Jump to content

  •  

CNers have asked about a donation box for Cloudy Nights over the years, so here you go. Donation is not required by any means, so please enjoy your stay.

Photo

What to do? Windows 10 or new OS for 4k and astro

  • Please log in to reply
35 replies to this topic

#1 gunny01

gunny01

    Apollo

  • *****
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 1473
  • Joined: 02 Jun 2014

Posted 11 March 2019 - 07:26 AM

  Let me start off with my level of computer literacy....very little ( think IQ level for computer OS's of maybe 60).  I've had great success with win 7, but with all of the negative reviews/problems that I see with win 10, I'm reluctant to buy/build a new computer with win 10 on it.

 

 Where the rub comes is what to do with the newer camera tech. that I'm finding on 4k cameras for both stills and video.  Win 7 can't handle the 4k video processing programs such as Corel products that require win 8 or 10.  I also want to have the ability to do astroimaging (AI) with my current stable of programs:  SGP, PI, PS5, ect, and the ethernet connection that I have going to my observatory.

 

  Looking at Linux seems a no go due to difficulty level and lack of compatibility with my AI programs.  I've thought about Mac, but again there is that lack of compatibility with the AI. 

 

  For the sake of Kiss, is there a solution out there, or am I just chasing my tail?  Thanks for any help.

 

 


  • Oleg Astro likes this

#2 Oleg Astro

Oleg Astro

    Astronomy Linux

  • -----
  • Vendors
  • Posts: 363
  • Joined: 12 Aug 2008
  • Loc: Albufeira, Portugal

Posted 11 March 2019 - 07:35 AM

Hello,

you can try Astronomy Linux 16.04 (based on Ubuntu 16.04 64-bit + Gnome Classic) without its installation:

default password is 12341234

 

See more information in topic New open project “Astronomy Linux”


  • Boki likes this

#3 einarin

einarin

    Surveyor 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 1595
  • Joined: 23 Dec 2016

Posted 11 March 2019 - 07:41 AM

And yet, there are many users who don't have problems operating with win10 - me included.


  • nemo129, jpbutler, Steve Cox and 2 others like this

#4 Oleg Astro

Oleg Astro

    Astronomy Linux

  • -----
  • Vendors
  • Posts: 363
  • Joined: 12 Aug 2008
  • Loc: Albufeira, Portugal

Posted 11 March 2019 - 07:50 AM

Software for Mac are here: http://www.cloudmakers.eu/



#5 rgsalinger

rgsalinger

    Skylab

  • *****
  • Moderators
  • Posts: 4180
  • Joined: 19 Feb 2007
  • Loc: Carlsbad Ca

Posted 11 March 2019 - 08:00 AM

I was a pioneer for Windows 10 - in the insider group 6 months before the launch. I've configured about 8 systems for myself and friends to do astronomy with Win10. Here's what I think. The single most annoying thing are the updates. Period. The second most annoying thing are the updates. To tame those, get Win10Pro which gives you a lot of leeway to avoid them. Also, just to make sure I start up my systems an hour before imaging and will often reboot them just before the start of a run. That way the updates are installed. Or you can just leave the computer on.

 

In the 3 plus years I've been using the OS, I've had exactly two problems. The first was that one component of one of my systems - an Apogee filter wheel - seems to uninstall itself after certain updates. We have to reinstall the driver and (since we use MaximDL) the MDL plug in as well to get it going again. Haven't had that problem in over a year but it's still lurking. Second problem was the ASCOM fiasco that happened last year. I don't want to recap that but my system got hit with one component and a friend had the same problem- his camera wouldn't work after an update.

 

Other than that, 8 systems and no problems. I like the idea that these days most astronomy software is being developed first for Windows and the vendors are testing on Win10 based systems for sure. That gives me more confidence that everything will work in the future. If one stayed on Win7, there's not much downside at all at this point, though. I do like the very fast boot and shutdown and I prefer the GUI of Win10 but that may be more personal than anything which could be described as an objective advantage.

 

Rgrds-Ross 


  • xtrmfit and Dynan like this

#6 Oleg Astro

Oleg Astro

    Astronomy Linux

  • -----
  • Vendors
  • Posts: 363
  • Joined: 12 Aug 2008
  • Loc: Albufeira, Portugal

Posted 11 March 2019 - 08:17 AM

...

