Jump to content

  •  

CNers have asked about a donation box for Cloudy Nights over the years, so here you go. Donation is not required by any means, so please enjoy your stay.

Photo

Info on Aliexpress: Ciwa USB 20MP optical electronic eyepiece

astrophotography imaging EAA
  • Please log in to reply
11 replies to this topic

#1 AstroKerr

AstroKerr

    Messenger

  • *****
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 466
  • Joined: 07 Sep 2017
  • Loc: Page, AZ US

Posted 03 March 2019 - 11:44 PM

Ciwa USB 20MP optical electronic eyepieces recorded and photographed for microscopes and astronomical telescopes on AliExpress

 

I know it's too good to be (completely) true, but does anyone have one / first hand experience with one? If not, I guess I'll be a test rat.

 

I'll be happy if the wifi works, the 2" screen works, and it's res is better than 640x480 - need somethiong like this for a test bench setup.

 

Many thanks for any insight.

 

Clear Skies, Sharp Eyes and, sometimes, there is a grain of truth in electronic eyepiece listings...



#2 ccs_hello

ccs_hello

    Voyager 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 10171
  • Joined: 03 Jul 2004

Posted 03 March 2019 - 11:55 PM

No need to have first hand experience on it.

Don't bother.

(Many reasons too long not worth time on that discussion.)

 

Hint: spend time on this forum to understand why we only choose certain imagers and methods.



#3 slepage

slepage

    Mariner 2

  • *****
  • Posts: 295
  • Joined: 02 Jan 2010
  • Loc: San Diego

Posted 04 March 2019 - 12:00 AM

I just checked out the website that you provided.  The res appears to be 1920x1080.  Only thing other then the fact that it is AliExpress, is that all the images are highly processed yet they want you to believe that it is what you will see straight from the scope.  I like truth in advertisement.  Still, I would love to see what you think of it once you get it.

 

Steve



#4 diceless

diceless

    Vostok 1

  • -----
  • Posts: 137
  • Joined: 23 Mar 2017
  • Loc: Southern California

Posted 04 March 2019 - 12:10 AM

No first hand experience but this is my impressions.

 

Sensor size looks like it is smaller than a 1/3" format and at 20mp it will provide extremely small pixels.  The goto color 1/3" sensor is the IMX224 with only 1.2mp.

No ascom support, you will be stuck with just the cameras software.

No mention of max exposure, will need to assume it will be too short for any DSO.

 

I have a feeling if purchased, it will be used once or twice and then hit the junk drawer.



#5 halx

halx

    Vendor (DSO Planner)

  • *****
  • Vendors
  • Posts: 1727
  • Joined: 28 Sep 2010
  • Loc: Albany, California, USA

Posted 04 March 2019 - 12:16 AM

Who knows. But at any rate, it should be better than the Pixel 3 phone strapped to the EP. Esp. at that price.



#6 OleCuss

OleCuss

    Vanguard

  • *****
  • Posts: 2147
  • Joined: 22 Nov 2010

Posted 04 March 2019 - 05:58 AM

Tough to figure out just what the thing has in it.  It looks kinda interesting if someone has the money laying about without anything else to do.

 

But I'd note that at one point they indicate it is 1080p.  Further down it is a 5120x3840 sensor.  That doesn't seem to match up.  Also, they indicate it is a 1/2.9" sensor.

 

It also says it is a Galaxycore sensor.  I found what appears the Galaxycore list of sensors:  http://www.gcoreinc....?lang=en&id=139 I'm having trouble finding a 20MP sensor or a 1/2.9" sensor in that list - but it's early and maybe I've not yet awakened.

 

Also, if it is a 1080p sensor then it isn't 20MP.  If it has a resolution of 5120x3840 then it is a roughly 20MP sensor and isn't 1080P but more into 4K+ territory?

 

Oh, and if you have 5120x3840 pixels crammed into a 1/2.9 format wouldn't you have pixels of about 1 micron?  Unless they've arranged an incredible technological feat I'd expect a noisy sensor with poor dynamic range.

 

I strongly suspect the people selling that camera either don't know what is in the camera or both don't know what is in the camera and don't know much about cameras.  OK, OK, they might be deliberately lying but if they know about this stuff I'd expect them to at least give out consistent information.

 

I suspect if I were wanting to buy a camera in that price range that I'd instead get the Bresser MicrOkular:  https://explorescien...-and-telescopes  I'd not expect much from it, but at least it has a decent pixel size and doesn't seem to be inconsistent about what it is (they don't give a lot of info, however).

 

BTW, one might wonder just what kind of WiFi?  Is this acting as a true WiFi hotspot?  Is it doing the near-field thing?  I'd note that it is using a USB cable for power and that might be a bit wimpy for both imaging and WiFi.  Yup, it has a battery but it is not clear how long that will power the thing.

 

To call me skeptical about the camera would be to understate the situation.

