Jump to content

  •  

CNers have asked about a donation box for Cloudy Nights over the years, so here you go. Donation is not required by any means, so please enjoy your stay.

Photo

New Stowaway, help with EP's

  • Please log in to reply
23 replies to this topic

#1 DocGP

DocGP

    Sputnik

  • -----
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 25
  • Joined: 14 Sep 2007

Posted 13 March 2019 - 08:54 PM

I was blessed to obtain one of the new AP Stowaways, and it looks like there is room for about 5 EP's and a nice 2" diagonal in the case.  I am looking to basically trick it out with 5 dream eyepieces and have a set kit.  ERGO, looking for recommendations for the 5.  What would 5 you get for the short 92mm refractor?

 

Thanks
Doc

 

My current limited stable includes:

 

UO Konig MK 70 40mm

UO Konig MK 70 25mm

Televue Delos 17.3mm

Pentax SMC XW 5mm

Televue 3-5mm Nagler Zoom

 

If mods feel this would be better under EP section please move.  I couldn't decide if would be better here or there.



#2 Gavster

Gavster

    Messenger

  • -----
  • Posts: 420
  • Joined: 07 Mar 2014

Posted 13 March 2019 - 09:47 PM

I do like widefield and nice eye relief.

So the eyepieces I tend to use with my Stowaway are

21mm Ethos, 12mm ES 92, 6mm Ethos and a 4mm delite.

I also love using my Night Vision monocular with a 55mm televue plossl with my Stowaway for lovely views of faint emission nebulae. 


Edited by Gavster, 13 March 2019 - 09:48 PM.


#3 DocGP

DocGP

    Sputnik

  • -----
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 25
  • Joined: 14 Sep 2007

Posted 13 March 2019 - 10:27 PM

WOW, hadn't thought about that for the PVS 14's!!!



#4 nicknacknock

nicknacknock

    A man of many qualities, even if they are mostly bad ones

  • *****
  • Administrators
  • Posts: 11127
  • Joined: 20 Feb 2012
  • Loc: Nicosia, Cyprus

Posted 14 March 2019 - 06:11 AM

Almost completed a separate setup for my Stowaway. Vixen LVW 42mm and Nagler T5 26mm are on the way, with my TV Wide Field 40mm and TV Nagler 31mm to be used solely with my FS-128.

 

The attached shows basic info and I will also be using my trusty AP Barcon 2x 2" barlow to double up where required.

 

 

 

 

Attached Thumbnails

  • Capture.JPG


#5 CHASLX200

CHASLX200

    Hubble

  • *****
  • Posts: 16221
  • Joined: 29 Sep 2007
  • Loc: Tampa area Florida

Posted 14 March 2019 - 06:17 AM

Most any good wide field eyepiece should work great with such a fine scope.  A 21mm Ethos would have to be insane in a dark sky.



#6 peleuba

peleuba

    Apollo

  • *****
  • Posts: 1418
  • Joined: 01 Dec 2004
  • Loc: North of Baltimore, MD

Posted 14 March 2019 - 08:51 AM

I was blessed to obtain one of the new AP Stowaways, and it looks like there is room for about 5 EP's and a nice 2" diagonal in the case.  I am looking to basically trick it out with 5 dream eyepieces and have a set kit.

 

 

The new Stow is a small lightweight refractor and, to me, it makes absolutely no sense to use large heavy-weight eyepieces like the Ethos and Delos with it.  I think you would be best served with a set of Nagler Type 6's or a set of DeLites.  Add a 24mm Panoptic to get you the widest FOV in the 1.25" format.

 

I own complete sets of TeleVue Delos, NT6, and Delites among others, and can tell you that the Delite and the NT6 are phenomenal with pleasing AFOV in small refractors.  I find no need for large/heavy/uber FOV models that add unnecessary weight.  If I want this kind of FOV I use binoculars. 

 

I would sell the other eyepieces in your collection except for the Nagler 3-6 Zoom.

 

Be mindful that asking for eyepiece recommendations is folly.  In other words, what works for me may not work for you.  But, know that small form factor, high quality eyepieces will be a terrific fit with your new Stow. 


