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NEAF 2019

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#51 aeajr

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Posted 28 March 2019 - 12:54 PM

Here's the link to the Rockland Emergency Directive: http://rocklandgov.c...ncy_Signed.pdf 

 

The risk for me is if a proof of vaccination will be demanded before entry, for adults.  That isn't indicated now (only under 18 so far), but who knows.. still a week to go.

 

I and my wife have long since lost our vaccination documentation for measles.  (We're trying to get fresh vaccinations before our flights..just for the paper ).  But if we get blocked at the door, or, if the health department shuts it down,  then flight, hotel, car rental will be money down the drain.

 

Really sorry folks, not my intent to cause everyone anxiety.. pls don't shoot the messenger..

 

I've asked here and on the NEAIC thread, I've pm'd the gentleman on here that's in the NEAIC organization team, and I've left voicemail on their RAC helpline.  Crickets so far.. 

Your concerns for documentation at the door or the show being shut down seem to have no basis at all. 

 

Do you have ANY reports or documentation that anything even remotely related to this is likely to happen or even being contemplated?

 

I have not seen any indication from government officials or anywhere else that ANYTHING like this would happen.  NOTHING!

 

Certainly, you are free to do whatever you wish, but to throw up a scare like this seems baseless. 



#52 Bob Moore

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Posted 28 March 2019 - 01:23 PM

This was just sent to me from RAC for posting 

 

 

NEAF/NEAIC Official Statement: (Regarding the measles concern in Rockland County)

Rest assured, there are no travel restrictions to NEAF and NEAIC or measles documentation required as some internet rumors have indicated.  Recent news stories and internet rumors have greatly exaggerated concerns in Rockland County.  

An increased occurrence of measles in the county was first noted last fall,   likely due, according to the CDC,  to some families choosing not to vaccinate their children.

 

News stories escalated when a judge banned 44 unvaccinated children from returning to Green Meadow Waldorf School in Chestnut Ridge, NY, a progressive private school which does not require standard childhood immunizations, as are required in all other state-run schools.   Most news stories are surrounding the judge’s verdict to ban unvaccinated children from school and are not about any risk of contracting measles in Rockland.

Once again, there is no concern of measles at NEAF and NEAIC nor is there any required paperwork at the door.  Rumors of this are simply false and should be whole heartily ignored.  

As always, we hope you will enjoy your visit to NEAF and NEAIC and we look forward to seeing you.


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#53 aeajr

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Posted 28 March 2019 - 01:38 PM

Bob,

 

Thanks for posting that. 



#54 Simcal

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Posted 28 March 2019 - 02:20 PM

Your concerns for documentation at the door or the show being shut down seem to have no basis at all. 

 

Do you have ANY reports or documentation that anything even remotely related to this is likely to happen or even being contemplated?

 

I have not seen any indication from government officials or anywhere else that ANYTHING like this would happen.  NOTHING!

 

Certainly, you are free to do whatever you wish, but to throw up a scare like this seems baseless. 

Ed.  I asked for a clarification, a confirmation from NEAF that documentation would or would not be required.  It took 24 hours+ for NEAF to clarify.  And let me be clear about this, I had received NO RESPONSE from phone calls to the one number buried on the site, there was NOTHING proactively communicated here or on the website,  nothing on the twitter site, and I had to chase Bob down here through pm in order to get NEAF/NEAIC/RAC off their butts to do any response at all.

 

I have done nothing other than link to the government information, and discuss why I need a clarification.  YOU are travelling from Long Island in your car no doubt.  I, like many attendees and vendors, some with children, have committed CONSIDERABLY MORE to get to this show, and frankly, NEAF/NEAIC/RAC with their extremely late, poor and obviously self-concerned communication, is the root of this anxiety. Not me.

 

The **** city declared a "STATE OF EMERGENCY". What the heck is your priority, setting up tables?!  Geez..


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#55 dghent

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Posted 28 March 2019 - 02:24 PM

Bob, Rockland Community College is in Rockland County, the government of which issued an emergency order barring unvaccinated individuals under 18 from any indoor public place, a definition which certainly includes the NEAF and NEAIC venues. This emergency order is in effect for the next 30 days unless it's cancelled before. The order itself explains how it's intended to be enforced.

 

I don't think it's RAC's place or job at all to issue opinions on how safe one may be at the events or to offer its own interpretations of legal government orders. I'm surprised RAC's statement lacks any link to the civil emergency order or mention of it. It's real. It exists. It applies to people. With that, it looks like RAC is trying to protect event attendance more than making sure attendees have the information they need to make their own arrangements and decisions.

