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Out of the box Mount that worked flawless for AP!?

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#1 emflocater

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Posted 21 January 2019 - 03:53 PM

This question is for those only with a $2000 or less mount.  Telescope.gif

 

With so many posts here on CN of Folks receiving mounts that have QC issues, Firmware issues, Motor or Electronic board issues, Grease/Lubricant issues, Gear Mesh/Backlash issues... you Folks know the drill... bangbang.gif

 

Has any one here ever bought a new mount ($2000 or less) that performed almost flawlessly out of the box when using it for Astrophotography? No hypertuning necessary. No major tear downs to replace or re-grease. Just maybe a few simple tweaks needed with an Allan wrench or Settings in the Hand Control. whee.gif

 

Would enjoy hearing from those Folks who got lucky buying a new mount (not used) and what mount it was and their thoughts on if it performed well.

 

Is this EVEN possible with these mass produced mounts. praying.gif

 

This might enlighten those Folks looking for a mount and or what headaches to expect when thinking of trying out Astrophotography (not visual) with mass produced mounts. scratchhead2.gif

 

Cheers

Don


Edited by emflocater, 21 January 2019 - 05:58 PM.

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#2 psandelle

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Posted 21 January 2019 - 04:05 PM

Both my iOptron iEQ30’s (one original, one Pro) worked perfectly. Really like them. I like my 10Micron more , but dig the little 30’s.

 

Paul


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#3 rkaufmann87

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Posted 21 January 2019 - 04:06 PM

 

This question is for those only with a $2000 or less mount.  Telescope.gif

 

With so many posts here on CN of Folks receiving mounts that have QC issues, Firmware issues, Motor or Electronic board issues, Grease/Lubricant issues, Gear Mesh/Backlash issues... you Folks know the drill... bangbang.gif

 

Has any one here ever bought a new mount ($2000 or less) that performed almost flawlessly out of the box when using it for Astrophotography? No hypertuning necessary. No major tear downs to replace or re-grease. Just maybe a few simple tweaks needed with an Allan wrench or Settings in the Hand Control. whee.gif

 

Would enjoy hearing from those Folks who got lucky buying a new mount (not used) and what mount it was and their thoughts on if it performed well.

 

Is this EVEN possible with these mass produced mounts. praying.gif

 

This might enlighten those Folks looking for a mount and or what headaches to expect when thinking of trying out Astrophotography (not visual) with mass produced mounts. scratchhead2.gif

 

Cheers

Don

 

There is no need to shout at us with bold centered type. 


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#4 WadeH237

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Posted 21 January 2019 - 05:22 PM

In answer to the original question, sure.*

 

Most mounts work as advertised right out of the box.  On any forum, you will tend to hear about the exceptions because the ordinary isn't worth talking about.  I also see a lot of people whose expectations are not inline with typical mount performance.

 

I've purchased about a dozen brand new mounts in every price range.  I've only had one that didn't work correctly right out of the box.  One of the drive motors was DOA and I had my dealer took care of it (by arranging an swap for another one).

 

-Wade

 

*Here's the caveat:

 

A turn key kit for doing astrophotography right out of the box is a bit of a fantasy.  Your question is exactly like asking if anyone ever bought a guitar that could be played well right out of the box.  The answer, of course, is that if you know how to play a guitar, then it's not an oddity to be able to play one out of the box.  If you haven't made the investment in scaling the learning curve for astrophotography, your chances are similar to being able to play a guitar right out of the box, without having first learned to play.  This isn't like pointing your phone at somebody and clicking a single button.


Edited by WadeH237, 21 January 2019 - 05:25 PM.

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#5 emflocater

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Posted 21 January 2019 - 05:40 PM

 

There is no need to shout at us with bold centered type.

That better! Didn't mean to shout..was helping them older Folks with bad seeing is all! Plus I thought shouting was all Caps! I guess its bold too, but most Folks are more familiar that shouts are caps. My bad,

Cheers

Don


Edited by emflocater, 21 January 2019 - 05:56 PM.


#6 emflocater

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Posted 21 January 2019 - 05:54 PM

 

 

*Here's the caveat:

 

A turn key kit for doing astrophotography right out of the box is a bit of a fantasy.  Your question is exactly like asking if anyone ever bought a guitar that could be played well right out of the box.  The answer, of course, is that if you know how to play a guitar, then it's not an oddity to be able to play one out of the box.  If you haven't made the investment in scaling the learning curve for astrophotography, your chances are similar to being able to play a guitar right out of the box, without having first learned to play.  This isn't like pointing your phone at somebody and clicking a single button.