...

 

I was a pioneer for Windows 10 - in the insider group 6 months before the launch. I've configured about 8 systems for myself and friends to do astronomy with Win10. Here's what I think. The

Other than that, 8 systems and no problems. I like the idea that these days most astronomy software is being developed first for Windows and the vendors are testing on Win10 based systems for sure. That gives me more confidence that everything will work in the future. If one stayed on Win7, there's not much downside at all at this point, though. I do like the very fast boot and shutdown and I prefer the GUI of Win10 but that may be more personal than anything which could be described as an objective advantage.

 

Rgrds-Ross 

Yes, you are right.

 

I like the idea of cross-platform software for astronomy: Skychart/Cartes du Ciel, Stellarium, KStars, HNSKY, Virtual Moon Atlas, Virtual Planet Atlas, Celestia, ASTAP, Siril, Audela, PHD, CCDciel, SAOImage DS9, ... + Java astrosoftware + other commercial astrosoftware.

Why?

We live in XXI century and we cannot neglect the interests of Linux and Mac users.

 

Am I right?...


Edited by Oleg Astro, 11 March 2019 - 08:32 AM.


#7 descott12

descott12

    Ranger 4

  • -----
  • Posts: 384
  • Joined: 28 Sep 2018
  • Loc: Charlotte, NC

Posted 11 March 2019 - 08:53 AM

Unfortunately, we live in a windows world. As a software developer for 25+ years, I have seen Windows devolve from a relatively simple OS with a straightforward interface (i.e. XP) to a horrible monstrosity of never ending updates and incompatibilities  and an absolutely worthless interface.  

 

As far as OS's are concerned, there are much better options IMO (i.e. OSX) but you won't get anywhere near the support from the various software vendors that we rely on for this hobby.

 

Linux is pretty cool if you like to tinker, but given your lack of IT expertise, I don't think that is the right route for you.

 

So, I would try to get your apps going on Windows 7 - I don't think that should be a problem but it may be with various drivers.... If Win 7 doesn't work, you will likely need to bite the bullet and move to Windows 10.


  • gunny01 likes this

#8 vio

vio

    Vostok 1

  • -----
  • Posts: 102
  • Joined: 27 Apr 2011
  • Loc: Fort Lauderdale, FL

Posted 11 March 2019 - 09:05 AM

I’ve done Unix-based development for 30 years, and still do currently. At home, I have been using Macs for 15 years. Yet, I find it easier to have all I need for Astrophotography on Windows. For the last few years, Win10. Win7 was ok, Win8 was somewhat of a mistake (Microsoft’s stepping stone towards Win10), but Win10 has been a stable environment for the tools I have been using for AP, drivers being a major dependency.

As a software person myself, with a native curiosity and spirit of adventure, I started a few months ago to setup a few Linux-based setups for AP, a mix of VMs and direct installations, using a few distributions. While I still have a few decent setups, my overall impression is that this is still a work in progress that the regular user may not have a direct benefit from. Some of the issues I faced include disappearance of key repeat when typing or using delete or arrow keys in a command line, crashes on INDI due to camera driver instabilities and timeouts on reading the image data, losing configuration from updates (via apt). Interesting enough is that for work, I don’t experience such level of instability on server deployments (lately on CentOS), so I assume it is mostly the level of AP software and drivers support for Linux than anything else. I’m happy that I get to use Linux for a few usable setups (now fairly stable), but still miss software that I only have on Windows, including the ASCOM drivers for my mount (Losmandy G11/Gemini2). Using APT for controlling the setup and imaging is another package I miss in my flow. We’ll see what happens in the near future, but at this time I still think Win10 is the most stable platform for the regular AP user.

Best of luck with your setup!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
  • mclewis1 likes this

#9 Oleg Astro

Oleg Astro

    Astronomy Linux

  • -----
  • Vendors
  • Posts: 363
  • Joined: 12 Aug 2008
  • Loc: Albufeira, Portugal

Posted 11 March 2019 - 09:12 AM

...

 

As far as OS's are concerned, there are much better options IMO (i.e. OSX) but you won't get anywhere near the support from the various software vendors that we rely on for this hobby.