 

The subtext in this emergency order is to underscore that there is an elevated risk to individuals who are unvaccinated for a medically-recognized reason or have compromised immune systems. While you feel that NEAF/NEAIC might be safe places, attendees will likely to go out to restaurants, stores, malls, and other public places outside of the event where infected individuals may be. There are people attending from far and wide and may not even be aware of the situation in Rockland county and may need to take this aspect into consideration for themselves. Again, RAC should be ensuring its attendees know where to get official information and not editorializing on how safe or true or false things are.


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#56 Simcal

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Posted 28 March 2019 - 02:38 PM

And as far as answering your direct question.

 

http://rocklandgov.c...gency-declared/

 

"anyone who is under 18 years of age and unvaccinated against the measles will be barred from public places until this declaration expires in 30 days or until they receive the MMR vaccination." -- I wanted assurance that this would not be extended to Adults. Why is that a crazy question?

 

"Law enforcement will not be patrolling or asking for vaccination records but those found to be in violation will be referred to the Rockland County District Attorney's Office." -- Referred to the attorney's office.. What does that mean? Violation for not having vaccination records?? But their not checking.. Huh?

 

As for sounding the alarm.. well, actually..  "This is a public health crisis, and it is time to sound the alarm," - County Executive Ed Day

 

I'm 500 miles away. Just google "Rockland Emergency" and see what you get.  

 

I understand the anger, but it's misdirected.  RAC should have been ahead of this, they're local and on the ground.


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#57 aeajr

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Posted 28 March 2019 - 03:01 PM

I respect people's concerns.  And maybe RAC should have posted something on the web site so that the public was aware, especially those bringing children.  They might be affected by this declaration.
 
However, they can not provide the assurance that people are asking for.  It is not in their hands.   That can only come from the Rockland County government. 
 
Here is the question you have to ask yourself.
 
On a personal level, are you an unvaccinated person under the age of 18?  If you are, then this emergency declaration applies to you.   If you are not, then it does not.  Seems pretty straightforward to me. 
 
As for assurance that this could not possibly change?   I don't think anyone can give you that.  If you are that concerned then it seems to me you have no choice but to stay home. 
 
The concern is for children who are unvaccinated being exposed to a disease. 
 
As I read it, if and only if you are someone affected by this declaration and you violate it you could be fined or prosecuted, essentially for placing others at risk as well as yourself.   
 
It is like speeding in your car.  The sign is there and you are expected to adhere to the law voluntarily.   If you violate it and you are caught you suffer the consequences.  Not different. 
 
As I read it, if you bring a child who is unvaccinated to NEAF then you are in violation of the emergency declaration.   It would be a good idea to bring a copy of their vaccination certificate. 
 
If you are an adult who is unvaccinated, born after 1957 and never had the measles then you have to make your own risk assessment but it seems to me that you are not affected by the declaration.  Personally, if that was me, I would probably look forward to next year's show. 
 
Just my take on the situation. 
 
Life is a risk.  Every time you step out the door you take a risk.
 
The declaration doesn't apply to me.   I will be at NEAF.


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#58 Simcal

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Posted 28 March 2019 - 04:10 PM

Ed, this has never been about *** disturbing.  Your discussion is salient and logical.

 

Personally, I honestly can't remember if I got vaccinated, and unfortunately my records of vaccination are long lost to moves. I am over 18, but I don't feel like it ( and likely now there are a lot of people at RAC that would agree I don't act like it :)   My personal issue is that I and my wife, first-timers to the show, have spent about $1600 to come to it.  We have a timeframe for cancellations, and once that's past we're locked in with no refund.  We're not rich, so this matters. I'm retired.

 

I had a risk to assess and a decision to make.  I think anyone else would also reasonably pursue more information in order to make that risk assessment more accurate. So I checked blogs, twitter, websites, and reached out to RAC people here. I made a long distance call to RAC.  32 hours ago I had no information to go on. 3 hours ago I still had no information to go on.  If I didn't care about going I would have cut bait yesterday.  But I REALLY WANT TO GO.

 

We're a lot further along now. RAC has now affirmed that no documentation will be required. That was important even if some think it was trivial.

 

I appreciate RACs anger.  They feel this was, to use their term 'greatly exaggerated' and "rumour".  I'll live with that, whatever.  I thought this forum was a safe place to pursue clarity.  They are working very hard right now, without doubt, and I have been there and can empathize.  But they are closer to this than I am.. and frankly they should have anticipated that communication was necessary. I reminded them I guess.

 

Hopefully when the dust clears they will do a lesson's learned and determine that having timely, proactive, up to date communication is as important as venue set up, vendor management etc.  Again the only reason we're here doing this right now, is because RAC was silent.