Edited by peleuba, 14 March 2019 - 08:57 AM.

  • Paul G, turtle86, Moondust and 3 others like this

#7 t.r.

t.r.

    Fly Me to the Moon

  • *****
  • Posts: 5912
  • Joined: 14 Feb 2008
  • Loc: 1123,6536,5321

Posted 14 March 2019 - 09:03 AM

A Leica Aspheric zoom would be a nice addition...TV 3-6 zoom for high mag, Aspheric zoom for mid, Konig MKs for low...all bases covered with a minimalist set. 😉

Edited by t.r., 14 March 2019 - 09:05 AM.

  • BradFran likes this

#8 ron scarboro

ron scarboro

    Ranger 4

  • *****
  • Posts: 353
  • Joined: 03 Jan 2016
  • Loc: Raleigh, NC

Posted 14 March 2019 - 05:14 PM

It is a grab and go scope, so get grab and go eyepieces IMHO. 

 

I’d get a high quality 1.25” diagonal and some Nagker T6 eyepieces and keep the whole rig portable. 

 

Seems  a like hanging 5# of crap off the back defeats the purpose. 


  • peleuba, turtle86 and Moondust like this

#9 jay.i

jay.i

    Vanguard

  • *****
  • Posts: 2409
  • Joined: 11 Jun 2017
  • Loc: Minneapolis, MN

Posted 14 March 2019 - 05:24 PM

It is a grab and go scope, so get grab and go eyepieces IMHO. 

 

I’d get a high quality 1.25” diagonal and some Nagker T6 eyepieces and keep the whole rig portable. 

 

Seems  a like hanging 5# of crap off the back defeats the purpose. 

And downgrade the sharpness of the lens? Pfft...... push it to the limit. Delos and Ethos all the way. A couple extra pounds of eyepieces isn't gonna make or break your ability to carry an entire mount+scope setup outside in one trip or not nor will it make or break your ability to put it all in a case, load it in your car, and go to a dark site. Air travel is different, but air travel is not grab and go.


  • elwaine and areyoukiddingme like this

#10 Joe Bergeron

Joe Bergeron

    Vendor - Space Art

  • -----
  • Vendors
  • Posts: 1933
  • Joined: 10 Nov 2003
  • Loc: Upstate NY

Posted 14 March 2019 - 06:10 PM

When my Stowaway flies, it travels with the following eyepieces:

22mm Panoptic 

12mm Radian

7mm Nagler 6

3.5mm Nagler 6


  • peleuba likes this

#11 areyoukiddingme

areyoukiddingme

    Soyuz

  • *****
  • Posts: 3903
  • Joined: 18 Nov 2012

Posted 14 March 2019 - 08:32 PM

The new Stow is a small lightweight refractor and, to me, it makes absolutely no sense to use large heavy-weight eyepieces like the Ethos and Delos with it.  I think you would be best served with a set of Nagler Type 6's or a set of DeLites.  Add a 24mm Panoptic to get you the widest FOV in the 1.25" format.

 

I own complete sets of TeleVue Delos, NT6, and Delites among others, and can tell you that the Delite and the NT6 are phenomenal with pleasing AFOV in small refractors.  I find no need for large/heavy/uber FOV models that add unnecessary weight.  If I want this kind of FOV I use binoculars. 

 

I would sell the other eyepieces in your collection except for the Nagler 3-6 Zoom.

 

Be mindful that asking for eyepiece recommendations is folly.  In other words, what works for me may not work for you.  But, know that small form factor, high quality eyepieces will be a terrific fit with your new Stow. 

My favorite eyepiece in my 80mm (5lb) apo is the 17 Nikon HW. It looks stupidly big and heavy, but that's all forgotten once you use it.



#12 gnowellsct

gnowellsct

    Voyager 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 14113
  • Joined: 24 Jun 2009

Posted 14 March 2019 - 09:09 PM

Well in the old days I would have said obviously an XW30 and an XW40.