 

Linux is pretty cool if you like to tinker, but given your lack of IT expertise, I don't think that is the right route for you.

 

...

Dave,
I respect your life experience.

 

But I have other experience about support of astrosoftware for Linux and Mac.



#10 Oleg Astro

Oleg Astro

    Astronomy Linux

  • -----
  • Vendors
  • Posts: 363
  • Joined: 12 Aug 2008
  • Loc: Albufeira, Portugal

Posted 11 March 2019 - 09:33 AM

...

...

 

 I’m happy that I get to use Linux for a few usable setups (now fairly stable), but still miss software that I only have on Windows, including the ASCOM drivers for my mount (Losmandy G11/Gemini2).

...

You can control Losmany Gemini/Gemini2 mounts either via USB connection or Network in Linux and Mac.

INDI Gemini/Gemini2 Driver is included by default with INDI Library v1.0+

 

Did you know about it?


Edited by Oleg Astro, 11 March 2019 - 09:34 AM.

  • vio likes this

#11 Richard O'Neill

Richard O'Neill

    Surveyor 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 1915
  • Joined: 19 Aug 2014

Posted 11 March 2019 - 09:38 AM

I love Win 7 and find it a wonderful OS for my purposes but dread the day I can no longer buy a new computer loaded with it and am forced to accept Win 10. I still miss XP but not Vista, the OS from hell!


Edited by Richard O'Neill, 11 March 2019 - 09:39 AM.


#12 sg6

sg6

    Aurora

  • *****
  • Posts: 4587
  • Joined: 14 Feb 2010
  • Loc: Norfolk, UK.

Posted 11 March 2019 - 09:40 AM

The problem that many had/have with Win10 is the updates that it performs and the MS belief that you really do want their default setting and default drivers and so really do want the update to wipe out everything you set up.

 

So the "answer" would seem to be to block/prevent updates occuring. I don't think MS got it right. They seem to have thought it a good way to drip feed small improvements. It just didn't work out that simple/easy.

 

Lots of moans about Windows but in a way it meant we could send stuff to almost any part of the world and be 95% sure they could recieve and see/read/run it. We are now having to look at Windows, MacOs, Android, Chrome, Linux, unsure of where iOS stands.

 

I decided on a Win7 laptop, not the Win10 option. To an extent when I upgrade I will just get a newer laptop and keep this Win7 one for whatever needs Win7. OK software may get out of date. Maybe the latest version of some package will not run on it. But happy to use it as a stand alone machine maybe with stuff stripped out and use it and whatever "old" software to simply process images, and store them. I can go use the next one for whatever.

 

Just spent the morning looking at newer machines and one that looked useful was a Chrome book. Basically small. Trouble is I would like to use it for scope control with Skysafari, and that appears a no go area. Will not run on Windows and same I believe for Mac.

 

No real answer other then block Win10 updates or swap to another OS.

 

I still have one old PC running XP and to be honest it is pleasure to use, just seems more friendly.



#13 descott12

descott12

    Ranger 4

  • -----
  • Posts: 384
  • Joined: 28 Sep 2018
  • Loc: Charlotte, NC

Posted 11 March 2019 - 09:51 AM

Dave,
I respect your life experience.

 

But I have other experience about support of astrosoftware for Linux and Mac.

Hi Oleg,

I also respect your experience and I am sure you are correct about having good luck with non-windows platforms. However,  the original poster did say that he/she has very little IT experience so I think what I said still has some validity.



#14 descott12

descott12

    Ranger 4

  • -----
  • Posts: 384
  • Joined: 28 Sep 2018
  • Loc: Charlotte, NC

Posted 11 March 2019 - 09:52 AM

 

I still have one old PC running XP and to be honest it is pleasure to use, just seems more friendly.

Yep. Very true.



#15 Oleg Astro

Oleg Astro

    Astronomy Linux

  • -----
  • Vendors
  • Posts: 363
  • Joined: 12 Aug 2008
  • Loc: Albufeira, Portugal

Posted 11 March 2019 - 10:06 AM

Hi Oleg,

I also respect your experience and I am sure you are correct about having good luck with non-windows platforms. However,  the original poster did say that he/she has very little IT experience so I think what I said still has some validity.

Hi Dave,

we can help gunny01 in any case.