 

-over and out-


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#59 winterymix

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Posted 28 March 2019 - 04:37 PM

Please allow me to share some reassurance.  This is communicated airborne.  Therefore if necessary, attendees can purchase some OTC disposable respiratory masks.  It will certainly appear nerdy to wear these at a scientific conference but it is a legitimate option.

 

 

https://www.cdc.gov/...ansmission.html

 

It can spread to others through coughing and sneezing. Also, measles virus can live for up to two hours in an airspace where the infected person coughed or sneezed. ... Measles is so contagious that if one person has it, up to 90% of the people close to that person who are not immune will also become infected.

https://www.amazon.c...,aps,147&sr=8-6

 

https://www.amazon.c...,aps,147&sr=8-9

 

 

 

These are inexpensive enough that the NEAF organizers can set out a supply for attendees.

 

And then there is this:

 

 

https://www.purell.com/

 

Here is a slightly controversial idea for the NEAF organizers:  Why not inform potential attendees that if they are coughing and sneezing, stay home.



#60 aeajr

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Posted 28 March 2019 - 10:32 PM

snip...

 

Here is a slightly controversial idea for the NEAF organizers:  Why not inform potential attendees that if they are coughing and sneezing, stay home.

Nothing controversial about that.  If you are sick you should consider whether you are going to make other people sick.   Many offices encourage sick employees to stay home rather than spread disease in the office.

 

This is a matter of common consideration.  If you are sick, I certainly would prefer you stay home.   

 

The only thing I find controversial about that is that idea that people need to be told this on a website. 



#61 George N

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Posted 29 March 2019 - 10:16 AM

It's not just 'Rockland County' folks -- there is a Measles outbreak across the USA, according to the CDC - https://www.cdc.gov/...-outbreaks.html

 

My take - if you have not had an MMR shot - get one. I have not (born in 1947) - but I believe I have had all three - plus, in Rockland I'm far more concerned about 'death by auto accident' - or 'crime', than a disease impacting less than 200 people (all/most kids) in an area that would be one of the top 10 in the UN if an independent country. I also see the high hand of "local politics" here - considering the unique "cultural aspects" of Rockland, including local antagonisms.

 

So.... if I thro away my registration for NEAIC/NEAF and hotel reservation, what will I do? Go to Cherry Springs to observe and get attacked by rabid bears, coyotes and "the locals" - while being run off the road by out-of-control gas-fracking trucks driven by guys on drugs?  shocked.gif 


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#62 George N

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Posted 29 March 2019 - 11:36 AM

Oh.... and if you need to worry about stuff while in the NYC area - and at NEAF -- consider this - around 10% or more of the people there are international travelers who have just been thru some of the highest traffic airports in the world ( 12 hours from ebola, Seoul Fever, H1N1 Flu - yes it is still prevalent in the area - and China ), NYC has TB that is drug resistant, and.... you be something like a dozen miles from one of the world's oldest nuk plants that is sitting right on top of an earthquake fault..... 

 

….but if you are over 50 and male (like 80% of the folks there) yer gonna die from a heart attack or cancer or an auto accident..... or you are gonna fall off a ladder while observing with a 36-inch Dob.....  sorry.....  wink.gif 


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#63 sink45ny

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Posted 29 March 2019 - 12:21 PM

Oh.... and if you need to worry about stuff while in the NYC area - and at NEAF -- consider this - around 10% or more of the people there are international travelers who have just been thru some of the highest traffic airports in the world ( 12 hours from ebola, Seoul Fever, H1N1 Flu - yes it is still prevalent in the area - and China ), NYC has TB that is drug resistant, and.... you be something like a dozen miles from one of the world's oldest nuk plants that is sitting right on top of an earthquake fault..... 

 

….but if you are over 50 and male (like 80% of the folks there) yer gonna die from a heart attack or cancer or an auto accident..... or you are gonna fall off a ladder while observing with a 36-inch Dob.....  sorry.....  wink.gif

George you're frightening the children LOL.


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#64 DennisK

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Posted 29 March 2019 - 01:19 PM

After everything I've read over the last few days about this "epidemic", I'm not concerned about gettting measles, I'm more worried about getting caught in a riot between vaxxers and anti-vaxxers.  I plan to stay "close to home" -  my room at the Crowne Plaza and the conferences areas for NEAIC - and drive no farther than the Diner, Sutter's Mill, and RCC.


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#65 Bob Moore

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Posted 29 March 2019 - 02:43 PM

I love you guys! you guys said what i am (was ) not aloud to say. See me in person and i'll explain. Thank you for a sensible take on this whole thing!