 

However, with the world as it is, in marked decline, I would suggest a Pan 41.  That is a very fine piece of glass and probably the best full-field option out there.  Maybe see if Markus has any more of them thar Leitz 88s.  I like mine, and it's kind of old and clunky.

 

Greg N



#13 Traveler

Traveler

    Mercury-Atlas

  • *****
  • Posts: 2745
  • Joined: 19 Aug 2007
  • Loc: The Netherlands

Posted 15 March 2019 - 12:05 AM

When i had to choose a light/minimalist EP-set for the stow i choose (just) two EP's:

 

- a 40mm König (or clone) as a finder ep and ultrawide views.

- Next ep would be the Baader Zoom (24-8mm) with the Baader zoom barlow.  



#14 gnowellsct

gnowellsct

    Voyager 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 14113
  • Joined: 24 Jun 2009

Posted 15 March 2019 - 06:54 AM

It's nice to see a thread about AP scopes that actually exist as opposed to THE LIST.
  • peleuba and kkt like this

#15 peleuba

peleuba

    Apollo

  • *****
  • Posts: 1418
  • Joined: 01 Dec 2004
  • Loc: North of Baltimore, MD

Posted 15 March 2019 - 08:24 AM

And downgrade the sharpness of the lens? Pfft...... push it to the limit. Delos and Ethos all the way.

 

You are not giving up ANY sharpness when slumming with a NT6 or a Delite.  There may be reasons to choose large, heavy eyepieces like Ethos/Delos, but sharpness is not one of them when compared to the two lines I mentioned.

 

All IMO, of course.


  • Joe Bergeron likes this

#16 peleuba

peleuba

    Apollo

  • *****
  • Posts: 1418
  • Joined: 01 Dec 2004
  • Loc: North of Baltimore, MD

Posted 15 March 2019 - 08:29 AM

 THE LIST.

 

Please stop mentioning the THE LIST, while I am still on THE LIST.


  • jay.i likes this

#17 jay.i

jay.i

    Vanguard

  • *****
  • Posts: 2409
  • Joined: 11 Jun 2017
  • Loc: Minneapolis, MN

Posted 15 March 2019 - 08:41 AM

You are not giving up ANY sharpness when slumming with a NT6 or a Delite.  There may be reasons to choose large, heavy eyepieces like Ethos/Delos, but sharpness is not one of them when compared to the two lines I mentioned.

 

All IMO, of course.

I thought it was widely accepted that the T6 Naglers are nothing special for sharpness, as it was one of the compromises made to provide an 82deg field in such a small form factor. I personally observed middling sharpness from mine but that was a while back. The DeLites are like mini Delos so I agree with you there, and so far I've not had any reason to believe they fall behind.



#18 peleuba

peleuba

    Apollo

  • *****
  • Posts: 1418
  • Joined: 01 Dec 2004
  • Loc: North of Baltimore, MD

Posted 15 March 2019 - 09:15 AM

I thought it was widely accepted that the T6 Naglers are nothing special for sharpness, as it was one of the compromises made to provide an 82deg field in such a small form factor.

 

See - this is where eyepiece discussions can get squirrely.  What I like may not be what you like.

 

  I have used the NT6's in a Portaball-8 and small refractors for a very long time.  They've, essentially, been my daily dirvers for years.  When I am star testing on the bench, the NT6 is the eyepiece I use most often.  It controls aberrations extremely well and is sufficiently sharp for my needs.  The 13mm NT6 is my all-time favorite eyepiece.  I think you would have to go to a the AP-SPL, Zeiss Abbe, or maybe a TMB Mono to get something appreciably sharper.  

 

The NT6's just "feel" right in small APO's.  I have not used my set of Delites long enough but plan to use them exclusively in the PB-8 this Summer.  So far I really like them and believe they will be a great fit for the Stow

 

I use my set of Delos in my StarMaster Dob and they kick major tush.  So much so that I hardly ever use my 2" eyepieces.



#19 jay.i

jay.i

    Vanguard

  • *****
  • Posts: 2409
  • Joined: 11 Jun 2017
  • Loc: Minneapolis, MN

Posted 15 March 2019 - 10:44 AM

See - this is where eyepiece discussions can get squirrely.  What I like may not be what you like.