 

Still, if one were wanting to use the thing for Lunar/planetary viewing with a short focal length scope with decent aperture - it might work out OK?

 

Edit:  I forgot to mention that the required app doesn't seem to be rated very well.  It doesn't seem to work at all for some folk - and hasn't been updated since August.


Edited by OleCuss, 04 March 2019 - 06:01 AM.


#7 mclewis1

mclewis1

    Thread Killer

  • *****
  • Posts: 18292
  • Joined: 25 Feb 2006
  • Loc: New Brunswick, Canada

Posted 04 March 2019 - 09:16 AM

We're always interested in encouraging "guinea pigs" ... but we also don't want to see folks waste their hard earned money or experience unnecessary frustration trying out hardware for EAA observing. A few comments about the camera ... 

 

The input connection is a 23mm barrel ... so you'll also need a .965 to 1.25" adapter to use it on most telescopes. 

 

The app is important ... and as CCS has warned if the camera doesn't offer enough sensitivity (both the sensor itself and the ability to adjust the gain and exposures sufficiently via the app) it will be frustrating to use it for EAA style observing. Since the overall sensitivity is likely to be low it would be important to try the camera on a scope that is as fast as possible, so getting the working f ratio of your scope down as low as practical will be helpful.

 

The other item is the driver for the camera. If it offers the capability to appear as a standard Windows video device (DirectShow for example) then you might be able to use the camera with 3rd party software such as SharpCap which would be very helpful.

 

So my general view would be that while I'm really curious about the product it seems to be a real gamble with the odds falling on the less positive side of things.

 

Oh and I'll bet serious money that none of the example images are real (they've been cut and pasted for the purposes of advertising the camera ... they're suggested possibilities).


Edited by mclewis1, 04 March 2019 - 09:20 AM.


#8 halx

halx

    Vendor (DSO Planner)

  • *****
  • Vendors
  • Posts: 1727
  • Joined: 28 Sep 2010
  • Loc: Albany, California, USA

Posted 04 March 2019 - 11:42 PM

I doubt it's any good for EAA, though it's "Returns accepted if product not as described". So if any of the concerns confirmed just ship it back. You can even negotiate the free return shipping.

 

30x1080p vs 20Mp specs is not nonsense, as the 20Mp could only work for stills, while 1080p (crop or grid) is exclusively for videos (that's dictated by the RAM subsystem speeds). I would be more concerned about the level of the hardware control provided (shutter, gain, tracking, etc). Especially over the WiFi or Cable connection. Which is doubtful. Still, there are some decent applications possible.

 

This sensor could be much better modern tech compared to that ancient Bresser chip. Pixel size - yes, tiny - usually no good for low light. Still, I would try it. The tech is evolving exponentially. At $55 shipped is not $70 Bresser before shipping and taxes. Add to that the screen, card slot, Wifi, and autonomous functionality (no PC connection needed) and it is a much better waste of money compared to dumb Bresser as soon as the sensor is not total junk.



#9 halx

halx

    Vendor (DSO Planner)

  • *****
  • Vendors
  • Posts: 1727
  • Joined: 28 Sep 2010
  • Loc: Albany, California, USA

Posted 05 March 2019 - 12:17 AM

By the way, you can find a very similar externally camera but with a 170 deg lens, scuba housing, and wireless remote for only $21. Though it's with some Sony sensor and 4K video: https://www.ebay.com...353.m2749.l2649



#10 ccs_hello

ccs_hello

    Voyager 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 10171
  • Joined: 03 Jul 2004

Posted 05 March 2019 - 07:46 AM

By the way, you can find a very similar externally camera but with a 170 deg lens, scuba housing, and wireless remote for only $21. Though it's with some Sony sensor and 4K video: https://www.ebay.com...353.m2749.l2649

21 bucks, "for" SONY IMX179 sensor, 4K sportcam, HERO like.  Really???

 

Sure it is not.  If it is too good to be true, it is not.

See this YT video and others' comments....

https://www.youtube....h?v=KnoPZTARhPU



#11 OleCuss

OleCuss

    Vanguard

  • *****
  • Posts: 2147
  • Joined: 22 Nov 2010

Posted 05 March 2019 - 10:37 AM

Yup!  They are somehow getting 16MP out of an 8MP IMX179 sensor.  True wizardry!



#12 halx

halx

    Vendor (DSO Planner)

  • *****
  • Vendors
  • Posts: 1727
  • Joined: 28 Sep 2010
  • Loc: Albany, California, USA

Posted 05 March 2019 - 12:38 PM

LOL! Let's hope the OP's one has a better chip. The exact same casing is what caught my attention.




CNers have asked about a donation box for Cloudy Nights over the years, so here you go. Donation is not required by any means, so please enjoy your stay.


Recent Topics





Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: astrophotography, imaging, EAA



Cloudy Nights LLC
Cloudy Nights Sponsor: Astronomics