 

P.S. Windows XP was the latest Windows operating system on my home computers. But I started processing astronomical data from large science telescopes that needed Linux.
So, I began to study an unknown operating system in 2008.
That's how Linux became my operating system...



#16 f430

f430

    Messenger

  • *****
  • Posts: 406
  • Joined: 29 Sep 2015
  • Loc: La Mesa, CA.

Posted 11 March 2019 - 12:24 PM

I kicked and screamed and moaned when my Win 7 machine gave up the ghost, and finally had to go with a Win 10 Pro,,,,, but I have more problems/glitches with SGP than I do with Win 10 Pro. 

Pay the extra few bucks for the Pro edition to help control the updates, and don't look back.... 



#17 vio

vio

    Vostok 1

  • -----
  • Posts: 102
  • Joined: 27 Apr 2011
  • Loc: Fort Lauderdale, FL

Posted 11 March 2019 - 01:46 PM

You can control Losmany Gemini/Gemini2 mounts either via USB connection or Network in Linux and Mac.
INDI Gemini/Gemini2 Driver is included by default with INDI Library v1.0+

Did you know about it?


I do know, and believe I mentioned having a few Linux based setups which are functional, they all use INDI. The Gemini2 driver is what I use with INDI, but the user interface does not compare (in my opinion) to the one I have from the Gemini2 ASCOM driver. It may just be a cosmetic difference, but still ...
I enjoyed the experience of setting and tuning things up, but only as a software professional, not as a simple user looking to do AP.

Thanks for sharing the link, it is much appreciated.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

#18 rgsalinger

rgsalinger

    Skylab

  • *****
  • Moderators
  • Posts: 4180
  • Joined: 19 Feb 2007
  • Loc: Carlsbad Ca

Posted 11 March 2019 - 01:49 PM

So, one of the things that MS has reported is that they have a lower rate of support calls with Win10 than with any previous Windows version. So, claims that XP is better need some justification to be believable. Personally, my memory is that I often needed to reboot my old XP boxes. The Win10 boxes that I have running 24x7 never seem to need rebooting. The change from Win7 to Win10 for my "group" was seamless and easy on the five computers that I upgraded from Win7  of 2015 in my house.

 

I would not claim that any OS upgrade on a working astronomy system is EVER "worth it". I don't even upgrade my drivers or programs unless there is some reason. I would say, categorically, that unless you are utterly unable to learn things going from W7 to W10 just isn't much of a jump. I would, though, adamantly state that learning a new OS just to take astro-photos is a poor idea. That's not to say that I think it's pointless, just that it's going to be a lot of work for very little gain ignoring edge cases. 

 

As far as OSX is concerned, it's not exactly setting the world on fire. Mac sales peaked quite a while back and are on the downswing. 

 

Rgrds-Ross


  • gunny01 and Steve Cox like this

#19 BlueGrass

BlueGrass

    Vanguard

  • *****
  • Posts: 2280
  • Joined: 25 Jul 2009
  • Loc: Wasatch Front, UT

Posted 11 March 2019 - 10:49 PM

Gunny,

 

 At this point in time, the one stable path forward from Win 7, with minimal re-inventing the wheel for most users, is Win 10. For all of the well documented problems and annoyances with 10's update method, there's no alternative that I'm aware of that offers the same operating experience, application support and very importantly vendor support into the future. IMO, if and until Linux truly goes mainstream with support from all vendors and application developers, Windows will remain the off the shelf solution. 


  • Steve Cox likes this

#20 gunny01

gunny01

    Apollo

  • *****
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 1473
  • Joined: 02 Jun 2014

Posted 12 March 2019 - 06:11 AM

  Thanks to all of you for your insights.  I have to agree that learning a new system is not in the cards for me...........this old dog is getting too old to learn too many new tricks.  I will agree that the linux os seems to have a lot of potential and can be refined for guys like me.  I just wish that it could be brought down to a level that is understandable for the average windows and mac user.

 

  All of this said,  I have a question about a mac.  I had one years ago and as I remember, it seems that vmware had the ability to operate a windows environment for my windows based programs.  Is that still true today?  I'm guessing that they're may have been improvements since?

 

  As others have stated, I'm not looking forward to moving from 7 to 10.  



