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Tak FS-78 vrs FC-76

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#1 Element79

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Posted 16 January 2019 - 12:49 PM

So what gives here?  They seem like the same telescope only years apart.  They both have a 95mm tube and from what I know essentially the same focuser and the same lenses.  Is one better than the other?  Why did they change the design?

 

To the point of this inquiry I am looking to get a smaller grab-n-go telescope and the current Tak FC-76 looks appealing except for its endless variety of adapters to make it into a 2" focuser, visual-only telescope and the aforementioned question about the design change.  I don't like the focuser.  I don't like the clamshell mount.  But I DO like the quality of Takahashi lenses!!!  But again I don't like the weight of the scope although it won't be an overwhelming obstacle for my purposes.

 

I am sure that there are folks out there with lots of knowledge to share on this that they can convey to me prior to me plopping down my cash, so come forth and tell me what you know!

 

Thanks.

 

 

 


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#2 jay.i

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Posted 16 January 2019 - 01:03 PM

The lenses aren't the same; the FS-78 is an f/8 Fraunhofer (ED in front) configuration, the FC-76 is an f/8 Steinheil (ED in rear) configuration. From what I have heard, there is no inherent performance difference from the different configurations. Both use CaF2. I don't know why they switched the design since I believe they claimed in the FS manual that the front element is protected by the coatings, so the switch to FC was not to protect the CaF2. I believe the FC series was first, followed by the FS, and then back to FC-D. It is possible the FS series was lighter, or they wanted to make slightly larger apertures (doubtful)? I don't know.

 

I have heard the FS-78 has the best correction in the FS series. The FC-76 is reportedly excellent, and I can say my FC-76DC (f/7.5) does have excellent color and spherical correction (color being the main difference between the models over the years).

 

I briefly tried the 2.2" focuser that came with my (used) FC-76DC, but quickly put a 2" FTF on there and haven't regretted it one bit. The 2" visual back from Takahashi is like $120 or something, which is roughly the same cost as the FTF flange. Sure the FTF isn't cheap, but it's a way to bring the mechanics up to the level of the optics, which are fantastic in my case (and in most others I reckon!).

 

If you get an FC-76DC/U, you can use Borg 80mm rings to get away from the Tak clamshell (the -DS has a 95mm tube like the FC-100DC/DF). I've got them on mine from the previous owner and I'm very glad he used them. With those black rings and the black with gold knob FTF, the scope looks pretty awesome I'd say. smile.gif There are also 4 finder shoes mounted to these rings, with only one partially visible on the top in this photo.

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Edited by jay.i, 16 January 2019 - 01:08 PM.

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#3 Erik Bakker

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Posted 16 January 2019 - 01:06 PM

Takahashi scopes are quite straightforward to use, so I do not experience them as "difficult" or "needing endless adapters" to work.

 

That said: for visual high power use, I slightly prefer the older FS-78. For compactness and digital imaging use, I prefer the FC-76 DS, with it's sliding dew shield and better/different correction in blue at the point of best focus. 

 

Both are wonderful scopes with a unique "character" and capable of great performance.


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#4 bbyrd

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Posted 16 January 2019 - 02:32 PM

I'm on my second FS-78 telescope and only a visual observer. I liked the view better in my FS-78 than my Lomo 80mm. But then again the F ratios are different in those scopes and I mostly now use a Baader zoom.


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#5 donadani

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Posted 16 January 2019 - 02:42 PM

That said: for visual high power use, I slightly prefer the older FS-78. 

 

Why?

 

I prefere the design of the older scopes over the new ones… e.g. collimatable lens, longer and fixed dew cap - and the most important: better look wink.gif

 

cs

Chris


Edited by donadani, 16 January 2019 - 02:43 PM.

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#6 Element79

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Posted 16 January 2019 - 02:49 PM

I briefly tried the 2.2" focuser that came with my (used) FC-76DC, but quickly put a 2" FTF on there and haven't regretted it one bit. The 2" visual back from Takahashi is like $120 or something, which is roughly the same cost as the FTF flange. Sure the FTF isn't cheap, but it's a way to bring the mechanics up to the level of the optics, which are fantastic in my case (and in most others I reckon!).

I don't see an adapter for the FC-76DC on the Starlight web site.  Did you have to order is special?



#7 rerun

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Posted 16 January 2019 - 03:29 PM

Many years ago I had my first view through a Takahashi refractor it was a FS78 and it shows things I could not see with my 100mm  ED refractor that night. That made me want a Takahashi scope for myself. My FC76DS gives me fantastic views and shows me again sometimes more than my 100 ED. So I have never looked through a FS78 and a FC76 for a side by side comparison. But my FC76DS is more compact and I love this.