 

  I have used the NT6's in a Portaball-8 and small refractors for a very long time.  They've, essentially, been my daily dirvers for years.  When I am star testing on the bench, the NT6 is the eyepiece I use most often.  It controls aberrations extremely well and is sufficiently sharp for my needs.  The 13mm NT6 is my all-time favorite eyepiece.  I think you would have to go to a the AP-SPL, Zeiss Abbe, or maybe a TMB Mono to get something appreciably sharper.  

 

The NT6's just "feel" right in small APO's.  I have not used my set of Delites long enough but plan to use them exclusively in the PB-8 this Summer.  So far I really like them and believe they will be a great fit for the Stow

 

I use my set of Delos in my StarMaster Dob and they kick major tush.  So much so that I hardly ever use my 2" eyepieces.

I can't argue with your experience. I have heard very good things about the 13T6. My experience was only with the 7 and the 9. I don't really wanna buy some to try again, but, now I kinda do... dang it Paul. I will say that my Ethos have been nothing but good to me, truly, in every scenario. Combined with a 2X Powermate, the 8 and 6 have proven to be excellent planetary eyepieces. I did not notice any degradation of image quality - if it was there, it was so minor that the difference was imperceptible. Then again I didn't have a 4mm or 3mm Ethos (don't exist) to compare with, so I couldn't do a side by side comparison. I suspect I would have still found basically no difference, with the only differences coming from, POSSIBLY, slightly increased scatter or reduced contrast due to reflections or a shiny barrel. I didn't do rigorous enough testing to really say, but I found absolutely nothing objectionable about the views with the 2XPM. Never mind that it makes for a back heavy scope, but I've accepted that and all of my short refractors have had no issues balancing as long as I rotated them in the rings to clear the focuser knob from the saddle.



#20 jay.i

jay.i

    Vanguard

  • *****
  • Posts: 2409
  • Joined: 11 Jun 2017
  • Loc: Minneapolis, MN

Posted 15 March 2019 - 10:48 AM

Bringing it back to the Stowaway... it's not a lightweight scope, and like I said, a few extra pounds ain't gon' kill ya. If you (the proverbial you) get along just fine with T6s and Panoptics, by all means, use 'em! But if you really want a couple eyepieces to push the Stowaway optics to the limit, I would go for something even more premium like a few Ethos, maybe Delos (is it more premium? idk), maybe a ZAO. It's not really a planetary scope so pairing a $600-800 ortho with it, if you don't already have one and don't have a use for a given FL in your other scopes, might not be the best way to spend that cash. I'd easily point towards a 21Ethos for the same cost. If I get a Stowaway the 21E will be the first eyepiece I use, you can bet on that.

 

I'll just throw some eyepieces out there that I would wanna use with a Stowaway, and for what. Note that the list miiiiight be pretty close to my current eyepiece list, for reasons!

 

31T5: Quick story. Last July I had my FC-76DC and TMB105 out at my club's Bortle ~3.5 site. It was the only night I got out there last year. I had the 31T5 in the Tak and the 13E in the TMB105. At one point I decided hey, how have I not looked at the Double Cluster yet? I plugged it into the hand controller and slewed right over. As it got closer and closer to the horizon I thought, ohhhhh boy this is gonna be close! There is a very small grove of trees near the observing field, sort of in a line, that block a lot of the nearby farm road, basically running west to east. The slewing came to a stop right as the scopes started pointing at the treeline. I thought for sure it was going to be too low with the trees blocking the view. I'll have to come back later, I thought, but let's take a look anyway. I put my eye up to the 18x/4.5deg view of the 31T5 in the little Tak, and gasped. What I saw, almost filling my vision, was the Double Cluster rising up over the treeline, clearing it by no more than a degree or two. It was like a photo with the trees laid over the beautiful night sky. The juxtaposition of Earth and sky moved me in a way I still find hard to describe. It was such a special moment that I honestly forgot to ask others (who were busy with their own scopes, I'll say) if they wanted to see. I will never forget that image. It captured so beautifully the essence of our place in an endless universe. It is because of this experience that I firmly believe that 18-20x is not too little magnification, and that such moments are worth having an eyepiece capable of delivering them. Maybe you get a 30mm ES82 instead for half the price. While a novel and rare experience that I will probably never be able to replicate, the ultra wide field beautifully framed many large objects among vast star fields that night, and the only two eyepieces I used in the little Tak were the 31T5 and 21E, because of their ability to show so much context.