#21 moabyte

moabyte

    Apollo

  • -----
  • Moderators
  • Posts: 1241
  • Joined: 18 Sep 2015
  • Loc: UT

Posted 12 March 2019 - 07:01 AM

All of this said,  I have a question about a mac.  I had one years ago and as I remember, it seems that vmware had the ability to operate a windows environment for my windows based programs.  Is that still true today?  I'm guessing that they're may have been improvements since?


Indeed, yes. I'm running VMWare Fusion on mine. There's also VirtualBox, a free open source vm environment which I've also used. It's available for windows, mac, linux & solaris hosts.



#22 gunny01

gunny01

    Apollo

  • *****
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 1473
  • Joined: 02 Jun 2014

Posted 13 March 2019 - 05:45 AM

Indeed, yes. I'm running VMWare Fusion on mine. There's also VirtualBox, a free open source vm environment which I've also used. It's available for windows, mac, linux & solaris hosts.

   Thanks for that moabyte.  One item that I really like on the mac's is the video editing program final cut.



#23 descott12

descott12

    Ranger 4

  • -----
  • Posts: 384
  • Joined: 28 Sep 2018
  • Loc: Charlotte, NC

Posted 13 March 2019 - 07:23 AM

I use Parallels (another VM) on my Mac book pro. It works really well. However, I have never run any hardware/USB intensive stuff like SharpCap with it ( although others have reported good luck).



#24 dongallo

dongallo

    Explorer 1

  • -----
  • Posts: 69
  • Joined: 05 Aug 2018
  • Loc: Knoxville, TN

Posted 13 March 2019 - 05:21 PM

There is a very vocal minority that always poo poo's the latest OS from Microsoft. They do a great job spreading FUD. Windows 10 is by far the greatest OS ever developed in human history. It can handle 4K, plus it will give you far more software options for 4K than any other OS. There is no other OS that runs on the wide variety of hardware you want and can afford plus runs top quality do something software. I have used Windows 10 since the day it was released without a single issue. Not even a tiny one or even a wee little bitty one. In fact, I am very puzzled why all of the negativity towards Windows. 


  • nemo129 and Steve Cox like this

#25 Steve Cox

Steve Cox

    Apollo

  • -----
  • Posts: 1358
  • Joined: 19 Jan 2017

Posted 13 March 2019 - 06:26 PM

There is a very vocal minority that always poo poo's the latest OS from Microsoft. They do a great job spreading FUD. Windows 10 is by far the greatest OS ever developed in human history. It can handle 4K, plus it will give you far more software options for 4K than any other OS. There is no other OS that runs on the wide variety of hardware you want and can afford plus runs top quality do something software. I have used Windows 10 since the day it was released without a single issue. Not even a tiny one or even a wee little bitty one. In fact, I am very puzzled why all of the negativity towards Windows. 

I'll pretty much agree with this.  When I moved back to Win from Mac, my Dell 8-core desktop and Win 10 runs circles around pretty much anything Mac unless you spend upwards of $6K.  And this Dell only cost $900 when I bought it.  I've tried just about every major Linux RPM and Debian platform, but cannot get the software I need to do what I want.  For example, there are many DVD Rippers and Converter softwares out in Open Source, but none I could find with the capabilities of WinXDVD, especially the capability for decoding Disney encrypted disks to allow archiving or ripping to mpeg4 video files for travel.  And there are many more examples; don't get me wrong, I've found many great pieces of Open Source software in the Linux world I now use in Windows (such as RawTherapee, GIMP and others), but many come up short on capability or refinement, especially if 4K and DVD-Video/Blu-Ray authoring/archiving/reproduction are of interest.  And there are many Windows products as equally capable as Final Cut.

 

So for me, I'm very happy with Win 10, system update warts and all; happier in fact than I've been in years with any OS.  Win 7 wasn't always so pleasant for me to use, and ran lots slower.  And don't even get me started on XP, vomit.gifwhich as former IT I hated supporting (Win2K Pro was more stable for our shop).


Edited by Steve Cox, 13 March 2019 - 06:41 PM.

  • nemo129 likes this


CNers have asked about a donation box for Cloudy Nights over the years, so here you go. Donation is not required by any means, so please enjoy your stay.


Recent Topics






Cloudy Nights LLC
Cloudy Nights Sponsor: Astronomics