 

Clear skies Markus 


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#8 jay.i

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Posted 16 January 2019 - 03:44 PM

I don't see an adapter for the FC-76DC on the Starlight web site.  Did you have to order is special?

I think this is it. It says it's for the "FS60 and FC76 telescopes". The FS-60CB has an 80mm tube and I know my FC-76DC has 80mm tube rings, so I think that is the adapter. Mine looks exactly like it.

 

http://starlightinst...0&product_id=76


Edited by jay.i, 16 January 2019 - 03:44 PM.

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#9 marcus_z

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Posted 16 January 2019 - 03:55 PM

Element,

here's your shopping list:

  • Takahashi FC-76D objective upgrade for FS-60CB
  • Takahashi FS-60CB-tube
  • Starlight Instruments A20-302
  • Starlight Instruments FTF2025BCR or FTF2025BCR-LW
  • Borg 80 series tube ring
  • the dovetail of your choice

 

 

PS: in this picture the CQ-module is attached, which I have sold a few days ago, because I don't find it necessary...

P1130978 Cut

Edited by marcus_z, 16 January 2019 - 03:57 PM.

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#10 jay.i

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Posted 16 January 2019 - 04:02 PM

Yes! If you are going to buy new, build an FC-76DCU from parts so you don't get the unnecessary 2.2" focuser and go straight to the FTF. Also recommend the 2.5" drawtube (2025).



#11 agmoonsolns

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Posted 16 January 2019 - 05:53 PM

I stumbled across a truly exceptional vintage FC-76 with the finest (and smoothest) figure I have ever seen. It blows me away every time I use it, I just can't believe I was lucky enough to find one this good. Even the focuser is exceptional - perfect tension and smoothness with no wobble or play, just perfect. That being said, if someone offered me a brand new one as described by Marcus above, I would be severely tempted to jump on it. The newer lenses have better correction and are lighter with sliding dewshield, etc. While I doubt I would find a newer one with glass as well figured as this one, I am pretty sure the newer one would be close. Honestly, all of the versions are terrific.

 

In my own experience, the vintage FCs have slightly better figures and a smoother polish to the glass giving them a slight, but noticeable edge in performance (slightly sharper and less scattered light), but the newer versions have a slight, but noticeable improvement in color correction. They also have much improved tube designs. It's a case of six of one and half a dozen of the other. I think it would be wiser to choose based on individual units instead of by version as they're all great.


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#12 Kunama

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Posted 16 January 2019 - 06:24 PM

I stumbled across a truly exceptional vintage FC-76 with the finest (and smoothest) figure I have ever seen. It blows me away every time I use it, I just can't believe I was lucky enough to find one this good. Even the focuser is exceptional - perfect tension and smoothness with no wobble or play, just perfect. That being said, if someone offered me a brand new one as described by Marcus above, I would be severely tempted to jump on it. The newer lenses have better correction and are lighter with sliding dewshield, etc. While I doubt I would find a newer one with glass as well figured as this one, I am pretty sure the newer one would be close. Honestly, all of the versions are terrific.

 

In my own experience, the vintage FCs have slightly better figures and a smoother polish to the glass giving them a slight, but noticeable edge in performance (slightly sharper and less scattered light), but the newer versions have a slight, but noticeable improvement in color correction. They also have much improved tube designs. It's a case of six of one and half a dozen of the other. I think it would be wiser to choose based on individual units instead of by version as they're all great.

I have not found this to be the case, the best optics I have seen so far were the FOA60, TSA102s and TOA130NFB.  The FOA for its diminutive aperture is an absolute marvel of sharpness and well corrected optics, even at 228x this little Takker was holding it together......


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#13 Element79

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Posted 16 January 2019 - 06:31 PM

Element,

here's your shopping list:

  • Takahashi FC-76D objective upgrade for FS-60CB
  • Takahashi FS-60CB-tube
  • Starlight Instruments A20-302
  • Starlight Instruments FTF2025BCR or FTF2025BCR-LW
  • Borg 80 series tube ring
  • the dovetail of your choice

 

 

PS: in this picture the CQ-module is attached, which I have sold a few days ago, because I don't find it necessary...

 

Wow!  I didn't realize that you could buy only the pieces you need and not get the Tak focuser!

 

Thanks to all for making this easy.



#14 jay.i

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Posted 16 January 2019 - 06:38 PM

Wow!  I didn't realize that you could buy only the pieces you need and not get the Tak focuser!

 

Thanks to all for making this easy.

Roger Vine reviewed the FC-76DCU "objective unit" here and the scope as a whole here. If you haven't read them yet, they're great!


Edited by jay.i, 16 January 2019 - 06:40 PM.

