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Explore Scientific Silver Grade 102mm ED Objective Defect

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#1 John Kocijanski

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Posted 15 February 2019 - 04:23 PM

I took a chance on a Explore Scientific 102mm ED from Highpoint Scientific.  The objective seems to have a scratch to one of the internal elements as shown in the picture.  Is this acceptable for Silver Grade?  Not sure yet if it has any impact of the views as I have not tried it at night.  I contacted Highpoint and sent them the picture and they will contact Explore Scientific to see what they say.  I'm still think about returning it to Highpoint.  Too bad because if looks like a nice scope otherwise. 

 

 

IMG_1690.JPG


Edited by John Kocijanski, 15 February 2019 - 09:24 PM.

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#2 dr.who

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Posted 15 February 2019 - 04:38 PM

If you aren’t happy return it. Alternatively contact ES directly and see if they will replace it free of charge. That shouldn’t be a silver grade scope in my opinion
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#3 gardenfish

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Posted 15 February 2019 - 04:47 PM

With ES warranty I would think they will fix it free of charge. I do not know what Silver Grade means though.


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#4 SeattleScott

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Posted 15 February 2019 - 04:54 PM

Silver grade means the first buyer returned it, probably due to the scratch on the lens. So now they are selling it as a discount since it has a defect. It seems like the scratch could have a minor impact on high power lunar/planetary viewing. You could always try it out and see. You just have to decide if the defect is worth the discount. If you got 25% maybe you live with it and take the savings. If it was only 5-10% off I would probably return it.

Scott
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#5 John Kocijanski

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Posted 15 February 2019 - 05:01 PM

Silver grade means the first buyer returned it, probably due to the scratch on the lens. So now they are selling it as a discount since it has a defect. It seems like the scratch could have a minor impact on high power lunar/planetary viewing. You could always try it out and see. You just have to decide if the defect is worth the discount. If you got 25% maybe you live with it and take the savings. If it was only 5-10% off I would probably return it.

Scott

That was my thought as well.  The discount was from $1029 down to $772.  I plan to try it out before I decide.



#6 SeattleScott

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Posted 15 February 2019 - 05:01 PM

With ES warranty I would think they will fix it free of charge. I do not know what Silver Grade means though.

ES sold it at a discount because there was a defect. So you can’t necessarily expect them to sell it at a discount and then do a free repair to fix the defect. It really depends on the severity of the defect and the amount of the discount. If he doesn’t feel like the discount warrants the defect, he can return it and pay full price for a new one. You can’t really expect to get say a 20% discount and receive a mint condition scope. You are getting the discount for a reason. You just have to decide if it is worth the discount.

Scott
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#7 Vondragonnoggin

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Posted 15 February 2019 - 05:02 PM

You would be hard pressed to see effects of that scratch even if imaging.

 

Check out this article on the effects of scratches in real use:

 

https://petapixel.co...lity-of-a-lens/

 

This one is on a camera lens comparison but I’ve seen similar articles on refractor telescope objectives and reflector objectives.


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#8 photoracer18

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Posted 15 February 2019 - 05:08 PM

For that big a discount and how minor a scratch like that will be I would keep it if a sky test shows nothing else wrong. You won't see that in a star test anyway.


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#9 John Kocijanski

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Posted 15 February 2019 - 05:10 PM

You would be hard pressed to see effects of that scratch even if imaging.

 

Check out this article on the effects of scratches in real use:

 

https://petapixel.co...lity-of-a-lens/

 

This one is on a camera lens comparison but I’ve seen similar articles on refractor telescope objectives and reflector objectives.

This is my thought as well especially since I will be using it almost exclusively for visual observing.  I will give it a test the next clear night I get. 



#10 Vondragonnoggin

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Posted 15 February 2019 - 05:17 PM

Your worst issue with it would most likely be that you know it’s not perfect and even though you can’t see the effects of the scratch, you know it’s there. Try not to let it drive you crazy. When I modded my Mak Cass I had to open it up and instead of taking the entire back with mirror off, I started to work on it with just the meniscus off in the front. I ended up dropping a nut down the tube and it touched the primary. I shined my flashlight down at the primary and thought I could see a tiny mark which I promptly tried to wipe with a lens pen so I wouldn’t have to clean the mirror and back assembly.

