TS has a photo of the old version on its website. Currently they heave a new version, with a small diameter extension tube, like this Kasai Blanca http://www.kasai-tra...anca102edp.html . This is simply this same refractor.

 

 

1x.jpg


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#611 daquad

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Posted 25 August 2020 - 06:45 PM

Greetings from Poland

My new refractor TS 102/1122ED smile.gif  ( on the background Vixen 80/1200 )

Many thanks to everyone who wrote here about this telescope. This refractor is perfect, excellent, great. J love it.waytogo.gif

 

TS has a photo of the old version on its website. Currently they heave a new version, with a small diameter extension tube, like this Kasai Blanca http://www.kasai-tra...anca102edp.html . This is simply this same refractor.

 

 

attachicon.gif1x.jpg

So the tube is one piece up to the black ring?  And does the extension tube slide toward the objective for binoviewing?

 

Dom Q.



#612 ris242

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Posted 25 August 2020 - 07:00 PM

So the tube is one piece up to the black ring?  And does the extension tube slide toward the objective for binoviewing?

 

Dom Q.

It's usually a spacer you remove by unthreading.

The original had 3 small locking screws. Loosen them and you can unscrew.........and you unscrew the focuser from it.

The extension piece was about 120mm



#613 Galicapernistein

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Posted 29 August 2020 - 09:43 AM

We had a string of days where the atmosphere was unusually steady, so I finally got a chance to test my TS 102 ED F11 on the planets. In a word, outstanding. Using a 5mm Nagler at 224x, Jupiter showed an amazing amount of detail. The new white spot was plainly visible. I didn’t notice the storm near the GRS, but I did see the split in the darker clouds leading up to it. Contrast is excellent. Trying to pick out all of the delicate hues that make up Jupiter’s clouds is a skill in itself. During transit, Ganymede was an obvious disc, with one side darker than the other. The Martian polar cap was obvious, as were the greenish areas, even though Mars was still low. Even with a 3.5mm Nagler at 320x, details seemed to be limited by the atmosphere, not the scope. 

  At F11, depth of focus is huge. I observed the planets for hours by holding my eye above the eyepiece. Not having to put your eye right up to the eyepiece is a great advantage when observing at high power. I use mainly the bottom half of the eyepiece field, and let the planets drift across the field to solve the floater problem. And because the field is so flat, details can be seen right up to the very edge.

   I compared this to my 8” F6 Discovery dob. The dob was slightly brighter, but thermal issues meant the 102 always showed more detail, to the point where I’m selling my 8” Discovery. I regret not using my 8” F9 when conditions were so good, but there would have still been thermal issues. When it comes to observing the planets, I’m beginning to think nothing beats a slow refractor.
 


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#614 mic1970

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Posted 03 September 2020 - 05:54 PM

Are there sold in the US?



#615 Don Taylor

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Posted 03 September 2020 - 07:41 PM

Are there sold in the US?

Seems like Land Sea & Sky and Ontario Telescopes were the two North American dealers and neither list the 102 F11 ED anymore, nor does Altair in the UK.  Kasai trading in Japan sold 2 versions and no longer on their website either. I think that leaves Teleskop-Service in Germany https://www.teleskop...AP-Focuser.html.

 

I bought mine from LS&S but several in this thread have ordered from TS and had good service and quick delivery. I've ordered small parts from TS and had them in 3-4 days.

 

There is one in the CN classifieds too: https://www.cloudyni...pped-48-states/



#616 jag767

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Posted 05 September 2020 - 03:18 PM

Wow, guess I'll be holding onto mine for sure then. Not like I planned to let it go anyhow!
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#617 Timo I

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Posted 06 September 2020 - 08:04 AM

Just a short update on how well this long focal length ED scope can handle huge magnifications when regarding its' 4" size. (I do know there's a limit for any scope's magnifications, where scope starts to give empty magnifications instead of giving better detailed views, but it was intereting to test this 93x per inch mag out.)

 

I looked up Mars on 2nd of September morning 2 AM and took this image with my 6" APO. Then a bit later I checked how this TS 102/F11 ED scope would perform with planetary high magnifications. So I put a 7.5 mm Pentax SW eyepiece into my Televue 2.5x PowerMate + Baader 2" BBHS Prism (# 2456117) diagonal combo in this scope and tested it to Mars. This results into an insane 374x magnification with 0,27 mm (0.0106") exit pupil from that 4" ED scope. shocked.gif As a result I could look at Mars with that combo without any major color errors in the disc, just sligth hint of blue in the upper border of planetary disk. So it was quite a pity, that this 30 degree altitude planet here in Finland could not give me any better seeing, than the one seen in that linked Mars image. I could not find out Mars' south polar cap in this seeing, but I could see glimpses of Mare Sirenum / Mare Cimmerium shaped darkening there, which was the actual view from Mars at that time. What I should do here is to compare my TMB 152/1200 APO with this TS 102 ED somehow next laugh.gif