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#15 agmoonsolns

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Posted 16 January 2019 - 06:44 PM

Just goes to show Takahashi refractors are so good that differences in quality are so small it's down to differences in individual units.

 

Matt, please note I never said anything bad about the newer versions, quite the opposite. They are all truly exceptional. It's just I have found in the numerous Takahashi telescopes I have owned over the years, the old FCs had slightly better, smoother figures.



#16 CHASLX200

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Posted 16 January 2019 - 06:46 PM

Had two FS78's and both gave drop dead star images at over 100x per inch.  Could not ask for a better scope in that size range.


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#17 waso29

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Posted 17 January 2019 - 12:55 AM

tak topped themselves by adding 4in lens in the same size tube for new fc100df.

 

also, instead of the awkward english sticker over japanese sticker on only one side of the dew shield, there's a beautifully printed logo around the circumference.  reminiscent of older fc series.

 

i opted for the newer "borg-like" fc76dcu as my bike-n-go setup.  throw in a CQ1.7x and ExtQ1.6x for crazy lunar views.

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#18 Element79

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Posted 17 January 2019 - 07:48 AM

I can't find a source for the separate Tak parts.  Anybody got a link to these?

 

Is this the Borg rings you were referring to: https://www.sciencec...s/html/7083.htm

 

The link that jay.i gave showed a soft-sided carry bag for the FC-76DCU but I can't find that accessory anywhere and as soon as I saw it I knew I "needed" one!  Any links to this?

 

And do you think that this outfit - a FC-76DCU with the Starlight FTF2025 focuser - will ride OK on a Vixen Porta Mount II?



#19 rerun

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Posted 17 January 2019 - 11:08 AM

When I got my FC76DS new I changed the focuser and added a feathertouch microfocusser. Now I got my new FC100DF and change the MPA TAK feathertouch microfocusser from the FC76 to the FC100.  While building back to original focuser at the FC76 I found two philips screws that hold the pionon sattle in place and with these screws I modify the grip of the focuser and now the original Takahashi focuser of the FC76DS works great. Better than before.
Maybe you first try out the FC76DCU with the original focuser.  Even the focuser at my FOA60 works excellent. At the homepage of Starlight Instruments , here is the link

 

 http://starlightinst...&product_id=121

 

At the bottom of the page you find an instruction for installing. There are some pictures that show these screws.

 

I saw people who had the FC76DCU on a Vixen Porta Mount II .I think it works.

 

Clear skies Markus


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#20 Terra Nova

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Posted 17 January 2019 - 11:22 AM

My older (not oldest, the grey preceded the green) FC76 is optical perfection! It is the best scope optically that I have ever owned. It amazes me everytime I use it. It will do 300X on Jupiter or Saturn without breaking a sweat on nights where seeing permits. The first time I looked at Jupiter through it I was astounded!

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#21 nicknacknock

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Posted 17 January 2019 - 01:48 PM

I can't find a source for the separate Tak parts.  Anybody got a link to these?

 

Is this the Borg rings you were referring to: https://www.sciencec...s/html/7083.htm

 

The link that jay.i gave showed a soft-sided carry bag for the FC-76DCU but I can't find that accessory anywhere and as soon as I saw it I knew I "needed" one!  Any links to this?

 

And do you think that this outfit - a FC-76DCU with the Starlight FTF2025 focuser - will ride OK on a Vixen Porta Mount II?

 

The ones Jay is referring to, are these


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#22 Kunama

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Posted 17 January 2019 - 02:53 PM

Hi Au,

The FC76DCU will work with the FTF2025BCR if you can get the the 127mm long FS60CB tube from your Tak agent (TNR?). Simply screw the 127mm tube to the FC76U and then the FTF with its adapter.

The Vixen Porta II  will be fine with that combination.  Takahashi also had a 105mm long tube for the FS60CSV but they might be hard to find now. That would allow 22mm extra back focus.

 

80mm tube rings are also available from PrimaLuceLab (and K-Astec via Kyoei-Osaka).



#23 donadani

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Posted 17 January 2019 - 02:59 PM

All that adapters and Feather-Touchs sounds complicated…

 

I prefere the classic way:

 

 

 

:)


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#24 jay.i

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Posted 17 January 2019 - 03:05 PM

You still need a 2" visual back adapter, an essential item for most scopes today, with the stock DC/DCU focuser, so it's not like Tak is free of adapters wink.gif



#25 marcus_z

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Posted 17 January 2019 - 03:20 PM

All that adapters and Feather-Touchs sounds complicated…

 

I prefere the classic way:

 

attachicon.gif a0.jpg

 

 

smile.gif

We should compare those two! laugh.gif


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