 

That just made another weird looking mark. I then took out the back assembly with mirror and wrapped the assembly up so it was water sealed and gently cleaned the mirror. A slightly different hue where I had touched the lens pen to it in a very small spot. No other marks on the mirror which was now pristine again after a distilled water rinse and mopping the last little drops by just touching the drop and not the mirror with a corner of a paper towel. Perfectly cleaned, but I knew it was not like the brand new mirror from factory.

 

Tested it and everything looked beautiful. Have had perfect seeing nights where the scope performed on planets at 400x and it’s a 6” scope.

 

Ended up buying a used one to compare to mine. Used one had pristine mirror. Never opened up, etc. 

 

Performs exactly like my first one. Can tell zero difference. Stopped worrying about the first one.  gaah.gif fingertap.gif


Edited by Vondragonnoggin, 15 February 2019 - 05:19 PM.

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#11 Mr. Mike

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Posted 15 February 2019 - 05:22 PM

Actually, I just bought a silver grade refurb 102mm directy from ES over the phone yesterday.  We discussed what the defect was and its strictly cosmetic in my case.  The tube rings left tinted dark bands around the tube due to being placed on the tube before the paint dried fully.  I coulnt care less.  I was assured that everything else was as new.  I paid $804 minus the 10% first time buyer discount so that got it down to $720-ish.  I should have mine Wednesday and Ill report my findings here ASAP once I give it the go-over.  Im confident but we shall see.

 

Silver grade scopes DO get looked over and reconditioned where needed so Im suprised the OP had this defect.  I dont think they just take a return and throw it back on the shelf.... that wouldnt be cool.  I would see what they say.  I bet they help you out.  They appear to have great service and a good reputation.  

 

Its funny that the OP got one from Hi-Point. I caled them the day before I bought directly from ES and they said they had sold the last one so I may have gotten the same scope that the OP ended up with.  Report back and let us know that you end up happy here. 


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#12 Vondragonnoggin

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Posted 15 February 2019 - 05:33 PM

If it were me and everything looked good in a star test, I would keep it and forget about that little scratch, but I had to go through all those shenanigans listed in my previous post to get to that mentality.

 

lol.gif

 

edit - if I had bought new and paid full price and wasn’t the cause of the defect, I would return it though.


Edited by Vondragonnoggin, 15 February 2019 - 05:35 PM.

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#13 Jeff Lee

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Posted 15 February 2019 - 05:34 PM

Call them and send the image to them. They worked with me on returning two defective scopes. By the way If you need to send it back, tell them you want to use their shipping as it costs about $30 less.


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#14 SeattleScott

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Posted 15 February 2019 - 05:38 PM

ES will make repairs where practical. Let’s say there was an issue with the focuser not working properly. They would likely rework the focuser or even replace it to make sure the telescope functions normally. But a paint defect does not impact the normal operation of the telescope, and even an off axis scratch won’t really have a significant impact on the performance of the scope. Especially when you consider the cost of replacing the lens, I would not expect ES to replace it. Replacing a $200 focuser is one thing. An ED lens is another. Granted, if the lens was cracked, they would replace it. But this is just a fine scratch and not even in the middle of the field. So they discount it and sell it as is.

Bottom line, if you buy a silver grade scope for a considerable discount, you can’t expect it to be mint. You just have to decide if the discount is worth the defect. Calling ahead and inquiring about the defect is a good idea so you can decide if it is something you can live with.

Scott

Edited by SeattleScott, 15 February 2019 - 05:45 PM.

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#15 John Kocijanski

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Posted 15 February 2019 - 05:58 PM

ES will make repairs where practical. Let’s say there was an issue with the focuser not working properly. They would likely rework the focuser or even replace it to make sure the telescope functions normally. But a paint defect does not impact the normal operation of the telescope, and even an off axis scratch won’t really have a significant impact on the performance of the scope. Especially when you consider the cost of replacing the lens, I would not expect ES to replace it. Replacing a $200 focuser is one thing. An ED lens is another. Granted, if the lens was cracked, they would replace it. But this is just a fine scratch and not even in the middle of the field. So they discount it and sell it as is.