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#66 DennisK

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Posted 29 March 2019 - 03:18 PM

I love you guys! you guys said what i am (was ) not aloud to say. See me in person and i'll explain. Thank you for a sensible take on this whole thing!

There's a WHOLE bunch of other things I could say about all of this but it would not be appropriate and this is not the place to say it.  We can talk about it Wednesday night while we're setting up - or at the lobby bar when we're done!



#67 George N

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Posted 29 March 2019 - 03:45 PM

BTW.... I just got an e-mail that sez -- after 9 years, the Televue Blem Sale is BACK!

 

No mention if the 'rules' will be the same, but - the way it was:

 

Cash only, no exceptions, no returns or refunds - but really good deals.

 

Eyepieces marked with a tiny green 'dot' to signify "NEAF Blem" (and lower re-sale value)

 

Optics are sold as indistinguishable from new stock - and don't expect any explanation of what the blem is for your purchase, or it general

 

Most stuff gone by 1 PM on Saturday - or earlier - best stuff goes really early.

 

Long line - people run for the line (literally) as soon as the place opens!

 

I believe that for the last few years there was some sort of limit on sales, but I don't remember the details, but the idea was to give everyone a chance at the best stuff, and to discourage "flippers", people buying for their club friends back home, etc

 

I have two eyepieces from the old 'blem' sales - and I was never able to see any problem with them.


Edited by George N, 29 March 2019 - 03:48 PM.


#68 Paramount

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Posted 29 March 2019 - 05:20 PM

It's certainly not measles that I'm worried about, it's the danger I face when I get back home to the UK if I've bought a new piece of equipment and my partner Joanna finds out, that's more hazardous to my health than any contagious disease 😉
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#69 DarkAntimatter

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Posted 29 March 2019 - 06:21 PM

But epedemic-repelling charms over here in the US always have "Takahashi" written in Japanese on them.
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#70 Bob Moore

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Posted 29 March 2019 - 07:56 PM

It's certainly not measles that I'm worried about, it's the danger I face when I get back home to the UK if I've bought a new piece of equipment and my partner Joanna finds out, that's more hazardous to my health than any contagious disease

Bring a change of  knickers and you can stay with me untill Floyd cuts his ear again and she needs someone to clean the blood off the walls


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#71 Bob Moore

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Posted 29 March 2019 - 07:58 PM

There's a WHOLE bunch of other things I could say about all of this but it would not be appropriate and this is not the place to say it.  We can talk about it Wednesday night while we're setting up - or at the lobby bar when we're done!

i think the bar will be long closed by the time we are all done



#72 DennisK

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Posted 29 March 2019 - 08:09 PM

i think the bar will be long closed by the time we are all done

Tell them ahead of time that they have to keep the alcohol available for medicinal purposes...


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#73 Paramount

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Posted 30 March 2019 - 02:55 AM

Bring a change of knickers and you can stay with me untill Floyd cuts his ear again and she needs someone to clean the blood off the walls


Well spotted that one🤣

#74 SpartanSky

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Posted 30 March 2019 - 09:00 AM

BTW.... I just got an e-mail that sez -- after 9 years, the Televue Blem Sale is BACK!

 

No mention if the 'rules' will be the same, but - the way it was:

 

Cash only, no exceptions, no returns or refunds - but really good deals.

 

Eyepieces marked with a tiny green 'dot' to signify "NEAF Blem" (and lower re-sale value)

 

Optics are sold as indistinguishable from new stock - and don't expect any explanation of what the blem is for your purchase, or it general

 

Most stuff gone by 1 PM on Saturday - or earlier - best stuff goes really early.

 

Long line - people run for the line (literally) as soon as the place opens!

 

I believe that for the last few years there was some sort of limit on sales, but I don't remember the details, but the idea was to give everyone a chance at the best stuff, and to discourage "flippers", people buying for their club friends back home, etc

 

I have two eyepieces from the old 'blem' sales - and I was never able to see any problem with them.

Could you explain what a "blem sale" is in more detail? This will be my first NEAF with one of these, and I can't seem to find anything online that explains it to people unaware of these. How much of a discount can I expect to get? Is it only certain equipment that these guidelines apply to? How exactly does the sale work?



#75 Bob Moore

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Posted 30 March 2019 - 09:45 AM

Could you explain what a "blem sale" is in more detail? This will be my first NEAF with one of these, and I can't seem to find anything online that explains it to people unaware of these. How much of a discount can I expect to get? Is it only certain equipment that these guidelines apply to? How exactly does the sale work?

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