My post was not referring to the learning curve involved in AP. We all know the many software's and other accessories that are needed with their own issues, tweaks, trial and errors to produce a decent AP photo. 

 

I'm referring to the mechanics and build quality out of the box that in its self would not need any repairs or modifications to function properly. Example of the guitar...if its cracked no matter if you know how to use it or not, or add news strings, etc. the sound quality could very well be compromised. Understand?

Cheers

Don


Edited by emflocater, 21 January 2019 - 05:57 PM.


#7 scadvice

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Posted 21 January 2019 - 05:57 PM

IMO--- 90% of the good name mounts at the $2000 price point limit work out of the box for those who can interpret the manual. The manuals sometimes leave alot to be desired (As does my writing /syntax).  Of the other 10%...9% are operators error...and only the 1% is a manufacture defect.

 

I agree with Wade, generally you only hear about problems and the majority of those problems I think are operator error.

 

Your main question... My answer is the three mounts under $2000 that I would suggest (depending on the payload) are:

 

iOptron30

iOptron CEM25P

EQ6-R- Pro

 

However that is only from my personal experience so there could be others under your 2k limit.


Edited by scadvice, 21 January 2019 - 05:59 PM.

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#8 OldManSky

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Posted 21 January 2019 - 06:01 PM

Sure.

I've had several.

The most recent was an iOptron CEM25P I got just before Christmas.

It's carrying a William Optics Z61, a 50mm guide scope, Orion StarShooter guider, and Canon T3i.

 

Easy setup.  Only adjustments were for polar alignment and balancing my load.

About 6 arc-secs PE out of the box (it's guaranteed to be 10 or under).  And nice and smooth.

Connected to ASCOM without any issues.

PHD2 pulse-guides it without any issues.

I did a test imaging run Saturday night (big huge moon, but good for tests).  Was getting 0.74" RMS guiding with 2 second exposures on the guider, nice tight round stars on everything from 30 sec. to 4 min. subs on the WO61 and T3i.

 

I haven't tuned, adjusted, greased, or fought with anything.  Set up, polar align, balance, and go.  

 

Caveat:  I've been doing AP for over 20 years.  That probably helps.  But it *was* "out of the box" simple and effective.


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#9 emflocater

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Posted 21 January 2019 - 06:05 PM

Are the iOptron Mounts that good and reliable? I remember when they first came out I had read many negative things about them, thus I avoided them. Have they designed them over the years to be better, or was it a myth of the reviews years ago I read about iOptron Mounts.

Cheers

Don



#10 psandelle

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Posted 21 January 2019 - 06:19 PM

You will always hear negative things here, and, also, when things first come out (though I had one of the first iEQ30s and it was perfect) there are generally teething problems. But none of the mounts mentioned are that new anymore. One can get a lemon at any time. grin.gif

 

Paul


Edited by psandelle, 21 January 2019 - 06:22 PM.

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#11 OldManSky

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Posted 21 January 2019 - 06:20 PM

Don,

I've only owned 1 (so far).  It was that good an reliable.  From what I read, it looks like their QA and manufacturing have improved...maybe even considerably.  

 

I have to admit, there was one issue with mine that I didn't mention (it was so minor)...

There was a bit of paint in the thread at the bottom on the mount where the tripod screws on.

It made the thread really hard to screw in.

So rather than try and force it, I looked at the threads, saw the bit of paint "overspray," grabbed an exacto knife, and cleaned the threads.  Then everything was great. 


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#12 WadeH237

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Posted 21 January 2019 - 07:05 PM

I'm referring to the mechanics and build quality out of the box that in its self would not need any repairs or modifications to function properly.

If that's the case, then I think that the normal case is to get a perfectly functional mount, and that an actual defective mount is a rarity.

 

As I said, I've bought *lots* of mounts in all price ranges.

 

Beyond my purchase experience, I've kind of set myself up as a troubleshooter at star parties, and some of the vendors send people my way when they would like help.  In my experience with working on dozens of mounts belonging to other people, I have only encountered two defective ones.  One of them was a CG-5 that was purchased used and had a defective hand controller.  I was able to loan the owner one of mine for the star party, and then he ordered a replacement when he got home.  In the second case, it was another Celestron mount (I don't remember if it was a CG-5 or an AVX).  He'd done a bunch of creating wiring of his own.  I actually got a shock when I touched it.  That's the only one where I ever through up my hands and gave up.