Bottom line, if you buy a silver grade scope for a considerable discount, you can’t expect it to be mint. You just have to decide if the discount is worth the defect. Calling ahead and inquiring about the defect is a good idea so you can decide if it is something you can live with.

Scott

My thoughts exactly.  I doubt they will replace the lens but I will wait to see what they say.  Highhpoint just gets the boxed scopes and does not open them up for inspection.  There is no specific details given on what is wrong with a particular scope in their description only general comments about Silver Grade.  Maybe buying directly from Explore would give you more specific details on a particular scope.



#16 santafe retiree

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Posted 15 February 2019 - 05:59 PM

My experience with ES is that they (Scott) will do everything in their power to solve whatever the problem is.  The ES Silver Grade program is described here:

 

https://explorescien...r-grade-program

 

and I would bet good money that ES will take the scope back and make it right.

 

Regards,

 

Tom  


Edited by santafe retiree, 15 February 2019 - 07:31 PM.

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#17 John Kocijanski

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Posted 15 February 2019 - 06:04 PM

My thoughts exactly.  I doubt they will replace the lens but I will wait to see what they say.  Highhpoint just gets the boxed scopes and does not open them up for inspection.  There is no specific details given on what is wrong with a particular scope in their description only general comments about Silver Grade.  Maybe buying directly from Explore would give you more specific details on a particular scope.

In addition to the scratch the decals on the dew shield are a little smudged and the finder scope bracket screws were missing.  No big deal with those problems.  Highpoint said they can get the screws sent to me.



#18 junomike

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Posted 15 February 2019 - 06:59 PM

If you're planning on keeping it then no worries however be aware that in the used market it would fetch peanuts (due to said scratch).


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#19 junomike

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Posted 15 February 2019 - 06:59 PM

My experience with ES is that they (Scott) will do everything in their power to solve whatever the problem is.  The ES Silver Grade program is described here:

 

https://explorescien...grade-program  

 

and I would bet good money that ES will take the scope back and make it right.

 

Regards,

 

Tom  

Link didn't work for me?



#20 mandopickr

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Posted 15 February 2019 - 07:15 PM

Silver grade telescopes come with full mechanical and optical warranties; they do NOT carry cosmetic warranties.


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#21 santafe retiree

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Posted 15 February 2019 - 07:32 PM

Link didn't work for me?

Thanks for the heads up Mike -- fixed now



#22 junomike

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Posted 15 February 2019 - 07:52 PM

Silver grade telescopes come with full mechanical and optical warranties; they do NOT carry cosmetic warranties.

Yes, so this one should be warranted. A scratch IMO is more than cosmetic.


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#23 SeattleScott

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Posted 15 February 2019 - 08:11 PM

Good information. I would think ES would take it back for a full refund. I don’t know that they would replace the lens for free. Maybe, worth asking I suppose.

Of course it could still be worth trying out. Maybe it has an excellent figure. I would rather have an excellent figure with a scratch than a middling figure with no scratch.

Scott
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#24 stevew

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Posted 15 February 2019 - 09:03 PM

I really doubt that the faint scratch will have any effect at the eyepiece. I suppose the OP will have to decide if the $257 savings off a new scope is worth the cosmetic defect.

Good idea to test it first.

 

Back in 1994 I purchased a Meade 16 inch Starfinder. When I opened the box containing the mirror I was sad to see that there was a small amount of aluminum that had rubbed off the edge due to the mirror shifting under a cork retaining clip. The telescope store offered to order me a new one if I wanted. I took the mirror to a friend of mine who tested it and told me that it was 1/4 wave, which was a better figure than the typical large economy priced mirrors of the day like Coulter. I moved the part of the mirror with the missing aluminum under a mirror clip and forgot about it.  

Well I still have it after 25 years, and it has provided me some of the most spectacular views of the universe I have ever seen.

 

So I would say test it under the night sky, if it's got a good figure forget about the scratch and enjoy the discount and the views.

 

Steve


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#25 John Kocijanski

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Posted 15 February 2019 - 09:18 PM

If you're planning on keeping it then no worries however be aware that in the used market it would fetch peanuts (due to said scratch).

Very true.  You would have to almost give it away.


Edited by John Kocijanski, 15 February 2019 - 10:54 PM.



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