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#618 Jethro7

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Posted 08 September 2020 - 07:09 PM

Hello, Cners,

Thanks alot Guys. I have a Astro Telescopes 102mm F/11 Super Planetary that had a rough start for me but got it all fixed and it turned out to be a fine scope, with some of the best Planetary views that I have seen. But thanks to you all . I just bought a Starwave Ascent 102 ED F/11.  For someone who did not care for Achros, I have had a total change of heart and these long focal lengh Scopes are amazing for Planetary and Lunar viewing. I can't wait till I can see just how much better the Starwave is over the Astro Telescope. If they are close, no loss because I can use the Binoviewer on the Starwave. Every one can use another Refractor right, right?

 

   HAPPY SKIES TO YOU AND KEEP LOOKING UP Jethro                                                          


Edited by Jethro7, 08 September 2020 - 08:06 PM.

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#619 drd715

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Posted 08 September 2020 - 09:00 PM

Hello, Cners,
Thanks alot Guys. I have a Astro Telescopes 102mm F/11 Super Planetary that had a rough start for me but got it all fixed and it turned out to be a fine scope, with some of the best Planetary views that I have seen. But thanks to you all . I just bought a Starwave Ascent 102 ED F/11. For someone who did not care for Achros, I have had a total change of heart and these long focal lengh Scopes are amazing for Planetary and Lunar viewing. I can't wait till I can see just how much better the Starwave is over the Astro Telescope. If they are close, no loss because I can use the Binoviewer on the Starwave. Every one can use another Refractor right, right?

HAPPY SKIES TO YOU AND KEEP LOOKING UP Jethro

Maybe you bought the one listed in the cn classifieds yesterday. Looked like a good deal. I have the TS F-11ed version.

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#620 Timo I

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Posted 09 September 2020 - 02:47 PM

I looked up Mars on 2nd of September morning 2 AM and took this image with my 6" APO. Then a bit later I checked how this TS 102/F11 ED scope would perform with planetary high magnifications. So I put a 7.5 mm Pentax SW eyepiece into my Televue 2.5x PowerMate + Baader 2" BBHS Prism (# 2456117) diagonal combo in this scope and tested it to Mars. This results into an insane 374x magnification with 0,27 mm (0.0106") exit pupil from that 4" ED scope. As a result I could look at Mars with that combo without any major color errors in the disc, just sligth hint of blue in the upper border of planetary disk. So it was quite a pity, that this 30 degree altitude planet here in Finland could not give me any better seeing, than the one seen in that linked Mars image. I could not find out Mars' south polar cap in this seeing, but I could see glimpses of Mare Sirenum / Mare Cimmerium shaped darkening there, which was the actual view from Mars at that time. What I should do here is to compare my TMB 152/1200 APO with this TS 102 ED somehow next...

Well, I guess this it (as good as it gets in the near future). I managed to get a peek at Mars on Sept 8th at 01:54AM (UT+3) and find out that the seeing was better than on my last observation of the same target. This time I managed to take a better Mars image (considering local weather), but only with the help of a Baader IR-Pass filter and a fast 14ms / 69 fps video. From AS!3 I could see that the seeing conditions were a bit better than on the last week's attempt.

Anyway, I did manage to make a visual comparison with my both scopes and Mars that night smile.gif

 

Here's the fact sheet for my observations with Televue 4x PowerMate:

TS102/1122 ED (F/11), it had that Baader prism diagonal.
Delos 12mm => 374x (0,27mm exit pupil)

 

TMB 152/1200 LZOS APO (F/7.9), this one had a straigth through view sitting on the floor of my observation hut.
Delos 12mm => 403x (0,38mm exit pupil)

 

What did I see in that comparison? Mars south polar cap was clearly defined and some surface details were visible in both scopes with these magnifications. I took extra time to compare, if I could see better Mars surface details with either scope, but to my disappointment my 6" TMB APO could not out-resolve that 4" TS/F11 ED scope! On the other hand Mars polar cap was much easier to see in my TMB 6" APO and it had clearer planet edges compared to TS ED scope (without that beginning red/blue color aberration seen with my ED scope). Surface details on Mars were about equal on both scopes and I could see glimpses of them in both scopes. At times it almost felt like TS 102 ED had a slight edge over TMB with the surface details' contrast, but that could also be caused by different magnifications and seeing conditions...

 

Anyway the viewing difference between these scopes was not that huge, which one could expect from the price difference of these scopes. So my brief conclusion is that you would need a better seeing conditions to get the 6" APO quality beat this ED scope. And perhaps a better skilled observer with planets too... grin.gif  


Edited by Timo I, 09 September 2020 - 02:51 PM.

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#621 Jethro7

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Posted 09 September 2020 - 06:48 PM

Maybe you bought the one listed in the cn classifieds yesterday. Looked like a good deal. I have the TS F-11ed version.