 

21Ethos: Super sharp, very well corrected. Absolutely fantastic for terrestrial views! Frames larger DSOs like the Double Cluster, M8, M16, and M42 very nicely. The context it provides is something I really enjoy. Combined with a UHC/OIII filter, it's still got plenty of brightness to make nebulae really pop. The Veil Nebula/Cygnus Loop area looks fantastic with a UHC filter with this eyepiece.

 

13Ethos: Providing a 2mm exit pupil almost on the dot, with the Stowaway, at 47x, this is an almost perfect eyepiece for I would say most DSOs (though maybe you'd want just a little more magnification in a true all-rounder). The 2mm exit pupil is right about the optimal spot for brightness and visual acuity, and the 13E is a fantastically sharp eyepiece to boot. I'd reckon you could do a Messier marathon with just the 13E (OK, maybe you'd need a little more mag for a few objects!). This would be my workhorse for all DSO viewing for sure.

 

10Ethos: This is one I don't have, but it would provide 61x magnification, which might be just a tad more ideal for a DSO all-rounder. I have read it is even sharper than the 13E, and the 1.5mm exit pupil should still be plenty bright enough to give stars some real pop. This might be a better jump from the 21E than the 13E in terms of sensible mag/exit pupil staggering.

 

6Delos: This is what I would replace my 6Ethos with, if I had to. It still frames the entire moon in the FOV and costs half as much, with just as much sharpness. At 102x and just under a 1mm exit pupil, this would probably be most people's choice for a lunar workhorse. There is enough brightness for features to really pop, while still having enough magnification to study some features in depth. Sure, you won't be counting Plato craterlets with it, but you probably knew that already. This would also be excellent for planetary nebulae and some galaxies, though a lot of PNs could take more magnification from what I understand.

 

4.5Delos/4.7Ethos: Hard to choose one here because it depends what you want to do, look at PNs/galaxies or study planets and the moon, at ~130x. The wide field of the Ethos provides amazing peripheral context, and I absolutely love the feeling of the moon filling my vision. I don't look too close to the edges; I move the scope for that. Just the context the 100deg AFOV provides is intoxicating. For PNs and galaxies, you might not need/want as much FOV, so you could "step down" to the Delos. Clusters might become a little dim by this point, and I prefer them to dazzle me, so I like more brightness.

 

3.5Delos/3.7Ethos: At ~165x and ~0.5mm exit pupil, these would come out during good seeing for planetary and lunar observing. Much of the lunar surface can be studied in great detail around this magnification (for a small refractor, don't compare it to a C14!) and I can't imagine wanting more features to study, for years, at this magnification. The moon almost fills the entire Ethos FOV at this magnification - what a treat.

 

3DeLite: For really good seeing, you'll totally wanna push magnification on the moon. Planets will be pretty dim at 0.45mm exit pupil, but without a doubt, the Stowaway should have no trouble handling a measly 204x.

 

Wildcard- 2X Powermate: You can do a lot with this, and in my experience, it does not reduce sharpness or increase scatter in a noticeable way. I have nothing but good things to say about it.

 

If I had to pick 3? Argh, I can't pick 3! I'll pick 4. 30ES82 + 21E + 13E + 6Delos. You've got the uber-context masters in the 30ES82 and 21E, the perfect terrestrial eyepiece and low mag king in the 21E, the DSO all-rounder (and amazing terrestrial eyepiece) in the 13E, and the high-ish-mag all-rounder for PNs, clusters, galaxies, the moon, and planets in the 6Delos.