 

There have been countless cases where someone said that their mount didn't work, but turned out to be user error.  I always explain what I am doing to the owner.  In some cases, I'm sure that they get it, and in others I'm not as sure.

 

But experience has told me that if you know what you are doing, and you have correct expectations, the vast majority of mounts work just fine.


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#13 Michael Harris

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Posted 21 January 2019 - 07:07 PM

My Celestron AVX (less than 1K$) performed well without mechanical tweaks or other such stuff. I was the problem, not knowing how to use a GEM. For AP it’s “okay” if you are at wide fields/small f ratio, but for AP I moved into the >$2K realm. It is still good for visual go-to.



#14 DeanS

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Posted 21 January 2019 - 07:23 PM

Have to ask yourself what are your expectations.  Sure the mount may work as advertised, but is that good enough for what you want to do?  Have to be realistic as well because that $2k mount is not going to be in the same league as a $8k mount.


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#15 17.5Dob

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Posted 21 January 2019 - 07:30 PM

Never had a mechanical issue in any of my mounts....user errors....plenty.

Are there tweaks you can do to improve the performance even more...sure.

Is a <$2,000 mount, with all of the tweaks, going to let you shoot 5 minute unguided subs, at full manufactures weight rating, and 2,000mm+ fl....not a snowballs chance in a hot place.

You need to keep your expectations in line with reality

 


Edited by 17.5Dob, 21 January 2019 - 07:39 PM.

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#16 f300v10

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Posted 21 January 2019 - 08:56 PM

I purchased my EQ6-R in October.  With no adjustments to the mount at all, I'm averaging < 0.75 RMS arcsec guiding accuracy with a 32lb payload.  I'm very happy with my mount.


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#17 emflocater

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Posted 21 January 2019 - 09:27 PM

Its great to hear that many of you have had very positive experiences with your "out of the box" mounts. I know that we don't hear this much because it seems that on CN were mostly used to "How to fix" or "My new mount has a problem" type posts. Really nice to hear the opposite, which shows New Folks and others thinking of purchasing a new mount, that great experiences are more the norm.

Cheers

Don



#18 rgsalinger

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Posted 21 January 2019 - 09:43 PM

My iOptron iEQ45 worked fine out of the box. My Orion AZ/EQ6 worked perfectly out of the box. I had experience with using a GEM - I had a Celestron CGE back in the day when they were new. I think that majority of problems that people have with any new mount come from user error. This is often exacerbated by poor manuals and the lack of a mentor. 

Rgrds-Ross


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#19 mikefulb

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Posted 21 January 2019 - 09:49 PM

We've had several Orion Atlas Pro as well as an EQ6-R purchased by club members in the past year and only 1 had a problem and Orion was good about replacing the mount.


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#20 Erik30

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Posted 21 January 2019 - 09:54 PM

My iEQ45-GTN has worked great out of the box for visual use.. I have imaged with it, but it is far from flawless.  But, then again, as another has posted it is all what you want to do.  Don't expect a sub $2k mount to get 5min unguided subs at 2000mm.. As long as the user has a reasonable expectation I think there are a lot of great sub $2k mounts for AP.


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#21 Night shift

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Posted 21 January 2019 - 10:06 PM

Its great to hear that many of you have had very positive experiences with your "out of the box" mounts. I know that we don't hear this much because it seems that on CN were mostly used to "How to fix" or "My new mount has a problem" type posts. Really nice to hear the opposite, which shows New Folks and others thinking of purchasing a new mount, that great experiences are more the norm.

Cheers

Don

 I bought my mount used. Took it out of boxes set it up and after a small learning curve, I have not been let down. After 1 year of owning it, I greased, tightened belts and inspected worm gear play. Any and all questions I had, have been answered by the manufacturer and here on CN


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#22 baron555

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Posted 21 January 2019 - 10:47 PM

My used GM-8 which I upgraded to Gemini-II and better motors and Ovision worm on RA works great.


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#23 Stephen Kennedy

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Posted 21 January 2019 - 11:09 PM

I purchased a new Pentax MS-5 GEM while stationed in Japan 31 years ago. Not only did it function perfectly out of the box. it has never had a malfunction of any kind and still performs flawlessly to this day.
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#24 ZL4PLM

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Posted 22 January 2019 - 12:55 AM

out of the box ..... 

 

CEM25P

AVX

CGEM

CGX 

 

all worked fine :)


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#25 rmollise

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Posted 22 January 2019 - 06:34 AM

There is no need to shout at us with bold centered type. 

So you pasted it all so we could see it again... :lol:


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