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Hello drd715,

I did When Karen, dropped the price to $675.00 delivered. Unfortunately these long focal lengh scopes are not in voque right now and many people dont understand what they can do.  I fully understand why they have such a strong Cult following.

 

HAPPY SKIES TO YOU AND KEEP LOOKING UP Jethro.


Edited by Jethro7, 09 September 2020 - 06:49 PM.

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#622 Jethro7

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Posted 12 September 2020 - 06:18 PM

Hello CNers,

My Starwave Ascent 102 F/1122 ED, arrived today, bought used. It is just as Karen, advertised "Like New"

I cant wait to try it out and do a side by side comparison between the Astro Telescope 102mm F/11 Super Planetary and the AT102 ED. It will have to wait because like every time I get a new Astro Toy my weather shifts from perfect to crummy. This time I have a Tropical Storm do to arrive tomorrow and the outer bands are here now obscuring the skies. I will concur with Thomas. on post # 70 on his quick review of the Starwave Ascent. 102 F/1122 ED.  One thing I am very happy to know about this scope is that the thread pitch on the draw tube is M68 threads, the first mod will be  a Baader ClickLock system. And we will go from their.

 

HAPPY SKIES TO EVERONE AND KEEP LOOKING UP Jethro.

 


Edited by Jethro7, 12 September 2020 - 09:10 PM.

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#623 RichA

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Posted 13 September 2020 - 02:32 AM

Hello drd715,

I did When Karen, dropped the price to $675.00 delivered. Unfortunately these long focal lengh scopes are not in voque right now and many people dont understand what they can do.  I fully understand why they have such a strong Cult following.

 

HAPPY SKIES TO YOU AND KEEP LOOKING UP Jethro.

People would rather have f6 scopes with sometimes questionable correction and field curvature...


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#624 Jethro7

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Posted 13 September 2020 - 02:42 AM

Hello CNers,

I Managed to get first light with the Starwave Ascent 102 F/1122 ED tonight and paired it with the AT102ED.This is how you know that you have an addiction to the Astro Hobby. I walked out side and noticed that the clouds had parted. I ran inside and grabbed my new Astro toy and mount and set everything up. I have poor Seeing conditions (About what you can expect when you have a Tropical Storm headed your way)  and aThunderstorm blowing in from the Gulf of Mexico, and still, I'm compelled  to do it anyway. I wont have another chance for at least the next several nights. I viewed Jupiter and Saturn even though they were a little low on my Horizon. Jupiter, I could just make out the Northern and southern Equatorial Belts, the GRS was not visable. Saturn was the best of the targets tonight, I could make out the North Equatorial Belt and Equatorial Zone, the Cassini Division faded in and out of view. Well Mars is Mars, the only features I could make out were the Salmon red color with muted dark spots.The most magnification I could use was 100 X with the Starwave Ascent 102 F/1122 ED and 75 X with the AT102ED before I lost all Planetary definition. Not a good night for vewing.The views through the Starwave Ascent102 F/1122 ED were on par with the At102ED, and l will sleep better tonight knowing that my new Astro Toy works.

 

HAPPY SKIES TO YOU AND KEEP LOOKING UP Jethro

 


Edited by Jethro7, 13 September 2020 - 10:44 AM.

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#625 RichA

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Posted 13 September 2020 - 03:30 AM

Hello CNers,

I Managed to get first light with the Starwave Ascent 102 F/1122 ED tonight and paired it with the AT102ED.This is how you know that you have an addiction to the Astro Hobby. I walked out side and noticed that the clouds had parted. I ran inside and grabbed my new Astro toy and mount and set everything up. I have poor Seeing conditions (About what you can expect when you have a Tropical Storm headed your way)  and aThunderstorm blowing in from the Gulf of Mexico, and still, I'm compelled  to do it anyway. I wont have another chance for at least the next several nights. I viewed Jupiter, I could just make out the Northern and southern Equatorial Belts, the GRS was not visable. Saturn was the best of the targets tonight, I could make out the North Equatorial Belt and Equatorial Zone, the Cassini Division faded in and out of view. Well Mars is Mars, the only features I could make out were the Salmon red color with muted dark spots.The most magnification I could use was 100 X with the Starwave Ascent 102 F/1122 ED and 75 X with the AT102ED before I lost all Planetary definition. Not a good night for vewing.The views through the Starwave Ascent102 F/1122 ED were on par with the At102ED, and l will sleep better tonight knowing that my new Astro Toy works.

 

HAPPY SKIES TO YOU AND KEEP LOOKING UP Jethro

 

Sorry, no, "on-par" won't cut it, you'll have to do more observing/testing.  smile.gif  Reason:  would be very good to know if there is any benefit in the larger focal ratio before I buy it instead of the AT102ED since it'll now have to come from Europe!




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