 

If you get a 2X Powermate, though, then I'd swap the 6Delos for an 8Ethos/8Delos, since you can get 6.5mm from the 13E and then 4mm from the 8E/8D. With that, you'd have 30mm, 21mm, 13mm, 8mm, 6.5mm, and 4mm. I think that's a pretty darn solid range. In fact, this would truly be my pick for 4 eyepieces (plus the 2XPM, hey it's not an eyepiece so it doesn't count!).

 

I know it might sound like I've been drinking the TeleVue kool-aid, but I have been consistently impressed with the Ethos (and Delos) line of eyepieces, and I don't hesitate to recommend them to anyone willing to risk their wallet once they see just how good they really are. One look through the 13E was all it took for me... now I've got 4 of those suckers.

 

I should probably go do some work or something. smile.gif I hope this helps!!


Edited by jay.i, 15 March 2019 - 10:56 AM.


#21 ron scarboro

ron scarboro

    Ranger 4

  • *****
  • Posts: 353
  • Joined: 03 Jan 2016
  • Loc: Raleigh, NC

Posted 15 March 2019 - 03:35 PM

My experience with Naglers is different than yours.  

 

If ultimate sharpness is what you’re after, then fewer elements in the eypiece is the game (read Orthos).

If a super wide field that is flat is your game, then lots of elements sacrificing some sharpness is in order.

 

I’ve always thought the Naglers were an excellent workhorse eypiece that get you great sharpness but compromise the field to not have too many elements.  

 

In 99% of circumstances the sky will give up long before the difference between a Nagler and an Ethos can be discerned.  In the other 1% of the time, bring a bigger scope.



#22 George9

George9

    Apollo

  • *****
  • Posts: 1420
  • Joined: 11 Dec 2004

Posted 15 March 2019 - 08:38 PM

For my Stowaway, when I am willing to carry another case, I bring the following:

 

31 Nagler 5

21 Ethos

13 Ethos

8 Ethos

6 Delos

4.5 Delos

3.5 Delos

 

As noted in another thread, the 31 has a flat field in the Stowaway but the 21 shows minor curvature. I suspect the Stowaway and 21 are both curved in the same direction, whereas the Stowaway and 31 in the opposite. I still like the 21 view though.

 

In the Stowaway Pelican case, I bring:

 

31 N5

8 Ethos

3.5 Delos

 

With the Stowaway in a Pronto soft case, I bring:

 

33 SWAN

9 Nagler 1

3.5 Nagler 6

 

George


  • jay.i likes this

#23 gnowellsct

gnowellsct

    Voyager 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 14113
  • Joined: 24 Jun 2009

Posted 15 March 2019 - 10:27 PM

Well I've been enjoying all afternoon and this evening my 92mm (not a Stowaway) with the same glass I always use in my scopes.  I'm not sure it needs a special set.  The only thing that I think one should really have, is a 40ish and 30ish wide field, 68 to 70 degrees or more.  If you don't have this, it's unclear why you'd want an f/6.65 92mm scope, UNLESS your main thing is imaging and you just want a few eyepieces around for whenever.  

 

I can't imagine limiting a scope like this to 45 ish degree plossls and orthos.  I know there is a certain refractor ethos of old school eyepiece glass and the purity of the reflector. But I'm having a grand old time with the XWs.

 

Looking at the sword of Orion through a winter tree was kind of poetic.  Terrible for the image quality of the Orion Nebula but you're zoomed in on the area around the Sword and you can see the nebula there.   And the tree looks like winter and it's still cold out, so there is a poetry in the moment.

 

I hope you find the eyepieces that deliver that...or something like that!  You've paid a lot for that Stowaway.  Pan 35, Pan 41.  I think mainly the Pan 41 for ultra low power wide views.  

 

regards

 

Greg N


  • jay.i likes this

#24 DocGP

DocGP

    Sputnik

  • -----
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 25
  • Joined: 14 Sep 2007

Posted Today, 08:34 AM

Thanks for the input, gives me a lot to think about.

Doc




CNers have asked about a donation box for Cloudy Nights over the years, so here you go. Donation is not required by any means, so please enjoy your stay.


Recent Topics






Cloudy Nights LLC
Cloudy Nights Sponsor: Astronomics